General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsArpaio's pardon was the canary in the coal mine. It was the legal test missile.
Rethugs barely noticed. Drumpt may not care if state charges can be preferred against Flynn.
Pardons are coming. Himself included.
tparrett62
(268 posts)Seth Abramson, on his excellent Twitter thread today, posited that Mueller may have charged Flynn with a small (?!) charge initially, and may be open to charging Flynn with subsequent offences in the event that Trump does indeed move to pardon Mueller.
Pathwalker
(6,600 posts)typo?
Quemado
(1,262 posts)See this post:
[link:https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10029873432|
rock
(13,218 posts)So who would do that? VP Mike Pence, after he takes over? Why would he? Sure, he might say he will, but will he?
irisblue
(33,037 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)The American system of law does NOT allow one to stand in judgement of oneself (it's an ironclad principle). Only Dictators have such powers and our Democracy won't allow it.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)like the carcass of a rotting badger, and a whole slew of folk would notice the stench
Trying to pardon himself would be even worse: a pardon must be accepted to have force, so his lawyers might be forced to plead in court that yes, he admitted violating the law but had placed himself beyond its reach with his self-pardon
That wouldn't smell like one dead badger: it would smell like a whole dead zoo -- and however the courts handle it, the political consequences would be like one of those gifts that keeps giving and giving and giving
kairos12
(12,882 posts)SCOTUS (5-4) splits coming, and the fact that Rethugs would prefer a rotten badger to any type of win for a Democrat I'm not sure Drumpt wouldn't get away the pardon.
Vinca
(50,318 posts)of them, including Don. Whether it's a federal felony or a state felony you still end up in the big house.
Volaris
(10,275 posts)Has a sealed indictment with Trump's name on it. IF that sealed indictment has a conspiracy charge inside it as well, trump won't be legally allowed to pardon so much as his wife's Christmas decorations.
If he tries, Mueller will unsealed that fucker to PROVE the conspiracy, and cut Trump's (and everyone elses) legs out from under him. EVERYONE will roll, and Donald Trump will go to prison.
Melania will take ALL his money, and he will die, broke, inside a federal penitentiary.
kairos12
(12,882 posts)whether you can indict a sitting President. Impeachment exists because of this problem.
Volaris
(10,275 posts)But the conspiracy charge (if it exists, and as far as I can recall being informed) nullifies presidential pardon power (this is what has been suggested, the SCourt has never had to actually rule on such a case, because Nixon was smart enough to resign).
Even if it doesn't, an accepting of such pardon invalidates any 5th amendment rights of the guilty (because admission of guilt is part and parcel to needing the Pardon in the first place) and so any State or other Federal charges would then REQUIRE testimony against the President for any crimes HE comitted.
Donald Trump is going to prison.