General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCalculating
(2,955 posts)Surely almost nobody can be so stupid unless they have legit mental problems. I'm starting to think the whole movement is just made up of a bunch trolls like those Satanist groups trying to put up demon statues in public.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)There are people who don't believe in evolution, climate change, or the need for vaccinations.
There are people who believe in exorcism as a way to "cure" mental illness.
There are people who...no, I'm not going to get into the religious stuff, or this post would never end.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)It's not like you can literally SEE the proof in many of those cases. Many leave room for argument or alternative thought. You can LITERALLY see that the Earth isn't flat. If it WAS, you would be able to drive or fly off the edge of it. Claiming the Earth is flat is about as ridiculous as claiming that gravity doesn't exist. It's attempting to argue against easily observable facts. It's not like Climate change where there's wiggle room to argue about the models not turning out right, or that climate change happened in the past so it must be unrelated to our activity. Religious things cannot be proven or disproven at all so they aren't even comparable.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)(and yes, those people exist, and in droves) they can't make the connection between gravity and the roundness of the Earth. They see, with their own eyes, the flatness of the fruited plains and their "common sense" tells them that the earth is flat, otherwise they'd roll right off of it.
To study the anti-science people in their natural habitat, observe the Religious Right.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Evolution? We have something called DNA, we know that humans are closely related to chimpanzees, bonobos, and Neanderthals in such a way that indicates a common ancestor (more recent for Neanderthals than chimps/bonobos). We have records of atmospheric CO2 going back nearly sixty years, and global temperature averages, polar ice measurements, etc. The atmospheric CO2 keeps going up, average temperature keeps going up, sea ice density keeps going down, so we know that increased atmospheric CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) are driving observed climate change. Vaccines? We know they work. (look at the differences in infant mortality between say 1900, and now. And when's the last time you heard of a polio epidemic in the USA?). People being ignorant doesn't mean you can't see the proof, because it's there.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)if you have had kittens or puppies that are muts evolution is written all over them.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Flat earth is.. simple..
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)having fun with it.
I'm not so sure today.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)IIRC, one online flat earth org started as a subtle joke, a social satire, and was eventually overcome by ACTUAL flat earthers.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)It is amazing how many people believe super insane nonsense.
alittlelark
(18,888 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)There is mental illness in my family and it's a constant stress.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)The Bible says the earth is flat and the universe is geocentric (or at least suggests it)? Then by God the Earth is flat and the sun moves around us. A test for the truly faithful or some shit. Of course literalists always seem to be incredibly selective about whats literal and whats figurative, making the Bible an interesting tool for them. Kind of like a combination carpenters hammer/psychiatric diagnostic tool. They can build their world uniquely while we get amazing insights.
All religion sounds insane to me, however. Im not sure how Christians feel so confident dismissing the Alien Lizard People as lunatics, but are happy to accept talking serpents and virgin births and sacrificial demigods. However, to 90% of the most devout Christians I know, it sounds crazy to them sometimes, too. My wife, for instance, is a devout Christian, but would be first in line to admit it all sounds silly sometimes. Whatever. Doesnt hurt me and makes her happy.
The related but different subset is the Conspiracy Theorists. Some of them are quite bright and often well educated. But they like, more than anything else, to have secret knowledge that the rest of the world doesnt see. It makes them superior, much the same way that religious nut jobs usually love feeling simultaneously oppressed and superior to their peers.
Then theres the clearly insane ones, like that rocket guy who wants to get all the way to 1500 feet to prove the earth is flat. Second attempt after massive injuries the first time. Apparently hadnt thought to put a camera in a model rocket (complicated, but simpler than building a people-rocket), nor to put gas in his truck and drive to one of the many fine mountains in his area, all of which are higher than 1500 feet.
So far Ive resisted making fun of him.
I feel sad for him. No one loves him enough or even cares enough to stop him. Hes clearly a threat to himself, if not others, and is clearly not thinking clearly. Or at least, in the categories of cares and not stupid enough to think the world is flat and/or batshit crazy, theres no one who falls in the middle of the Venn diagram.
Girard442
(6,063 posts)Hekate
(90,523 posts)I think people not involved in mathematics just believed the evidence of their eyes and "common sense."
Two cultures that did go in for math and geometry in a big way were the Greeks and the Egyptians, but they had a tiny leisure class that could spend time thinking about it and a larger professional class that could put it to practical use. Columbus didn't "discover" the shape of the Earth, he just used the knowledge as a mariner.
Most people throughout history were just busy getting on with their lives herding sheep and farming small plots with their own manual labor. They didn't have time for much speculation. The Earth looked "flat" (with mountains), so why waste time arguing about it?
Elaborate Christian theology arose in Medieval times, and cast a long shadow having as much to do with politics and power as anything else. American "evangelical" religion is a case by itself -- adherents tend to be ignorant of anything a European Christian would recognize as actual theology.
Since the Enlightenment, I think Western cultures have counted on public education to build on whatever scientific advances had happened and were happening. You didn't have to be an elite at the pinnacle of education to be taught the basics, and if the culture around you trusted in the basics -- well you get the point.
Current American education and current American popular culture have proven how fragile that can actually be, and how fragile democracy can be.
But back to my original point -- it's been some years since I sat down to read the Bible, but I don't recall the shape of the Earth being actually discussed therein. People tend to project, and tend to interpret.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Probably extrapolated from a similar Egyptian worldview. Essentially, the people in the neighborhood of the eastern Mediterranean including Hebrews, early Greeks, Canaanites, etc believed the Earth was big and flat. Outside of the earth the universe was filled with fire, and separating us from the fires of chaos was a bronze dome. The stars are tiny holes that allow a little peek through the dome, and is blocked by the sun chariot during the day. Geb And Nut in Egypt, Gaea and Ouranos in Greece evolved their stories from this, the Hebrews eventually dropped it all together.
But all these things evolved and mixed over thousands of years, and at one pre-Biblical point they really DID believe it.
Artifacts of this prehistoric paradigm pop up here and there in the Bible. The four corners of the earth are mentioned twice. Most of us take that to be figurative, but some literalists take that to mean the earth is flat because how does a sphere have corners? And how does God stop the sun for Joshua if its not the sun moving but the earth?
Theres a couple of other hints of a flat earth that I cant remember off hand. Theres also unicorns and zombies, too. Its best not to treat it as a science textbook.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Everybody knew it was a sphere, but Columbus said it was smaller than the known size, which Aristarchus had measured 1500 years before him. He did that to sell the idea that India was a short trip.
It's suspected that he knew damned well the real size, but had knowledge of the New World, based on the Vikings, Sir Henry Sinclair (Templars) etc. The "Small Earth" theory may have been a total ruse.
Hop David
(26 posts)Saying outrageous dumb stuff is a great way to get free publicity.
Who had heard of B.o.B. before Tyson made him Famous? Neil increased his recognition 10-fold.
Tyson's policy of feeding the trolls has energized this wacky movement.
procon
(15,805 posts)kpete
(71,957 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,562 posts)Nitram
(22,755 posts)The Moon is flat, too. The two discs are clearly parallel. Duh.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I can only assume that he had just read some Trump tweet and was completely rattled.
sakabatou
(42,134 posts)central scrutinizer
(11,635 posts)But the flat part faces the moon, not the edge. It's like holding a quarter up and blocking the moon.
caraher
(6,278 posts)I've had too many obviously fruitless arguments with True Believers
Bucky
(53,928 posts)That's literally why they call it a quarter moon
To hear these Roundy extremists talk, you'd think the moon would look like a 25% pie chart. I expect that to be the next NASA Photoshop fake fakery
skypilot
(8,851 posts)Does gravity work sideways too?
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)photograph the edge.
Bucky
(53,928 posts)Where is the turtle's shadow? Where are the elephants'?
Come up with some new photo shops, you Roundy propagandists!!
blogslut
(37,981 posts)Berilia, Tubul, Great T'Phon, and Jerakeen.
Hekate
(90,523 posts)Thank you!
demmiblue
(36,812 posts)Oneironaut
(5,479 posts)Alex Joness opinion on science is treated as equal to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Trumps opinion is treated equally to climate scientists. Why are you ignoring alternate opinions they screech if you try to explain how a scientists word should be given more weight.
Its like we dont care about experience, education, or knowledge anymore. High School dropout Jimmys opinion on how electricity is actually God shooting energy through the wires is said to deserve as much thought as an actual scientist.
I dont care what Trump, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, etc. have to say about climate change any more than I care what Flat Earthers say about the earths shape. They both purposely ignore information, attack anyone who tries to inform them, and demand that their uninformed opinion be given equal attention (if not all the attention).
Girard442
(6,063 posts)...talking to my friend in California where it's 3:30 p.m. PST and the sun is shining -- who's managing that part of the conspiracy? I mean, that's pretty impressive, don't you think?
whopis01
(3,491 posts)Girard442
(6,063 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,250 posts)Don't get me wrong, the tweet is great, but it's a real problem when one of the world's preeminent astro-physicists is taking time out of his day to debunk something that was originally debunked 400 years ago.