Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MelissaB

(16,420 posts)
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:05 PM Nov 2017

Richard Painter on Al Franken: We need more facts but much of this fits an old GOP playbook

Richard Painter: We need more facts but much of this fits an old GOP playbook
The article attached is not written by Painter.


Al Franken: The Obvious Setup and Liberals Took the Bait

With all of the sleazy, disgusting and lurid sexual problems that seem to be a part of the Republican official’s way of life, it was only a matter of time before there was a lash back against a Democrat. This is not to say that there aren’t any liberals that are never part of this mix, it’s just that the overtly religious doctrine that conservatives follow does lend to repressed sexual conditions.

So in scanning any Democrat that maintained both logic and a powerful presence as well as one that is knee-deep in calling out those Republicans involved in lying and RussiaGate, there was one name that is both popular and had the potential to be taken down: Al Franken. And so, a woman named Leeann Tweeden has come forward to accuse Al Franken of sexual assault during a USO tour in which they performed together in Afghanistan in 2006. Conservatives know the liberal market and also understand that if they throw out a piece of red meat that accuses a well-respected Democrat of having bad behavior, liberals will climb all over each other to rip him or her apart; and that is exactly what happened as many liberals called for Franken to step down, refused to believe or look at any of the logic behind the accusation and proceeded to argue with each other under the defense that “we are better than them”.

Everyone is familiar with Franken’s background as a comedian and his celebrity on the comedy show Saturday Night Live. Having attended many shows at the Los Angeles famed “Comedy Store” in the 80’s, I am also well-aware that the skits that were performed away from the camera were often saucy and bawdy. This made Franken’s past a hot potential to find at least one or two questionable situations and when you added in his work with the USO tours, it was a formula for success for conservatives.

... snip

But as a drooling media grabs onto this accusatory story and runs with it in their typical non-journalistic way to get improved ratings, they are missing some very important pieces of the puzzle. Examining Franken’s history and combining it with Tweeden’s, there is a very strong smell of a rat, and the “rat” has the name of Fox and conservatives all over it.

More: https://democracyguardian.com/al-franken-the-obvious-setup-and-liberals-took-the-bait-5f3515d379a0
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Richard Painter on Al Franken: We need more facts but much of this fits an old GOP playbook (Original Post) MelissaB Nov 2017 OP
We always take the bait. We liberals are so determined to prove The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #1
+1 dalton99a Nov 2017 #2
Yep. Spot on. n/t GoCubsGo Nov 2017 #9
Amen! Stinky The Clown Nov 2017 #12
We need to bring cannons to GOP wars. democratisphere Nov 2017 #24
Agree mountain grammy Nov 2017 #32
This has annoyed me for a long time. Why can't WE fight dirty? calimary Nov 2017 #34
At a minimum we should bring guns to gunfights The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #37
Especially when Pelosi says no impeachment. Didn't do it last time and they have gotten Hestia Nov 2017 #40
Oh Dear God that was crushing. calimary Nov 2017 #49
What bait did we take? FakeNoose Nov 2017 #38
There have been a bunch of op-eds in various publications about how he should resign The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #39
Sure but those have been written by right-wingers FakeNoose Nov 2017 #45
A poll showed that 50% want him to resign LiberalLovinLug Nov 2017 #68
That's absurd.....resign for something relatively minor..... ollie10 Nov 2017 #70
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2017 #78
The very first day a lot of people were saying that he shouldn't have taken the pic at the USO Hestia Nov 2017 #44
Well kind of because we ARE better jimlup Nov 2017 #47
As if we can't criticize a grown man going after teenage girls JI7 Nov 2017 #53
Yes! Ferrets are Cool Nov 2017 #69
I sure didn't take the bait. Made sure to respond to any Liberals I happened to notice online today BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2017 #72
And that needs to stop. Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2017 #73
yep, the altar of perfect purity nt steve2470 Nov 2017 #74
I think thats because of how the media rainy Nov 2017 #76
+1000000000 treestar Nov 2017 #79
The most troubling aspect is the last two accusers identify as liberal feminists which lends still_one Nov 2017 #3
Correction: They identify as anonymous. nt BootinUp Nov 2017 #5
Yep. When you wish to remain anonymous, luvtheGWN Nov 2017 #7
"When you wish to remain anonymous. LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #50
ANONYMOUS liberal feminists eissa Nov 2017 #6
Bingo pandr32 Nov 2017 #16
I also have a tough time picturing someone who identifies as a feminist, that if someone grabs their still_one Nov 2017 #19
I believe that Al's BlueMTexpat Nov 2017 #75
They also claim to not know each other... usaf-vet Nov 2017 #21
How can they claim not to know each other.... rlegro Nov 2017 #80
The anonymous claims of being "liberal" or "a Democrat" are out of their playbook, as well. GoCubsGo Nov 2017 #14
Your observation is absolutely spot on that one still_one Nov 2017 #20
Exactly Farmer-Rick Nov 2017 #33
I am not going to go there yet, but anonymous definitely makes it suspect still_one Nov 2017 #35
Welcome to DU, Farmer-Rick! calimary Nov 2017 #66
And Mike Flynn is a democrat JI7 Nov 2017 #54
Hey, I "identify" as a tall, slender, fiery redhead in my early 30s... Hekate Nov 2017 #62
This is EXACLTY what I'm thinking nini Nov 2017 #4
GOP sympathizers also stoking the flames. Kingofalldems Nov 2017 #8
Dead on. Just look above -- KPN Nov 2017 #10
I'm applying the same standard as I did when this place was up in arms about Tweeden. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #11
Exactly. And more: Kremlin fueled this "scandal" american_ideals Nov 2017 #13
Of course it is a right wing hit job w/help from the Russians Botany Nov 2017 #15
The trolls have promised more allegations... Thor_MN Nov 2017 #17
Well written, thought provoking article. Thanks for posting. Arkansas Granny Nov 2017 #18
With all the people around you'd expect someone to come forward... Historic NY Nov 2017 #22
tweeden " I told a few of the others on the tour what Franken had done and they knew how I felt" blimablam Nov 2017 #41
We need to learn how to handle these situations better...without being trolled radhika Nov 2017 #23
Great write up cubbies01 Nov 2017 #25
Welcome to DU, cubbies01! MelissaB Nov 2017 #28
Thanks cubbies01 Nov 2017 #36
Deplorables aren't the only ones easily distracted. Jakes Progress Nov 2017 #26
having a hard time understanding how a state fair, surrounded by hundreds of people with cameras greenman3610 Nov 2017 #27
Guess what Polly Hennessey Nov 2017 #29
He really hates Trump and what has happened to the GOP FakeNoose Nov 2017 #43
Damn right. cwydro Nov 2017 #30
With Hannity's friend as accusser and Roger Stone involved, what else could we expect. L. Coyote Nov 2017 #31
Quit clinging to the increasingly futile hope that Franken didn't do this mythology Nov 2017 #42
I'm sorry PatSeg Nov 2017 #51
Wow. cwydro Nov 2017 #52
Quit clinging to convicting people with scant evidence and jumping to conclusions. LBM20 Nov 2017 #55
youre wrong tapermaker Nov 2017 #60
On another thread earlier, you accused me Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #67
Sure jl_theprofessor Nov 2017 #77
I'm thankful for Richard Painter! Lifelong Protester Nov 2017 #46
From Nixon to Trump, the Long, Shady Career of Roger Stone Historic NY Nov 2017 #48
Du vs the Trolls - The Treasure of DU! bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #56
Inclined to agree with Mr. Painter. moondust Nov 2017 #57
marie01 marieo1 Nov 2017 #58
Doesn't make sense Bungalowgal Nov 2017 #59
When are we ever going to learn? Painter is absolutely right: Dems are being ratfckd--again. Hekate Nov 2017 #61
Very good analysis Perseus Nov 2017 #63
All In ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #64
Anyone remember Pelosi knew? McCamy Taylor Nov 2017 #65
I've only been on DU for less than a year FakeNoose Nov 2017 #71

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,610 posts)
1. We always take the bait. We liberals are so determined to prove
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:20 PM
Nov 2017

that we are "better than they are" that we're willing to sacrifice one of the strongest liberals in the Senate on that altar. Not only do we take knives to gunfights, we even give them our knives.

calimary

(81,125 posts)
34. This has annoyed me for a long time. Why can't WE fight dirty?
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:06 PM
Nov 2017

That's the way the game is played. That's how the bad guys win. They cheat like hell, at the state level and nationally, and they win. And they get away with it. And nothing is done. And nobody pays the price except for all of America under their thumb with their lousy ideas, their 6th century collective mindset, their shitty Reverse-Robin Hood policies of selfishness, short-sightedness, and abject cruelty, and their cockeyed totally out-to-lunch "alternative facts".

I want us to have our own Roger Stone and our own kkkarl rove and our own Lee Atwater and our own Frank Luntz and our own dirty tricksters. I want us to do some rat-fucking on the bad guys.

I'm sick of taking the high road. In THIS day and age, the high road leads you straight over a cliff.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,610 posts)
37. At a minimum we should bring guns to gunfights
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:13 PM
Nov 2017

instead of relying on our glorious righteousness and sense of fair play, which these days along with $2.50 will buy you a small frappucino at Startbucks. I hate it that this is true, but it is. It would be great if everybody played by the rules (I'm not sure they ever really did, but it's worse than ever now). But the GOP doesn't. They lie, cheat and steal and now they're not even trying to hide it. They're like, "Ha ha, liberals, look at what we're doing! We're gutting consumer protection, raping the environment, taxing the poor, and fuck you because you're too nice to stop us."

There are a few fighters on our side, and Al Franken is one of them, but he patted somebody's butt and acted like a dumb frat boy during a bawdy USO show and now he's not pure enough for us, so we'll run over him with our Big Bus of Righteousness and let the GOP have all the child molesters and grifters and white supremacists they want. But we'll feel good about ourselves.

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
40. Especially when Pelosi says no impeachment. Didn't do it last time and they have gotten
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:20 PM
Nov 2017

worse about their outright chicanery. Children do notice what happens in the news sometimes and seeing us cave in time after time makes them think, well maybe liberals are bad, they do not fight for their principles.

calimary

(81,125 posts)
49. Oh Dear God that was crushing.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:43 PM
Nov 2017

To take impeachment off the table before any such "table" was anywhere in sight, or in mind, even. That was STUPID. Our way seems to be carrot and leave-the-stick-over-there-somewhere-out-of-sight-and-certainly-WAY-out-of-reach.

If the bad guys think (or in our case, KNOW) they'll face no consequences, then what's ever to stop them from continuing to do it?

Your other point is excellent, too. I remember seeing some quickie interview with some republi-CON woman in Congress or some such. And she made the point that "WE FIGHT." I remember thinking - "yeah, there you go again. (Yawn.) ALWAYS fighting. You've always gotta be fighting." But maybe that's the key here. Maybe all those out there in voter land think we have no spine because we always cave, we never resort to fighting. Fighting in our case is last-resort stuff. The opposition? It's first-last-only. They come out of the gate with guns and rockets blazing. We come out of the gate with open arms and empty hands, assuming the other side will "meet us halfway." Well, NOT THIS BUNCH!!! I wonder how long it'll take our side to recognize that. Seems like they STILL don't get it.

Haven't we already given them AMPLE time to "meet us halfway" and otherwise be reasonable? And where's it gotten us? NOWHERE. Except for the "well, we got close!" Getting "close" doesn't make it. You don't get to run the joint, determine the priorities, set the agenda, and force compliance to it - UNLESS YOU WIN. I don't care how "close" the race may have been. If it wasn't a win, it was a whole lotta NOTHING.

If the game is played dirty, and the only way to win is dirty, then if we don't play the game that way, we will never win much, ever again.

FakeNoose

(32,596 posts)
38. What bait did we take?
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:17 PM
Nov 2017

All I'm seeing on DU is complete support for Al Franken.

Anybody on DU who wants Franken to resign should be banned from DU. They don't belong here. We fight for the good guys, and Franken is one of the good guys. It's also an evil & obvious setup by the right-wing idiots like Steve Bannon.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,610 posts)
39. There have been a bunch of op-eds in various publications about how he should resign
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:19 PM
Nov 2017

because somebody needs to set an example, otherwise we liberals are condoning rape and child molestation or something stupid like that. And they have been cited with approval here and there on DU.

FakeNoose

(32,596 posts)
45. Sure but those have been written by right-wingers
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:29 PM
Nov 2017

They were probably already written before the shit hit the fan.
What has Bannon been doing since he left the White House?
Working on this kind of stuff.

"Dirty tricks" meet "obscene campaign contributions."

LiberalLovinLug

(14,165 posts)
68. A poll showed that 50% want him to resign
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 05:34 PM
Nov 2017
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/22/16691512/poll-50-percent-al-franken-resign

Republicans favored Franken’s resignation over Democrats, but not by much: 56 percent to 49 percent. A total of 49 percent of independent voters also thought Franken should resign. Men and women were about equally divided: 51 percent of men thought he should resign, as did 49 percent of women.

Almost as many Democrat voters want him to resign as Republican voters. In fact, from that poll, it looks like 44 % of Republicans don't even think he should resign. But 49% of Democrats do.


Democrat voters take cues from leaders, like Pelosi, Schumer, and others. And when they don't come out in full attack mode against an obvious set up, but instead let it fester in fear of the PC police within their own party, this is what happens.

Van Jones had to resign from Obama's administration because he called Republicans 'assholes'. Pretty much immediately. We don't waste time stumbling over ourselves proving how puritanical we can be. For what? I'll bet if Van Jones had stayed on, in two weeks no one would have even cared. And that was just a 'bad' word. My gawd, anything sexual, even PRETEND sexual like Franken was involved in on the tour, can be used against us to weed out our most productive politicians.

I pray on my knees that Franken holds in there. I know he can weather this especially as more information comes out about these charlatans.
 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
70. That's absurd.....resign for something relatively minor.....
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 07:33 PM
Nov 2017

.....so the ones guilty of much worse are elected Senator and President (and keep their jobs).

This teaches the exact opposite lesson......

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #39)

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
44. The very first day a lot of people were saying that he shouldn't have taken the pic at the USO
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:27 PM
Nov 2017

tour because. (As someone who used to get National Lampoon as a subscription, as a female, I found nothing alarming about the pic, seen much worse in the magazine )

Their responses were right inline as to why comedians no longer college tours any longer - no sense of perspective or a sense of humor on the audience's part. Comedy is supposed to make you uncomfortable, not kill the messenger.

And, yeah, those who wanted to throw him under the bus immediately. It was hard to decide if they were trolls or not, English was spot on.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
47. Well kind of because we ARE better
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:34 PM
Nov 2017

but then we can't relax and par the blows like we could if we didn't panic.

Everybody chill... Franken will survive.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
72. I sure didn't take the bait. Made sure to respond to any Liberals I happened to notice online today
Fri Nov 24, 2017, 01:39 AM
Nov 2017

You just can't stand UNQUESTIONINGLY behind a woman accuser , "no matter who she is"---or no matter how suspicious she and her motives are.

Doing so hurts every sincere woman trying to find Justice for REAL harm done by men (mostly white, but fabulously rich black men benefit too) who have a lonnnnng history of receiving the benefits of The Boys Club Against Women.

rainy

(6,088 posts)
76. I think thats because of how the media
Fri Nov 24, 2017, 06:24 AM
Nov 2017

plays it. The media wants headlines and controversy and the right feeds them the bait. They are good at controlling the narrative because of corporate ownership and control of the media.

The right are the employers of the messengers. That is our problem with messaging.

Liberals get blamed but they fear the media because they own none of the big news corps!

still_one

(92,061 posts)
3. The most troubling aspect is the last two accusers identify as liberal feminists which lends
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:23 PM
Nov 2017

credibility to the accusations, but that they choose to remain anonymous adds a big question mark. While the journalist who reported this is NOT a right wing hack, it remains ambiguous how much we know about these accusers.

It is not unreasonable that people should be skeptical about the first two accusers, especially the second, Munz, who admitted she voted for Trump. After what has happened in 2016, political motivations have to be factored into the credibility.

The last two identify as progressive and feminists, but the want to remain anonymous, and that is an issue

Franken called for an open ethics hearing on himself, but I have my doubts that Congress wants to take that approach because of the bag of worms that would open, and the potential for a snowball effect on other members in that body.

It is to the point that Franken will need to decide if he will come out with his side of the story or not

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
7. Yep. When you wish to remain anonymous,
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:34 PM
Nov 2017

you can claim to be anything you want. And there are enough photos of Leann to prove that what she claims as the truth (and even her own truth) is false.
As Painter (and many others) say, Franken has proved to be the real thorn in the side of the Repubs, so, therefore, they must try to take him down. I'm disgusted with so-called liberal progressives who think he should step down. This "holier-than-thou" crap does not become them.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
50. "When you wish to remain anonymous.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:52 PM
Nov 2017

you can claim to be anything you want."

THAT is the huge problem.

Take the Franken situation off the table. He may or may not be guilty of what he's been accused of. That's why a thorough investigation has to be done.

But, what if you have anonymous people coming forward to accuse you of something (Doesn't have to be a women accusing a man, it could be a man accusing a woman of sexual harassment), and the person being accused says that they didn't do it? How can you defend yourself, gather evidence together when you don't KNOW who your accuser ARE? A person does have a right to defend themselves.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
6. ANONYMOUS liberal feminists
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:32 PM
Nov 2017

That first part is a huge red flag. I’m thinking people didn’t take the bait on the first two because of the obvious partisan hit job, so his detractors are now putting this shit out. It’s going to take more than that to bring Franken down.

still_one

(92,061 posts)
19. I also have a tough time picturing someone who identifies as a feminist, that if someone grabs their
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:16 PM
Nov 2017

ass, doesn't turn around, and confront that person, and tell them to keep their f**king hands to themselves, at a minimum, and at a maximum, slap him right in the kisser

However, I am not going to say that this didn't occur either. If it did, it is inappropriate behavior at a minimum.

As far as I am concerned, if it is true, under no circumstances should Franken consider resigning unless his seat can be guaranteed to be replaced with a Democrat until 2020. I sure don't want him resigning, and a special election being called for his seat.

usaf-vet

(6,163 posts)
21. They also claim to not know each other...
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:28 PM
Nov 2017

.... which is, I assume, meant to mean that makes their story more believable. But why wouldn't we think that they got their story line (script) from the woman from the MN fair "he grab my butt".


I think Franken needs push for a hearing and get all the players in a room testifying under oath. Let's see who lying, telling the truth, and doesn't want to go to jail for lying under oath.

And let's not limit the investigation or the witnesses. Hannity & Roger Stone come to mind.

GoCubsGo

(32,075 posts)
14. The anonymous claims of being "liberal" or "a Democrat" are out of their playbook, as well.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:52 PM
Nov 2017

I hear it all the time, whether I'm listening to Stephanie Miller or Thom Hartmann or any other liberal radio talk show, or watching C-SPAN. Not a week goes by when at least one anonymous person calls in claiming to be a liberal or "a life-long Democrat", and then proceeds to bash liberals or Democrats. They have been doing this for years and years. At some point, one has to start calling bullshit on them. I don't know if these two women are pulling such a stunt, but it's hard not to question it, when it looks like the same-old-same-old.

Farmer-Rick

(10,140 posts)
33. Exactly
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:01 PM
Nov 2017

There are NO liberals who are accusing Franken. He spends most of his life with liberals and now a scaredy cat Anonymous liberal comes out? I really don't believe it.

calimary

(81,125 posts)
66. Welcome to DU, Farmer-Rick!
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 05:11 PM
Nov 2017

And Happy Thanksgiving!

I hesitated when I saw the source for this story. KABC-AM (talk radio station here in L.A. that slants hard right) - which has NEVER been the dateline of ANY news story, EVER. I know because I used to work at their FM sister station which was literally across the hall. We shared the same little newsroom where the teletype machines were. They never broke news, because they never had an emphasis on a big full-service format with a vibrant, well-staffed news department. It was a talk format then and still is, now.

There was a two-host team in the morning, two men. One was a modified yuck-it-up type - who usually handled the kicker stories (lighter people-related news stories that tend to air at the end of the newscast), and his partner was an older man who was the guy who read the headlines at the top and bottom of the hour and any breaking news that might come up. At which time the next guy up would spend his whole time slot talking about whatever breaking news had come up, complete with lots of guests lined up on the phone from all over the nation (and the world), and listener calls, too. TERRIBLE signal strength, and lousy penetration in SoCal, and there were parts of the city of Los Angeles in which you couldn't even hear them! IN L.A.!

One Christmas, I was slated to work on the FM to fill in for one of the Monday-through-Friday people who did news in drivetime. I had the morning shift because the FM news director had Christmas week off. I took in a big platter of chocolate chip cookies I'd made. During a commercial break over on the AM, I went into their control room with the cookies. From the on-air both, they saw me in the control room standing next to the engineer, and motioned for me to come in. Which I did. With the cookies. And they put me on the air to chit-chat for a few minutes, introduced me by name, and as one of the FM folks from across the hall, and immediately started making jokes about my cookies - and what might be cooked into them (since you could regularly smell pot smoke in the hallways because the ventilation system went everywhere).

As it happens, I did NOT bake anything into them. Just to be safe. Besides, I'd only been there a few months. And who knows who would grab a cookie from farther up the hall where the executive-types and sales department and upper management all had their offices.

They weren't as hard-right back then. They slid downward that way over the years. They became the "poor second place" option you might have switched to if the BIG talk station across town, that carried limbaugh, was in a commercial break or something, and they had the ratings to prove it (or lack thereof). And they NEVER made any news or broke any stories or did any special reports or investigative reports or ANYTHING like that. Forty years in the L.A. market, more than half of it on the air, and I NEVER EVER saw KABC-AM step to the front as far as distinguishing itself as having an active, viable news department or break ANY big stories (or small stories, either). They were never the station you'd turn to for breaking news anyway, especially since L.A. for several decades had two VERY viable, very well-established, award-winning all-news AM stations. They didn't even have regular traffic reports except in drivetime.

Hekate

(90,564 posts)
62. Hey, I "identify" as a tall, slender, fiery redhead in my early 30s...
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 04:04 PM
Nov 2017

But that doesn't make it true.

Richard Painter is spot on. We are being ratfcked -- again.

nini

(16,672 posts)
4. This is EXACLTY what I'm thinking
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:25 PM
Nov 2017

Didn't we learn a thing from the 2016 campaign cycle with all this stuff??

Let me add.. I think there have been plants in place for some time. This is a well organizing coup here.

Yep..pass the tin foil.. LOL But something is really off with a lot of stuff going on right now.

This doesn't mean that all women are lying - not at all - but I feel we're in some dangerous territory right now with the opportunity for the other side to make false accusations to take our strongest voice out of the picture.

All accusations need to be addressed but we need to be vigilant to weed out the BS too.

KPN

(15,637 posts)
10. Dead on. Just look above --
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:38 PM
Nov 2017

even when the bait is "anonymous".

Geesh! How about we stop reacting righteously and consider the facts?

Denzil_DC

(7,222 posts)
11. I'm applying the same standard as I did when this place was up in arms about Tweeden.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:40 PM
Nov 2017

And took a lot of stick for it at the time.

There needs to be evidence. Not allegedly anonymous allegations, not a kangaroo court conducted with a great deal of energy by certain posters.

Because that's all there are with the latest batch.

They're not even anonymous allegations at the moment.

They're allegedly anonymous allegations by a reporter associated with HuffPo in a poor piece of journalism.

I'm going to need a bit more than that.

american_ideals

(613 posts)
13. Exactly. And more: Kremlin fueled this "scandal"
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 12:50 PM
Nov 2017




From the Russian Troll monitoring dashboard (run by Clint Watts):
http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

Between November 11 and November 17, we examined 55 articles that were among the top URLs shared by Kremlin-oriented accounts on Twitter. Over 40% of the URLs focused on sexual misconduct allegations; of those URLs, 42% attacked accused Democrats (or those connected to liberal causes), 4% promoted a narrative of a Saudi-linked pedophile ring, and 54% defended Roy Moore.



https://imgur.com/rBEu51V

Botany

(70,447 posts)
15. Of course it is a right wing hit job w/help from the Russians
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:02 PM
Nov 2017

I think it was Daily Kos that pointed out that why was Tweeden wearing a kevler flack
jacket and a helmet on a plane that Tweeden said was flying back to America?

Her ties to Fox news should raise all kinds or warnings too.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
17. The trolls have promised more allegations...
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:14 PM
Nov 2017

Undoubtedly from additional anonymous sources.

After all, Moore and Trump have more than double the accusers, and fully identified ones at that.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
22. With all the people around you'd expect someone to come forward...
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:28 PM
Nov 2017

with a different story. The military escorts assigned to the USO already confirm that it was impossible. Same additional photos she's dry humping Franken and his face is in her cheek.

If I was taking my wife's picture or girlfriends and the guy was goosing her, I'd know immediately she would have reacted. Why would she just stand there. since its not a full picture its impossible for her (them) to claim since no where are the hands or lower half of the body even in the photo. It would be hey a knock it off buddy, watch your hand moment, nothing in the photo even suggests that.

We have nothing more to go on at this time. But expect rat-fucking playbook to be in play. Thery want Franken out, why because he has a bite, Sessions has a big problem with him.

I'll wait but it funny they aren't suing?



blimablam

(121 posts)
41. tweeden " I told a few of the others on the tour what Franken had done and they knew how I felt"
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:22 PM
Nov 2017

so where are they? why havent they come forward? why hasnt she given the press their names?

radhika

(1,008 posts)
23. We need to learn how to handle these situations better...without being trolled
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:29 PM
Nov 2017

Yes, it quite likely is a set-up. And if the tactic works - e.g., by getting out a liberal gadfly - many more will occur.

The right wing never surrenders a spot they occupy on the chess board, they keep every piece in play. They've got a lot of predatory heists planned for the coming year, and Trump needs protections vs Mueller.

Liberals and progressives have to find a way to navigate this mine field without triggered into taking actions that undermine our overall capabilities.

cubbies01

(85 posts)
25. Great write up
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:44 PM
Nov 2017

The witch hunt on daily kos has really upset me. Given the support and holes in Tweeden story, it should take way more than impossible to defend “he touched my ass” claims for us to turn on one of our best senators. Have we learned nothing about how th GOP fights?

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
26. Deplorables aren't the only ones easily distracted.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:45 PM
Nov 2017

Too many Democrats are ready to be turned stupid by the flash of shiny objects.

I am really disgusted by the "liberal" media that piled on this.

I am heartbroken that so many here on DU were so easily duped. (And then in a fit of republican-like behavior, refused to apologize.)

greenman3610

(3,947 posts)
27. having a hard time understanding how a state fair, surrounded by hundreds of people with cameras
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:51 PM
Nov 2017

makes sense as the place to stage groping attack.

given that Franken has done thousands of these grip and grins,
seems plausible that at least a few of the grinners might
have been missing a few marbles.

Polly Hennessey

(6,788 posts)
29. Guess what
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:53 PM
Nov 2017

I am thankful for Richard Painter. To think that the clear voice in all this is a Republican. I knew there were still some principled Republicans left.

FakeNoose

(32,596 posts)
43. He really hates Trump and what has happened to the GOP
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:25 PM
Nov 2017

I don't think Painter will ever be one of us, but he's (I guess) a moderate and sensible Republican, if there is such a thing.

What's cool is that he's willing to speak up in the national media to throw this evil in their faces. That takes balls and most of the "moderate" Republicans are too chicken to do it. Maybe he's trying to redeem himself from the Bush 2 bullshit that he participated in, back in the day.

But anyway it's a very good thing that he's speaking up now.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
31. With Hannity's friend as accusser and Roger Stone involved, what else could we expect.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 01:55 PM
Nov 2017

And mind you, they do oppo research on everyone and this is the best they can cook up!

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
42. Quit clinging to the increasingly futile hope that Franken didn't do this
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 02:23 PM
Nov 2017

It's really sad watching people twist themselves into contortions to justify supporting a guy who clearly doesn't understand the concept of keeping his hands to himself.

PatSeg

(47,282 posts)
51. I'm sorry
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:05 PM
Nov 2017

This whole thing smells fishy to me and I've known women who have lied because they had an agenda or wanted attention. It is not "futile hope" to believe that Al Franken has been a victim of dirty political tricks.

I was disappointed when allegations came out against people I admired, but the evidence was overwhelming. I don't see that with Franken. I'm not throwing someone under the bus every time someone accuses them of some sort of misconduct.

 

LBM20

(1,580 posts)
55. Quit clinging to convicting people with scant evidence and jumping to conclusions.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:22 PM
Nov 2017

You are either trolling or swallowing Kool Aid. Try thinking more deeply and FAIRLY. You have accusers who are confirmed Trump lovers. You have one saying she was "Just Totally Molested" when she extremely obviously was not. Pure hyperbolic BS. You have another claiming he asked her to meet him in a bathroom. Really? Men's or Women's? He totally denies it and should. You also have MANY women across DECADES signing statements that they NEVER experienced such things working with Franken for many years. In fact, just the opposite.

Look at your OWN background did you ever say or do ANYTHING questionable along these lines, even just jokingly at the time but later realized that maybe it wasn't the best choice? Are YOU a perfect angel? Or do you have a few skeletons of your own? Because the truth is that no adult has had a perfect past. We have probably all said or done something, even just in a non-serious way, that today would be called inappropriate. Do you pass the perfection test? C'mon. Come clean. Because it is very doubtful.

 

tapermaker

(244 posts)
60. youre wrong
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:51 PM
Nov 2017

and you contribute to my high blood pressure.liberals think of others and have empathy , so stop it please.

Denzil_DC

(7,222 posts)
67. On another thread earlier, you accused me
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 05:20 PM
Nov 2017

of being part of "the people here posting pictures of Tweeden as proof she's slutty and thus consented".

Remember it? https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9879695

That's a smear by association.

I invited you to do a search on my past posts to prove or disprove your allegations. Have you done it yet?

You slung mud, then quietly moved on when I called you on it. No apology, no "Oh, OK, I was wrong, sorry."

Does that ring any bells? Because you're sure ringing a few of mine right now!

Somebody's in contortions, alright.

 

jl_theprofessor

(95 posts)
77. Sure
Fri Nov 24, 2017, 08:48 AM
Nov 2017

When I give up my belief that an accused has the right to face their accusers in a public forum and be presumed innocent until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

bagelsforbreakfast

(1,427 posts)
56. Du vs the Trolls - The Treasure of DU!
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:25 PM
Nov 2017


and



Evidence? We don't need no stinking evidence!

Anonymous? We don't need no stinking credible accounts!

moondust

(19,961 posts)
57. Inclined to agree with Mr. Painter.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:25 PM
Nov 2017

His background in law, ethics, and being around GOP politicians gives him more credibility than almost anybody IMO in the realm of unprovable, he-said-she-said, sexual harassment claims. It seems especially difficult in the case of a former professional comedian to discern what may have constituted groping vs. what may have been just good-natured goofing around for a laugh vs. not happening at all.

marieo1

(1,402 posts)
58. marie01
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:33 PM
Nov 2017

Isn't it ironic.........all of these allegations against Al Franken, all from DJT supporters!! I really believe the Republicans are running scared and are trying to divert attention away from the Russia investigations, Roy Moore and others!! This is their 'old' trick!!

Bungalowgal

(33 posts)
59. Doesn't make sense
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:47 PM
Nov 2017

It doesn't make any sense that Al Franken, running his first Senate race, a very tight race, would risk everything by grabbing a woman's butt. My gut is telling me that this a setup.

Hekate

(90,564 posts)
61. When are we ever going to learn? Painter is absolutely right: Dems are being ratfckd--again.
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 03:55 PM
Nov 2017

We take the bait and eat our own.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
63. Very good analysis
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 04:16 PM
Nov 2017

and, to me, this are two of his best quotes:
"This situation appears as if it is a complete and total “setup” and yet a vast number of liberals, in a “holier than thou” attitude, refuse to use critical thinking for analyzing the condition."

"In this case, we have a woman that signed up for known sexually oriented skits and performances that she approved of, and rehearsed, and then performed many of them onstage in both a preplanned and ad hoc way."

Why is she so afraid of an investigation?

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
65. Anyone remember Pelosi knew?
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 04:49 PM
Nov 2017

Back in the W administration when we discovered that the CIA not only tortured but also illegally destroyed documents about their torture? And the Neo Cons got DU off topic for 48 hours by telling us that Nancy Pelosi had been brief about CIA activities and all of a sudden it was all her fault? I suspect most people have forgotten. I remember because I spent that weekend connecting the dots to figure out who set up a the distraction.

“Franken the tasteless comedian was tasteless” is what we should be calling this one. And the real story is who is pushing it and why? Is it just meant to help out Moore or to distract us from Mueller? Could the NRA also be involved? A church got shot up right before the holidays and what are we all talking about?

FakeNoose

(32,596 posts)
71. I've only been on DU for less than a year
Thu Nov 23, 2017, 11:39 PM
Nov 2017

...so no, I can't say that I remember the crazy story about Nancy Pelosi. None of it surprises me though.

The rightwingers want to burn Al Franken because of Jeff Sessions, their poster boy. Remember the confirmation hearing for Sessions when Franken got him to say under oath, on TV, that he never met with the Russians or had any communication with them during the campaign? It was perjury - Sessions lied under oath.

Al Franken has been very effective at the Senate hearings and he's done some excellent interviews on MSNBC and other news outlets. It would be safe to say the rightwingers really hate him and will do just about anything to burn him.

Also they need a deflection to get the Democrats off of serial-pedophile Roy Moore's back, just long enough to get him elected. It's as simple as that.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Richard Painter on Al Fra...