John Ziegler: I Loathe Al Franken, But It Sure Seems Like He is Getting Totally Railroaded

[Trumpocalypse]

Based on what we currently know, however, it sure seems like he is getting railroaded today based on the story by Los Angeles radio anchor Leeann Tweeden (who works on the show of Doug McIntyre, who I consider a friend). In fact, this is almost exactly the type of story I warned about earlier this week while discussing the new, much lower standards, which the news media suddenly has adopted for reporting allegations of sexual abuse.

Even the nature of the report itself fails to live up to normal journalistic standards. She did not tell this story to a major news outlet which then verified the details on its own. This was just her own personal account of what she says happened, with no independent reporting or examination of Franken’s side of the story, published on the website of her employer, a very lowly-rated “conservative” talk radio station.

This story, as it currently stands, is not fair journalism and my fellow conservatives would be screaming bloody murder if the target was a Republican they liked, rather than a Democrat they hate.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/i-loathe-al-franken-but-it-sure-seems-like-he-is-getting-totally-railroaded/

[Madam45for2923]

1. Makes sense, if it was on the other side they would be screaming foul.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. This story has been speeding at 200 mph so I've barely had a chance to digest it.

The only thing I can say is that once I heard Roger Stone was talking about it before the story broke, some serious red flags came up.

That's not a comment on either Franken or Tweeden's credibility in the story itself. I'm still weighing all that.

But nothing ever good comes out of Roger Stone.

[dewsgirl]

5. Roger Stone knew at 1:00am hours and hours before everyone else.

[mountain grammy]

38. Yeah nothing fishy there

This stinks of Roger.

[MBS]

44. " " " " n/t

[MaryMagdaline]

3. What????

She didn't choose the right media outlet in order to tell her story so she must be "railroading" Al? We rate this person based on whether she is in with the "right" people? She's a nobody who told her story to a nobody???

This does not do Al Franken or our side any good. Follow his lead on this. "Investigate me; her complaint is worthy of an inquiry."

[HipChick]

6. Jesus, Joseph Mary...

[ChubbyStar]

10. Thank you

The "our side" comments always make me barf.

[awesomerwb1]

11. Oh boy

You're not in eastern europe by any chance are you?

But come on, really?

[procon]

20. LOL - you stole my thoughts!

I had the same suspicion. That rant missed the whole point, just what you would expect from Boris and Natasha.

[MaryMagdaline]

55. Logging in from South Florida

Though I am surrounded by Trump's money laundering/human trafficking/condo stuffed Russians, I haven't gone over to the other side.

[IronLionZion]

14. Welcome to DU!

[Dem2]

15. Why cherry pick?

Let me first say that I don’t think Tweeden is lying. Franken himself has confirmed part of the story. There are many very serious problems with this accusation instantly being universally picked up by nearly every major news outlet, however, without a hint of vetting or thought, so that, as of this writing it is by far the biggest news story of the day (I have been particularly appalled at many of my fellow conservatives for not being able to resist immediately jumping all over Franken, obviously out of political retribution).

The first issue I have is context. This happened as part of a comedy routine on a USO trip. The little details here matter a lot and it is very easy for them to be altered or exaggerated over time either through the limits of human memory, or via changing self-interest. Even if we assume her story to be 100% true, In Franken’s mind he may have been rehearsing a comedic kiss (one which she admits she originally agreed to), while to her he was creating an excuse get a cheap thrill at her expense.

Her whole story really revolves around the extent of the “rehearsed” kiss. It is the only element of this claim which really clearly falls under the heading of “abuse” or “assault.” On this we are relying on her eleven-year-old recollection versus his (it should also be pointed out that she went ahead with the performance after this occurred, apparently without any sort of official complaint).

That is simply not enough evidence, given the nature of the allegation and the surrounding circumstances, for this to qualify as a major news story. If it is, then we might as well create a news channel to report on such allegations about famous people on a 24/7 basis, because that is where we are headed.

There's plenty more to read at the link...

[red dog 1]

26. What's the weather like in Moscow today?

How much does Putin pay his "Putinistas"?

[GoneOffShore]

31. Nailed that one.

Don't think they'll be here long.

[paulkienitz]

28. Al himself had a far better response

[Volaris]

40. Agreed, because now if there is anything to be found, including anything nefarious,

BY ANYBODY, Al can say 'I welcomed it then, I STILL welcome it now, and now we know what really happened. If any of this is bullshit, it will be found out in a very very public way, and the Bullshitters will be held to account.

Moore can hardly say the same thing, and this will destroy the 'both sides do it' narrative.

Very responsible of him personally. Very very tactically smart of him professionally and politically.

[GoneOffShore]

29. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

And as we used to say - What do you want on your pizza?

[Kirk Lover]

35. Did you read anything else? There was no journalistic integrity....AT ALL.

[Mr. Evil]

46. The photographer that took the photo said it was staged.

Also that Leeann was not asleep. But, of course she can pose nude with sea creatures and that's totally ok. I'm thinking Sen. Franken is going to clear this up real quick.

[Maraya1969]

53. From a "MeToo" woman there are a few things that makes me question her accounting

First, we see the picture of Al Frankin being an insensitive jerk and having someone taking a picture of his being a jerk, but he is not touching her breasts. And she called that groping. She didn't just call it, she kind of screamed it.

Second, when you are in a play or a movie or anything like that and you have to kiss someone, you have to rehearse it. You don't want to end up knocking noses or teeth or just the wrong angle and you look like idiots. They were professionals and she should have known that.

Third, when I was molested I did not want to yell it out to everyone like she said she did. I was humiliated and embarrassed and, unfortunately, I blamed myself like so many other victims do. It took a lot of time before I came forward and then it was only to a few close friends. I did get a chance to confront my accuser several years after the fact and when I did I was a nervous wreck and my words were are jumbled. And I had a close friend with me and previous to that I had attended a support group of people who helped me to make the decision to confront him if I got that chance.

I think the worse he did, if he did it, was stick his tongue in her mouth. That's wrong to just do that unless it is written that way in the skit. But still, many actors have to do it.

Oh and Edit: She said their trip home took 36 hours. Unless they went by camel she is full of shit

[ginnyinWI]

4. Very good.

This is spoken fairly and I applaud him for it.

[Corgigal]

7. Hope Roger Stones check

will float you for the rest of her career, dear.

[BigmanPigman]

8. Good point, that didn't occur to me.

[octoberlib]

9. The check probably came from Mercer.

[awesomerwb1]

13. Mercer/Brainfart

I agree.

Everything about this story screams BS when you look at it closely.

[ancianita]

12. Ziegler's right. Scuttle any talk of an investigation. The party should back Al's apology in full.

[awesomerwb1]

16. What if Franken is asking for an investigation

not because he knows the story is BS, but to expose the people behind the smear job?

[GoCubsGo]

23. I suspect that's a good part of it, but

I'm sure he wants to prove he has nothing to hide here.

[ancianita]

32. Clever. Perhaps he'd expose them, but the damage would be done, I think.

The damage done is that the Democratic Party will show itself to be, innocent or not, appeasing Republicans by capitulation in the most public, formal terms.

The public is likely to see this "investigation" as proof that "both sides do it," no matter what the outcome.

[Volaris]

41. Not if it exposes the rat-fuckers as actual Rats.

[ancianita]

42. That's a big "if." Likely the larger picture will be that he allowed himself and the party

to be set up and allow an investigation at all. They'll look weak.

We already know that the ratfuckers are Trump related, and the trumpanzees are now elated.

It's likely that naming names won't change anything since it likely can't be traced to anyone in this administration.

We'll see.

[JI7]

21. Franken WANTS an investigation

[ancianita]

43. So?

[JI7]

45. So many of us want the truth. Unlike your agenda to blur things regardless of facts

[spotthebird]

50. She wasn't truthful on an important point

He didn't grope her as she slept while someone photographed. One must touch the victim to grope her. The photograph displays mock groping, not an assault on an unconscious person.

Also, even by her account, the kiss she didn't want was in the script. Perhaps it wasn't normal for her, but I suspect rehearsal is normal for a professional actor such as Franken. She knew the kiss was part of the act, she agreed to rehearse, so what's the problem again?

[ancianita]

52. Exactly. This is some made up shit.

[red dog 1]

64. + 1

Welcome to DU!

[Oneironaut]

17. Im tired of hearing how badly the perpetrator of sexual harassment is being hurt by their actions.

The accuser is treated as the one creating the problem. It shows that we still have a long way to go.

[Mr.Bill]

22. You do realize that sometimes

that is exactly what is happening, right? Maybe not now (don't know yet) maybe not most of the time, but often enough people with a motive do this so it must at least be considered.

[Oneironaut]

54. Sure, but in this case, its kind of hard to argue against a picture.

Also, people even do it when the assaulter / harasser admits to it. “We can’t send them to jail - it will ruin their life!” It’s like the victim is the monster for speaking out.

[Mr.Bill]

56. I find that picture very easy to argue with.

I am waiting to hear from the other people who were present in the room before I have a final opinion.

As far as Franken apologizing, right now if he did anything else he would risk being compared to Roy Moore, and he knew it.

[kcr]

57. Actually, it's kind of easy.

I'm amazed at all the But the Picture, Tho! arguments. It's actually incredibly easy to take a picture and misrepresent what it's depicting, even without manipulation. One image frozen in time of a dynamic situation can change the appearance and make it look like something else happened altogether. A perfect and benign example is blinking or grimacing right at the moment someone takes your picture.

I could easily see someone taking a picture of a gag that everyone took part in and seeing it as an opportunity to smear someone. But it's a picture of someone being groped! Pics don't lie!

[WyLoochka]

58. Groping involves touching

or did up until today. He's not even touching her.

[loyalsister]

66. The point is that groping is not funny

pretending to grope someone diminishes the seriousness of it. Franken understands. He apologized, and that can be a valuable step towards finding social agreement that it is problematic behavior.

[Rainngirl]

18. I would wager

that any human man who was raised in this misogynistic American society, has at some time done something inappropriate like this in his lifetime. I'm not excusing it, but every woman has experienced it. But it is a far cry from the rampant pedophilia and raping by the GOP scumbags and the jumping on the bandwagon for every single thing that has occurred in the history of men being stupid with women needs to stop. (I'll probably get slammed or flamed, or whatever it's called, but whatever.)

[GoCubsGo]

19. I suspect this is one of the reasons Franken insists that they investigate him.

We hear Roger Stone's name coming up, and that this woman was a Fox "News" regular. And, that Franken caught Sessions in a pack of lies over Russia yesterday... The whole thing reeks.

[DownriverDem]

24. Just a diversion

so repubs cans say see Dems do it too.

[reggaehead]

25. This "incident" was part of a USO skit

Who is the audience for the USO? Overseas American troops. This type of humor is not only accepted by this audience. It is expected. More likely demanded. I do not for 1 second believe she was "sleeping" in a combat helmet and flak jacket (outdated gear by decades). And I do not believe you can grope someone through a flak jacket (akin to raping someone with a chastity belt). And what about the guy "sleeping" next to her. And the hamming to the camera. Then she immediately accepts his apology after he calls for an ethics investigation. Sorry this thing smells of a concocted effort to change the story from Judge Roy Moore.

[Cattledog]

27. Hannity said today she showed him the photo years ago.

Apparently it was taken on her own camera as a bad joke that she would see when she checked her pics. I bet he said hold on to it and use it at the right time.

[red dog 1]

37. + 1

Reminds me of Linda Tripp telling Monica Lewinsky: "Don't wash that dress!"

Her timing couldn't be better (for the GOP)
She waits 11 years to reveal that "gag photo" now?

[paulkienitz]

30. some conservatives will uphold principle over partisanship... the principle of sexism

[srobertss]

33. Offer to step down if Trump steps down

I think that would be the perfect response to this. It would be a definitive Al Franken gesture. Maybe he's saving that for later.

I am a bad feminist (internalized sexism) and Im in my 60's so it's probably a generational thing, so Im trying very hard to be fair. But it surprises me to hear even people on the left calling for him to step down, when so far the only evidence is the photo, which is bad, but not a reason to step down. Franken is saying he doesn't remember the rehearsal happening the way she describes. With Trump as president, accused of the very same behavior and worse by so many more women, it seems ludicrous to call for Franken to resign. Are members of the left trying to lean over backwards to display their fairness? How many people in Congress and in legislatures across the country would have to step down with this level of evidence of bad behavior? And comparing Franken's behavior to Roy Moore's is also ridiculous. Moore was banned from a mall and the YMCA.

[Pluvious]

48. This is like a classic case of "false equivalency" Bill Maher is always railing at...

With Chelsea Handler joining him tomorrow night,
should make for interesting discussion on this.

[bdjhawk]

67. Members of the left ALWAYS lean over backwards

to show how fair we are. WE create the false equivalency appearances, the righties don't even have to do it themselves.

You want one example of false equivalency? That the story of a man doing something as an inappropriate joke AND NOT TRYING TO HIDE IT FROM WITNESSES is as bad as a pervert who gets young girls into his car ALONE BY THEMSELVES and does things like pulling their heads toward his crotch and trying to kiss them against their will.

[red dog 1]

34. Ziegler is right!

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Even though the stunt was dumb, Franken was "railroaded"

Tweeden?...Sounds like a nick-name for Drumpf.

(From Wikipedia)
"She has made appearances as a commentator on such FOX NEWS shows as Hannity and Red Eye."

Currently working as "news anchor" on the far-right-wing "McIntyre in the Morning"

Imo, Franken was "set-up" by a well-paid Trump-loving bimbo.

[melman]

39. "She's no angel, that's for sure.. "

"Appearing nude in Playboy & a former "Hooters" hostess proves that much."



Seriously? Holy shit. I can't believe I just read that.

[paulkienitz]

47. did you actually just slut-shame someone who reported abuse??

[red dog 1]

61. No, I merely pointed out some facts about this REPUBLICAN, Fox News, Sean Hannity "shill"

who reported "abuse" that was NOT actual abuse!

See the following replies:
- Reply # 15
- Reply # 46
- Reply # 53
- Reply # 25
- Reply # 27
- Reply # 57

[paulkienitz]

62. shill or not, you still tried to draw a line from Hooters to immoral.

[red dog 1]

63. I certainly did not!

YOU did!

Let me ask you a couple of questions:
1) - Do you think Al Franken sexually abused that woman?
2) - Did you read ANY of the replies I listed in my reply to you?

[red dog 1]

65. I just deleted the Hooters and nude in Playboy references

They weren't that important anyway..(I never should have used those truths about her past)

What's important is that this bimbo is probably working on behalf of the GOP to obfuscate the facts about Roy Moore's REAL sexual assault allegations, which now have been made by SIX different women.

[spotthebird]

51. Franken didn't grope her.

as she described. Did she make up anything else?

[Dawson Leery]

59. She is a birther and a Hannity tool.

[red dog 1]

60. + 1

[TacoD]

36. Glad to see the "Jerry Sandusky Is Innocent" guy being quoted approvingly on DU (nt)

[spanone]

49. K&R...