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[Beakybird]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Beakybird) on Thu Nov 16, 2017, 07:55 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[BainsBane]

1. This is the womans account

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

Her allegations are not limited to the photo.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. I dont believe this trump supporter.

[BannonsLiver]

8. +1

If she's a Trumper it calls EVERYTHING into question.

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. Some folks here are bothered that I would repeatedly call her a liar.

I wish people would do MORE than that

While she lies about this the Senate is preparing to kill old people and poor people.

I am pretty fucking FURIOUS, why others arent I dont know.

[BannonsLiver]

16. No argument here. I think she's a lying sack of shit as well.

Trump supporter? Check.

Hannity/Fox news guest? Check.

Conflicting accounts from others who were there? Check.

I've seen about all I need to see.

[SCantiGOP]

67. Wow, some comments

Guess we should give Roy Moore the benefit of the doubt too if it turns out the women accusing him are Democrats.
A lot of hypocrisy in this thread.

[Ligyron]

79. Except none are that I know of.

A couple have stated they supported Trump.

[Marengo]

86. If thats the case, are they believable?

[Marengo]

80. Or, better yet, what if any of the women accusing Roy Moore are Republicans?

[misanthrope]

93. You mean as most of them are?

More than a few of them have boasted their GOP bona fides, including voting for Trump.

[Marengo]

94. Interesting, I wasnt aware of that as I dont take that into consideration. Has the DU community...

Accused them of dishonesty and questioned their motive based on political orientation?

[AllyCat]

83. Amazing, isn't it? Lets not believe the victim.

Why would he apologize if this was not true. He has handled it well with an actual apology that she has expected. But, it seems others here don't trust her because: she is a 45 supporter, she must have faked it because the male photog says she did, or maybe it's because she is a woman and we don't take what they say at face value.

[MFM008]

77. I join you

Let there be an investigation.
It will perhaps bring out her motive.

[Dawson Leery]

18. This was a rehearsal for a skit.

Acting cannot credibly be called "sexual assault".

[smirkymonkey]

24. Neither do I. Funny that he is one of the most liberal members of the senate and suddenly this is

coming out now. Typical "whataboutism" republican propaganda bullshit.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. The entire instance is now explained OTHER than this mysterious moment where there are NO

witnesses where she claims he pursued her.

Never happened.

[MFM008]

30. Nor do i

They are DESPERATE to change topic off Moore and maggots tax thievery.

[Kahuna7]

31. I don't either. nt

[kcr]

5. If the photo is indeed staged, then that diminishes her credibility.

If she's lying about the photo, then I don't believe the rest of the story either, especially given her connection to Hannity.

[Kirk Lover]

20. And what are the other allegations. NOWHERE does she say he forced himself

on me. And this whole photo thing is just beyond RIDICULOUS.

[pnwmom]

3. Well, that puts a different light on it. Also, the photo shows shadow marks that make it appear

that his hands are merely hovering, rather than touching her.

[C_U_L8R]

6. It's so obviously a staged prank.

Republican kkklowns think they might score some points and distract with yet another whatabout. They are that desperate.

[sandensea]

7. That's the problem with allegations of this nature.

They become a free-for-all, and a easy way to condemn someone in the court of public opinion whether or not they did anything improper.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

9. Why apologize?

Simply state that?

[MFM008]

32. He's thinking

Even though a joke, if she was offended he should apologize.

[Lazy Daisy]

48. Exactly

in his apology he includes women who this has happened to and women who are afraid this could happen to them.
If it turns out this photo was staged, and he know it's all horse hooey, he's still apologizing to the rest of us women. It's a damn fine response he's given.

[avebury]

76. Democrats apologize, Republicans deny or blame the victim. nt

[PdxSean]

74. Ditto.

My first take was “play sleep” eyes.

[David__77]

11. It looked staged to me.

Whether or not it was, I don't know. My initial thought was that it was staged and that this is being dragged out now because it's convenient to do so.

[Kingofalldems]

12. Staged meaning she was in on it.

[ChubbyStar]

19. So bizarre, did she think everyone present would forget that fact?

She is either really stupid, getting paid for this distraction, or REALLY FUCKING STUPID. I suspect all three.

[SaschaHM]

14. Where is the actual source of this quote?

I've seen the same thing repeated by multiple twitter users and yet, none has linked to a reputable source.

[moriah]

21. I want the real thing myself on that. I think...

... that Franken would have said it was a staged photo if the photographer/other people could actually be produced to back him up.

[moda253]

40. Why?

He said it wasn't a funny joke. And in retrospect it wasn't. Now he has the photographer chiming in for him and the escort person as well. He said all he needed to say and let witnesses come to his aid.

[moriah]

41. She alleged it was unconscious groping.

I just want the actual photographer's original Tweet, or the source that this statement is coming from.

The escort officer's Twitter has been pretty interesting.

Here's Franken's full statement:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/360697-franken-releases-new-statement-calls-for-ethics-investigation-of-himself

He says she would have felt violated by the picture. I don't see how someone could feel violated by a picture they consented to and posed for unless they were pressured/coerced into posing for it, which is also unacceptable. (Edit: or had been shared without consent).

[B2G]

15. Dude has a tenuous relationship with the truth.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/aug/28/blog-posting/outdated-photo-wrongly-suggests-barack-obama-food-/

[Kingofalldems]

17. No. Not gonna work.

[B2G]

23. What's not gonna work?

Taking some blogger's tweet as gospel? Who was the photographer, what is his name and where is the link to his statement?

[B2G]

27. No link? nt

[moriah]

34. Apparently they didn't have one.

I was all set with this to reply with:

Unless I know the name of the photographer and see them make the statement not on Twitter (unless they say "I'm Blah, the photographer" on their own page and that's verified as actually being them)....

I'm going with "Wouldn't Franken had said it was part of a staged gag photo if others present could back him up?"

And if you want to say I should be banned for wanting better sourcing than Twitter about something, then please, keep helping feed the way people spread things without verifying sourcing. 4chan loves people doing that.

So yes.

Sources, please, so we don't become part of the problem.

[B2G]

38. Yes. Thank you. nt

[Freethinker65]

22. Ok. But is does raise the question, who did take the picture and who else was there?

[BootinUp]

25. Duhhhh. Nt

[rockfordfile]

28. Republicans are desperate

[PatSeg]

29. It really DOES look like a staged photo

and the corny kind of humor that Franken is known for. This whole story stinks and is what I've been afraid would happen. Meanwhile, the republicans have yet another distraction. "Oh look, over there. It's Al Franken!"

[kcr]

37. Yes. I think his apology is for that type of humor. Same thing he did in his book.

He's not admitting to her accusastions. His full statement actually makes me think this will all bear out.

[PatSeg]

54. I was thinking the same thing

I remember the apology in his book. I've never seen him behave evasive and he owns up to his mistakes. This one is really pissing me off.

[kcr]

60. What's aggravating me is the pressure to immediately throw him overboard

Because if you don't you're not a woman-believer! It's such an extreme distortion because the point has never been that no one ever lies, so even if the story is hinky, you aren't allowed to disbelieve, oh no! I almost have the feeling that this is a schadenfreude moment for some when they're calling for Franken's immediate resignation and they're not a member of the GOP. Nope, there's no such thing as the right wing smear machine! The only explanation is YOU'RE a FEMINAZI HYPOCRIT DEM! And if you don't fall all over yourself to immediately condemn Franken, YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!

[PatSeg]

81. I was so afraid

that it was going to come to this. Because there have been so many credible allegations that past few months, I knew that people would start to jump on every allegation as true without examination. To not immediately attack the accused, might indicate that we don't believe women when they come forward. For the most part I will take people at their word, but I have known people, both men and women, who would lie about anything to further an agenda or just to get attention.

Meanwhile, this is a great distraction for the republicans when they really need one and will further divide us as a party.

[kcr]

88. Yes. Exactly.

In some cases it's a form of backlash, in my opinion. I think some of it is sincere because of the pressure, but I can't help but believe some of it is a form of deliberate misunderstanding given the history of some of the people who do this. It's a form of that bumbling "I just don't understand, this is all so confusing, all this change" when what they really want is to defend the status quo.

[PatSeg]

95. True

Change is very uncomfortable for many people. The backlash is often instant and spontaneous.

[Marengo]

35. If this were true, why hasnt Franken stated so from the start?

[nycbos]

39. +1

[standingtall]

36. The events of the photo is more than likely staged

Franken isn't even touching her, but his hands are only hovering above. We cannot verify the man that claims to be the photographer was actually the photographer, but she is wearing a kevlar helmet? Who falls asleep wearing those? Those things are heavy especially leaning backwards sitting in are chair like that.

[Marengo]

42. If she didnt consent, none of that matters

[Pugster]

43. Delete your post

An update doesn't fix the fact that you falsely claimed the photographer contradicted the victim.

[ChubbyStar]

45. No the post does not need to be deleted

Are you the boss? No, I didn't think so Thanks, hope you have a blessed day!

[Bayard]

44. Isn't she wearing body armor?

Actually......that would be a good idea for anyone who has to get close to tRump or Moore.

[Denzil_DC]

46. I'd like to see this version of the account verified, if true.

For the record, here's the tweet:

Link to tweet

Aiden Benjamin @Feisal_Hagi

BREAKING NOW:

Al Franken photo staged according to photographer who took the photo.

Photographer: [S]he was playing dead and SHE wanted him to ‘revive’ her. I took the picture it was a funny moment everyone was smiling having a good time

Leeann Tweeden is a trump supporter.

All we have as evidence here is a tweet from this Aiden Benjamin (who doesn't seem like any authority with only 849 followers), who gives no source for his quote.

I'm also suspicious that he puts the "groping" pic alongside one of Tweeden in a bikini.

I don't give a damn if she's been photographed in a bikini or indeed nothing at all - it has nothing to do with it other than an apparent attempt to muddy her reputation. Her reputation may be questionable for other reasons (the timing of these allegations for one, her political allegiances for another), but this sucks.

Unfortunately, this long after the events, the real circumstances of the photo are probably going to come down to "he said, she said".

The allegations about the "rehearsal" kiss" are another matter, but I'm inclined to let Franken handle this himself.

[BannonsLiver]

47. Well know whats up if shes a guest on Hannity or Tucker tonight.

[Denzil_DC]

50. Not really.

She'll no doubt get whatever exposure she wants to go through with. It won't tell us what she's "up to". If she does, it'll just add more fuel to the fire, and that's for Franken to handle in his own way.

Beating back against it without knowing the facts (which will probably be in dispute after all this time) will just build the fire even higher.

[BannonsLiver]

51. Yeah my bad

I should have written those of us who posses political street smarts will know what’s up.

[Denzil_DC]

56. I trust Franken's political street smarts over those of anybody here. n/t

[Dem2]

49. I feel it's best to withhold commenting

I did (to some extent) on the Moore accusations and I'll wait to see if any more information comes out before I form a full opinion.

At this point his smiling at the camera implies it was a (stupid, bad misogynist) joke, that's all I can determine.

[brooklynite]

57. How about: Franken aplogized; the woman accepted the apology.

[Dem2]

78. Yes, he's really stepped up very quickly on this

From what I'm learning of the circumstances surrounding this, I'm starting to feel like it's a setup.

Still, it's always best to wait a few - there's no emergency here (except online/24 hour news cycle), this may tend to further discredit the right in the end.

[Lee-Lee]

52. That photo is inside a C-17

People routinely fall asleep on flights in those because there isn’t much else to do. It’s so loud inside you can’t talk and have to wear earplugs.

Taking off from a combat zone you wear your helmet and body armor until outside the danger area.

This looks like a photo taken as she was sleeping in the side jumpseat on the C-17. I’m sure it was meant to be “funny”, I saw one account that they took it with her camera so she would see it later.

But nobody does a skit rehearsal or anything like that on a C-17. You can’t communicate to do that.

[kcr]

55. If so, wouldn't everyone be dressed that way?

Franken isn't. No headphones, either.

[Lee-Lee]

59. As I said, you wear it until the plane has crossed into safer airspace

If you fall asleep before then nobody wakes you up, but if your awake and the crew signals all clear you can take it off.

The guy next to her has his vest on too, everybody doesn’t immediately change their body armor posture as soon as you can, especially when people are sleeping.

Look in Frankens ear- there is a yellow earplug. That tells me this was an in-flight photo. Nobody keeps their earplugs in when the plane isn’t being loud.

[kcr]

61. Well. Was it in safer airspace at the time or not?

Because they aren't all dressed the same way. So I'm not sure your explanation fits. I'm more inclined to believe it was a skit.

[Lee-Lee]

72. I dont know how much simpler I can explain it so you comprehend

Everyone wears armor on takeoff and until the flight crew says it’s safe to remove it.

Just because the flight crew says it’s safe to remove doesn’t mean everyone instantly does. Some people are not bothered and leave it on. Lots of people sleep and if they go to sleep before the time when they can remove it they will be still wearing because they are sleeping. They don’t wake people up to say “hey, you can tke that off now”.

What I see there mirrors lots of similar flights I’ve actually taken, people fall asleep on their armor and it stays on until they wake up even after people have taken it off.

Understand yet?

[kcr]

85. People who think that others who don't agree or aren't buying an explanation

simply just don't comprehend are just the best. I mean, it's not like we're not talking about a controversial photo or anything.

Yes. I get what you're saying. I still think it looks totally staged and if it were in that in-between time you're talking about, they'd all likely still be wearing the same thing.

[awesomerwb1]

53. F-ck her.

These reps have no shame. I hope she DOES get shamed for being a liar and I franken don't care whether you like my comment or not.

[humbled_opinion]

63. Some of the wingnuts

were calling for him to be locked up and wanted to know why the police are not involved.

[.99center]

66. Pretended to grope.

The picture is the picture and there's definitely no groping.

[oasis]

75. It's plain to see he's clowning with his pose. No big deal. nt

[.99center]

87. Why did she claim Al groped her?

She has a right to be upset (if she wasn't just posing) but why did she claim Al was groping her in the picture? I spotted the shadows of Al's fingers on a 6 inch screen, but she didn't notice Al wasn't groping her before using the picture as proof of the assault?

[oasis]

90. To embellish her claim of groping. Republicans always exaggerate.

Always.

[humbled_opinion]

62. Well that must be

a new hand position for CPR, just saying.

[videohead5]

64. He's not touching her

If you look close he's not really touching her.

[Pepsidog]

65. Seems odd that she is sitting in full combat gear

Is she sitting and supposedly sleeping during the battle of Fallujah in full combat gear? Sounds opportunistic to me unlike the Roy Moore accusers who have nothing to gain but heartache, they are victims. Tweeden who has made a living out of exploiting her body for the gratification of men is a far cry from high school girls running and hiding in the mall when the lecherous, self-righteous piece of garbage Roy Moore who trolled Sears for teenage girls.

[Marengo]

84. Granted shes not a veteran, but I am and have slept well enough in more gear than that.

That’s not full combat gear.

[AllyCat]

68. So the male photographer says it was staged...lets not listen to how the female victim perceived the

situation...

Really?? Clearly, she did not think it was like that. Franken has handled the situation with a sincere apology and an appeal to listen to women's stories. The woman involved has accepted his apology.

Lets not start looking like the GOP does when they start pointing the finger everywhere except where it belongs.

[OnDoutside]

71. She said she was asleep, a witness says she was awake pretending to be asleep for the photo. I hope

the ethics investigation clears that up.

[AllyCat]

82. Then why has he apologized?

[OnDoutside]

92. He apologized what she said happened in the rehearsal.

Re the photo, it was a staged photo that while he thought was funny at the time, he said it wasn't funny and was inappropriate.

[infullview]

69. Tweeden

Former Fox employee.... had appearances on Hannity. Nuff said.

[Bucky]

91. Doesn't matter. He has to be held to account.

We all do, because that's how we heal our broken culture.

[SpankMe]

70. I'll need to see proof that it was staged.

Even our side of things is capable of generating fake news. Let's be sure any news on this is backed with sufficient scholarship and confirmation before we accept this story.

[OnDoutside]

73. Sarah Palin knows all the big words.

Link to tweet

[Bucky]

89. it was risky comedy, regardless of her politics, regardless of how many years ago

The risk didn't pay off in the long run, even if he got a laugh in the room. Sorry, but this sort of call-back accusation is entirely fair game in politics.

I have a radio show too, and sometimes we clown around on the air. If I ever grabbed a guest by the breasts without her permission, I'd be setting myself up under the same sword of Damocles. I doubt Franken will have to resign over this, but he's gonna have to eat crow.

In the long run, this will be good for the country. In a culture this abusive toward women, the bar needs to be set really high, just to keep everyone out of the gray areas.

[TacoD]

96. A shame that this highly dubious claim is front and center on the DU front page (nt)