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Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:26 AM

Stop bashing Hillary.

There is no point. The presidency was clearly ripped from her illegally. I’m so sick of seeing the nitpicking articles about her every 5 minutes. A mentally disturbed psycho is sitting in the oval with nukes. We’d better get it together and truly recognize what is important. Dissecting Hillary is a waste of time. Leave her alone for once in your lives.

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Arrow 145 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stop bashing Hillary. (Original post)
onecaliberal Nov 2017 OP
MontanaMama Nov 2017 #1
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #20
calimary Nov 2017 #71
TheDebbieDee Nov 2017 #2
Post removed Nov 2017 #32
calimary Nov 2017 #41
PatSeg Nov 2017 #47
Amimnoch Nov 2017 #118
PatSeg Nov 2017 #122
onit2day Nov 2017 #73
KPN Nov 2017 #74
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #76
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #75
DownriverDem Nov 2017 #92
Twisty Nov 2017 #103
LiberalFighter Nov 2017 #115
joshcryer Nov 2017 #121
Post removed Nov 2017 #3
mopinko Nov 2017 #4
George II Nov 2017 #10
Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #18
George II Nov 2017 #28
maddiemom Nov 2017 #49
FakeNoose Nov 2017 #70
maddiemom Nov 2017 #97
virtualobserver Nov 2017 #77
George II Nov 2017 #85
Post removed Nov 2017 #87
George II Nov 2017 #89
George II Nov 2017 #98
bathroommonkey76 Nov 2017 #81
scipan Nov 2017 #114
TheDebbieDee Nov 2017 #83
virtualobserver Nov 2017 #88
Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #90
scipan Nov 2017 #113
Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #125
TheDebbieDee Nov 2017 #130
aikoaiko Nov 2017 #131
GeneMcM Nov 2017 #143
elfin Nov 2017 #5
BainsBane Nov 2017 #6
planetc Nov 2017 #7
byronius Nov 2017 #68
Baconator Nov 2017 #105
BainsBane Nov 2017 #111
Baconator Nov 2017 #133
BainsBane Nov 2017 #140
Baconator Nov 2017 #141
BainsBane Nov 2017 #142
Baconator Nov 2017 #144
David__77 Nov 2017 #8
peggysue2 Nov 2017 #9
maddiemom Nov 2017 #34
calimary Nov 2017 #40
blur256 Nov 2017 #129
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2017 #11
Jim Dandy Nov 2017 #12
LisaM Nov 2017 #50
Jim Dandy Nov 2017 #63
NCTraveler Nov 2017 #13
AmandaRuth Nov 2017 #14
calimary Nov 2017 #38
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #15
treestar Nov 2017 #24
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #31
TryLogic Nov 2017 #30
Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #126
NastyRiffraff Nov 2017 #16
calimary Nov 2017 #36
sagesnow Nov 2017 #17
PDittie Nov 2017 #19
Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #23
PDittie Nov 2017 #25
calimary Nov 2017 #35
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #54
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #79
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #86
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #99
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #102
Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #21
treestar Nov 2017 #22
Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #93
treestar Nov 2017 #127
murielm99 Nov 2017 #26
tomp Nov 2017 #27
Gothmog Nov 2017 #29
tomp Nov 2017 #33
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #84
tomp Nov 2017 #119
treestar Nov 2017 #128
Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #37
calimary Nov 2017 #42
Fresh_Start Nov 2017 #44
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #57
Thekaspervote Nov 2017 #39
Nitram Nov 2017 #43
C Moon Nov 2017 #45
Sunlei Nov 2017 #58
C Moon Nov 2017 #65
Sunlei Nov 2017 #69
Enoki33 Nov 2017 #46
HopeAgain Nov 2017 #48
Sunlei Nov 2017 #51
Post removed Nov 2017 #52
left-of-center2012 Nov 2017 #55
The Mouth Nov 2017 #53
YoungDemCA Nov 2017 #56
AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #95
left-of-center2012 Nov 2017 #59
tiredtoo Nov 2017 #60
LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #62
lunamagica Nov 2017 #61
PurgedVoter Nov 2017 #64
Pepsidog Nov 2017 #66
Sunlei Nov 2017 #72
hamsterjill Nov 2017 #67
mcar Nov 2017 #78
Sunsky Nov 2017 #80
MontanaMama Nov 2017 #82
DownriverDem Nov 2017 #91
lamp_shade Nov 2017 #94
lovemydogs Nov 2017 #96
klook Nov 2017 #120
yortsed snacilbuper Nov 2017 #100
BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #101
Baconator Nov 2017 #104
redstatebluegirl Nov 2017 #106
Cobalt Violet Nov 2017 #137
triron Nov 2017 #107
onecaliberal Nov 2017 #110
trueblue2007 Nov 2017 #108
triron Nov 2017 #109
Heartstrings Nov 2017 #112
BlueJac Nov 2017 #116
Hulk Nov 2017 #117
L. Coyote Nov 2017 #124
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2017 #123
marlakay Nov 2017 #135
RandomAccess Nov 2017 #132
hadEnuf Nov 2017 #134
jillan Nov 2017 #136
WinkyDink Nov 2017 #145
dlk Nov 2017 #138
OnDoutside Nov 2017 #139

Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:28 AM

1. Amen.

I’m way past over this crap and I’m still with her.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:19 AM

20. Amen! Me too!

 

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Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:04 PM

71. Me three!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:51 AM

2. IDK! Are the Hillary bashers Sen Sanders' supporters or Russian trolls?

 

Last edited Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Both groups say the same kinds of things. Maybe it's best that we simply make a mental note, for future reference, of just WHO is bashing Hillary!

It's not what they say as much as WHO says it...

Testing...
[img]?1[/img]

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)


Response to Post removed (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:51 AM

41. Yep.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:11 PM

47. With what we know now

about Russian interference in the election, it makes you rethink a lot of Hillary bashing that we've encountered. I have no doubt that Russian Trolls have and still are trying to divide us. Putin is probably thinking, "Who would have thought it could be so easy?"

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 05:47 PM

118. I've been wondering that same thing myself.

 

The even bigger challenge is picking out those who may have been real Sanders supporters, or real Hillary supporters that just got swept up in the rhetoric vs those that were just there to fuel it.

Personally, until I see something that will make me believe that our PeeOTUS wasn't willingly and knowingly colluded in this, Rumpus and his accomplices are the only ones I will attack or even engage in attacking.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #118)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:22 PM

122. Yes

I know some "real" supporters who were swept up in the whole mess and some of them have not totally recovered. They were getting there though and now this new string of Hillary bashing is reigniting the old anger. The Russians really did a number on a lot of voters. I understand not caring for a particular candidate or preferring one person's policies over another, but nothing I've heard or read justifies the vitriol I have seen the past couple of years.

Though I am an idealist at heart, I am also a pragmatist and think we have to choose our battles. Trump and his entire administration should be our primary focus right now. I lived through that god-awful primary and don't desire to relive it.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:10 PM

73. I don't see anyone bashing Hillary.She is a part of history now

 

So referencing her will often occur but I do not see anyone bashing Hillary. I also find it disturbing that you immediately try to blame Bernie supporters for imagined slights. Disagreements are not put downs and opinions are not facts so why so sensitive. If you feel someone is bashing Hillary say who and give a reference as to where and how. Otherwise it is just being divisive. First way to fix faults is to admit you have them so there will be a lot of discussions about any public figure or party activity as we find the best way to move forward.

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Response to onit2day (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:17 PM

74. Agree with everthing you said.

Thanks. I'm just so tired of making those points repeatedly in response to divisive OPs like this over the past year.

Nobody here at DU is bashing Hillary.

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Response to onit2day (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:20 PM

76. It happens all the time Hillary, Nancy (Pelosi also other Dems) and the Democratic Party are all

They are all targeted by bitter supporters of Sen. Sanders (the primary is over folks), Russian trolls and Right wing trolls as well.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:18 PM

75. Some of each I think...and also right wing trolls.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:49 PM

92. Except

I support the folks you may call establishment Dems. They are the only grownups in DC.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:51 PM

103. This is helping?

 

Grow up already. Trump is in the White House and shit like this only serves to keep him in office.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 04:58 PM

115. That is what I would like to know.

I've seen two posts here at DU from people that have only been on DU since early this year. And they were attacking Hillary. Makes me wonder if bots or trolls are here.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:19 PM

121. This is a valid question that will be dissected in some study years from now.

I cannot tell you the outcome of said study, but we've already seen several studies about their influence in the past.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)


Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:54 AM

4. when there are national news stories about dems,

 

they are gonna get posted here. and left up.
just throwing bullshit, yeah, agree. but when it is national news, it is gonna get posted and read.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:10 AM

10. I don't think excerpts from someone's book is "national news", in many cases it's anecdotal.

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Response to George II (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:14 AM

18. She was the DNC chair.

She is talking about what she saw and knew. Yeah, it's anecdotal, but who else has that story to tell?

One could say what you said about Clinton's book, too.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:39 AM

28. She's expressing her opinion, and what we've seen so far are selected excerpts.

I didn't consider any of the excerpts of Clinton's book "national news" either, and as we've learned many of the excerpts posted from her book, even before it was released, were selected excerpts and ONLY dealt with negative things said in the book. As it turns out, it was a mostly positive book, certainly nothing like what was portrayed in pre-release excerpts.

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:19 PM

49. Agree!

As a longtime local volunteer and campaign worker for the Democrats, I voted for Hillary in the general election, but Bernie in the primary. On reflection, I'm happy that Hillary (for what it was worth) was the candidate, rather than Bernie, as I doubt he would have attained more votes overall. I'm pretty sure that the Repuglicans had an even nastier game plan in mind for Bernie, had he been the candidate. I live in a college town, and during the 2012 election, we learned that the local college students were receiving calls (from the local Republicans) acquiring as to their party affiliation, if not registered locally; then accordingly given disinformation as to polling places and their eligibility to vote locally or at home, and confusing them as much as possible. Already registering on campus, we made sure, in 2016 to make sure that the students would NOT be confused in 2016. Gotta love what Republicans have become in order to win!

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:02 PM

70. The GOP has to cheat in order to win

They can't win unless they cheat. That's why they're always looking for ways to game the system and cheat honest folks out of their vote. Don't ever take them for granted, don't ever let your guard down.

Just about every state in the USA has to undo the gerrymandering the GOP has done in the last 30 years, certainly all the states that are close to 50/50. It's very important to re-align the Congressional district boundaries (in order to undo the gerrymandering), but it can't be done until after the 2020 census. Now Trump is trying to stop the census by de-funding it.

They cheat in so many ways, by voter suppression, illegal ID requirements at the polls, bad/incorrect voter information, confusing and misleading advertising, viciously negative & deceitful campaign ads, failure to count mail-in votes, I could go on and on. They have almost unlimited campaign funding now that the Supreme Court has ruled that super PACs can donate whatever they want.

It goes so far beyond the question of "Do I like Hillary or don't I?" The question was really "Am I willing to give up all my rights and freedoms by voting an evil Republican into office who isn't even qualified for the job?" Why couldn't people understand that in 2016?

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:03 PM

97. I still think, sometimes, how gerrymandering in Ohio got rid of Dennis Kucinech in 2012.

He wasn't that likely a future POTUS, but he tried, and became a national figure. He'd been very effective in his previous offices. If Marcy Kaptur had been the loser in that race, the Republicans would have been happy, as well. Win/Win!

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:22 PM

77. are you visiting that river in Egypt again?

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #77)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:35 PM

85. No, I'm facing reality.

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Response to George II (Reply #85)


Response to Post removed (Reply #87)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:44 PM

89. What article are you referring to?

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #77)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:07 PM

98. Actually I heard something about that on my favorite NPR radio station:

Jefferson Public Radio in Southern Oregon.

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:26 PM

81. The press seems to think this is national news

 

AP, CNN, MSNBC, Reuters, and the rest of the mainstream media.

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 04:54 PM

114. Not really. She's telling us that she saw an Agreement

between Hillary and the DNC, wherein Hillary would financially support the DNC in exchange for complete control over it.

That's the meat of the article by her.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:28 PM

83. No! Some writer is stating an opinion of what they thought Ms Brazile

 

said. We don't know this writer's biases or motivations. For all we know, this writer is synopsising (sp) a completely fictitious paragraph - you won't know unless/until you read the book.

This is one of the ways propaganda and divisive memes are spread...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:40 PM

88. LOL!

 

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:46 PM

90. Wow

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 04:48 PM

113. Then read it in her own words:

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Response to scipan (Reply #113)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:53 PM

125. she still is a Clinton supporter.

the denial in these threads is amazing.

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Response to scipan (Reply #113)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 08:55 PM

130. Well, then she's throwing Hillary under the bus in order to sell books!

 

Call it DENIALISM ALL you want - the fact is that when it comes to the subject of the DNC and Hillary Clinton, the Sanders supporters, the Russian trolls and people who want to sell books about last year's elections say the SAME THINGS!

I'm not going to spend a dime on Donna Brazile's book but I am curious as to what her PROOF is! Did she say that the DNC meddled with primary vote totals or something like that?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #130)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 09:04 PM

131. DB said the agreement gave HRC control of the partys finances, strategy, and all the money raised.


That's a big deal.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 4, 2017, 12:48 AM

143. and as DNC chair she knew exactly this was b.s and was giving Trump what he needed to fire Sessions

 

based on this bullshittian nonsense Brazille, who knew exactly what she was doing, offered. She KNEW there were multiple agreements and she KNEW what was in them. She also KNEW the DNC didn't have the money to stock the campaign offices with paper towel and coffee if Clinton didn't infuse her millions.

Since Brazille's obviously to be grabbed and run with tripe released, as expected Trump's milked it just like he did with Sanders tripe, into a "Crooked Hillary" nonstop rant and excuse to finally fire Sessions because he won't "investigate" this nonsense.
You DO understand what it means if Sessions is replaced, right? or are you to busy catering to Bernie conspiracy theories that go about as far in fruition as the people in rural KY waiting for their coal jobs.

I swear to God, justice would be Clinton getting to come back from her grave to rip the hearts out of every single one of these POS who lied about her for their own personal gain and hand them to watch it take the final beat.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:56 AM

5. YES! I absolutely hate it. EOM

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:56 AM

6. The way I see it

Is that the media and others attack her so as to compensate for their collaboration with the fascist. If they can pretend the fault was all hers, they convince themselves they had no choice but to vote against her and put Trump in office.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:05 AM

7. Second this motion. eom

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:54 PM

68. Sounds about right.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:54 PM

105. There's a difference between "all" and "primarily"

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Response to Baconator (Reply #105)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:38 PM

111. What does it accomplish at this point?

I maintain that it says far more about those making the argument that Clinton herself, particularly when every single argument of that nature shows that they know nothing about what she ran on, where, or how she campaigned. And of course that ignorance is willful. They refuse to look at her issue positions, not only during the election but since. And what we get instead is a repetition of the most mindless and ill-informed media memes available. They refuse to look at any of her issue positions because the false narratives mean roe to them than truth. So in that sense it does serve the purpose of notifying the world of what--and who--they do and don't value.



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Response to BainsBane (Reply #111)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:13 PM

133. Hopefully it hammers it into people's heads...

... So we don't make the same stupid mistakes again.

So... Yeah... I'm going to go with absolutely necessary.

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Response to Baconator (Reply #133)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:56 AM

140. What mistakes are you talking about?



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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:28 PM

141. Literal books have been written on the topic...

Go check out your local library...

In a broad sense ...

Ineffective campaign strategy... Less than motivating candidate... Poor PR responses..

Or are you one of those 'we did nothing wrong... If everyone would have just been smart enough to accept we were right' types?

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Response to Baconator (Reply #141)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:51 PM

142. I figured the mistakes

You were talking about had to do with the voting rights of the majority who failed to surrender them to their bettors. How else could we have avoided the horror that was Hillary Clinton, who motivated 4 million more voters to get to the polls that her opponent? (But what do votes and voters mean compared to corporate media memes.)

She was motivating enough to get three more million voters to the polls than Trump, despite an onslaught of Kremlin propaganda, voter disenfranchisement, and hacking of voter rolls. That the very people who made their mission to lower her 69% approval rating and spread Kremlin propaganda in order to defeat her use their success as a criticism of the party is convenient though not convincing.

If all have to do is check my local library, I don’t need you to continue to criticize Clinton and her millions of voters. After proclaiming it essential to continue to attack Clinton, it turns out you have nothing to say other than “check your local library.”

I am of the camp that believes in equal rights, including voting rights. I don’t believe the votes of white men earning $100k a year matter more those of women of color, for example.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #142)

Sat Nov 4, 2017, 01:40 AM

144. Calm down...

... And cut the hyperbole.

1) No one said horror but you

2) 4 million more votes might matter if we were in a different country with a different electoral system. We aren't and it's unlikely to change anytime soon. So, what's your point?

3) Maybe you missed the sentence after the library bit?

4)I don't know what your going for in the last bit. So... Yes?

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:07 AM

8. I think its fine to criticize her campaign and her politics.

That said, we need to achieve of unity of action.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:10 AM

9. Yes, Yes & yes!

It's really quite incredible that even with the ongoing revelations on how crooked and compromised the 2016 election was, we still see a constant stream of Hillary bashing. Hello? She was the one from whom the election was stolen.

For Christ's sake, we have an illegitimate psychopath sitting in the WH. Yet somehow Hillary Clinton is the enemy?

Stop it already! All attention and energy needs refocusing on the current races ahead and on the 2018 midterms.



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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:46 AM

34. YES! THIS!

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:51 AM

40. Amen!

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 07:08 PM

129. It is victim blaming

On a public stage.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:11 AM

11. K&R nt

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:12 AM

12. Agree

 

In my opinion dividing Democrats is high on the Putinista agenda. It only helps their puppet Trump.

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Response to Jim Dandy (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:19 PM

50. It's high on the third-party agenda too.

You don't see the Green Party, e.g., trying to fracture the GOP.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:37 PM

63. The Green Party and Jill Stein are Putin puppets

 

No different than the Tea Party in that respect.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:12 AM

13. Republicans have spent decades and over a billion dollars trashing her.

 

Some are simply building off the bullshit foundation Republicans have built. It's the simpletons go-to in their efforts to ratfuck.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:13 AM

14. every time a Clinton article is read, posted, responded to

takes attention and focus off the DC nightmare -

I don't know what the purpose is, other than to take the focus off

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Response to AmandaRuth (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:50 AM

38. Or stir shit up

for the mere joy of stirring shit up.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:13 AM

15. Actions that occurred within our own party divided and damaged it during the primary.

It remains to be repaired.


Addressing, repairing, forgiving, and preventing it in the future isn't 'about' Hillary. It's about the entire entity, the process, and who and what we are.

This is bigger than Hillary. Hillary Clinton isn't (in her own words) running again, so it's as good a time as we're going to get to be introspective, sort it out, and both sides to come together, acknowledge what happened, decide not to go down that path again and heal the rift.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:31 AM

24. This is not a personal relationship!

It is a group effort!

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:41 AM

31. We should be a more unified group.

Getting there is going to require at least honestly acknowledging our own self-inflicted damage from the primary.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:41 AM

30. Well said (#15).

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:54 PM

126. thanks for a calm and reasoned outlook

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:13 AM

16. Thank you

Any excuse, any fevered theory, is used against her. Next they'll be spouting the Uranium One crap as fact.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:49 AM

36. Indeed.

Agreed. Anybody pushing that crap here, I’d have to ask - “workin’ for the Russians, are you?” Or maybe “workin’ WITH the Russians?”

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:14 AM

17. As I see it from the bottom rung...

Hillary brought back structure, organization and money back to the DNC and Bernie and his gang tried to horn in on that action at the last minute. That was how it felt to me at the Precinct level as well. Berniecrats came charging in on Primary night wanting to be in charge of everything that Democratic workers had been busting bums to build in the previous two years. That's how it seemed to me.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:18 AM

19. The few threads that I see

that are critical of Hillary get alerted and hidden within minutes of posting.

Not sure what this complaint is all about. "Bashing" any Democrat is against the TOS. That includes Bernie Sanders, by the way, as Skinner clarified long ago.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251774376#post3

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Response to PDittie (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:31 AM

23. "Bashing" is different from stating facts, isn't it?

Bashing is blaming without facts, name calling, a disrespectful tone, and the like, I would say.

Pointing out things that happened in the past that should be considered for the next election, may be valid, if strictly true, and not disrespectful or calling names.

But not sure if this is how DU sees it.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:34 AM

25. Indeed

Facts are not attacks.

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Response to PDittie (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:46 AM

35. But Bernie ISNT a Democrat.

He couldn’t drop the banner (or name, or identifier, or anything else) of our party fast enough, from the moment our party failed to crown him king.

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Response to calimary (Reply #35)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:23 PM

54. Irrelevant. He was running in our primary. The events discussed in the OP happened during the primar

y. Prior to the 'dropping of our banner'.

Interesting characterization there, about 'crowning a king'....

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:24 PM

79. Bernie is not part of the Democratic Party and will not be the nominee in 20...he is a Senator who

caucuses with us (Thanks Sen. Sanders). He was given a newly created leadership post in the Senate, and really has nothing to do with the machinations of the Democratic party. Thus, it is irrelevant how people feel about him at this point. It is time to let 2016 go.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #79)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:39 PM

86. It's not about him. It's about our ability to run a fair primary.

I don't think he'll run again. I wouldn't support him again if he did. Too much baggage.

But the question of whether we can actually run a real primary is very much up in the air, especially if nobody wants to address it because 'its time to let 2016 go' or 'stop criticizing Hillary' etc.

Look at it another way. The Sanders primary campaign raised 73 million dollars from over 1 million donors prior to the conclusion of the primary. Those monies came from independents, progressives, and democrats. That money went to a campaign that was selected as a loser before the primary even began.

Because our party was NOT HONEST WITH US about whether there was actually a primary being conducted, we wasted immense resources and goodwill on a candidacy that couldn't win, and we were not told. The only 'you can't win' messages we got were mathematically invalid, and relied upon assuming superdelegate counts before they pledge at all.


This was fucked up. If you look at the campaign finance summaries, Bernie raised 34 million more in small donor contributions than Hillary did. Those were voters that were lied to, and not by Bernie. That was money and good will that was WASTED, and could have been used in the General election instead, if they had simply not pretended to have a primary when the winner was predesignated.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #86)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:08 PM

99. Our primary was fair. First of all. We are not supposed to discuss the primary...but I will say

one thing...voters voted and votes were counted under a system of closed and open primaries as always happens. The person with the most votes won...that's a fair primary...all the rest is just bullshit. And a big who cares. Sen. Sanders will not run in the Democratic Primary again. All this hysteria which was written to promote a book (cynical) is a waste of time and only helps the GOP...I don't give a crap about 16...suggest you and others move on.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:21 PM

102. Wrong, we are not supposed to re-fight the primary.

I'm not contesting the outcome. I'm criticizing the process, and the selection that took place, rather than the person in the outcome.

WE should have selected, or we should have been told the primary was already completed. The claims in the book dovetail perfectly with court findings from the post-election lawsuits. It's not bullshit or book promotion.


I don't care about '16 specifically, I care that we can run an above board fair actual primary election.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:28 AM

21. I agree, up to a point. But we don't want to hide from the truth. "The truth will set you free."

It is legitimate, after the election, to look at all the things that came into play. It's required, if the Dems want to win next time.

It's unpleasant, but necessary. The election was a year ago. We can look at all that happened w/o skewering people.

It's a fine line. We don't want to rehash the last election, but when a witness' book comes out, should there be no reference to it? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe when it's closer to the 2020 election, it becomes more important, and the last election is further behind?

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:30 AM

22. YES!

I wish we could support our candidates and leaders as rabidly as the right does! We see where all this "helpful criticism" gets us and we can't see that now, we are blind!

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Response to treestar (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:51 PM

93. Wait.

So you WANT us to be like the Republicans? Like, the ones we mock because they refuse to call out Trump for being the idiot he is? Because...fuck that. We don't need to be like that. And shouldn't be.

If it becomes clear that the primary was not fairly run this last time around. That needs to be fixed. Regardless of other issues.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #93)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:57 PM

127. In that yes, getting out to vote

and supporting the candidate we want to win rather than always finding fault! The primary was fine. Bernie was not entitled to any special treatment, which his voters seemed to demand. They were unfamiliar with the process and so saw unfairness everywhere.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:35 AM

26. Alert on those

fucking threads when you see them.

I am so sick of this. And the same people keep posting those threads. Why are they here if that is what they are doing? This is the DEMOCRATIC underground.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:38 AM

27. tell it to Ms. Brazille. nt

 

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:39 AM

29. K&R

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:46 AM

33. and some still insist there is no I rift within the party.

 

just sayin'.

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Response to tomp (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:31 PM

84. If some choose not to vote for Democrats in the age of Trump...the only Party that can stop him and

the GOP...than there is little we can do...there is no satisfying these folks ...they wanted Sen. Sanders to be president, and it will never happen. Nothing less will satisfy them. Thus we must do the best we can to win in 18 and 20...so critical because of the courts. I can't worry about what I can't control. I will work my heart out to stop the GOP and win win win. The best policy is to ignore the Bull shit from those trying to bring down the Democratic Party...both from the right and sadly the left.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #84)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:09 PM

119. nice way to avoid the issue of my post.

 

yes or no...is there a rift in the Democratic Party?

I'm assuming you'll admit there is since you're going on about the hopelessness and cluelessness of the Bernie-ites.

Whether Sanders or anyone with similar agenda could ever be president is a matter of conjecture and opinion. that is, unless you have a crystal ball. But one thing is true--Sanders did MUCH better than anyone would have predicted.

If you're expecting the truly progressive wing of the party to just cave to orthodoxy, I think you'll find that ship has sailed, and accommodations will have to be made...and not complete concession form the left.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #84)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:57 PM

128. Letting the Rs win because the Ds are not good enough

is so dumb. It is shooting themselves in the foot.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:49 AM

37. I am morbidly curious to know

who we'll blame for all the same old problems once Hillary is gone...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:56 AM

42. Me too!

I posted about that recently - what WILL they do after she eventually passes and the only thing they’ll have is to try to dig up her corpse and try to persecute that?

They’ll stumble around like the hapless idiot (onetime GOP Senate leader) Bill Frist after going overseas to view the wreckage of that killer tsunami years ago, wailing that “there’s no one to blame!”

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:00 PM

44. we will still blame in on the Clinton's

because after all...the Clinton's made american's vote for Reagan and become more conservative and more rabidly bigoted (sarcasm alert)

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:24 PM

57. Exactly. This isn't about HRC, and it's bigger than just Hillary.

She's not running again. We're still pretending there's no leaks in our boat as we head into the next storm.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:50 AM

39. Thank you! Well said

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:00 PM

43. Agreed.

Decades of right wing propaganda has even corrupted the minds of some liberals.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:04 PM

45. The trolls always follow whatever Fox News is focusing on.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:28 PM

58. yes, (R)TV fox- it's PATHETIC the current president HAS to call into fox DAILY & run foxTV 24/7.

trump can't even survive for a day or two without foxTV stroking his ego & feeding him, M(R) T(R)ump is the biggest/sickest troll in the USA

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:42 PM

65. Seeing that station for 2 seconds makes me sick to my stomach.

I can't see how viewers can sit there for hours watching that—and not realize it's all a GOP fantasy.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:57 PM

69. Even 8ish or more years ago, was so obvious foxTV was an arm of the Republican party.

on the positive side fox did buy the rights to flintstones cartoons but they never show the cartoons!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:05 PM

46. I too have to wonder what cause is being served by the self

defeating posts that appear for no other reason than to keep us looking backwards and inflame the divide. Such posts are perpetuating Putin’s agenda and helping dotard, not to mention boosting what cretins like Nunes and his fellow conspirators are trying to do. Time to stop the Hillary bashing is worth repeating.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:13 PM

48. I agree it is time to put Hillary into the past.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:19 PM

51. She's strong, a Hero. I admire, respect & Love Hillary Clinton more every day of Rs "persecution"

per·se·cu·tion


/ˌpərsəˈkyo͞oSH(ən/


noun

noun: persecution; plural noun: persecutions




hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.
"her family fled religious persecution"


synonyms: oppression, victimization, maltreatment, ill-treatment, mistreatment, abuse, ill-usage, discrimination, tyranny; More
informalwitch hunt


"victims of religious persecution"


•harassment, hounding, intimidation, bullying

"the persecution she endured at school"




•persistent annoyance or harassment.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:23 PM

55. "Start Bashing DWS"

I too am no fan of 'Dancing With the Stars' TV show !

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:22 PM

53. I for one can see the difference

between analyzing what went wrong in the campaign, how the Republicans stole it, how to prevent that happening, in other words a post-mortem just as ANY losing team would do, be it in sports, business or politics- learning and being better next time- and casting blame around or refighting the primary (or the actions of Senator Sanders and his supporters post nomination).

I have no problem looking at where people made mistakes, be it computer security, messaging, or strategy, but only to the degree it helps us win next time. I have little patience and much contempt for any party that can't easily and clearly make that distinction, they are part of the problem.

There is a clear difference between the critical self examination that leads to improvement and playing the blame game, recriminations and refighting the primaries.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:24 PM

56. She's not POTUS, so I agree. Not relevant at this point, beating a dead horse, etc.

 

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:53 PM

95. This isn't about Hillary. It's about the Democratic Primary, of which we will have another.

We should probably resolve this.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:29 PM

59. Another 'Stir the Pot' post ?

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:34 PM

60. Just part of the cleansing process

Going through the many aspects of our continuing losses in elections at all levels of government. We all must open our eyes and face up to what we have been doing wrong, if we ever expect to regain control.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:36 PM

62. Exactly...This....

Which We Will Repoint Where The Blame and Bashing Should Be Directed Towards.....
DWS or actually known as Debbie Wasserman Schultz: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9784472

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:36 PM

61. ICAM. Thank you

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:39 PM

64. I am a Bernie fan. But I don't bash Hillary. I supported and voted for Hillary.

It was pretty obvious, pretty early that a lot of the Hillary bashers and a lot of Bernie bashers were agents, provocateurs or the easily manipulated. Sure I have some reservations and issues. I am strongly against anything DLC.

That aside, Hillary has been fighting the good fight for a long time and I honor her and her efforts. As far as I am concerned, Hillary is my president and the people holding office right now are usurpers and deserve prison for life.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

66. Watch or rewatch Trumpland to gain perspectives on Hillary

Michael Moore’s “Trumpland” puts Hillary’s life and career in perspective. She is a true patriot, not like the weak, stupid, idiotic, moronic, imbecile cowards that occupy The White House and make up the deranged Republican Party. Traitors, Cowards and Liars, all of them.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:09 PM

72. I agree, loved "Trumpland" . Hillary said about MM, "I'm his biggest fan".

The Clintons have had Michael Moore to dinner a couple of times.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 12:47 PM

67. A-Fucking-Men!

I'm still with her and always will be. She was screwed royally and everyone knows it. Yet some continue to want to screw her even more.

She's done nothing but try to help this country as the true and dedicated American that she is!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:22 PM

78. K & f'ing R!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:25 PM

80. Thank you

I totally agree. Even though I've been just ignoring the noise makers.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #80)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:28 PM

82. Good advice.

I need to start doing that too.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:46 PM

91. 100% Agree

Here's another thing I'm sick of: Folks who keep bringing up Bernie and the Dem Party in the same sentence. Bernie is not a member of the Dem Party. Folks need to realize how divisive this all is. It makes me think they are just about causing trouble for left leaners. Our focus is and should be about beating the crap out of the repubs.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:52 PM

94. Thumbs Up

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 01:54 PM

96. Personally, I think people need to stop bashing both Hillary and Bernie. Period

The election was almost a year ago.

Yet, there are constant posts slamming either Hillary or Bernie.

What the F is the point? What does it accomplish?

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #96)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:12 PM

120. Yep.

Trashing thread, but first I just wanted to post my agreement with your point of view, which is all too rare on DU.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:11 PM

100. k&R

no text

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:17 PM

101. I agree...Hillary is over

The sooner the party moves forward with new headliners the better.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 02:53 PM

104. It needs to be dissected and spread wide open...

... otherwise, 2020 and probably 2018 is just going to be a repeat.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:00 PM

106. A lot of the people doing it have less than 500 posts.

Not saying all newbies are trolls, but do some checking before you take them on. I am sure DU is a target, they need us fighting each other. Also I just wish Bernie and Donna would shut up. No election has been more important that the one in 2018. We have to pull the plug on these fascists. We can't do it fighting each other.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 08:06 AM

137. so we shouldn't get our own house in order?

We should let it happen again?

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:02 PM

107. Wonder if we have some divisive intruders keeping the Hillary bashing alive?

My bet is we do.

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Response to triron (Reply #107)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:30 PM

110. I definitely agree. I just dont understand the need for some

To beat a dead horse. Considering what was done to Hillary, you’d think she would be the one with an ax to grind. Some of it may also be misplaced anger. In any case, we need to MOVE ON.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:04 PM

108. amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 03:06 PM

109. kick for visibility

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 04:39 PM

112. Thank you

Let it go and move forward.....geesh!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 05:07 PM

116. Hating is what the GOP does.....

not liberals.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 05:07 PM

117. After watching the documentary, Putins Revenge on PBS Nightline...

...I have to wonder how much of the bashing of both Hillary and Bernie are products of Russian trolls? Or how much of it is from simply aimless, irresponsible fools who willingly play into their hands.

If you haven’t watched the two parts, you NEED TO!

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Response to Hulk (Reply #117)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:53 PM

124. Ding, ding, ding, ....

and the people they brainwashed who just can't see their emotion was generated by the enemy.


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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 06:43 PM

123. Honestly, whatever Hillary may or may not have done, at this point in time,

I don't fking care. Whatever else may or may not be true about Hillary, she is a billion times better a person and politician than Trump, who is an existential threat to our nation and quite possibly our very lives. Also, he's a total fking asshole.



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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #123)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:11 PM

135. Amen! My feelings exactly

Both Bernie and Hillary have had their time and now it is time for ALL of us to get our unity on and defeat the right!

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 09:28 PM

132. Please get over the idea that

 

facts = bashing.

And the corollary that our leaders are above reproach and should never be criticized.

That's NOT a position of strength, but of weakness. Only when we face the truth can be move forward with any real success.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 10:24 PM

134. Why bash either candidate?

Does anyone believe that the same thing that was done to Clinton would not have been done to Sanders in the general election?

The scenario had already been set by the right and their "little helpers" no matter who got the nomination.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 11:45 PM

136. Are you trying to control free speech? It's not up to you or anyone

to tell me who I can or cannot bash.

This sounds like a trump loyalty pledge.

I am completely capable of questioning the actions of certain democrats AND be vehemently opposed to trump at the same time.

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Response to jillan (Reply #136)


Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 08:20 AM

138. Who Needs Russia When We Have Bitter Bernie Supporters?

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Response to dlk (Reply #138)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 08:22 AM

139. But Brazile wasn't a Bernie Supporter !

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