Can you be pardoned if you are entering "not guilty" plea?

[Eliot Rosewater]

Or only AFTER you have been convicted of something or can the traitor pardon them now and end everything that would happen as in trials etc?

I suggested to the admins we need a forum or pinned GD thread where we can be educated by our resident attorneys about everything Russia/FBI investigation.

[librechik]

1. Trump can pardon anyone except his co-conspirators. That would be a felony.

and add to eventual charges against Trump, if any. I don't know if you can pardon before conviction. That wouldn't make much sense, but so much of this is silly nonsense.

[bluepen]

3. This is incorrect.

No such limit exists under current law or any USSC decision.

[marylandblue]

4. No rule against pardoning co-conspirators

The plain text of the Constitution makes the pardon power virtually unlimited. Limits of this power, if any, have never been tested in court.

[Bradical79]

11. He could...

But it's probably the worst decision he could make here.

[David__77]

20. Why worst decision?

I actually think that firing Mueller and a pardon of many many individuals would be politically smartest. There would be blowback and then the Republicans would support him still.

[bluepen]

2. Yes.

Supreme Court case is Ex parte Garland (1867). Justice Stephen J. Field, writing for the Court in a 5-4 decision, held that the President's pardoning power is ''unlimited,'' and ''It extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.''

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. Thanks.

I guess the only question for trump and the GOP who doesnt care if he is a traitor or not as long as he gets them tax cuts, is should they care what it looks like when he pardons people guilty of colluding with russia, our enemy.

His deplorables dont care, in fact I am willing to bet more than half of them would vote for Putin over a democrat.

Our problem is so much worse than how we are seeing it.

[pnwmom]

25. A President can't pardon himself, according to Laurence Tribe, Richard Painter,

and others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.3cd55cff0b97

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

[bluepen]

28. Not decided by courts yet.

[dpd3672]

5. Yes, the pardon power includes the power to pardon oneself, so I don't see how it would matter

if he were a co-conspirator.

As long as the crime is federal, and isn't in the future, it can be pardoned with virtually no restrictions.

[marylandblue]

6. Legal scholars are divided on whether he can pardon himself

I am sure Mueller already has a good argument for why he can't, should he ever need it.

[bluepen]

7. Mueller is apparently looking into it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-trump-russia-pardon-power-2017-10

[rock]

21. Under our system of Law

It is a basic principle that one cannot stand in judgement of one's self. You cannot judge yourself, therefore, you can not pardon yourself.

[anneboleyn]

22. Interesting. Theoretically how a monarch differs from a president

[marylandblue]

23. That's the main reason I think Trump will be indicted

and the Supreme Court will rule against him. If he can't be indicted, he can't be prosecuted or he can pardon himself, then he is a de facto monarch and I don't see even Clarence Thomas going there. The Debbie Downers here may disagree. Someday our Republic may end that way, but not today.

[rock]

24. I think anyone (except maybe trump)

Can see how silly it is to allow the defendant and the judge to be the same person. You hit it right on the head. How many monarchs in the past have found themselves guilty?

[unblock]

9. unclear if the pardon power extends to self-pardon.

the language in the constitution doesn't explicitly mention it, hence the argument for why it might be constitutionally permitted.

however, it very clearly runs counter to the intent of the framers in trying to set up a governmental framework to protect against tyrants. moreover, the word "pardon" arguably requires two separate people.

in any event, it's never come up so the supreme court hasn't opined on the matter.


one would hope, at a minimum, that any self-pardon would result in swift impeachment and removal, even if that needs a few dozen republicans to agree....

[davekriss]

18. If the current SCOTUS is asked to rule.

It will be 5-4 in favor of Trump and they’ll add that it can’t be used as precedent for future presidents. (Yes I am very cynical these days.)

[bluestarone]

27. cynical maybe

but i agree 1000%

[PoliticAverse]

19. In my opinion it's extremely unlikely the Supreme Court would find that the President...

can pardon themself.

[pnwmom]

26. Laurence Tribe, Harvard Con Law professor, Richard Painter, Bush ethics advisor, and other

top legal minds say a President can't pardon himself.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.3cd55cff0b97

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

[coolsandy]

8. Yes...pardoned for future charges related to the same crime.

[Hekate]

12. Mueller Indictments -- bookmarking

[Eliot Rosewater]

14. We need a pinned forum for all things investigation, or a forum

Especially for our resident lawyers to chime in with each day's news as to what this means, what that means.

I assume, I hope this is only the end of the beginning and we have a long way to go and a whole lotta indictments.

[Hekate]

16. Well, ask the Admins again if they could let you at least form a Group for the duration.

I thnk it's a good idea.

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. done

[jberryhill]

13. Yes

Nixon was not even charged with anything.

See also, Vietnam draft resisters.

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. You are an attorney if my memory serves.

I am trying to get the admins to do a forum called "All things Russia/FBI Investigation" so we can put in each day's news of who and what and have YOU and other attorneys give us your legal opinion of what happened that day, assuming you are willing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. Yes. Entering a not guilty plea at an arraignment is just a formality;

defendants will always do that unless they are prepared to plead guilty.

[smirkymonkey]

30. Kick!