What's your theory on how the Russian collusion happened?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

At some point in time, trump et al, determined they needed to smear hillary
more.

Did they determine this on their own or did the Russians come to them?

If they determined this on their own - why not find domestic slime peddlers? Surely, there are plenty of them.

When did Trump start taking donations? There was a time when he avoided that to the max - great talking point that he was doing it alone. Maybe the Russian route was attractive to make it look like he was spending less/taking in less than Hillary?

Either way, the Russians probably told him that they had a brilliant apparatus, and all they needed was targeted polling data so they knew where to place ads. Along with a promise to deliver DNC hacked files. In return, trump quashed the platform verbiage on Ukraine.

==================================================

Denman is a long time GOP activist from Texas. When she presented her proposal during a platform subcommittee meeting last month, "two gentleman," whom Denman said were part of the Trump campaign, came over, looked at the language, and asked that it be set aside for further review.

She says after further discussion the pair "had to make some calls and clear it." She says they found the language was still too strong.

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/how-the-trump-campaign-weakened-the-republican-platform-on-aid-to-ukraine

[kentuck]

1. It's the scorpion and the frog analogy...

The frog knew he was a scorpion before he agreed to give him a ride across the stream.

Trump was a scorpion before the election and remains one today.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. Or perhaps two scorpions...do you think trump went to them or they came to him?

[kentuck]

6. In their own self-interests...

they probably met each other half way?

What started out as a potential huge financial deal ended up a political scandal of the highest magnitude.

[DetlefK]

2. I don't think there was intentional collusion.

I think, Putin wanted to sow chaos and political instability in the US to hinder anybody who would get elected (with an eye to Clinton as the frontrunner).
* That's why they were so friendly to Jill Stein: They knew, she would attack whoever was in the lead.
* That's why they created fake liberal grassroots-groups attacking conservatives on social media: To amplify any social discord happening inside the US.

Carter Page (aka "sweaty weasel" ) was an easy mark: Good connections to russian business and looking to make it big.

Paul Manafort, the lobbyist who arranged an anti-US protest in Crimea.

Mike Flynn, the guy who once exchanged love-letters with a russian woman and was demoted in the military for a security-breach.

And of course, Donald Trump himself: Business-partner of russian mobster Felix Sater. (And it now turns out that Michael Cohen was in on the russian money-laundering as well.)



A perfect storm of tiny coincidences.



I wouldn't say it was malevolence on their part. I doubt that anybody of them thought: "I'm colluding with a foreign government to influence the US election."
I think, they were ignorant and simply didn't care about potentially breaking the law.
* Sessions meeting with Kislyak?
* Flynn entering diplomatic negotiations with Russia behind the back of the Obama-administration?
* Jared Kushner trying to set up a backchannel to the russian government outside of the eyes of US intelligence agencies?
* Trump Jr. trying to get dirt on Hillary from a russian lawyer whose fortune can in no way be explained from the wage she earns?

I believe, these people simply didn't care about things like "moral"/"immoral" or "legal"/"illegal" when they did what they did. They just wanted to win. At all costs.

They didn't believe it to be a big thing.
And now it turns out that they fucked up and that indeed is a big thing.

[Loki Liesmith]

4. I think youre wrong on that

It wasn’t that there was no intentional collusion. It’s that there was lots of intentional collusion. Manafort intentionally colluded. Page intentionally colluded. Flynn intentionally colluded. Don Trump Jr. intentionally colluded. Jared intentionally colluded. These were all independent efforts and were minimally coordinated. But they were all illegal.

I’m sure Trump had a sense of what was going on. I doubt he initiated it. But he knew Russia was helping him and winked at all these efforts.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. why do you think no one initiated or orchestrated?

[Loki Liesmith]

11. Because these people dont do organized

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Interesting - May/June polls 2016...

The Fox News results follow a rough patch for the Trump campaign: In May, the presumptive Republican nominee enjoyed a three-point lead in the same survey. But by early June, those numbers had flipped, with Clinton jumping out to a 42% to 39% advantage.
=======================
Impetus to do SOMETHING

Ignorance - can see that with the trump family - doubt they had any idea it was illegal for a foreign govt to help a US campaign. don't buy it from the veteran politicians. But can see them being told little about the details - just - "No one will ever know - we can work it so no one knows." Still strikes me on malevolence of some degree. Biggest question - who pulled it all together? Who directed those involved? Could a Manafort just do that on his own? without Dolt 45?

[uponit7771]

8. Don Jrs meeting itself was text book collusion even though they say nothing came of it.

The other part is just aiding and abetting Russia narrative by Trump campaign insiders.

The rest of it well see in the data side

[panader0]

9. Rosneft. Oil. Money. Kompromat.

[Stuart G]

10. I believe that the election was fixed, the voting machines were gamed by Russia..

In Wisconsin, and other close states, the numbers were actually changed by Russia...

now, I got no proof, I don't know nothing........................

But if ....Russia could have collusion with Trump in ways no one could think of ..well, then what is to keep Russia from having access to voting machines? somehow ..change a few numbers....????

Yes..it is illegal..so what?...Lots of things done on both sides are.."Illegal??"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. Would like the odds on all three dem states falling at once

[NightWatcher]

12. Russia never stopped fighting the Cold War. trump is their useful idiot.

In the 1980's Russia sought to have an entry into various aspects of the USA. They wanted to have an In and be seen as players in Real Estate for the access it would give them to the movers and shakers in New York and DC. trump has always had "daddy issues". trump loves Russia and the authoritarian regime there and has always wanted to be a Czar. Russia saw trump as weak and in severe debt in the 1990's and they started running him as an asset. They started using his position to gain entrance into the US market as well as to launder money through his failing endeavors.

Once it appeared that the GOP was being overwhelmed by the Tea Party, Putin saw where he could run a fake Populist to cause anarchy. When Hillary began to talk about running for President and it looked like she very well might be the GOP nominee, he weaponized his asset (trump). They pushed him and used Manafort to control trump and get him to the top of the GOP.

I have no idea how they got Bannon on board, maybe it was coincidence, happy one at that for Putin. Then Russia did their hacking into the DNC, GOP (to blackmail them into playing along), and state election boards. They attacked via social media and used a willing right wing media to move the message. They, with Javanka (Jared and Ivanka) got Cambridge Analytical to electioneer the electorate.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. That's interesting - to think about - when the Russians had their eye on

the prize...perhaps there are events to discover long before 2016. If Russia wasn't complicit then we could find out so much more. They can't and won't ever destroy Trump because in doing that they implicate themselves. Guess our only hope is that one of the players turn.

I think that if they can prove that Jared supplied the analytics to the Russians - like they said "we can destroy her...you just tell us who to target" that would be fantastic.

[gratuitous]

13. Trump and his campaign were an irresistible target of opportunity

Remember, Putin used to head up the KGB. They're always looking for an opening, a crack, someplace the thin edge of the wedge can be wiggled into. The Trump campaign featured an astounding gallery of political neophytes, people who knew how to operate in the nether regions and dark places of property development and real estate wheeling and dealing. But government? Nope, no experience there, except as a concept to complain about because you sometimes have to grease some regulatory hand or another to get a project done. The how and the why of governmental oversight and regulation is a nuisance to be ignored, an obstacle to be avoided.

The farther the Trump campaign got, the less anyone in it knew how to negotiate such uncharted waters. Nobody knew you would be observed at all times, none of them thought a thing about meeting with Russian operatives, because none of them suspected there was any illegality involved. Heck, they talked to Russians all the time about hotel deals and stuff, and nobody says anything about that. Why should a political campaign be any different?

I'm sure the Russians were delighted to find out just how naive everyone in the Trump campaign was. How could you not sit down at the no-limit table with such a bunch of rubes?

[kentuck]

14. Interesting point...

which I agree with...

" ...none of them thought a thing about meeting with Russian operatives, because none of them suspected there was any illegality involved."

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. BUT to lie about it initially. That implies that they knew it was wrong.