Discuss: In view of the following fact, corporate school reform is founded on a fallacious premise:

[Smarmie Doofus]

>>>>The mediocre performance of American students on international tests seems to show that our schools are doing poorly. But students from middle-class homes who attend well-funded schools rank among the best in the world on these tests, which means that teaching is not the problem. >>>>

LTTE: Today's NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/opinion/invitation-to-a-dialogue-an-excess-of-testing.html?_r=1

Let's assume the foregoing factoid to be true... for the sake of argument. Does this mean that the Obama/Duncan/Gates/GOP, etc. prescription for de-unionizing and privatizing large chunks of our public school system is rooted in logical and philosophical error?

I've given you a topic: corporate school "reform" is neither logical nor honest.

Discuss. Talk amongst yourselves.

[annabanana]

1. easy: "rooted in logical and philosophical error"

Ask any teacher.

[Scuba]

2. Is there a source for the "middle-class.... best in the world" part?

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Let's *assume* that to be true. For the moment. What do you think?

I'm trying to piece it together also.

[Scuba]

4. I think it would be a great argument if it were true.

In the absence of data, it's useless.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. But if the data backs that up, you agree, then? Yes?

Me too.

It's 99 degrees here today . With a humidity index of 199. I'm not getting myself "embroiled" in a "firefight" or "crucible" this afternoon.

Let's see what the class can do with the "data". ( My inclination is... it's true. I'm in NYC. No one in our leafy greens: e.g. Scarsdale, Bronxville, Ardsey, Rye, Rockland, Nassau, etc. is talking about school "reform" and busting unions. Not that I ever heard of, anyway.)

And yes.. they're all unionized w. pay scales and seniority rules. So....what gives?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Diane Ravitch has written about this.

http://dianeravitch.net/2012/05/06/are-test-scores-the-point/

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/04/bad-zoning-can-ruin-your-kids-life/1804/

http://researchnews.wsu.edu/society/169.html

[Scuba]

13. Thanks, saving for later.

[4th law of robotics]

5. That would seem to put the blame on the parents

for poor performance.

Probably not entirely unfair in a lot of cases but it won't be a popular opinion and it won't be something that can be easily fixed at a national level.

[fascisthunter]

7. poverty and its cultivation of many detriments

right now, there's an excess, and it's being ignored, so things will get worse nationally.

[4th law of robotics]

9. Education level of the parents

and marital status are two huge indicators of academic success.

Also both associated with poverty.

[fascisthunter]

11. you'll see a greater number fail academically in poor areas than...

well to do ones. SO many factors are involved with wealth and the lack of. Try studying for a test after only having a small9non-nutritional) meal. It's a sad state. I live around poverty...

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. If we remove the lower income kids from the data, our kids are ranked in the top 3

And that's only fair since the countries we are being compared to only test their college bound kids.

[4th law of robotics]

10. That is another key factor in this debate

We measure all our kids. Some other countries are a bit more selective.

Perhaps we should put a greater emphasis on trade schools for certain students rather than college.