Are you old enough to remember pre-Interstate roads? If so, I have a question.

[raccoon]

Do you remember any state/county, etc., roads from that time that were like the Interstates, in that there were two two-lane roads,
one going in one direction and one in the opposite direction?

I expect there were some in the larger cities, at least.

[Systematic Chaos]

1. I just found you a treasure trove on Wikipedia!

Didn't think they'd go into this much detail, but enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_divided_U.S._Routes

[raccoon]

23. Thank you! nt

[lpbk2713]

2. New Jersey Turnpike comes to mind.

And Florida had several, mostly in the more densely populated areas.


And there were parts of Route 66, US 1 on the east coast, US 301 and others.

[monmouth]

5. Prior to the Turnpike, South Jersey North, Route 9. It made for a danged long ride so my

brother and I started off punching each other over red cars, we attempted to use coloring books, Pop stopping along the way for a cold beer. From South Jersey to say...Montclair....Two-day trip, stop-over in Freehold. That part of the state (eastern part) got the Garden State Parkway..Made for a great trip, still does.

[RC]

3. Not where I lived and I helped build a part of the interstate East of Bismarck ND.

[Newsjock]

4. Many of them

For example, here's a chapter from a new book on the history of Dallas-Fort Worth freeways, which includes hundreds of pictures, many from the pre-Interstate era.

http://www.dfwfreeways.com/QuickView/ChCentralOriginal?StartOdd=True&PdfSize=20%20MB&PdfFile=06_central_expressway_original_20120624_PRELIMINARY.pdf

This one is from 1949:

[CTyankee]

13. Oh, thank you for that pic! Growing up in Dallas, the Central Expressway was legend.

I'm also old enough to remember when Love Field was the Dallas airport. My father was a huge supporter of both commercial and general aviation and my parents both knew Tom Braniff. Those were the days...

[CTyankee]

6. Yup. I lived in north Texas and we traveled to Oklahoma quite a bit. OK was something of a joke

to us Texans, because Texas had already gotten a state highway system up and running and OK did not. So we would get to the state line and the pavement literally stopped and dirt roads lay ahead...

My family was very proud of my uncle, who was a state senator most well known for his advocacy of a modern state highway system. He was a good Dem all his life. And the people of the state of Texas grew richer as a result of having such a system early on. That, and aviation, made modern Texas. Everyone benefited economically from the prosperity of the time.

[Nevernose]

9. And Texas had a university system

That was the envy of, and a model for, the rest of the nation until the Shrub was elected governor.

[CTyankee]

12. My cousins all went to UT (I guess Austin was the only campus back then).

My uncle was Judge (and Senator) Ephraim Davis of Brownwood. I loved him and my aunt so much and spent summers with them. My father was a Republican but even he admired him.

[BlueToTheBone]

11. I was going to say, that's the

difference between Dems and pukes. OK was run by crony capitalism and the people were treated like trash and now completely act like it. The pukes took over TX in 90s w/KKKarl and co; but it looks like it might be coming back.

[bigbrother05]

33. It was into the 80s before OK went totally Red

Had a couple of R governors, Bellman and Bartlett who later became Senators, and the Tulsa area had a R congressman, but Oklahoma was reliably Dem for a long time.

The difference in roads was mostly due to the oil and gas money. Also Speaker Sam Rayburn and majority leader Lyndon Johnson made sure lots of federal dollars, think NASA and Military, came their way too.

Before the interstates, the turnpikes were the only limited access, divided highways in OK.

[jtuck004]

37. The Democrats in Oklahoma didn't think Texas was important enough to put much

effort into roads there, so most of the effort was put into roads that began to connect what used to be "Indian territory" to the rest of the Nation. Route 66, the connection through Oklahoma between Chicago and LA., actually started as a wagon trail in the 1850's, iirc.

Funny anecdote - when they finally did start building roads to the South, Texas once tried to blockade the bridge across the Red River. OK sent the national guard into Texas to open it, and the courts finally settled it..

Poor Texans never have gotten over that...

To be fair, Texas was annexed over 50 years before Oklahoma. They, like other states, ran their native people's onto concentration camps in Oklahoma so they could grow cotton (with slaves) and cattle - so it should be noted that "everyone", especially people of color and native peoples most certainly did not share in that prosperity. Most of the road growth in Texas was concerned with getting people to East Texas, and between San Antonio and Mexico, until the railroad came along to move crops and cattle.

The reason there was not much road development in what would become Oklahoma back then is because there were very few white people in the areas North of TX. What changed it all were the oil discoveries in the early 1900's, and, of course, cars. It was those oil discoveries on concentration camp lands that brought wealth to some of the native people's, and death to a few.

[CTyankee]

40. Yes, there was plenty of prejudice there when I was growing up and I went to segregated schools!

The prejudice was the major reason that when I went East to school I never returned to Texas to live. It was considered "not done" to leave Texas and my family was in a snit over my departure. But I couldn't stand the segregation and the economic subjugation of black and brown people.

Dallas was emerging during my early years. There was a significant (at least to me) emigration of people from the North coming in, as Dallas was growing in its financial industry. Among my yankee friends were the kids of restauranteurs and accountants. But yes, largely all white. That, however, has changed. Dallas, which I could barely tolerate at one time, has now gotten a handle on culture and diversity.

But I prefer CT...

[jtuck004]

43. I lived much of my life (so far, anyway) in Oklahoma City. When they started

busing students to force integration of the schools in the early 70's, I can remember black kids huddled in a Dairy Queen (are DQ's in the East too?) while the white parents stood around and pushed their kids to attack them, rock their buses. Lots of police and fire trucks...I dropped out, got a GED, and joined the Navy. Much of that has moderated with time, and people do live together more, but that separation is still there, regardless of whether on is in Oklahoma, Texas, or any place else in this country.

(If they only knew what we know now, maybe they could have gotten together and recognized their real enemies, put banksters in the Dairy Queen. Would have saved us all a lot of misery. Lost opportunities...)

I remember wondering back then why the difference, because we had just as many native people in the school, why they were ignored and blacks were attacked. I finally realized they didn't even see the "indians", who had only begun to realize the need to fight and the new rules. By decimating their population, keeping those that survived in concentration camps with a steady supply of alcohol, only pulling a few to learn and then only the "White Man's Education", (which taught them that their people were "savages&quot the native people were kept, in many ways, behind black people who had been learning to read the European English for many years.

We moved to Eastern Washington about 8 years ago after I pestered my wife for 25 years to move someplace cooler. We had never been here, it just sounded like a nicer place, and it is (though they are as hard at work to change that as any city). I have been halfway around the world three times (short stint in the Navy), and of all the places I have been there are more nice days and nights around Spokane than any of those I can remember, so I can empathize with your CT preference over TX.

But I like short hot summers and warming around the wood stove in winter.

[CTyankee]

47. I have nothing against Oklahoma but I heard plenty of negative stuff growing up.

I haven't been back to Dallas since spring of 05 when my mother died. That pretty much closed the chapter on Texas for me. I've learned some interesting things since then such as the RAF training camp in Terrell (I think there was also one in OK and one in AR) that was briefly there in the run up to WW2. My parents had a friend who claimed he had "flown with the RAF" which they thought was a total fabrication, but now I think the guy was telling the truth!

My father loved aviation but his terrible eyesight ruled him out as a pilot. TX was in love with aviation in those days (the heyday of Braniff) and saw it as key to growth, as TX is so big.

It's a different world up here in CT. We have the cold weather you like and February ain't too much fun, altho last winter was easy compared to the one before. Since I have kids and grandkids up here (and in L.A.) I'm pretty much home. I like my city, New Haven, because of the cultural amenities due largely to Yale.

Eastern Washington sounds beautiful. I've never been to the state. Sounds likeyou have a nice life there!

[jtuck004]

48. They told the same stories about Texas North of "the river" - just changed the names.

I REALLY miss having a real doctoral granting public research university nearby, and perhaps the best example of public vocational technical schools in the nation. And the zoo.

It's funny, I always thought OK was too right-wing and backward, still gripped by small-town think. Then we moved here. Yikes.

I sure am glad we have the Internet. And Libraries

[rurallib]

7. Not out here in the hinterlands (Iowa)

If we wanted to see anything so modern as a divided highway we had to go to Chicago or Des Moines.
But getting there could be a slow miserable (no AC) ride.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Plenty Here In And Around Chicago...

This is the origination point for Route 66 and the Dixie Highway and those roads are still around in various alignments. There are also divided highways from before the Interstate system...Route 41 was one of the first divided roads built in the 30s.

Google around and you'll find all sorts of sites dedicated to old roads...and I enjoy driving them...

[HooptieWagon]

18. Yes, US41 in Florida was divided 4 lane

From Tampa to Venice (in the sixties), north and south of that was mostly 2 lane. I dont know how it was north of Florida.

[Old Codger]

10. I do recall

Roads in Minn. that were actually 3 lanes, there was a center lane that resembled the left turn lane we now have that was called the "passing" lane, cars from either direction used it.
Thinking about it now sounds really crazy but it was there.

[Sherman A1]

20. I recall roads like that

I believe the 3 lane roads had more than their share of accidents.

[Homer Wells]

39. I remember it being called the

Suicide Lane!

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. The first section of the PA Turnpike opened in 1940

[CTyankee]

17. Here in CT we have the beautiful, architecturally exquisite Merritt Parkway, built in 1938.

The overpasses are delights of architectural design.

Quite an interesting history here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merritt_Parkway

[HooptieWagon]

15. Yes, there were divided highways back then...

The heavier-travelled highways near and thru cities. Few were limited access, though, so there were traffic lights. Rural highways were mostly two-lane. Passing was tricky. High accident rates for the amount of traffic. And the accidents were often fatal... head on collisions, poor or none safety restraints, non-collapsing steering columns. Drivers often speared by steering column, passenger went through the windshield. Cars then were similar in weight and power to today, overall size a bit larger. Brakes were 4-wheel drum, often without power assist. Handling was pretty bad.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Sure, like Route 66 and what we called 3C highway in Ohio.

[DearAbby]

19. The LINCOLN Highway...Route 66

I remember traveling from Nebraska to Colorado, using the Lincoln highway. Highway 30

[Sherman A1]

21. I do recall

traveling from St. Louis to Springfield, Il and having to stop at stoplights on the Interstate at I believe Litchfield, IL

That was interesting.

[MineralMan]

22. Sure. There were many divided highways

before the Interstate system. Los Angeles had lots of them, some which became part of the Interstate System. Same thing was true in most major cities. But, a few miles out of the city, and that ended in a lot of cases. The Interstate Highway system made high-speed vehicle travel for long distances a practical thing. I remember making a cross-country trip in the mid 1960s. It took a lot longer than it does today, but it was a lot more interesting at the same time. Now, we speed past communities that used to be important parts of auto travel, and miss a lot as we hurry to our destinations.

In the past few years, I've been planning routes for trips that bypass the Interstate system for at least part of the trip. It's like going back in time, for sure.

[kentuck]

24. I remember pre-Interstate 75..

My uncles used to drive Hwy 25 north from the hills of Kentucky to Detroit Michigan. It was a two lane road. The speed limit was 55 mph but you could drive 60. It took about 8 hours to drive it.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Live Right Off The Old Route 66

It's now Illinois 53. For a 20 to 25 mile section, it's a 4 lane divided highway. It becomes two lane as it runs through my town and the next couple of small towns. Then, it goes back to a divided highway for the next 50 or 60 miles. Beyond that far south, i'm not sure. If i'm going that far south, i use I-55.
GAC

[malthaussen]

26. Eastern PA turnpike oldest "superhighway."

... and they haven't fixed it since they opened it.

It was also unique in that it turned a profit for many years.

-- Mal

[leveymg]

27. The Merritt Pkwy, a 4 lane divided highway in CT dates from the 1930s

Last edited Wed Jul 18, 2012, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Still one of my favorite roads - lots of hills and relatively tight turns. Lots of fun in the right car when traffic is light.

[snooper2]

28. I'm old enough to remember ONE two lane road..

Or was that one ONE lane road, you had to take turns in the dirt when a car approached

[newfie11]

29. route 66 was my home town

We moved so much and in those days there were no interstates. Many many trips on 66. New Mexico to California etc.

[kentuck]

31. Do you remember Hwy 666 to the Navajo reservation in NE Arizona?

I remember listening to the Navajo radio station going thru there.

[newfie11]

36. yes

It went up to Shiprock. We lived in Farmington at the time and went that way to Gallup.

[kentuck]

45. Yep.

That's it!

[ryan_cats]

30. Turnpikes on the East coast

As has already been mentioned, there were turnpikes on the East coast.
There's the Pennsylvania TP.
The NJ Turnpike and one I can't remember.
This is in the middle to late 60s.

I remember when highway 50 was turned into a freeway in Sacramento. It was kind of cool while they were building it. I also remember they were building a freeway across Nevada but you still had a bunch of 2 way traffic and had to go through all the little towns. Highway 50 across Nevada was a two lane deserted road but it got you where you were going. I drove across it in '98 and it didn't seem to have changed.

[CanonRay]

32. What is now I-55 Chicago to St. Louis

We took it when I was a kid.

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. The Taconic State Parkway in NY was one of the earliest I believe

"divided highway" is the term you want (in British parlance, "dual carriageway&quot .

[raccoon]

46. Thank you! nt

[1-Old-Man]

35. Sure, there were toll roads all over the place and most of them still exist

There were multi-lane toll roads, state turnpikes mostly, all over the country that were just like today's Interstates, and in fact many of them became part of the Interstate system as it developed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Yesterday we were in the real backcountry

covering a news story with my editor. We took the 4x4 since the roads are like many roads I drove or rode an Ambulance in TJ... ok they are nice dirt, two way roads. That was what the east county looked like for decades, and where some of the east county still looks like.

[pinboy3niner]

41. Get your kicks on Route 66

[RebelOne]

42. I am old enough to remember there being no interstate highways whatsoever.

When I was a child, I would go with my parents to Philadelphia from Miami and drive U.S. 1 all the way up the coast.

[Vinca]

44. I remember the excitement at my grandmother's house in Bellows Falls, Vermont

when the new Interstate finally opened. At long last Gram's shopping trips south to Brattleboro would only take 20 minutes travel time rather than an hour. It was a great time to be a kid.