Penn State football could get the 'death penalty,' NCAA chief says

[Poll_Blind]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-penn-state-death-penalty-20120717,0,3948281.story
[div class="excerpt" style="border: 1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom: none; border-radius: 0.3846em 0.3846em 0em 0em; box-shadow: 2px 2px 6px #bfbfbf;"]Penn State football could get the 'death penalty,' NCAA chief says[div class="excerpt" style="border: 1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top: none; border-radius: 0em 0em 0.3846em 0.3846em; background-color: #f4f4f4; box-shadow: 2px 2px 6px #bfbfbf;"]NCAA President Mark Emmert said the "death penalty" was still on the table in regard to the punishment the NCAA will give Penn State for its handling of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

In an interview with Tavis Smiley on PBS, Emmert said, "I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again. What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide."

The NCAA is still conducting its own investigation and is waiting for Penn State's response to a report released last week summarizing the findings of a school-commissioned investigation by former FBI director Louis B. Freeh that scolded the university for not responding to reports that Sandusky sexually abused several young boys.

Only one other football program has been given the death penalty: Southern Methodist in the 1986, as a result of recruiting violations. The school was barred from competing during the 1987 season, all home games in 1988 were canceled, it was banned from bowl games and TV through 1989, it lost 55 scholarship positions over four years, the team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches instead of the typical nine and no off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988.

PB

[Spazito]

1. Why do they call this penalty the "death penalty"?

It is not a permanent penalty, it is time-limited so how can it be accurately depicted as a "death penalty"?

Disclaimer: Not a follower of football at any level so have NO knowledge of the sport hence the question.

[Bluzmann57]

2. Well, if they get the "death penalty"

The football program will likely never recover. SMU got it many years ago and that, in part, led to the demise of an entire conference. SMU has never ever been the same.
I think they got shutdwon for two years and they had to start from scratch. Death of football at the institution for two years, especially at a place like Penn State, could lead to the football program never being anything major ever again. And with the revenue football brings into Penn State, the entire athletic department will suffer and the university may well suffer financial loss too. The reputation is already stained, at least the football program.

[Spazito]

4. Thanks, Bluzmann, your explanation makes sense...

it's not the technical penalty that earns the "death" prefix, it is the long-term consequences.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. This is a difficult call.

As long as they cleaned out all the enablers, the next question is, what would this severe penalty do in the long run?

It could be used as an example for all other colleges. But if so, what message does it send?

Will it succeed in causing Paterno types to come out and turn in their associates? How could we know if we will achieve that if we don't fully understand the relationship between Sandusky and Paterno? Maybe Sandusky had information on Paterno that was as bad if not worse? From what I have seen from degenerate inside circles, you almost have to exhibit fluid morals in order to be allowed in. Which means they wouldn't have any compunction in bringing down an entire university with them if they got caught.

Taking down Penn State might make a difference only if good whistle blower protection is provided. One agency, one phone number. And I don't think it's the Paternos who will be making those calls, but the people who were victimized or the witnesses who feared their careers were in the hands of the people they would be turning in.

[FrodosPet]

26. As a U of M fan, and a moderate college football fan,

I hate the hit that Penn State and the Big Ten are taking over this. I feel terrible for the young men who put their faith and trust in Joe Pa and the people close to him.

And most importantly, a human being, I hate not only how these "esteemed" men have hurt the children that Sandusky (and who else?) raped, but how the catastrophe that has shaken Penn State will affect the students and alumni of the school. Resumes will be negatively impacted. People will be the targets of the cruelest jokes.

Hopefully, people can get past being stupid and directing the blame of what happened at innocent people. It is a kick in the heart to think about what these men did to a huge number of people. May there be no peace in the afterlife for these monsters.

[Baitball Blogger]

29. It would help Penn State if their students and alumni would stop showing so much

reverence for Paterno. I think it's that kind of mindset that is inspiring this kind of severe penalty.

[hughee99]

33. They're not going to do it, they just want to put it out there that it's still an option.

It's just PR from the NCAA. If they clean out all the people involved, they won't go with the death penalty.

As far as whistle blower protection goes, there isn't much they can do. Most of those "in the know" would be coaches. If you get the reputation as someone who "can't be trusted" (even if you blew the whistle for good reason), the next job you apply for may think twice about hiring you. There's not much the NCAA can do to correct that.

[Baitball Blogger]

34. There was at least one guy who wasn't a coach yet, wasn't there?

[hughee99]

35. They can maybe help out a little bit, but it's really the same story.

They can likely protect you from losing your current job, but there's not much they can do if you decide you want to work at another school. Especially in the athletic department, so much of the evaluation is completely subjective that they can avoiding hiring a candidate without outright saying that they don't trust him.

Whether it's a coach, assistant or staffer, it's the same sort of thing.

[Hugabear]

38. SMU and Penn State are completely different situations

SMU was only shut down for 1 year, and remained on probation until 1990. By that time, the conference they belonged to (Southwest Conference) was already beginning to unravel. Arkansas left in '90, with other teams like Texas and Texas A&M leaving a few years afterward. SMU then began drifting through various minor conferences such as WAC, CUSA, and will be joining a depleted Big East next year. It's also worth noting that prior to mid-80s, SMU hadn't really been a major force in football.

Penn State, on the other hand, is part of a very stable Big Ten conference, and has a much stronger history and tradition than SMU did. While a "death penalty" would be a severe blow to PSU, they would be in a much stronger position to bounce back than SMU was.

[Bluzmann57]

39. And SMU tried to pay athletes simply to win games

Whereas Pennsylvania State had serious criminal violations occuring and certain higher-ups willfully covered crimes up simply because of "bad publicity" and possible loss of funding from boosters.
I agree that the Big 10 is much more stable than the old SWC but if PSU should get the "death penalty", they will not recover for a number of years. And imo, the Big Ten needs to throw them out and find another school (Boise State?) to join the conference. I also do not think that any of the above scenarios will happen and the NCAA will lose whatever little credibility they have left.

[Poll_Blind]

3. I don't follow football either. It's called the "death penalty" because of its so-called impact...

...on the athletic program it's applied to. There is definitely a feeling out there, expressed by the interviewer as a hypothetical, that Penn State is, essentially, "too big", "too important" to have such a penalty applied.

However, the crimes we're talking about are far worse, far more heinous, than any temporary damage to a beloved football program Not everyone sees it that way, though, which is disturbing IMO.

PB

[Spazito]

5. Thanks, Poll_Blind...

I agree with you in that "the crimes we are talking about are far worse, far heinous" and any penalty should reflect the seriousness of the crimes committed, both by Sandusky and those who enabled him as well as the culture that fostered both.

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. When the NCAA took SMU football

out of commission for two years it took them 20 years to rebuild. That is why they call it the 'Death Penalty.'

I doubt if PSU would take that long to get going again. It has a huge and rabid fan base. They belong to a major conference who I doubt would kick them out. If they planned that time wisely and hired the right people, they could recover a lot faster than SMU.

For those quoting NCAA rules to me, the NCAA is worse than NASCAR. They can and do interpret the rules in any way they wish. There is no rhyme or reason.

A recruit was going to visit my alma mater. His car broke down 10 miles from campus so he called the athletic department. They told him to wait. Then they called the NCAA to make sure giving him a ride would not be against the rules. That is how stupid and picky they can be. No FB program wants to cross them for fear of how they will rule in any given situation. This was one occurrence, but they check everything and other schools watch like hawks too.

[Spazito]

7. Thanks, Are_grits_groceries...

I hope the "death penalty" IS on the table otherwise what's the impetus for other universities and colleges to make DAMN sure they don't have the same culture and potential criminality in their organizations?

[Bluzmann57]

41. Yeah I know a former reporter from this area

This guy offered to buy some bottles of pop, let me repeat, bottles of pop, for a couple of local football recruits who were planning to attend the University of Iowa. The University happened to have a rep. there and he warned the reporter that something like that could be against the rules. Imagine, someone trying to do something nice for someone else and a governing body stepping in and saying no. Sounds familiar. Maybe like the U.S. Government, or at least repukes.

[Sgent]

8. It means the football program

is killed off. It can be resurrected, but it is completely eliminated for at least one year.

This means all coaches, trainers, and football personnel are fired (maybe they keep the groundskeeper). The athletes are allowed to keep their scholarships, but cannot play organized football or have a practice for the term of the penalty -- and are allowed to transfer with no period of waiting out.

The one time it was used it destroyed a conference, and SMU has never been the same. I honestly thought it would never be instituted again, but now I'm not so sure.

[FreeJoe]

36. I see it this way

A football team is sort of like a living organism. Each year, about a quarter of it dies off and another quarter of it is created. The team has a continuous existance, but with a high level of turnover.

When you give a team the "death penalty", you effectively kill off the current team. A new one can be born again later, but it will have lost most continuity with the past. In internal cultural terms, it is a new team. In practical terms, it will have to start over virtually from scratch to build a program. SMU still hasn't recovered.

I'll be surprised (pleasantly) if they give Penn State the death penalty. SMU and the other schools paying players were pushing up the ante for other schools. If paying kids for their work on football teams ever took hold, schools would lose lots of revenue. That must be stopped at all cost. Penn State's actions won't put other schools budgets in jeopardy, so it isn't as serious of an issue to the NCAA. Raping kids isn't a big deal to them, at least not compared to (gasp) paying them.

[Teamster Jeff]

10. The NCAA is probably also considering the public relations disaster

of protesters at every Penn State away game.

[TheMightyFavog]

43. Or guys in Pedobear suits looking to troll the Penn State fans

Not to mention the NCAA/Penn State's would have to have to work overtime to go after people selling tshirts with stuff like this on it:

[rufus dog]

11. In this case I think they should do something a bit different

Like forcing PSU to give three years of Football revenue to defined abused children charities in every region they play a game

[Marooned]

20. Doing that would kill off a lot of other athletics

that depend of football revenue to support them. In most major football universities football is the cash cow that funds all the minor mens and womens sports programs since most don't come close to be able to fund themselves.

[rufus dog]

22. Agreed

But so does the Death Penalty, they get no revenue AND kill off the other programs.

[KurtNYC]

12. But...but...but then Penn State would have to focus on ACADEMICS ?!

have mercy

[woo me with science]

14. Hmm...

So then the question must become....How do we make anthropology wildly profitable?

[HappyMe]

31. And stock the department with

molesters and folks that will keep their secret!

[marmar]

13. We'll see what the toothless NCAA ends up doing.

nt

[DURHAM D]

15. If the NCAA does not give Penn State the death penalty -

they (the NCAA) have no reason to exist.

[hifiguy]

16. Exactly. SMU didn't even do anything other high-profile programs

of the era =cough, University of Miami, Oklahoma under Switzer= didn't do. They were just sloppier and more brazen about it.

What happened at PSU is completely without precedent in its awfulness and genuine criminality.

[just1voice]

23. Correct, it says on the NCAA's "about" page

"NCAA History

Founded more than one hundred years ago as a way to protect student-athletes, the NCAA continues to implement that principle with increased emphasis on both athletics and academic excellence."

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/about+the+ncaa

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. My prediction: They'll receive a 2-5 year suspension from Bowl Games or Playoffs.

I doubt they'll be given the 'death-penalty' because that's just the way it is. Money Talks.

[DrDan]

18. not going to happen

they were not on probation for prior transgressions, so no "death penalty" in their future.

That is not to say that the penalties will not be severe - as they should be.

[roguevalley]

21. it could be out of their hands. it could be that the force of the outrage will

drive the penalty. given that this hinged on football -the coaches and the cover up- it would be relevant.

[DrDan]

28. I have no doubt the penalty will be severe - just not the "death penalty" imo

that requires probation

[Are_grits_groceries]

24. please read post #6.

The NCAA will morph the rules as they wish to.

[DrDan]

27. SMU was on probation - I don't see them changing that criteria

[Are_grits_groceries]

42. If they want to close the program,

they will find a way. It will be called something else under another statute or done by fiat from Emmert.
I don't think they will, but they are crazier than a s***house mouse. There is no way to understand or predict their rulings.

[DrDan]

44. interesting twist to this - apparently the Big 10 is considering dropping them from the conference

it would take a vote of 60% and is not very likely, but interesting that it is on the table.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

25. What? Focus on academics? Focus on education???

Get me my smelling salts!!!

[RobinA]

32. Comments Like This

are truly unfair to Penn State's academic community, which is considerable.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

37. I think they SHOULD spend it on academics, not football.

I'm not insulting the academics of Penn State. I'm sure they are excellent.

[obamanut2012]

40. I think that's the poster's point

Higher education's focus should be education.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

30. "Cowardly Lions" a collection of newspaper headlines

‘Cowardly lions’: Front pages reflect outrage at Penn State ‘enablers’

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/180785/cowardly-lions-front-pages-reflect-outrage-at-penn-state-enablers/