Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 09:54 PM Sep 2017

Is it insulting Bernie when we require him to fight for ACA instead of pushing progressive dreams ?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9599816
8 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
No - Bad timing of his Bill and lack of specifics on funding, cementing GOP to repeal Obamacare
6 (75%)
Yes
2 (25%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is it insulting Bernie when we require him to fight for ACA instead of pushing progressive dreams ? (Original Post) factfinder_77 Sep 2017 OP
Why don't you ignore him and support pelosi and other dems who are JI7 Sep 2017 #1
Are you serious...you think saving the ACA ...the only healthcare millions Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #4
Millions of lives are at stake no progressive should even have to be asked. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #2
It's insulting to ask this question, that I can tell you. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #3
Why do you require from Bernie what you aren't requiring from others like Autumn Sep 2017 #5
Why can't we do both? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #6
No shit. The premise is absurd. nt Lucky Luciano Sep 2017 #9
I don't understand CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #10
The either/or of the post was ridiculous. We can do both as you suggest. nt Lucky Luciano Sep 2017 #13
Jeeze, just that you even had to state the obvious is freaky. pangaia Sep 2017 #14
It's like we can't both breathe and sleep or something CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #16
Something is awry here, that's for sure. pangaia Sep 2017 #18
it is a hugely stupid talking point. Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #26
EXACTLY !! kacekwl Sep 2017 #28
When you present a plan for replacing the ACA...then you are saying it should be replaced... Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #29
Ok I'll bite. You're flat out wrong. CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #34
He is. So are all of the co-sponsors. It was explicitly stated during Medicare for All's rollout Arazi Sep 2017 #7
It's not the only one. pangaia Sep 2017 #15
But they still rolled out their owe replacement for the ACA...can you not see why this is not Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #30
100% disagree. It's exactly what's needed right now Arazi Sep 2017 #35
Do you realize he worked hard to get the ACA passed and even wrote some great addendums mucifer Sep 2017 #8
But still a replacement bull was offered which in my opinion makes it more likely the GOP will Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #31
Just a push poll. pangaia Sep 2017 #11
No. We all have "progressive dreams" but incrementally UTUSN Sep 2017 #12
Many Criticized Obama For Not Pushing For More &.... global1 Sep 2017 #17
False dichotomy Cirque du So-What Sep 2017 #19
I don't believe I have the ability to require Bernie to do anything fescuerescue Sep 2017 #20
No, not at all lunamagica Sep 2017 #21
I reject the absurd push poll. mythology Sep 2017 #22
We get it. Hell Hath No Fury Sep 2017 #23
Kamala Harris jumped on it flamingdem Sep 2017 #24
Or Kamala, Ed, Cory, Kirsten, Elizabeth... (n/t) SMC22307 Sep 2017 #25
No it's insulting to all Democrats GaryCnf Sep 2017 #27
Saying you support single payer eventually is not the samething as putting out a bill to replace the Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #32
Don't put any energy into it right now, then. Ms. Toad Sep 2017 #38
"Say what you want" GaryCnf Sep 2017 #39
Disagreeing with policy is not a vendetta. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #33
Nice push poll, dude. Ms. Toad Sep 2017 #36
I'll Pass G_j Sep 2017 #37

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
4. Are you serious...you think saving the ACA ...the only healthcare millions
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:02 PM
Sep 2017

have is a Democratic quest only? Medicaid goes down, pre-existing comes back, kids kicked off of insurance...no well care and poor people start dying...only Medicaid goes too so more die...this is a repeal bill. And ask yourself this. What Democratic numbers in Congress will it take to ever have any sort of healthcare again? It could be years...this is about saving lives and not giving up our one shot at universal coverage because if the ACA goes, I don't think we will ever get it...millions of lives are stake. That should be important to all progressives regardless of whom they support.

Autumn

(45,012 posts)
5. Why do you require from Bernie what you aren't requiring from others like
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:10 PM
Sep 2017

Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand, Sheldon Whitehouse, Brian Schatz, Cory Booker Jeff Merkley, Ed Markey, Mazie Hirono, Tammy Baldwin, and Richard Blumenthal ?

i haven't seen anyone suggesting that they aren't fighting for the ACA yet they signed on and are pushing those progressive dreams too. That's an insult in itself and a real obvious one at that.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
14. Jeeze, just that you even had to state the obvious is freaky.
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:33 PM
Sep 2017



I almost said the same thing elsewhere but...it just seemed too freakin obvious.



 

CherokeeFiddle

(297 posts)
16. It's like we can't both breathe and sleep or something
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:34 PM
Sep 2017

It would still be like 1845 if all we did is talk about 1 issue at a time and fought as such

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
18. Something is awry here, that's for sure.
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:48 PM
Sep 2017

Sarcasm , subtly, tongue in cheek.. too often missed by too many.

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
29. When you present a plan for replacing the ACA...then you are saying it should be replaced...
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 09:15 AM
Sep 2017

that you agree with the GOP in this if not how it should be replaced... We should never have done this. It was the wrong message to send during the fight to save the only health care we have...that millions need.

 

CherokeeFiddle

(297 posts)
34. Ok I'll bite. You're flat out wrong.
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 10:40 AM
Sep 2017

Single payer needed to be introduced. NOW.

The majority of American's want single payer and it is a very popular issue and I think after reading all your responses on several different threads that you are failing to see the bigger picture of what is all happening here.

This isn't just about the one dynamic of health care that is truly universal but goes a lot farther and is a whole lot deeper. As it stands right now today. we are less than 29% of the total electorate and millions have left the party. We have suffered massive losses in all sorts of races across the country on local, state and federal level. A full two-thirds of American's now say that our party is out of touch.

This is a midterm and 2020 issue and it is a lightning bolt to motivate and get people to the polls to vote in both those elections. Right now, it is one of the biggest defining issues for the American people who firmly believe that single payer should replace the ACA, and this is how you win elections.

You speak to the needs to the general populace. It has been said by many that our party doesn't have a message. Well guess what, here it is, clearly, loudly, and in your face that we DO have a message! The exact thing which motivates people to vote, the majority of which don't want something to vote against but VOTE FOR.

Under single payer, millions will be covered and this fight won't happen over night. It's a long process and one that will take time. It will continue even if Bernie's bill is defeated and is a conversation that has to start at some point, so why not now? The sooner it begins the better because we'll be digging our heels in for a long time over the battle for it.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
7. He is. So are all of the co-sponsors. It was explicitly stated during Medicare for All's rollout
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:15 PM
Sep 2017

This is a false and divisive meme. You obviously didn't listen to ANY of the bill's sponsors who said they're going to walk and chew gum - fight for the ACA AND work towards single payer.

Your OP is factually incorrect and divisive as hell just as we need to be mending this rift.

Stop. Please

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
30. But they still rolled out their owe replacement for the ACA...can you not see why this is not
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 09:18 AM
Sep 2017

helpful in the battle to save the ACA?

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
35. 100% disagree. It's exactly what's needed right now
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 11:46 AM
Sep 2017

Dems need great ideas to win over voters. Our party is shrinking.

We can and must do both - work to save ACA now and message "Medicare for all" for the future. Clearly there's a lot of Dem leadership who agrees with Bernie from John Conyers to Elizabeth Warren

mucifer

(23,521 posts)
8. Do you realize he worked hard to get the ACA passed and even wrote some great addendums
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:16 PM
Sep 2017

added to the initial bill?

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
31. But still a replacement bull was offered which in my opinion makes it more likely the GOP will
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 09:24 AM
Sep 2017

succeed. It says..."hey both parties believe in repeal" ...just not the details. The single payer bill should never have been offered at this time when we are fighting to save the only healthcare we have. How many won't call their congressman or Senator because they now are convinced single payer is around the corner if the ACA is repealed? But it isn't...if we lose the ACA, we are talking decades most likely before we get anything.

global1

(25,237 posts)
17. Many Criticized Obama For Not Pushing For More &....
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:37 PM
Sep 2017

settling for less when he was negotiating ACA. Many thought that he caved and gave up ground and that he should have been a more forceful negotiator.

Shooting for a Medicare For All (MFA) program now may not be the best timing. However, with MFA as the starting point it then seems more reasonable in negotiations for the other side to agree instead with improvements to ACA as a good compromise.

Once we have an improved ACA it can be used for the springboard to a MFA plan.

As much as I'd like to go straight to Bernie's plan I would think we'd need to take back the House & Senate in 2018 and then the Presidency in 2020.



fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
20. I don't believe I have the ability to require Bernie to do anything
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 10:51 PM
Sep 2017

In fact. He rarely calls me before making a decision.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
22. I reject the absurd push poll.
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 12:29 AM
Sep 2017

You take it as an established fact that pushing for this is inherently going to lead to not voting to protect the ACA against whatever the Republican plan is. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Sanders and all of the cosponsors are going to vote against the Republican plan.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
27. No it's insulting to all Democrats
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 08:08 AM
Sep 2017

when you think they believe that ANYONE but people engaging in an anti-Sanders vendetta is actually buying the idea that supporting the Medicare for All bill has any relationship whatsoever to fighting to preserve the ACA, much less that it is an either/or question.

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
32. Saying you support single payer eventually is not the samething as putting out a bill to replace the
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 09:28 AM
Sep 2017

ACA. Who doesn't support universal coverage? But right now we need to save the ACA...and say what you want...we put out our own replacement bill when we offered the single payer bill...we signaled we want replacement too. Hardly a good idea during what should be the fight to save the ACA and healthcare for millions.

Ms. Toad

(34,055 posts)
38. Don't put any energy into it right now, then.
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 12:21 PM
Sep 2017

It's that simple.

Bills are introduced all the time that go nowhere. Once they grow legs, put your energy into them - or not.

For now my daughter needs you to put your energy into fighting the ACA repeal efforts, rather than trashing a bill that keeps an idea in the public eye - but is not going anywhere at the moment.

There are people who are not aware the repeal ACA effort has grown another head. Promote efforts to call and oppose that, rather than bemoaning the introduction of more than 1000 bills this congress - most of which are introduce to promote ideas, rather than having an expectation they will go anywhere in the near future.

I'm directing this specifically to you, since I see you spending a lot of time in these threads bashing the introduction of a bill that has zero chances of going anywhere soon, rather than (or at least more than) rallying the troops to oppose the ACA repeal. Just ignore the Sanders bill - giving it so much attention only feeds the chances that it actually will detract from the immediate need to repeal the ACA.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
39. "Say what you want"
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 12:45 PM
Sep 2017

Is exactly what you and the other opponents of this bill have to back up your claim that it hurts our efforts to repair and save the ACA. In other words, it's an opinion, nothing more.

The ACA will, with Trump in the Whitehouse, crash and burn. As far as coverage for people who were left out of the insurance market, read: "the working poor," it was mortally wounded when the Supreme Court upheld it solely under the federal government's taxing authority AND declared the Medicaid payment incentive unconstitutional. It was then crippled when Red State governments refused to expand Medicaid and did not get punished at the polls for it for it. As for the insurance companies, reluctant "partners" at best from the start anyway, it became a "no go" the minute Marco Rubio killed the pools. As written, the ACA was one of the most remarkable bills ever passed and, as passed, would have worked without excluding the very people it was designed to bring into the fold of "the insured." With a brilliant president like Barack Obama patching it through executive order and if we could have turned some Red States turning into Blue States, the ACA's primary goal of expanding coverage for medical expenses to people who lacked it before could have still succeeded even with these wounds. We don't have that. The working poor, already suffering from the double blow of not getting covered by Medicaid (as they were supposed to) and not being eligible for subsidies (which they were not supposed to get under the ACA because they were supposed to be covered by Medicaid as the bill was originally written) are going to be crucified when Trump executive orders replace Obama executive orders.

When that happens, what will we run on? Can you fit the explanation why it's Republicans' fault that people are hurting (which it CLEARLY is) into a 60 second campaign ad?

On the other hand, with Medicare for All as our calling card, our ads become about us filling in the gaps for everyone and (if Republicans DARE to repeal the ACA outright in the face of that being our goal) them wanting to make the gaps even bigger. As it is, they get to point to the failures they have already gotten away with creating (which I described above) and the only thing we have is "we're for more of the same" unless someone comes up with a way to saddle Republicans with the blame they so richly deserve for these failures, but which they so effectively parried at the time they were creating them

THIS is why all three of our putative frontrunners for the 2020 presidential nomination and practically every rising star in our party stand proudly behind this bill. THIS is why after years of being relegated to the back bench by the vast majority of House Democrats, John Conyers now has over 110 co-sponsors for his single-payer plan. THIS is why even the architect of the ACA says single-payer's time has come.

It's not only a just policy, it's also great politics EVEN IF IT DOESN'T BECOME LAW UNTIL WE TAKE BACK OUR GOVERNMENT.

This is also why I question the motives of people who are doing their very best to make sure it never sees the light of day.

Ms. Toad

(34,055 posts)
36. Nice push poll, dude.
Sun Sep 17, 2017, 12:12 PM
Sep 2017

There is nothing wrong wtih doing both. The immediate need, obviously, is to make sure the ACA is not repealed - but long term, there is nothing wrong with having proposals for single-payer in on the table.

The insistence that progressives can't walk and chew gum at the same kind is insulting.

I called the senator whose vote will make a difference on Friday, and will continue to call him, to urge him to vote no on Graham-Cassidy. I also support the introduction of fixes (bipartisan or otherwise) to the ACA, single payer, medicare for all, universal care, and other progressive plans that are the only way to permanently dismantle the current insurance system that will always be pushing for bills that line their pockets - which means excluding my daughter for coverage. I'm just not actively working on them right now because the threat that ACA will be removed is more immediate.

See how easy that is?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Is it insulting Bernie wh...