democrats might ignore trump voters to our peril

[clu]

yes, 80% of republicans (that's a wide net) support trump - this is no surprise. IMO some of those 80% are rich/misinformed/family ignorant or sheltered. I would guess that less than half of the trump supporters are outright racists. Considering the number of whites in the US, under these assumptions maybe 30% of them are racists. other conservatives are exposed to them as friends and family members and they exchange ideas among each other, maybe in an insular area due to where they live. this link outlines trump's republican approval rating and it's shows 76% approval, but it may be outdated. what about the 24% that disapprove or have no opinion?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/02/politics/trump-approval-new-low-quinnipiac-poll/index.html

conservative media has an overreach in the US. stories of gun violence are given a lot of coverage in some media (breitbart maybe), while other stories get little coverage at all (some white guy went into NY with a sword and stabbed an older black man - I think I read about it only here, but I don't read daily beast or whatever).

speaking as a POC (i'm Mexican in Tx), i have also seen instances of prejudice. however, in a political climate of having to deal with some republican racist and *non-racist* voters (and politicians!), consider that some of them have valid (yet personal) concerns about tax policy. they also have concerns about where that tax money is spent. this is the state of affairs. dems have to be able to debate with them and maybe even concede a little in order to get our policy started.

i read a little about the some medicare proposal in another thread and the concensus is that it would never be passed. maybe that's right but also maybe after 2018 we lose enough seats for an actual attempt at privatizing SS. dems need to regain as much power as possible now. i'm commenting in another thread about which issues are more prominent - social or economic? take a moment to consider this statement: the powers that be will use social factors (racism) to perpetuate their system of economic injustice. that is not stated well, and maybe i need to read a little and rephrase it. how many whites died on the side of the union in the civil war? there is no division or infighting here. dems are on the side of justice. POC please remember that a 40 year old today grew up in a time with parents who could remember segregated areas (at least in TX). remember the extent to which racist behavior is learned, and consider that fact when deciding which strategy to apply to the democratic party.

if the democratic party is ham-handed about introducing racial justice legislation the RW establishment will jump on it and use it as a wedge tool. that doesn't mean I don't support social equality legislation. on the contrary i'll take it a step further and claim that a reparations law should be considered where means-tested blacks should be given free access to college. in the meantime, please at least keep open a discussion *against* RW strategy. I am not peddling RW smears i am only outlining their opinion as i see it. maybe i'm ignorant - what social justice issues require legislation today?


edit: please note i am not suggesting courting trump voters - only instead to lead with public policy that makes sense to the deceived trump voter. i believe some outwardly strong social legislation (C16 bill in Canada) will allow them to be duped - again!

[Me.]

1. This Again?

unrecce

[clu]

5. yes it is this again

is it phrased PC enough now? i didn't have time to elaborate yesterday (i had to turn in for work that night). is there anything you disagree with in the OP? instead should i fall into a debate about some people who might be so socially malleable/influenceable that yes - they don't want to label as a democrat?

[Me.]

6. Then Why Would They Vote For A DEm

And you do understand you are posting this on the Democratic Underground. Yes?

[Bradshaw3]

2. Dems need every voter they can get

They have to employ smart strategies and that includes reaching out to blocs like the Obama/drumpf voter that could put them over the top in taking back the house, senate and government. Writing off segments of the electorate out of spite will only lead to more repub control of government.

[clu]

3. Obama/Sanders/Trump voter indeed

they are out there, and some are on our side, but it's unpopular to label yourself a democrat. maybe you work with blacks at a decent job and don't evaluate racism as it affects some blacks.

[Me.]

4. "it's unpopular to label yourself a democrat"

Since when

[Afromania]

8. what?

Yea, that would be racism as it affects all African Americans. The time would be better spent collecting votes of those that either didn't vote, couldn't vote or were duped by 3rd party candidates that pushed the idea they weren't really functioning arms of the republican party.

Courting the "I'm sorry, but not sorry" Trump voters will only result in 'maybe' picking up a few fickle voters who'll readily stab us in the back when the next Fox approved snake charmer comes along.

If these people are actually real, which I seriously doubt. These would be the same people that proclaim voting for Obama while simultaneously putting Republicans in at almost every other level of government. Thanks, but no thanks.

[clu]

12. "better collecting the votes... of those who were duped"

is exactly what i'm talking about. i'm saying if we make the focus about race (while justifiable), we might not be as effective as if the focus is about class

[Afromania]

21. the entire platform focused on class

Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:34 AM - Edit history (2)

the alleged "duped" trump voters were too busy listening to populist nonsense with no details to read up on anything we put out there. The problem with being overly bombastic is that at some point you have to actually DO something meaningful.

These voters need to learn that the devil is in the details and the details bare out that they are being screwed by the people they vote for. They live this reality every single day and somehow ignore it. They have instead voted in republicans to their local and state governments and keep being kicked in the head.

Meanwhile, they are being fed that my people and your people are the problem. They choose to ignore the obvious and take the pap fox-infotainment serves up for them. Trump, and the republicans, are unabashed liars promising their voters the moon while giving them contaminated swamp rock instead.

The only way to reach those voters would be to outright lie to them. Tell them things will improve instantly without them changing any of their behavior. Tell them industries that the market has pushed to the brink of irrelevance can make a come back over cheaper and more efficient means.

Tell them that its so much cheaper to run a factory in a 3rd world nation that the only way those factories come back is if the product price increases by a factor of hundreds or that their pay will be well below the minimum wage. Tell them that they can have every single thing they want without compromise, change or pulling themselves up by the same boot straps they insist everybody disadvantaged pulls themselves up by. I'm not ok with with our party pandering to people that won't listen unless the candidate is being bombastic with zero substance.

By doing that the only thing you end up with a shallow electorate that will vote its' self away without ever knowing what they have truly voted for. Just like they already have and will probably continue to do. As for the actual 3rd party voters. They were the only ones duped in the 2016 election and there may be some hope for them.

[JHan]

61. wish we could rec posts +++++++++

[Me.]

20. Excellent Points

[WinkyDink]

48. What. The. Hell?

[WinkyDink]

47. If people don't know what the Democratic Party has done for them, FT (the "T" is for "Them").

[Bradshaw3]

58. Feel better now?

Yes it feels so good to say fuck them. Does that help to elect more Democrats in 2018 and 2020? Probably not and as the op said that kind of thinking will likely lose people who have voted Democratic in the past. But so what if repubs stay in power? Fuck them. And all the people they hurt with their policies, right?

[WinkyDink]

59. Oh, whatEVer. What I'm sick of is this onslaught of redundant threads by trolls.

[SunSeeker]

7. Totally disagree.

It is idiotic to waste our campaign resources on a bunch of racist ignoramuses who are not even Democrats. We need to get our own people out to vote. Pandering to Trumpanzees will only alienate our base and depress Dem turnout.

Republicans would love it if we did what you're suggesting.

[clu]

11. note the edit to theOP

edit: please note i am not suggesting courting trump voters - only instead to lead with public policy that makes sense to the deceived trump voter. i believe some outwardly strong social legislation (C16 bill in Canada) will allow them to be duped - again!

[moda253]

22. They don't understand public policy

They are a bunch of racist deplorables. If they can't figure out that the devil is stealing their souls what the hell are we going to do to convince them without turning off our own voters? There's no kinder gentler version of the KKK, of Nazi's, OR THEIR SYMPATHIZERS!!!!

Jesus ^$&%ing christ there is half the country that doesn't vote. spend the time, money, and energy on THOSE people.

[SunSeeker]

27. Exactly. nt

[kcr]

44. If progressive legislation made sense to a Trump voter, they wouldn't be a Trump voter.

Which is why many of us can see through the argument. We know that "reaching out to Trump voters" means moving to the right. We're not stupid.

[WinkyDink]

49. Uh....We're not Canadian.

[hamsterjill]

9. I'm willing to take the risk.

What, exactly, is a deceived trump voter? I'm not seeing any of them myself. Every one that I know in Texas who voted for the dumbass still thinks he's doing an awesome job. "Leading with public policy" is not going to do anything for these idiots because they don't feel duped, they don't want to think, they only do what others like them do, and they are deplorable to begin with or they wouldn't be a Trump voter.

[Eliot Rosewater]

34. Thank you. And the few who really would now switch their votes, dont need

to be talked into not supporting a vile piece of shit racist and his party.

[hamsterjill]

45. Exactly.

And in my neck of the woods at least, there are very few of those.

Enjoy your evening!

[ismnotwasm]

10. Ignore?

The Democratic platform is available for all to peruse. Democrats are holding town halls all over the country. We are introducing legislation based on our platform. We are trying to counter the damage this administration is inflicting in real time.

I don't understand what you are suggesting. What could Democrats possibly do further for Trump voters? They have made their choices very clear.

[clu]

13. i am responding to some who seem to claim

that social justice issues should take absolute precedence over economic justice

[Me.]

17. You Think They Should Take A Back Seat?

Seriously? And as far as I remember, it has been pointed out time and again that 45 voters earn, on average, somewhere near $70,000. and up.

[Afromania]

25. social justice is economic justice

Last edited Tue Sep 12, 2017, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

For instance, women are earning less than men. They are increasingly becoming the family bread winner. Is it fair that they earn less for their families because of their gender? No sorry Timmy we can't put away money for your college fund because mom earns 20% less than she would have otherwise.

Despite having credentials similar, or better, than their counterparts. Jose and Kawan routinely have their resumes tossed in the trash. Not only does that effect the earning power and bottom lines of those communities. It also promulgates mediocrity for those on the other side of the equation as their efforts are buffered by increased leniency.

Hell, it could be as simple as everybody paying their fair share of the bills. That includes corporations who like to use personage to their advantage. If they would take care of their responsibility to us and the country. The public wouldn't always have to shoulder extra taxes and fees for everything out the ass.

Those companies don't nickle and dime us to death because they have to scrimp and save to pay their taxes. They charge us because at the end of the day the 1% running those fuckers are beholden to pay dividends to the the other 1% that own stock and approve their loans. Maybe if they would take a little less. Not much, just a tiny 3 or 4% of their wealth beyond wealth. The entire country would be better off no matter the color.

[clu]

31. im mexican

and for a time it was hard to get tech interviews but i do OK now and again, several co-workers in my technical field are black. how can we legislate women's earnings? i'm open to ideas. what i'm saying is that it should be obvious that democrats are on the side of democratic justice. of course we can debate and pass good legislation (Obama DACA). what i'm saying is that dems should be aware of middle of the road centrist concerns and frame some aspects of the debate around them.

there is a huge crime problem in poor/non-white areas and we're getting beat over the head with that. the only way to fight this is to prove that some poor people make it out, that the situation is generational for poverty and crime (how many generations since blacks and women could vote?), and that we don't need laws to "make other people more fair" to bring this about. i stated in my OP i'm for free college for means tested blacks as a means of reparations. social justice is economic justice but the way to campaign on one versus the other is different.

you think the other suggested method in this thread (fuck trump voters they're all racist) will work? good luck i'll believe it when i see it

[Afromania]

37. "(how many generations since blacks and women could vote?)"

Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:42 AM - Edit history (1)

That's my point in a nutshell. Women are still underpaid because the people at the top hire who they want, which means they will hire people like themselves when given the opportunity. That's going to mean male and white most of the time.

First up, I don't reparations from the government in any form. I don't want anything except for certain swaths of America to simply leave me alone. I'd like to be able to send up my resume without abbreviating my middle name because it's too "black". Let's be honest here in that good deal of white America(and yes all trump voters) this is a problem. It's not my problem that I just want to be left alone on an equal playing field. It's their problem that they refuse to do the only thing they need to do is to see me for me without bias filters on; needless to say that they don't. Fox news won't let them, their associations won't let them and their politicians won't let them.

The easiest thing they could do for me and for you was to not have voted for trump. To not think it's ok to keep kicking that can as to why they can't use words like "nigger" and "spic". To not say hey, Jose and Kawan shouldn't have moved an inch or uttered a word when that police officer pulled them over while asking questions and insisting on a license that was in a wallet located in an inside a pocket. Sympathy, empathy, compassion and tolerance cost them nothing, and yet they refuse to employ it at every turn.

So yea, in short, fuck trump voters. Either they get what their own is doing to them and come to the table of their own accord or we are all going to burn together when the 1% gets their next slice of flesh from Lady Liberty.

[Skidmore]

63. You can't put a dollar sign

on civil rights. Money helps only compensates to a point. Past that point it rests on shaping attitudes and behavior. It doesn't matter how much economic justice you have achieved if a person can shoot you because he didn't like the color of your skin and never be charged because Sessions justice system agrees. All the economic justice in the world makes no difference if you can be sexually assaulted by your boss and be publicly humiliated by the perpetrator. Witness Trump's treatment of women. You don't aside from social justice issues to pursue economic justice alone.

[Me.]

39. What You Said

[Eliot Rosewater]

35. They most absolutely should and as long as I have ANYTHING to say about it, they will.

[mcar]

41. I believe we Democrats are capable of walking and chewing gum

at the same time. That's why our platform can handle lots of issues.

I think Independent are capable of that too.

Trump voters, if they are disillusioned, are welcome to join us. But we are not going to kowtow to their idiot racist sexist selves to do so.

[WinkyDink]

50. They would be....? Oh, the ubiquitous "some."

[ismnotwasm]

54. Economic justice cannot exist without social justice

So, I'm still not seeing your point

[gollygee]

14. You think only 30% of Trump supporters are racist?

They're all either actively racist - they wanted to vote for Trump specifically because he is racist and they liked that - or they're passively racist - they're perfectly fine with voting for someone who is racist.

And from what I've seen, most people who voted for Trump like his racism more than anything else about him.

[clu]

15. nope i said 30% of whites

[gollygee]

16. Hmm I don't know

First, it depends on how you define "racist." Like, people who were specifically excited to vote for Trump because they saw he was racist and they wanted someone racist to become president?

I think there's another group of people that weren't excited to vote for him because he's racist, but who are fine with racism. I think all of Trump voters are in one group or the other.

[clu]

18. can't argue that

maybe they are fine with racism. maybe they grew up with it, or maybe their attitude is due to personal experience (it happens to some). whatever the situation is, they are not completely stupid. if the dem party chooses to focus on race/social justice without being willing to have an honest conversation about entitlement spending or other RW concerns (note i am very far left and any discussion of SS/entitlement tightening STARTS with raising the SS taxable income cap and defense spending changes), i think we're getting set up by fakenews/fox news/AM radio to get slandered in the press, with no real response since the loony right (who the "average right" might listen to due to exposure) doesn't trust the MSM they trust breitbart so their debate has been hijacked

[JHan]

62. You think these people care about those things?

You really thought that the core of republican support for Trump was because of entitlement spending?

When Trump descended on that escalator and made his announcement , he pressed on impulses that were nurtured among republicans by RW radio and Fox News etc etc for over a decade. Here was a man who was finally "telling it like it is" as far as they were concerned. It's why he beat his numerous challengers in the primary.

People don't really vote policy, they mainly vote on cultural signifiers - never was this more evident in early support for Trump. They have no problem with spending, what they want is the government to prioritize spending on them and them ALONE.

It's not a question of "maybe" - Race had a lot to do with it, and there's more than enough data out there proving this to be the case. For all the absurd claims of identity politics in the Democratic Platform, Trump played white resentment and grievance politics all year last year.

But since you wish to reach out to these people, how about you riddle me this:

How do you appeal to people who willingly vote for those who make their lives worse? Who vote for representatives whose votes facilitate the rapaciousness of predatory industrialists: who despise renewable energy initiatives, as extractive industries pollute water systems and wreak havoc on their landscape.

How do we explain voters on state disability and medicare, who complain about poor service, while voting for representatives who implement service cuts and vote against healthcare expansion? They depend on healthcare access, will complain about co-payments, while also complaining about tax-and-spend liberals - the same liberals who want to make sure they have greater access to health services. In the same breath they complain about service cuts, they'll say they LOVE the idea of Trump's wall - not thinking of the cost to the taxpayer because Mexico ain't paying for no wall. When you scratch the surface, their complaints about liberals are that people of color get the same benefits they do - not the benefits themselves, not the "Idea" itself.

Liberals lost the meme wars and this has to do with how our message is disseminated. Not the message itself. There are ways to address this, but what you don't do is throw your base under the bus in some misguided attempt to lure in voters who relish Trumpian politics.

[LexVegas]

19. Fuck 'em. nt

[Me.]

23. The MOst Perfect Answer Of All

[Eliot Rosewater]

36. & the horse they rode in on AND the dirt on their floor!

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. I'd rather lose than cater to a bunch of racist assholes. They, and the people who try to minimize

their evil, and suggest we court them for their votes, can kiss my black ass.

[Squinch]

26. Gosh! Finally someone is raising this issue!

[SunSeeker]

28. LOL

[Scurrilous]

33. LOL

[onecaliberal]

29. Stop voter suppression and there will be way more than enough to win.

[ATL Ebony]

56. Agree 1000%

They know and are showing the world that they can only offer failed policies. Run on that and without gerrymandering then it's a done deal for Dems everytime.

[Trust Buster]

30. Did we chase those Dems that fell for Nixon's Southern Strategy ?

No, we welcomed the thinning of the racist heard in the Democratic Party. This is merely a 2nd purge of these fools. Good thing to do every generation or so.

[kentuck]

38. Probably more likely...

Democrats will ignore the Bernie supporters?

[bettyellen]

40. "What social justice issues require legislation today?" Educate yourself before lecturing us to take

A back seat. Seriously sad to read you have no clue.

[JHan]

60. +++++++++++++++++++

Yes, no clue.

[mercuryblues]

42. NO. just. NO

We had a candidate with a solid economic plan. Backed by economists. They soundly rejected it in favor of that piece of orange shit because he is going to Build a wall and lock her up. You know what trumps plan was for the economy? "It's going to be great. trust me" <----that was it in its entirety. IOW they can give 2 shits about the economy and fucking proved it with their vote.


Dems need to stop coddling and patting the trump voters. To attract them to vote Democratic they would need to lure racists, homophobic, misogynists into the fold. You know how to do that? Campaign like trump did.. Dems do that and I am gone. See they would lose their base to attract a few racists, misogynist, homophobes.

Every time the Democrats lose an election the cry goes out they are too progressive, they need to move further to the right. FUCK THAT SHIT. IF Dems don't SUPPORT and push for equal rights and social issues, no one will. Civil rights will be legislated away. FUCK ThAT shit. I don't want trump voters, they are hateful fuck faces. They would just as soon condemn people I love to death based on who they love, the color of their skin, and many more frivolous reasons. FUCK THEM. You want to try and convince a trump voter to vote Democratic, go ahead. Tell me how that works out for you.

[onecaliberal]

51. That + 10000000

[LenaBaby61]

53. "Dems need to stop coddling and patting the trump voters.....

To attract them to vote Democratic they would need to lure racists, homophobic, misogynists into the fold. You know how to do that? Campaign like trump did.. Dems do that and I am gone. See they would lose their base to attract a few racists, misogynist, homophobes."

[atreides1]

55. What he said!!!

[WinkyDink]

46. An original topic! AWESOME!

[LAS14]

52. K & enthusiasticly R

[Atticus]

57. Three words: male bovine feces! nt