Okay, I'm going to admit that I really can't make heads or tails about this "Antifa" thing.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Last edited Wed Aug 30, 2017, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I had never even heard the term "Antifa" until after Trump was elected.

I know it stands for "Anti-fascist" which is a pretty self-serving and obvious statement for what I hope would be the vast majority of the population.

I've been told that Antifa is either a) the front and center organization for leading and mobilizing the anti-Trump resistance and we should forever be in their debts or b) morally equivalent to neo-Nazis and worthy of condemnation.

Frankly, I don't know if I really believe either account. To be honest, I don't know the extent to which Antifa actually exists.

Is it an actual organization? Are there local chapters? Do they have weekly/bi-weekly meetings? Are there donuts and coffee available at said weekly/bi-weekly meetings?

I find the whole thing weird, almost as if Antifa exists mostly as a strawman for angry conservatives on social media who are desperate to find some sort of hedge point against right-wing white nationalism.

Is anyone who takes the time and effort to go out and protest Donald Trump now "Antifa"? I know they're anti-fascist, so by that virtue, now they're Antifa? And because there have been incidents with self-proclaimed "anarchists" and/or Titushky at Trump protests, they get attributed to "Antifa" which then in part gets attributed to any one who could possibly oppose Donald Trump?

But what do I know? I'm still told by all the conservatives on social media that anyone left of John McCain is a devoted disciple of Saul Alinsky who pledges fealty and loyalty to all of Alinsky's words and thoughts and teaching, all of which we've memorized by heart, that is if I could actually find anyone on the left who actually has even read Alinsky (as I myself have yet to do).

The only thing I definitively know about Antifa is that lots of people like to talk about it, but no one seems exactly sure as to what exactly it is.

[RKP5637]

1. Thanks for asking this question! I was wondering some things too. n/t

[vi5]

2. They are not perfect....

They are similar to the occupy movement or even Black Lives Matters in that they are not completely organized and have no specific leaders. But Antifa have been around longer and not just US based.

I lived in PA in an area and scene where there was a lot of right wing, neo nazi and kkk violence. I knew antifa members before I'm sure most of the people on here had ever heard of them. And I had some of them protect me and help stop people nazis from beating me up, and others as well.

Not monolithic, hardly organized. And yes, some loose cannons.

And like those other groups, the Republicans and right wing media are looking to create false equivalency. And it seems like many on here and in the Democratic party are more than happy to enable them in peddling this narrative.

Congrats to those folks.

[RKP5637]

8. That's what I was wondering, "Republicans and right wing media are looking to create false

equivalency." When I've heard the media discuss Antifa they sometimes cast it in a negative light, like they are the instigators against the peaceful Nazi's, etc. Although I don't know a whole bunch about it, I'm glad Antifa exists! I really get fed up with the RW thinking it's their right to trample over everyone.

[matt819]

3. I think you're my alter ego

Whenever I'm thinking of something but decide not to post, there you are with the post I might have written.

I'm inclined to go with the RW creation of this strawman, along with the non-existent alt.left, as a counterpoint to the alt.right and actual, for real fascism.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. So you have me doing all the heavy lifting for you, eh?

[matt819]

20. Absolutely

And thanks.

[underpants]

4. Some background and the little that I know

I asked for DU'ers opinions on Antifa - I'll see if I can find that thread.

Basically they are Black Bloc anarcists who are trying to gain credibility by latching on to the left. These are the same people you saw tearing up Starbucks during WTO meetings. Latching on to the left also allows for more fundraising. I'd be willing to guess they've also been infiltrated at this point.

Personally I don't think violence or destruction gets anyone anywhere.

Oh and "Alt-Left" was created by hipster Nazi Richard Spencer to create a false equivalency.

This Rolling Stone article gives a good history in them. They basically started in Minneapolis to battle the skinheads way back in the day. There are small local chapters.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/antifa-and-the-alt-left-everything-you-need-to-know-w498420

[anneboleyn]

7. underpants thank you for this -- my memory was the same (but not as detailed!)

[underpants]

10. See post below yours

Some good old fashioned DU opinions and insight.

[underpants]

9. Here's my thread asking about DU opinions. Some good info here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029464336

[RKP5637]

11. Thanks!!! And especially for the link! n/t

[LAS14]

17. Thanks! This is the kind of post...

... that keeps me coming to DU. I've been Dmailing people to find out if there are other places that I can supplement my addictions, since DU is getting to be so overwhelmed by Trump rage. I'm enraged at Trump too, and agree with all of them. But I don't want to be addicted to Trump rage.

[yardwork]

21. Not all antifa are black bloc.

People tend to lump antifa in with anarchists. They aren't the same.

As far as I can tell, the current incarnation of antifa grew from the occupy movement. It's a very loose group of people, definitely not centrally organized.

Not all antifa are violent.

[anneboleyn]

5. To me, it seems like a straw man for white supremacist groups to attack (and CODE as "black")

They constantly link BLM and "antifa" together. If anything it seems very ad hoc -- people who subscribe to certain twitter feeds who show up to protest jackasses like Richard Spencer. The violence seems to come from anarchist groups (who've been around in different forms for a long time) who thrive on the chaos.

[Warpy]

6. They're kids spoiling for a fight.

It's why I tell any counter demonstrator to have an exit plan. If the shit starts to fly, melt away down side streets and alleys, just get the hell out of there and meet up later. Leave the battle to the ones who came looking for a fight.

[RKP5637]

12. Very wise words, Warpy! n/t

[lamp_shade]

13. I can't either, Tommy, but thanks for starting this thread. I'm learning.

[DURHAM D]

14. My conclusion. I think they are anarchists.

Also, many of them are paid to work undercover... some for Homeland Security and some for KKK/Nazis.

[CottonBear]

25. I believe they are agent provocateurs. N/T

[Not Ruth]

15. "I'm talking about stomping on Nazis BEFORE they gain any power"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9534211

There are a few antifa here (people are antifa, Philosophy is Antifa) that you can ask. I am not one.

[Not Ruth]

16. Of course you can watch Antifa on Facebook

Antifa on Facebook

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9522750

A discussion of who they did or not not vote for around the 27:30 mark

[LAS14]

18. Thanks! this is the kind of post...

... that keeps me coming to DU. I've been Dmailing people to find out if there are other places that I can supplement my addictions, since DU is getting to be so overwhelmed by Trump rage. I'm enraged at Trump too, and agree with all of them. But I don't want to be addicted to Trump rage....

This is a carbon copy of my reply to Underpants in this same thread.

[oberliner]

22. They have been disrupting G7 summits

And other similar events for many many years (like WTO gatherings).

[toddwv]

23. That's because "Antifa" is a movement, not an organization.

There are a bunch of autonomous groups loosely based around the concept of "antifa". It's actually a movement that began in Europe in the 1932s and was revived in the 80s-90s.

Antifa tend to be anarchists anti-government and anti-capitalism. Thus they don't particularly subscribe to any single political party, tend to refer to favor socialism and communism.

Their main goal seems to be to counter fascism directly and if necessarily, forcefully using "Black Bloc" tactics.

They are not one group and definitely aren't one voice.

Black Bloc protestors after Obama's inauguration in 2012:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. A greater question would then be whether their prominence is being overstated.

In that anyone protesting Donald Trump or white nationalists is lumped into "Antifa", and in turn "Antifa" is in turn being lumped in with the smaller and more provocative "black bloc".

Are we really seeing three different entities at play here, which is being characterized by the pro-Trump crowd as one entity defined by the most radical of the bunch?

[wiggs]

29. Right. The same way Fox prominently investigated the evil New Black Panthers (two people)

for their poll-blocking efforts in the 2012 elections.

Their formulas for scaring their base work over and over and over...just the names change.

[Not Ruth]

24. Do you watch Timeless? Have you seen Terminator 2?

The people in Timeless have time machines, so one "villain" goes back in time to save his family by killing just about anyone that might have lead to his family being killed. The greater good, end justifies the means, etc. If you knew that a kid would grow up to be Hitler, would you kill the kid? A theme also explored in Terminator 2. course the challenge is the domino effect, whereby killing the bad guy does not always lead to the desired outcome. An issue which Terminator 2 failed to successfully address.

Antifa is trying to stop something like the Holocaust part 2, by any means necessary. They have been fighting the Nazis for close to a hundred years. It is a never ending battle between good and evil.

Of course they are misunderstood. So was Sarah Conner.

https://www.facebook.com/SoMEAntiFa/posts/1821543191447445

[Trust Buster]

26. The antifa meme is bullshit. They are a loosely unorganized band at best.

In the wake of Charlottesville, right wing media was desperate to create a false equivalence so the FOX's and Breitbart's went "antifa" 24/7. Now that is all their puppet bots can seem to talk about. Bannon and Hannity know their bots will buy any crap they sell. The End.

[stevil]

28. Antifa trace their roots to pre WW2 Germany.

Back then there were groups like Iron Front who fought nazis in the streets, Iron Front was the militia of the Social Democratic party. They were banned as the Nazi party took began its foothold. Most of us would have have sided with them back then. Yes they were violent.

After WW2 (not sure exactly when) Antifa groups started to form, loose groups of, well - anti-Nazis. Not nearly as organized as their predecessors but effective because of strength in numbers.

Black Bloc are not really a part of this, they just show up to break windows and fight the power, often targeting police. I wouldn't lump them in with Antifa as part of the whole package. They just show up.

Antifa are protesters that hit back and yes, often strike first. And when you are staring someone in the face who would gladly throw you and your family in an oven it might be difficult to control the impulse.

In Europe they can draw some impressive numbers and are often non-violent.

Some larger chapters hold meetings but they are mostly loosely organized. A group from Pennsylvania might put out a call for support to regional allies.

They are not perfect but I would stand with them if Nazis ever came to my town.

[ecstatic]

30. Same here. Heard of it for the first time after Charlottesville. nt