Are Antifa paid by the right wing?

[Initech]

I swear literally every rally we have anymore, they show up to stir shit up. And then that gives the Trump trolls a new excuse to bash us 24/7 on social media outlets. They can't be everywhere, can they? And we know that Trump trolls own a number of web sites linked to Antifa. I feel like we're being set up. They're pulling this shit right now on Twitter - if you search the news for Berkeley, it's all from right wing trolls, and it's all Antifa bashing, and its all negative toward liberals. And of course most of the negativity is linked to those fucking assholes Posobiec and Cernovich. Am I crazy to think that the right is setting us up to fall for their traps? Someone please help me understand this!

[guillaumeb]

1. COINTELPRO, Part II?

All part of discrediting the opposition and inciting fear.

[Initech]

2. We all know that Infowars sponsored that horrible CNN Is ISIS contest.

So I wouldn't put it past them.

[Initech]

4. I just feel like we're being setup.

Antifa is the party guest nobody asked for, or wants. But the Trump trolls are out in full force tonight which makes me wonder if we're being setup again.

[Lunabell]

5. Not all antifa are violent extremists

Literally, anti fascists are a loosely organized group.

[fallout87]

6. Not all of them

But what kind of reputation do they have as a whole on the national level?

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. When they wear headgear and black "uniforms", how are they loosely organized?

Who is supplying them with transportation to events and the confrontation gear? Who is funding their efforts? Eh? And if any get arrested, who is financing their bail and legal fees?

Political instability can be sufficiently maintained by the use of agent provocateurs. They provide the rationale for a police "crackdown" on violence. These tactics are part of the conventional toolbox for fascist dictators everywhere and in all of history. Yes, the media establishment falls for it EVERY TIME. They become part of the problem.

[stevil]

40. Not sure if you are serious or not

[Lunabell]

44. This:

Not my meme, so excuse the "Learn some basic politics you fucking idiot".

[lunasun]

7. After the Berlin Wall fell they had a resurgence in Europe but thier history goes back further

As the far right began to rebuild in the wake of German reunification, expressed in shocking mob attacks against asylum-seekers in several eastern provinces in the early 1990s, Antifa increasingly became a movement unto itself: a national network of dedicated antifascist groups organized into the “Antifaschistische Aktion/Bundesweite Organisation” (AA/BO)
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/antifascist-movements-hitler-nazis-kpd-spd-germany-cold-war

Antifascism has surged to the fore of debates on the American left under Trump’s presidency, and many of the tactics and visual styles of the German Antifa can be seen emerging in cities like Berkeley and elsewhere.

Some argue that with the arrival of European-style neo-fascist movements on American shores, it is also time to import European Antifa tactics in response.

Factions are not uncommon in many European countries

Why are you paying attention to the complaints of alt rights like Cernovich ?

[Initech]

9. I don't but they do seem to be dominating social media.

I was looking at Twitter for any information I could find about the Berkeley protest and the right wing trolls dominated the discussion once again. All it was talking about was how horrible Antifa was. Not a single thing about *WHY* they were protesting, just that Antifa sucks.

[lunasun]

12. Anti fascist groups would suck to Rw facists . Plus they hate antifa for being successful

occasionally like in In CA, where rw facist Milo canceled speeches at various universities due to antifa, so now the rw are going to keep up on making them the public enemy , not the rw group assembling to give hate speeches .
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/facism-alt-right-activists-trump-milo-yiannopoulos

[radius777]

24. exactly, and most Antifa protests you see in Europe

are peaceful, usually lots of young people marching with banners, etc.

without Antifa there to protect/defend - the less physical protesters would feel fearful to be out there with neonazis/fascists - and we all know that law enforcement/cops/military are often on the fascists side, and will look the other way if the fascists beat up/kill a PoC or left-leaning protester, etc.

In a perfect world there'd be no need for violence - unfortunately we don't live in that world.

[lunasun]

25. That's why i posted a few links with Antifa European history . Most of the

antifa support oppressed populations . IMO they actually gained a larger presence in the US after Ferguson .
They were a backlash of the of the far right white power growth that really began in the wake of BLM esp. Ferguson .

There were reports of antifa stopping some Nazi beatings of POC in VA.
The police response there that day lacked and I do think if the police had been more proactive and used force stopping Nazi violence then the antifa would have had no role in the matter.
But the police didn't and looked the other way so

[radius777]

45. yes, Antifa is simply a muscular response to ethno-terrorism.

As a MoC I respect anyone who has my back.

Oppressed groups are under attack, cops/authorities are right wing, white liberals are pacifist - so what are vulnerable groups supposed to do? Accept being intimidated, beaten, etc?

Now, I'm a mainstream Dem and don't agree w/any of Antifa's fringe elements, nor do I agree w/initiating violence.

But as far as they (or anyone else) stand against fascism, and are willing to defend vulnerable groups, I see that as a noble act.

[lunasun]

47. Same here

[politicat]

31. Because Russian bots want you thinking that.

The data is solid. Track it here: http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org

This week's top themes:

Unrest in the United States was front and center for Russian influence operations on Twitter this week, as users in the network sought to amplify alt-right alarmism about the left-wing Antifa (short for anti-fascist) movement. For consecutive days, the most-tweeted link in the network by far was a whitehouse.gov petition to declare Antifa a terrorist group. In addition to pushing hashtags and a direct link to the page, stories about the petition were the most-retweeted over the last 24 hours by two different Twitter accounts for Russia today, while the RT-affiliated Ruptly pushed video of a fight between neo-Nazis and Antifa activists in Berlin.

Don't buy what they're selling.

And no, Antifa activists, including those who use Bloc tactics (which is a tactic used across political movements, right and left) are not paid. Most are scraping by -- adjunct academics, students, low wage jobs, motley collections of side gigs.

Think about it: look at how well the USNazis and militia movement is armed. They don't grow those weapons and trucks and armor from seeds. They buy them, with disposable income. They have the time and money to create uniforms for themselves, and the leisure to wank about the design. That says they've got funding -- either their own or from some donor.

Antifa? Really look at them. Yes, they're all in shades of the same color, but it's not uniform. They're clothes I bet you've got a pair of black pants, a long-sleeved black shirt and a hoodie/hat in your closet, or you can acquire those at a thrift store for under $10. That's why Antifa Bloc tactical groups use black. Because it's cheap and universally accessible. Please think, don't just emote and react.

If you see a group all in black, all in the same black garments... then consider they may be disrupters, because someone is funding and organizing them.

[Initech]

33. Should have figured Russia was behind this nonsense.

[Expecting Rain]

8. We liberals should disassociate from violent minded protesters.

These folks do us harm and feed the interest of while nationalist, Nazis, and Donald J Trump.

We make a tragic mistake if we don't denounce their violence.

Not allies.

[Initech]

10. I agree 100% here.

Anyone who shows up to a rally wearing ski masks and carrying crowbars is not looking to join hands. And that goes for the III% and the Oath Keepers as much as it does Antifa.

[GulfCoast66]

11. Why would you think that? You do not think the left can be as shitty as the right?

Antifa is made up of anarchist and the true communist and other anti-social forces. I see them as the leftist version of white nationalist...willing to and want to use violence on the streets. Sure, they claim not to be racist, but who knows what they actually want. I suspect liberal democracy is not on their agenda. Remember that there was pretty serious terrorism and bombings committed by the left in the 70's and 80's in Europe.

We should condemn them and not march with them. When they show up we should shout them down. They are the antithesis of the MLK message.

Some here on DU support them because they fight against Trump supporters. But I am reminded about looking into the abyss too long and becoming what you see.

Have a nice evening

[pnwmom]

13. Clint Watt gave Senate testimony about Russian active measures

being behind some of these protesters.

And I think his testimony should be taken very seriously.

They are seeking to sow divisions both on the left and the right, and they will do what it takes to accomplish this.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/clint-watts-testimony-russias-info-war-on-the-us-started-in-2014

[Initech]

17. I feel like we're being setup by the right to fail.

I honestly felt like today's rally was a trap to lure out Antifa so that the clashes could ensue. Almost like the right wing Oath Keepers / III%ers / Proud Boys wanted Antifa there so they could beat the shit out of each other, then go whine to social media about the "violent left" and the "loony left" (neither of which exist). The best way to stop a troll is to ignore them, but when a group like this shows up to beat the shit out of them, not only is it counter productive to our argument, but it helps them grow their numbers.

[GulfCoast66]

19. I do not disagree, but keep in mind

They are not being set up and they are the violent left which do indeed exist. And Antifa types are no more committed to liberal democracy than the goon they fight.

In my mind they are two peas in a pod separated by semantics.

At big protest liberals need to shout down the Antifa types as much as they do the Nazi types. MLK would have insisted.

[Initech]

20. Yeah I feel Antifa is counter productive.

Anyone who shows up to peaceful demonstrations with ski masks and crowbars definitely isn't there to join hands.

[Fluke a Snooker]

14. Antifa exposed the GOP for the Nazi scum that they are to everyone, not just progressives

I'm good with Antifa doing what they do, as long as we can take advantage of the political fallout to ensure that we get more voters, sicken average people to the Republican Party as a whole, and fundamentally transform this country. After all, President Obama said it best...with regard to Republicans, "GET IN THEIR FACE!!!"

[Initech]

16. It must upset the Nazi snowflakes that we're getting in their face!

[burrowowl]

18. Me too!

They go back to the Lincoln Brigade. I am surprised at the number of DUers who are so ignorant of history.

[GulfCoast66]

21. Cut the condescencion shit. We are not ignorant to history.

We just think the thugs on the left are not much better than those on the right.

And BTW, how did things work out for the Lincoln Brigade? Franco would be laughing at your post.

[Expecting Rain]

22. Me too, but not in the way you think.

Antifa's violent street battles with Nazis in the 1920's and 30's helped the Nazis come to power while they helped destroy the liberal political center.

Shame we don't learn anything from history. Ignorance will cost us.

[Fluke a Snooker]

42. Big difference betwen the opposition groups

Antifa fights real nazis, the extremists within the Republican Party.

The Brownshirts were fighting communists, which by and large we support more than Republicans. I doubt that Antifa will lead to a Nazi state in the U.S.; quite the opposite, they are trying to PREVENT one.

[Expecting Rain]

43. Antifa helped Hitler and the Nazis come to power in Germany by creating chaos in the streets and

by undermining the political center—attacking liberalism especially.

It is a bad model to follow and one that only gives the Nazis and their sympathizers (like President Trump) political cover. Antifa plays into their hands.

As to supporting communists, who is the "we" here? The Democratic Party has a long tradition of being an anti-Communist and anti-Fascist party. That rejection of totalitarianism on both extremes is in keeping with liberal values and the historical tradition of the Democratic Party.

[geek tragedy]

15. Black bloc thugs wanna get their thug on nt

[radius777]

23. ANTIFA is neccesary, force must be met w/force.

Antifa came about in Europe to counteract the rise of violent ethnonationalism/fascism.



Lets face facts here, pacifist liberalism is viewed as weak/stupid by the fascists, who simply beat them up and/or intimidate.

Antifa puts their asses on the line to defend people.. they are there essentially as muscle, a defense force against terrorists, which is what fascists fundamentally are.

In Charlottesville, Antifa saved many from being killed/beaten to death by the Nazis... the vice mayor Wes Bellamy even stated as much.

Antifa is not neccesarily violent as a movement, it really includes anyone, of any political viewpoint, who stands against fascism. It is the so-called 'Black Bloc' element of Antifa that are more physical.

[Oneironaut]

36. lol They're defending our freedoms by starting fires and vandalizing businesses.

That'll show those Fascists! Fight the machine!

The adults showed up in Boston. I don't want goofballs with handkerchiefs covering their faces being the face of our party.

[Nevernose]

46. Who will speak for the garbage cans?

Who will stand up for the broken windows of Starbucks?

FYI: antifa were all over Boston, too, they just didn't have anyone to fight.

[radius777]

48. Who will stand up for PoC against ethnoterrorism ?

White apathy/complicity allowed Trump to be elected, police are right wing, white liberals are pacifist - so who will protect PoC/vulnerable groups from being intimidated/beaten/killed by the fascists?

Enter Antifa. While I'm a mainstream Dem and don't agree w/their fringe elements, as a man of color I'm grateful that somebody is at least putting themselves on the line to protect and defend the vulnerable.

[SweetieD]

26. Yes I think this is 99 percent a right wing creation.

[Willie Pep]

27. No probably not.

Most of them seem to have fantasies about being Weimar-era street fighters and these far-right rallies and other events give them occasion to act on these fantasies.

I am guessing that most Antifa people are young and get involved in radical politics without thinking about how their actions hurt the causes they are trying to support. They should know that the Right loves the image of hooded and masked leftists fighting and causing damage to property and generally making a mess of things. It allows the Right to use the "both sides are just as bad" card which tends to take heat off of fascists and it also fuels the right-wing conspiracy machine. My Republican relatives are all obsessing over Antifa now.

[Initech]

37. I'm sure we could say the same about the III%ers, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys.

They get involved in radical politics without thinking about it or considering the consequences of their actions. But if the 18 - 25 year olds are joining Hitler loving fringe groups because they get it from their parents, where do the Antifa people get it from?

[Kablooie]

28. Oh God. The worst of the 70s are back.

The Weather Underground and Symbionese Liberation Army have been reincarnated.

Violent left wing groups are not new and history condemns them just as violent right wing groups are.

[Lee-Lee]

30. When you see arrest reports for any of them do a little reseatch

Google the names. Look at previous arrest history and their social media.

They are not right wingers and most have a history of the same kind of violence and destruction as a form of political action before under different monikers- Black Bloc, Stop G20, etc and have a history of this same kind of action at your various WTO/G20/May Day etc protests.

You can't just write off everyone who does things you don't like as a right wing plant. That kind of cognitive dissonance doesn't help anyone.

[Initech]

38. The right wing accuses George Soros of paying everyone they don't like.

He's public enemy number one to the right. But the difference is there's that, and then there's this:

http://www.salon.com/2017/06/03/infowars-launches-200000-contest-to-pay-fans-wearing-cnn-is-isis-t-shirts-on-tv/

[alarimer]

32. Democracy Now had an interview with a professor about this movement

It goes back 100 years.

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/16/antifa_a_look_at_the_antifascist

[Oneironaut]

34. Nope. They're just total idiots.

They know daddy will come bail them out of jail and make the charges go away.

[salin]

35. I found this article from Mother Jones very interesting

and was a bit surprised that my hometown was a focal point for the small group being covered. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/anti-racist-antifa-tinley-park-five/

To answer the question, no, I don't think they are plants. The description given in the article may not explain the motivation of all involved, but it does give a snapshot - and it doesn't involve being rw plants.

[jalan48]

39. They are helping establish a false equivalency between violence from the right and left.

What will we say when right wing protesters start using their guns or clubs at protests by non-violent, civil rights protesters? The left doesn't have the same gun fetish that the right has and unless we are we willing to arm ourselves we will lose, badly.

The end result of Antifa violence is the silencing of peaceful voices through the escalation of violence. For this reason I think Antifa, at least in part, is a right wing ploy.

[applegrove]

41. There are paid trolls all over the internet creating strife between democrats.

They like to create and maintain wedge issues. Of course some leaders of the black bloc are paid by the GOP. Rule of thumb should be if you are not showing your face you cannot demonstrate.