The Trump folks have found their "bad guy" in the Houston flooding.

[oberliner]

The Mayor of Houston - who is a Democrat - is being attacked by the right for not evacuating the city.

So they have their person to blame for anything bad that happens as a result of the storm.

He also happens to be African-American.

[TheMastersNemesis]

1. Of Course We Knew It Would Happen.

No practical way of evacuating all those people. Where would you put them. The outlying areas do not have the resources. And it would take weeks to position resources.

[oberliner]

2. I remember when they blamed Nagin for Katrina

Getting Bush off the hook.

[Honeycombe8]

58. Nagin did drop the ball on that. Doesn't let the others off the hook.

But I don't give him a pass. He did almost nothing. Didn't even line up transportation buses to take people out.

[Honeycombe8]

62. Oops. Duplicate.

[Angry Dragon]

4. Solution: Trump to use Trump planes to evacuate people and put them up in Trump hotels and

golf courses

[dalton99a]

7. +1

[Ken Burch]

22. AFTER making them pay in advance. In cash.

n/t.

[bluepen]

5. Lane reversals on highways, start a few days in advance.

For those who can't afford it, close inland schools to use as shelters, use school buses to bring evacuees.

This is done in many places. Not hard to figure out.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. see? easy peasy

[bluepen]

41. As easy as an ad hoc rescue plan for 6 million.

[ProfessorPlum]

72. if only you had been in charge

[bluepen]

85. That's the standard you apply to anyone who

has a negative opinion about how an organization handles something? Doubt it. Very useful in lieu of any constructive dialogue, though.

[ProfessorPlum]

97. .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029523091

[Hortensis]

25. 6+ million people, evacuation RECOMMENDED, just not mandatory.

And the vast majority of those living in flood-prone parts of the metro area knew it and made their own decisions, didn't need daddy government ordering them out of their homes.

Turner said at a press conference Sunday that as bad as the situation in the city is, putting millions of people on the roads would have been worse. He said the city had learned its lesson from past events. In an earlier interview with the Houston Press, he recalled the chaos that a mandatory evacuation order during Hurricane Rita created in 2005, when people died of heat exhaustion on the highway and had to be rescued during the immense gridlock.

I suspect finding "inland" schools and libraries for the vast population you want the government to order from their homes might be just a tad difficult. And then there are the often very serious, sometimes insurmountable, problems many would have finding and paying for shelter within several hundred miles. Roads with flooded dips as waters rose would have been full of stranded "evacuees" who couldn't go forward or backward, like in 2005. Some people couldn't leave because of fragile relatives, some would have taken those with them and hoped for the best.

Sheltering at home is best if possible. That's not hard at all to figure out--just put on your "what if it were me" cap for a few seconds. And note that even a few thousand emergently evacuated from rising waters would be a tiny, tiny fraction of 6.3 million, most of whom are in their own homes, with power and water on through most of this so far, watching the events on TV like the rest of us.

Of course, by far most of those who chose to stay but whose homes are no longer sustainable are now evacuating themselves.

[uponit7771]

59. +1

[George II]

70. We're talking about millions of people.

[Dustlawyer]

74. Hindsight is 20/20, but an unnecessary evacuation is expensive and very disruptive.

This storm grew very fast beyond all forecasters expectations. There was no time once the danger was recognized. It would have been much worse catching everyone stuck on the highways.

[defacto7]

3. Their most trite tactic... the strawman

[mcar]

6. I knew that would happen

He is right, though. An unplanned evacuation of 6+ million people would have been an unimaginable catastrophe.

[KatyMan]

55. This. End of thread. n/t

[bluepen]

8. It might have been a bad call on the Mayor's part.

Same for the governor.

There are proven ways to evacuate and relocate people. Florida does it. SC does it. I'm sure it happens elsewhere.

[tammywammy]

11. Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation.

The last time they tried to evacuate it during Hurricane Rita almost more people died evacuating than in the hurricane.

Please show me another evacuation of 6+ million people.

[bluepen]

15. So no plan, nothing learned, in 12 years.

That's a failure at the local, state, and federal levels, in that order.

So now, instead of having an evacuation plan for 6 million, there's an ad hoc rescue plan for 6 million?

[tammywammy]

18. There is a plan but it requires more time than they had for Hurricane Harvey.

You can't evacuate 6+ million people in one day.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029521532

[bluepen]

21. There was some disagreement about that.

Really dangerous to have local officials urging people to ignore certain advice. But in the end, a failure at all levels.

[LisaL]

46. There is a reason local officials didn't want six million people to get on the road.

Even if you can't figure it out. Right now these people would be stuck on these roads in their cars. Guess what would happen if the roads flooded?

[bluepen]

57. Oh, I don't doubt that's the reason they're citing

after waiting and realizing it was too late.

But an official review will decide what could have been done. Unless, of course, excuses suffice and any such review is blocked. I won't be surprised to see that happen.

[LisaL]

66. It was too late from the start.

Harvey developed very quickly.

[jmbar2]

76. You don't know the facts

Former Houstonian here... Mayor Turner is making Exactly the right decision, based on prior experience of evacuations from Hurricane Rita.

First, there is not enough highway capacity to evacuate a population the size of Houston's.

During Rita there was an evacuation plan. They had priority codes for who would evacuate first, times, dates, etc. Even with a staggered evacuation, the freeways became gridlocked parking lots, moving only a mile or two per hour. The heat/humidity index was close to 100 degrees. Cars began to run out of gas, overheat, and break down. Idiots decided to try to drive in the emergency lanes, blocking emergency vehicles and space for the broken cars to move off the freeway. Soon, the idiots were blocking the few egresses from the freeway.

Then, all the gas stations ran out of gas, so miles of cars were stranded all along the feeder roads.

Over 100 people died. They ran out of water on the freeways, they were having heart attacks and other medical emergencies with no ambulances available. There were no bathrooms, and you couldn't run your AC for that long. The traffic jams went halfway to Dallas.

I was on one of those freeways, stuck, and listening to the weather reports of the incoming hurricane. Thankfully, it did not flood then, as it is now. But if we had received a similar amount of rainfall, thousands of people would have drowned in their cars.

It took me eight hours to drive 2 miles and change lanes, just to be able to exit down the grass of a freeway overpass and get off before I ran out of gas. I never tried to evacuate again. Sheltering in place is far safer, even when your house is flooding. Miserable, but safer.

Sylvester Turner knows what happened. A lot of his critics do not.

[Chemisse]

83. That must have been horrific.

I can't imagine how horrible it would have been this time, as the highways turned into rivers.

[bluepen]

86. So no change in plans for 12 years.

And I guess no need for any review going forward. Makes sense.

[tammywammy]

91. There was a huge review after Hurricane Rita.

i posted this link to you earlier, you should read it and the Houston Chronicle article linked.

There wasn't time to implement a huge mandatory evacuation of 6+ million people.

[bluepen]

95. Only 3 days.

As I pointed out to someone else, the Invest 09L model intensity guidance on 22 Aug showed this risk. Hell, they talked about it on The Weather
Channel. Risk - preparedness = what you're watching today.

[elehhhhna]

79. Evacuated was ordered for the Coast - over 200 miles of it

That's a million. Louisiana San Antonio etc are flooding. We're we supposed to driver to Michigan?

[USALiberal]

32. And where do 6 million people go? Holiday Inn in Dallas? n/t

[bluepen]

34. Some, sure.

I live in the coast of SC (plans for 1 million+) and in South Florida (plans for 6.5 million).

Lane reversals on highways, start a few days in advance.

For those who can't afford it, close inland schools to use as shelters, use school buses to bring evacuees.

This is done in many places. Not hard to figure out. And certainly no reason to think the only good plan is to rescue up to 6 million.

[Cattledog]

44. Why aren't you in Houston helping since you seem to have all the answers?

[jbond56]

65. because republicans like him just like to complain and spread hate.

[GulfCoast66]

73. Florida evacuated those right on the coast

And the keys. Moving everyone out of Houston would be like taking all of Miami up to Orlando. Most would be caught by the storm while stranded on the highway.

[smirkymonkey]

9. This should have been a federal effort. It is too much for a municipality to

handle on its own. FEMA fell down on the job here. The mayor is not blameless, but he does not deserve to bear the burden of the guilt.

[bluepen]

12. We handle it at the state level. Same as FL.

We evacuated here on the coast of SC last year and less than a year later, already doing the exercise.

http://www.scnow.com/news/local/article_0fb757e2-4acb-11e7-b7c0-ebc5199f54d7.html

COLUMBIA, S.C. -- South Carolina officials Wednesday will conduct a lane reversal exercise as part of the state's hurricane preparedness plans.

This hurricane evacuation exercise is designed to test lane reversal plans for Interstate 26, U.S. 21, U.S. 278, U.S. 501 and S.C. 544 in the event of a coastal evacuation order, according to a release issued by the South Carolina Department of Public Safety.

[smirkymonkey]

23. The state bears some responsibility too.

But everyone knew this would be a disaster of epic proportions. It can't only be blamed on the mayor.

[bluepen]

30. Agreed.

[maxrandb]

26. Fucking Columbia South Carolina has a population

Of what...80,000? Houston has a population of 6+ million.

Did you see the fucking freeways? Imagine that with 600,000 cars and busses on them

In other words, fuck your "we did it Columbia SC" horseshit

[jberryhill]

96. There is no historical precedent for an evacuation of 6 million people

[jberryhill]

35. There aren't even 6 million people IN South Carolina

What bullshit. When were the 5 million people of South Carolina ever evacuated from the entire state?

[bluepen]

37. In other posts I've mentioned that I also

live in South Florida and we have plans for evacuating 6.5 million. But I did not even need to mention that. Only people who aren't aware of hurricanes in Florida would be dense enough to think that there was no plan for this type of thing.

[jberryhill]

39. Yes, as noted above Houston also has "plans"

When Florida evacuates 6 million people to anywhere, do let us know.

[bluepen]

40. I'm sure it'll be on the news.

But I'll be happy to post it here for you.

[paleotn]

78. Yep, you go right ahead...

Einstein. I'm sure the powers that be in TX are kicking themselves for not inviting you to fix all, and I mean ALL their problems.

[obamanut2012]

90. JUst stop

There is literally no plan at all like that down here.

[jberryhill]

100. Cool... what day does this start for Irma?

[Cattledog]

43. Ha! Good one! 6 million is 1/3 of the state's population.

[obamanut2012]

89. I live in SOFL, too, and there is not a plan like that

Trust me on that. Zero truth in that. It would be impossible. The roads are gridlocked just at rush hour.

Even the plans to evacuate teh Keys are very, very rarely used, and when they are, it is a clusterfuck and gridlock, and that's just moving folks to the mainland in SOFL.

[mcar]

61. FL has evacuated the Keys

IIRC, they had more than 48 hours to do it. Plus, lots fewer than 6+ million.

[elehhhhna]

80. Remember that most folks on the keys have the means to evacuate.

[mcar]

81. That's right

Harvey came up so fast, I really don't see how any major city could mobilize to get everyone out.

[Phoenix61]

64. I'm in Florida

As another poster said, that's 1/3 of the entire population of the state.

[obamanut2012]

88. I live in SOFL too, and no, we do not

You are literally making stuff up now.

Even the Keys very rarely even evacuate about everyone, and when they do, it is a mess and a clusterfuck.

Just stop and shoo.

[jberryhill]

99. With Irma coming, I'm psyched to see the total evacuation of South Florida

What day does everyone start bugging out?

[obamanut2012]

87. you are clueless

[onetexan]

54. well said

I didn't see any mention of idiot 45's announcement of FEMA reaching out to the local municipalities to help. I didn't see any announcement from idiot GOP gov Abbott mentioning the state government was coordinating efforts with Houston's mayor either. GOP can't put the blame anywhere but themselves on this one.

[Mountain Mule]

71. Yep, and the repugs want us to conveniently forget about proposed FEMA budget cuts

Huffington Post:

While President Trump declared Texas an emergency disaster area from the Hurricane Harvey impacts, the Trump Administration’s FY 2018 budget blueprint for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is “penny wise and pound foolish”:

Cuts $667 million from FEMA state and local grant funding for programs that include disaster preparedness and response. For example: The Homeland Security Grant Program “plays an important role in the implementation of the National Preparedness System by supporting the building, sustainment, and delivery of core capabilities essential to achieving the National Preparedness Goal of a secure and resilient Nation.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pres-trumps-foolish-fema-budget-cuts-emergency_us_59a31222e4b0cb7715bfd6ab

[malaise]

10. I think Mother Nature wants the Con to resign

This would be a fitting end to his flood of fascism

[HipChick]

14. This is looking pretty bad for him already..

[murielm99]

47. We need to put the blame on 45

and his know-nothing administration of climate change deniers.

They may not be completely responsible for climate change, but they are doing nothing to help mitigate and deal with the current and future effects.

[malaise]

50. 6 Obama climate policies that Trump orders change

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/28/politics/climate-change-obama-rules-trump/index.html

[tenderfoot]

13. RW Trump folks...

you mean there's non-rw Trump folks?

[oberliner]

16. Good point

I'll edit.

[Kingofalldems]

17. Haven't seen that. Any links?

Don't understand why you posted without any evidence.

[oberliner]

19. Do you have access to Twitter?

If so, do a search of Houston mayor.

[sarisataka]

20. I would have guessed

Obama

[stonecutter357]

27. #fakenews.

[Lotusflower70]

28. Not surprised

They need their boogeyman.

[ThoughtCriminal]

31. Often, more people die in the evacuation than in the storm

They also need to have a place to go.

[shenmue]

51. Wow

[obamanut2012]

92. Exactly, which is why we usually stay put during 'canes

It's much safer, unless you are on a barrier island (the FL Keys, the Outer Banks, RIGHT on the water, etc.)

Evacuating Houston would have been impossible, and would have been murder.

[Demtexan]

33. But the County Judge of Harris County where Houston is located is a republican.

He is.

I guess he is to blame to.

[cloudbase]

67. Ed Emmett is a decent person

and a pretty capable administrator.
He's not a typical Texas republican.

[Ilsa]

36. Why didn't Fort Hood and other government facilities

Open their doors to Houston refugees? Why didn't they fly and bus people out?

[Ilsa]

38. People have gotten stuck in traffic for days.

It's bad enough to be stuck in your home during a hurricane. It's worse to be stuck on the road in a hurricane.

[LisaL]

48. And if that road floods, then all these people would be dead while trying to evacuate.

[Ilsa]

49. Drowned, blown away by tornadoes,

exposure, etc.

[Jim__]

42. After all, Trump wished them, "Good luck!"

What more could we ask of him?

[wishstar]

45. Houston was not directly in path of hurricane and torrential rain is vastly more than predicted

The rainfall expected is now double original predictions closer to four feet expected. All the other cities and towns across hundreds of miles in surrounding communities are also flooded, in places that never flooded before even during previous storms and hurricanes, while the destroyed town of Rockport that was under mandatory evacuation is not flooded, but uninhabitable due to structural damage.

As far as second guessing, about all most people could have done better was to stockpile more food and necessities in anticipation of being stranded due to flooded conditions. Many of those being rescued from rooftops were in neighborhoods that have never seen flooding since they were built over 40 years ago, so they had no expectation of problems. Flooding is already much worse and widespread in only 2 days than Allison was in 5 days or Hurricane Ike, and this storm has another 3 or 4 days.

[BigmanPigman]

52. Before the storm the lack of a decent and modern infrastructure

was discussed as being one of the main reasons Houston would surely flood. The government should have done that long ago. Most cities need a better infrastructure, especially along coasts as climate changes.

[worstexever]

63. Yes, I've read that all the development has concreted over previous drainage conduits

...that had mitigated flooding in the past. Assume that's one reason why there's flooding in areas that have never flooded before. Another reason is, of course, climate change.

[moonscape]

53. Finally something Obama didn't do! n/t

[Initech]

56. Sigh... this bullshit has got to stop.

[lpbk2713]

60. Meanwhile, Trump says ...

"Watch this drive."

[George II]

68. You can't evacuate a city of 2.3 million and a metropolitan area of more than 6 million....

....where were they supposed to go?

[mcar]

82. I'm confused as to why people don't get this

Plus, what about transportation? Everyone doesn't have the vehicle or funds to leave.

[obamanut2012]

94. Exactky -- if it's gridlocked during rush hour

Then it is impossible.

I live in SOFL. I have ridden out many hurricanes -- you just prepare and hunker down. It is much more dangerous to try and evacuate -- and who the hell has the money anyway. It would take weeks to do it.

[Sluggeaux]

69. So.. their solution was to evacuate Houston??

And did they provide advice on where the people of the 4th most populated city in the country should evacuate to??

The greater Houston area has a greater population than the next 5x most populated cities in Texas Combined including San Antonia, Dallas, Austin, Fort Worth, and El Passo. Add to that the coastal evacuations of people from Galveston to Corpus and you have one incredibly short sighted, and ridiculously stupid tRumpublican idea.

My husband and I are in Houston, and living through this mess. There was nowhere our entire city could evacuate to en masse.

[keithbvadu2]

75. Shouldn't be too long until Pat Robertson blames this disaster as God's punishment for rampant homos

Shouldn't be too long until Pat Robertson blames this disaster as God's punishment for rampant homosexuality in Texas?

[Bradical79]

77. Being home is better than stuck in the street, imo.

From the pics it looks to me that would have been much much worse for most.

[guillaumeb]

84. A bonus.

And it fits the general narrative about evil Democratic cities surrounded by virtuous, rural, right wing areas.

[VOX]

93. When local officials evacuated Houston in 2005, more than 100 people died in that effort.

More than were actually killed by that storm (Hurricane Rita).

[disillusioned73]

98. Bonus..

"He also happens to be African-American."

[muntrv]

101. It's the mayor's fault!

Forget that those people would have died while stuck on the expressways, it's his fault!