Americans no longer have to guess how the Germans "allowed" H and Nazis

[HAB911]

to gain power.

Link to tweet

Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.

Link to tweet

[spanone]

1. K&R...

[joeybee12]

2. Big knr

[dembotoz]

3. Sad but true

[edhopper]

4. The GOP are acting like

"Good Germans".

[Not Ruth]

8. The GOP are the modern day Nazi party, the Good Germans are the Independents

[edhopper]

9. Point taken

[aquamarina]

22. Your comment is very insulting

to me. I am not affiliated with any party. In California I have declined to state a political affiliation on my voter registration card but I can assure you that I am quite vocal in my opposition to Trump now just like I was to Jr. Bush back in the day. On the other hand I was quite supportive of Hillary Clinton after she became the nominee. Sweeping generalizations are not helpful in today's environment. And I take quite offense at being compared to a Good German.

[chwaliszewski]

26. I'm not as offended as you are but yes...

I agree that generalizations are not helpful. I am an Independent voter who always seems to lean left that is not a 'Good German'.

[Hortensis]

66. Yes. Absolutely. Plus, right-leaning independents are falling away from

this government in much larger numbers than registered Republicans. That post is not only highly inappropriate for this forum, it's very mistaken.

[ananda]

5. And remember ..

.. if you were ever wondering what ordinary Germans did while
Hitler came to power ..

.. you're doing it now.

[spike jones]

7. resist

For those on the sidelines:
by @matthewamiller:
"If you've wondered what you would have done in 1930s Germany or during the civil rights movement, congratulations: you're doing it now."
.................................................
You are either doing it right...or you are doing it wrong. Your choice.
Me. RESIST!!!!
From somewhere else:
“The Holocaust resulted neither from a confluence of circumstances beyond human control nor from history’s inexorable march. It happened because ordinary people failed to stop it.”

[ck4829]

6. They're so invested in being 'normalized', there's a reason for that

Last edited Sat Aug 26, 2017, 09:41 AM - Edit history (2)

The way I see it happening is people are going to be walking to self-report to the death camps... When someone asks why they are doing this and when they are pretty sure they can just walk away, they're going to tell themselves that would be weird and they "need a permit" in order to escape their own self-made march to oblivion.

We're seeing resistance and while this won't happen outright, this is the ultimate vision of today's Nazis. Read about Asch, read about Milgram.

[Duppers]

15. Yes. A great line from a MLK quote

Last edited Sat Aug 26, 2017, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)

"...The great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councillor or the KKK, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice..."
- Martin Luther King


That's middle America, more devoted to "order" than to justice.
And i'm afraid I know too many of those.

[smirkymonkey]

23. Excellent quote.

And sadly, too true in this country.

[ck4829]

32. Great line. Seeking to return to the way things were in the face of injustice is injustice.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

62. Priorities.

I saw a lot of people on Twitter, not just Trump Cultsters, saying the woman who stood in front of the doughy young White Supremacist in an ill-fitting Confederate uniform in Boston, giving him two one-finger salutes, was no better than him.

A woman gesturing to show disapproval of KKK & Nazis vs the guy marching with them, and some aren't sure which is worse.

[Duppers]

63. There are a lot of conditioning issues,

Including family and cultural pathology behind this false equivalency, besides outright racism.

Won't name the origins of the largest one, imo, because some DUers consider it bashing and I don't feel like arguing.
But, as MLK quote indicated, it's rather like "Be nice" at all cost.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

64. Very true.

And, I'm pretty sure I know and agree with the largest one you're referring to, but, yeah, I'm not in the mood fOR a fight, either.

[Trueblue Texan]

10. Willing citizens, but few leaders..

God knows there are plenty of folks who see what is going on and are willing to resist. The question is, how? Thousands march every day, but is that all we got? We can support candidates who embrace democratic values, and we can speak out. But apart from that, what can we do? My sleeves are rolled up and have been for a while. What to do now?

[DesertRat]

29. Welcome to DU, TrueBlue Texan

Well, for starters, the strongest lever you have is your local member of Congress. There’s an election coming up in 2018, and they want to keep their seats. If a local newspaper reports that protesters at a town hall barraged a Congressman with questions about a bill, or if a group of constituents on social media calls a Congressman unresponsive and untrustworthy, that makes them nervous. Some will go to great lengths to avoid those outcomes.
Also, of course, donate to and work for candidates. Get involved your local Democratic party and indivisible group.
Check out the posts in the Activist group here on DU for more ideas. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1011

[marybourg]

30. Yes, you're correct. We need a new Martin Luther King.

So far in our history, starting with our founding generation, we've been incredibly lucky to have leaders emerge when they're most needed.

Has our luck run out? Has our overly commercialized, overly media-centric society made it more difficult for capable new leaders to emerge?

We're waiting.

[adigal]

69. We can refuse to pay our taxes, declare 15 dependents, hold your $$ until April

We can refuse to buy anything from corporations, we can all strike from work, but no....we don't do those things. We like to behave well. We may be screwed.

[VOX]

11. "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!"

The parallels between "Cult 45" and the Third Reich's rise to power share numerous similarities:
-Scapegoating and targeting of minorities and political opponents
-Fears of losing racial superiority, leading to "racial impurity"
-Party muscle hailing from the less-educated interior regions
-Promises to make the country "great again"
-Disregard for law and established protocols
-Staged rallies held in favorable, "safe" locations, with leader's arrival deliberately staged by "arrival of aircraft from the clouds"
-Stated desire for information on citizens' political stance and voting habits
-Laying all responsibility and blame elsewhere
-Constant departure/arrival of high-ranking senior staff;
-Use of state-message media exclusively
-Large numbers of high-ranking military in close proximity to leader
-Voter intimidation, one-party rule
-Leader merges private industry into lucrative government contracts, most involving military and defense projects.
-Leader tells numerous lies to media, difficult to ascertain reality of anything

Many more, but that'll do for now.

[cheyanne]

44. Great post! Here's some more parallels.

-Attacked the democracy's power centers: media, judiciary, congress, intelligence community, the business community.

Trump came off the escalator already to de legitimatize the intelligence community and media. He knew that they were two power centers that he had to break.

Right now Trump is trying to break congress, a harder proposition because he can't call them "enemies". He is ensuring that Congress stayed dysfunctional by not supporting any bill that the Republicans put together, then blaming them for failure. He is keeping members afraid of his ability to call them out whenever he needs any enemy.

-Generated and encouraged violence against the "enemies" of the state.

-Used fear of violence to curtail civil rights. Trump's request for information on people who visited an opposition website is just the start of the ability to round up protesters.

- Use of "advisory" councils as petri dishes to see which CEO's will stay loyal to him in his toxic environment. They become future oligarchs in his administration.

[GusBob]

49. Great post thank you

[raccoon]

67. You're scaring me. This is chilling. Nt

[Baitball Blogger]

12. There was one book that planted the idea for me, that the Nazis just

exploited the mean, ornery sentiments of the local people. And that book was a fiction. It was called, Painted Bird. But it told me what nobody was willing to say out loud. There are some mean, selfish entitled people in every society. And we are in for a lot of hurt if they are in positions of power.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

14. A huge difference is that significant numbers of Americans have been

speaking up and protesting all along. In Germany almost everyone went along. Here, not so much. That gives me hope.

Another difference is that Donald is a genuine embarrassment, a total ignoramus who proudly displays is utter ignorance of everything. Hitler was a canny politician who, as awful as he was, kept on message at all times. He was not ignorant of his history. He was simply willing to identify Jews as the "enemy" to unite Germans against, which he did so single-mindedly and ruthlessly.

Read In the Garden of the Beasts by Erik Larson. It's about the year or so that our first ambassador to Hitler's Germany spent there.

[GusBob]

17. A better book perhaps

"They Thought They Were Free" I think the author is Milton Freidman

More of a perspective from average German

Correction Milton Mayer is the author

[RandomAccess]

45. Here's an excerpt, and a link -- the author is Milton Mayer

Milton Friedman was an economist, a not very nice one. But that's a different subject entirely.

The details outlined by Mayer are quite different from what we're experiencing now, of course (or at least for now), but I think this should be required reading for every American nonetheless. The whole thing is riveting, and important.

They Thought They Were Free The Germans, 1933-45

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

also see https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/8/29/1125588/-German-s-Thought-They-Were-Free-and-So-do-You

[GusBob]

48. Thank you for the clarification

The book is a tortuous read, as the participants wrap their minds over what happened, and pretzel themselves in their logic. And these were educated folks

[Duppers]

16. K & R

[sharedvalues]

18. And propaganda from the right causes it.

Fox, Limbaugh, Breitbart - these are the equivalent of Goebbels. Without these propaganda outlets Trump would be done.

[Sunlei]

33. fox TV, breibart & several other RW "tabloid" medias are funded by & arms of the Republican party.

Republican party=Corporations.

Republicans keep worker wages low so OUR Federal government has to subsidize LOW 'wages' with food stamps & welfare.

[sharedvalues]

37. Yup - funded by billionaires and oil corps

GOP billionaire donors --Koch,Koch,Adelson,Bradley,Olin,DeVos,Murdoch,Mercer -- and their networks are responsible for the current state of America.

[lunasun]

19. Pretty much how I see it except 30 20 50

[dalton99a]

20. +1

[Eyeball_Kid]

21. Fantastic thread. Seriously. It ought to run for a year.

Werner is spot on. We're watching our own destruction as it happens. We've lost the importance of the Rule of Law and the Constitution, for sure. And all of it was just waiting to happen. The consciousness of the nation has grown fat and lazy, and we've developed a vulnerability for fascism to overtake us. And that's exactly what's happening.

And yes, the GOP has lost its moorings, lost its own sense of purpose beyond that of power and money. They are, indeed, the "good Germans" of 2017, failing in their moral obligation to protect and defend the Constitution.

The GOP's excuse is that they are "Christians" who are ruled by the Bible. But that's an excuse that divides us, just as there were "good Germans" who also were Christians, but who shared in the myth that Jews were expendable. The issue here is the civil contract as expressed in the Constitution.

[Sunlei]

24. Germanys right-The Local 'gov' did the killing while H's closest "Admin" supervised & public watched

public watched and looted whatever they could grab from vacated homes.

[workinclasszero]

25. Glad my Dad and uncles, the OG Antifa that killed nazis without a permit

and with maximum violence in WW2 didn't live to see this country be destroyed by republican nazis and their damned Hitler.

There are no excuses for us. We have the well known history of the rise of Hitler and the nazi party. It's happening right in front of our eyes daily now.

Still the MSM makes excuses for them and tries to normalize these fascist pigs. The ones they helped get elected.

If Putin and Trump turn the USA fascist like Russia, Europe better watch out cause they will be next.

Russia, China, USA...it seems the entire world is going straight to fascist hell. Liberals are divided and fighting each other as republican hate, religious theocracy, anti science and racism goes deeper and deeper into the American body politic.

I shudder to think where this country will be in 20 years if this shit is not stopped somehow.

[LeftInTX]

51. There will be no WWII that will come to our rescue

We will be like Russia and China...

The world will complain about us.....but nothing will happen...No country will take us in as refugees...The UN will complain. There may even be talk of sanctions, but it won't happen. The US will engage in overseas wars, there will be talk, but nothing will happen. We are just too powerful.

Rights will erode, but there will be no Nazi death camps...just a bunch of private prisons...closed borders...increased poverty among minorities...minorities will further be marginalized....their education rates will drop...making them further marginalized...Jim Crow may come back....

[L. Coyote]

27. Plus, we have Temer in Brazil to see where we will be at in a few months time.

In more ways than one:

Link to tweet

[RKP5637]

28. I've thought of this several times. I had always wondered how that happened in Germany, now I see

some intent on it in the US.

[ck4829]

31. If you refuse to be that 1/3 that watches, then read this.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029517319

[SCVDem]

34. I have wondered also

Now I see how the propaganda primes the pump for the crazy leader.

I have also considered that our diversity, a bit different from 'ein Volk', helps prevent a minority mindset from overwhelming a majority.

We also have more arms than many small nations. Not much longer and we will be looking for our William Wallace to lead an uprising. What the military and police do will determine our future. 16+ years in A-Stan and others before us.

Resistance is not futile!

[sharedvalues]

38. Lugenpresse, Fake News. Same propaganda

Same concept. 1930s to today.

[Enoki33]

35. As has been said, this did not happen in a vacuum. For years we

watched the GOP as they politically, socially, economically and racially divided the country in their abusive quest to gain and hold power. When trump started his personal grab there were those who tried to warn he was using H's playbook. The media was more interested in ratings and dumbing down. Now the stark reality is here. Either we go like proverbial sheep or organize ourselves to get involved in the political process at all levels. That choice is still available.

[DFW]

36. Germany in 1933 was ripe for a fascist takeover

It was still reeling from the defeat in World War I, a devastated economy plus the economic burden of war reparations it could never repay, a completely fractured political system with about 20 parties making sure no majority or coalition would ever get anything done, and guns everywhere. It was ripe for a demagogue looking to blame someone, as the population was looking to blame someone for their misery, too.

The USA today basically has two parties with a clear difference between them. We are economic powerhouse, and we don't really need a big Bogey Man scapegoat--only frustrated, angry people need that. Look at most of our Neo-Nazis--emotional basket cases, many with inferiority complexes as big as Trump's or even bigger. Nothing is EVER their fault, so it must be everyone else's fault. It worked for Hitler, after all, didn't it? And guns everywhere? Just ask what flavor.

We never had a Hitler before. Germany has. Here in Germany, if you want a firearm, you apply, take a written exam, show technical proficiency, get a psychological evaluation, and are required to keep it locked up, unloaded, in a safe cabinet with a lock. They do spot checks, and if you carelessly leave your firearm in the open or unsecurely stowed away, you lose it and your license. Sure, you can get firearms illegally if you are really determined to, but even a rumor of an illegal one will get you more trouble than it's worth. German cops almost never pull out their guns. The only thing that will make a German cop do that is someone else with a gun.

The biggest danger of a fascist takeover in America today is precisely that no one else thinks it could ever happen. There won't be a "communist" takeover or an Islamist takeover because we are always on the lookout for one. But a takeover by ignorant "Christian (no, they aren't, but they call themselves that) patriots (no, they aren't that, either, but they call themselves that)" is not something against which we have safeguards in place. We don't expect it. We don't see one coming. For precisely that reason we need to be extra-vigilant against one.

[steve2470]

40. excellent post my friend

If we slide into a severe recession or a depression and we Democrats do not turn out in the next election as we should...the next Republican (or Trump, if he survives that long) could be way too close to Hitler. Trump is already way too close for me.

[DFW]

41. The Germans are looking on in horror

They basically are telling us "don't you see what you are doing to yourselves?"

Then they freak out even further when they see interviews on TV with Trump supporters who see perfectly well what we are doing to ourselves, and love every minute of it.

[steve2470]

43. I really appreciate your info from Germany

I said before the election that Trump was way too close to Hitler-lite for me (Hitler minus the obvious anti-semitism). I was in the minority, with most voting for Mussolini-clone (which is understandable).

Please keep relaying this information. It CAN happen here, if we're not careful. The Muslims will be first, then Jews and liberals and socialists and communists and trade unionists, etc etc etc.

[LeftInTX]

50. Agree with Steve

Keep the info coming

I tend to see Trump as more Mussolini like, but his personality isn't the real issue as much as what surrounds him. What are the safeguards? The Weimer Republic was unstable. The US is more stable.

But you never know...David Frum has noted the gradual erosion of Democracy is many parts of Eastern Europe....At the very least our Democracy is eroding..

An elected president does have alot of power...so does Congress...
But this Congress is enabling him...

Ryan, McConnell don't care....

[DFW]

52. Ryan and McConnell are as responsible for him as anyone

They could speak up, act in force to show that Congress does not intend to go along with this degrading of the level of discourse and policy in this country. Fiscal responsibility is one thing. A wholesale destruction of the lower social strata and our natural resources, along with our world image is quite another level, and both of them are so far quite comfortable with Trump's antics. Oh, they'll make a face every now and then, but that's for Fox Noise to show their "independent streak," which lasts about as long as a total solar eclipse.

As for Eastern Europe, Romania and Bulgaria were always basket cases, Albania, too. Poland and Hungary have chosen to join them of their own free will. Hope only lives on in the former Czechoslovak parts and the former Yugoslavia. Even Greece is teetering on the brink, and Turkey has fully gone over to the dark side.

We are indeed more stable than the Weimarer Republik. They had something like 15% support for their sort-of equivalent of Democrats and Republicans and 3% to 5% each for everything from Sanders to Stein to McConnell to Duke to Arpaio. They only agreed to disagree. Even in the election of 1933, Hitler only got 33% of the vote, which was considered substantial under the circumstances.

[uponit7771]

39. Can't do such without propaganda TV like FAUX news and BigFart

[DFW]

42. Actually "Breitfart" is quite fitting

"Breit" is the German word for "wide" or "broad."

[jimlup]

46. The only thing we have going for us is

that the Orange Clown Child is much stupider than Hitler.

[BainsBane]

53. Absolutely true.

[byronius]

54. Absolutely true.

[BarbD]

55. We can learn from 1930's Germany, but we are different.

Suggest reading "An Iron Wind" by Peter Fritzsche. Through diaries, letters and first person accounts he relates what Europe was like under Hitler. Fear, hate and ignorance paved the way for Hitler.

Our diversity is our strength. Considering everything that worked against Hillary in the election, it is amazing that we got the number of votes that we did. Now, we can't make yesterday's mistakes become baggage that bogs us down. We need to stay in the moment and fight today's battles. If we take care of today, 2018 will take care of itself. Also, we can't expect a "messiah" to deliver us from this nightmare. Each one of us needs to encourage our Democratic Senators and Representatives. Speak up whenever we have the opportunity. Working together there is hope. Obama gave us the template for success. Yes We Can!

[sharedvalues]

56. We are different, but we have other risks

On the positive side, we have a majority of Americans that voted for Hillary and voted for tolerance and acceptance of differences.

However, on the negative side, we also have a stronger propaganda machine than Hitler did.

Russia is still amplifying hate on social media, and using RT and Sputnik to reach out to the US.

Limbaugh reaches 20 million and right wing radio 50 million Americans per week. Many of those listen EVERY DAY. Hitler and Goebbels could only dream of that power. The Federalist, Daily Caller, Carlson, Fox and Friends, Fox News, WSJ editor and op-ed staff, Peggy Noonan, Ross Douthat, Bret Stephens, Bari Weiss, alt-right hate groups, Free Beacon, D'Souza, Reason, Breitbart, Washington Times, NY Post, Jeff Jacoby, Boston Herald, amongst others ---
They all push false right-wing talking points to help Trump. They also try to divide Democrats. That is bad.

That is why the president is still at 85%+ approval amongst the GOP. There is a huge right wing propaganda machine much larger than Hitler's.

[BarbD]

59. No doubt the reach of the propaganda right is formidable.

I don't believe we should keep on trying to convert Republicans. It is a hopeless cause -- you can't reason with unreasonable people. Instead we need to concentrate on the 50% of Americans who didn't bother to vote and participate in our democracy.

[sharedvalues]

57. Agreed that we will win this fight.

All that said we're still going to win the country back. It will take hard work. Let's roll up our sleeves and get started.

[lordsummerisle]

58. k&r n/t

[rocktivity]

60. I was a wee child -- actually, I was a wee teenager -- when I first saw this Monty Python sketch

And it's always stuck in my mind because it seemed so ridiculous that anyone could be so ignorant and "out of it." But that IS what they count on, isn't it?


rocktivity

[PatrickforO]

61. Indeed. And my heart is torn open by the knowledge.

So many tears will be shed if we do not get this horrible, twisted party out of power. They aren't republicans. They aren't patriots. They aren't moral. Rather, they are consumed with hatred of anyone who is different.

If they want to 'take America back,' what does that even mean?

Back in time?

Back to the comfortable white majority?

Back to the good old days in white suburbia?

Back to the time when a guy could drop out of high school, and still do well enough to live middle class?

Back to the days when Mom stayed home and raised the kids while Dad went out and won the 'bread?'

Back to the days when no one spoke of gay and lesbian people, or even acknowledged them, bisexual meant a MFF three-way, and trans was simply unheard of?

Back to the days of Jim Crow?

Back to the days of slavery?

Back to Nazi Germany, only this time with US as the Nazis?

This is the worst thing that has happened to this nation since the Civil War. And no, it's not the War Between the States or the War of Northern Aggression - the Union WON and the traitors were defeated.

How many of us, I wonder, will suffer and even die before this is over? How many will lose all they have and never get it back? Will there be another Holocaust?

I don't know the answers, but I'm hurting really bad inside for this nation we love, and for all of us.

[Solly Mack]

65. and yet

I guarantee some still wonder and some are in denial and some think it a good thing. The rest of us? Scared, if we're smart- but willing to fight, too.

K&R

[Honeycombe8]

68. "All it take for evil to exist is for good people to remain silent."

So the saying goes.

That's why it's important for decent Americans to speak up and out, whenever the evil head of Naziism and white supremacy rears its ugly head. Silence is approval.

America has hit back hard recently. Good!