When a "universal" approach narrows the fight (Class struggle linked to all struggles)

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

IT'S GREAT that more people on the U.S. left are embracing a politics of social class. But too many supporters of class politics still argue as if working-class struggle is separate from struggles against sexism, racism and other forms of oppression, or treat struggles against oppression as not all that important.

To read more:

https://socialistworker.org/2017/08/14/when-a-universal-approach-narrows-the-fight

[guillaumeb]

1. More:

This approach "not only presumes that class struggle is some sort of race- and gender-neutral terrain but takes for granted that movements focused on race, gender or sexuality necessarily undermine class unity and, by definition, cannot be emancipatory for the whole," as Robin D.G. Kelley argued 20 years ago.
The history of struggles against oppression disproves those notions. The abolition of slavery in the U.S. inspired organizers for the rights of wage workers and women. "As slaves acted to change things for themselves, horizons broadened for almost everyone," notes David Roediger.

[Warpy]

2. I suppose he hasn't noticed

that POC are automatically linked to the underclass, especially by cops, and that women are not considered worthy, at all, unless they're legally tied to a white male, in which case they're lumped in with his class. If not, they're automatically looked at as lower class since they're not worthy of full pay.

It's all class struggle if you know how to read things.

[guillaumeb]

4. Excellent points.

The real meaning of "all men are created equal".

[BainsBane]

9. Class but not just class

That's the point. Calls to abandon identity politics NARROW the struggle because because the white working class (and in the case of Sanders' audience we are really talking about middle class) experience is not universal.

And really, The Socialist Worker is not unfamiliar with the concept of class. It is a Marxist publication.

[Warpy]

19. My poiint is that it isn't an either/or, zero sum game

They are inextricably entwined. You can't work on one without addressing the other, ever.

[BainsBane]

10. That excerpt, and the article, argues against

exactly what you and many other Bernie supporters have been arguing on this site ever since the election.

[guillaumeb]

14. Putting all Sanders supporters in one category without evidence that all share

the same exact views is counterproductive and reductionistic, but it allows one to argue against a simple straw man.

I assume that it has not occurred to you, but it might occur to some, that the reason I posted this is to make the point that you are also making.

[leftstreet]

3. An injury to one...

DURec

[guillaumeb]

5. If only it were really true.

If it were true, the capitalists would have a far harder time dividing workers.

[socialist_n_TN]

6. It might not be true, BUT...........

there's nothing wrong with reminding people of it as often as possible. Remember all we need is a critical mass, we don't need everybody.

[guillaumeb]

7. True.

But the fight is also against media framing of capitalism as the best and, in many senses, the only possible system for the US.

If we can convince people that all struggles for equality are just that, a struggle for equality, perhaps people might understand that division only serves the best interest of the capitalists.

The problem is the division. And if one narrow segment, often white males, is convinced that it has achieved equality, that is an illusion if all have not reached the same equality.

[BainsBane]

8. I don't get the sense you understand the point of the article

It is talking about how calls to back away from "identity politics" are exclusionary.

Seymour adds that "a wing of the liberal center" uses "identity politics" "to criticize what they think of as the overly clamorous and over-hasty demands of women, gays, African-Americans, migrants and others for justice." . . .

This approach "not only presumes that class struggle is some sort of race- and gender-neutral terrain but takes for granted that movements focused on race, gender or sexuality necessarily undermine class unity and, by definition, cannot be emancipatory for the whole," as Robin D.G. Kelley argued 20 years ago.

The article argues against what you and other Sanders supporters have been promoting since the election. It points out the claim of universalism is false, that it NARROWS the struggle for economic and social justice, that it centers it around white men to the exclusion of everyone else.

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. Thank you for patiently and politely educating some here.

[guillaumeb]

15. I would say rather that in the haste and zeal to "educate",

the responder has totally missed my point in actually posting the article.

[guillaumeb]

12. Would you allow for the possibiity that you are incorrect in your assumption?

And would you further accept that I had a reason for posting this particular article that might actually be different from what you assumed?

I would also ask if you read the entire article?

[BainsBane]

13. Does that mean you've done an about face?

You no longer think it essential for me to abandon my equal rights so that those like you can win and thereby more equal? If so, I think many DUers would like to here how you've come to the realization that arguing against equal rights and identity politics does not further the interests of the oppressed. I would think that would merit an OP and could generate quite a useful discussion.

[guillaumeb]

16. My point in posting this article was to argue FOR a more nuanced approach.

And my responses here should support that for those who care to read them. A "one size fits" approach is insufficient because it fails to see how every struggle for equality supports all struggles for equality.

That is not an about face on my part, it has been my approach all along. While I understand the appeal of a class based analysis, and agree with it, the fact is that capitalists use division as an essential tool for controlling workers. Appeals to race, and gender, and sexuality, and religion are all attempts at division.

[BainsBane]

17. From the perspective of someone on the losing end

of your "nuanced" analysis of the last few months, I don't find sufficient your refusal to take responsibility for arguing for the reduction of half the population to second-class citizenship.

I do find it interesting how little of the article you decided to include in your OP. I wonder why that is?

And while I've seen a number of class-based arguments in recent years, they have by in large consisted of efforts by those who have more to justify their dominance over and disregard for the poor and oppressed.
They've been justifications for even greater bourgeois dominance, and the effort to roll back civil rights and reproductive rights is entirely in keeping with that goal.

[guillaumeb]

18. First, you are attempting to make an argument based on nothing,

because I never argued what you claim in your first paragraph. A classic straw man.

Second, we are limited in what we can include. I provided an essential element, but I assume also that those who respond will, in fact, have read the article.

Third, please do not confuse or conflate my argument with any others that you have read. My argument is based on the 1%, or the capitalists, if you will, using division in pursuit of their economic goals. And that division can take many forms.

[BainsBane]

20. False

You posted a push poll based on the assumption that undermining abortion rights would "win." We all saw it. Prior to that you defended Keith Mello's record of sponsoring and voting for anti-choice legislation based on a blatantly false comparison to Tim Kaine's personal views on abortion. So your claims on that subject are demonstrably false. It's not a strawman. Now you refuse to own up to those posts.


The 1 percent mantra is not about capital. The 99 percent is not a class. The 99 percent is comprised of a host of classes, with those near the top worlds away from those at the bottom. It's also a trope by which that upper-middle class justifies demands that center them and ignore poverty.

[guillaumeb]

21. I have been accused of not supporting womens' rights.

In one of your responses, by the way.

of your "nuanced" analysis of the last few months, I don't find sufficient your refusal to take responsibility for arguing for the reduction of half the population to second-class citizenship.

And that has not been supported. Nor can it be supported by my posts.

And my point in posting this article was to remind people that any purely economic focus ignores the fact that capitalists use a variety of methods to divide workers. The approach must combine economics with social justice.

A point that you apparently missed when you decided to inform me of a point I had already made.

[lapucelle]

22. You nailed it BB.

Here are the three paragraphs I would have chosen:

"What both these lines of argument have in common is the idea that the left should champion a universalist politics instead of "identity politics"--and that universalist politics don't include demands directed specifically against racism, sexism, heterosexism, settler-colonialism and other kinds of oppression.

Action against gender violence, free contraception, free abortion on demand, free public child care, a federal and state jobs program for economically marginalized Black people, permanent resident status for all immigrants, full legal equality for queer and trans people, self-determination for indigenous nations – these and other reforms to weaken oppression are downplayed or sometimes even excluded as "particular" "identity" demands.

This approach 'not only presumes that class struggle is some sort of race- and gender-neutral terrain but takes for granted that movements focused on race, gender or sexuality necessarily undermine class unity and, by definition, cannot be emancipatory for the whole.'"