Daniel Fried (on MSNBC): "Robert E. Lee broke his oath so he could defend slavery."

[sandensea]

[First Speaker]

1. This is an excellent point. Lee did *not* take an oath to defend the state of Virginia...

...which was his justification for going with the Confederacy. He *did* take an oath to defend the United States of America. This is why I've never been able to regard him as anything but a traitor, and regard the defenses put for him to ring hollow...

[sandensea]

2. Them's fighting words in the Deep South, let me tell you!

I lived in Mississippi for a few years; it's hard to overstate how much the right-wingers there fetishize the Confederacy, the Antebellum era, and Robert E. Lee in particular.

[Major Nikon]

6. Neo-Confederates

The confederacy was largely forgotten until the Civil Rights movement began picking up steam in the 50's. It's really nothing more than a hate movement which hides behind a thin veil of a "culture" of traitors.

[sandensea]

8. Excellent point.

During the efforts to remove the Stars and Bars from the state flags of Georgia and Mississippi a few years ago, the media seemed to purposely ignore the fact that they were placed there during precisely that same revivalist push you described above.

Georgia removed theirs; Mi'ssippi is another story.

[tblue37]

9. Stars and Bars? nt

[Docreed2003]

12. Most people don't realize that

The "stars and bars" refers to the first flag of the CSA and not what is colloquially termed "the confederate flag".

[Major Nikon]

3. Not really historically accurate

Lee resigned his commission shortly after Virginia's secession and prior to joining the confederacy. That doesn't mean he wasn't still a traitor, but it does mean he was no longer bound by his original oath.

[sandensea]

5. Swearing to defend the constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic isn't something that lapses

simply because you resign your commission. Doing so may free you from your military obligations - but is not carte blanche to lead an attack against the United States.

[Major Nikon]

10. It means you are bound no more than anyone who never took an oath to begin with

So no, it doesn't free you to become a traitor, but it does mean you aren't subject to a charge of perjury for breaking the oath because you are no longer bound by it.

[sandensea]

11. Yeah. They're clever sons of bitches.

A tradition upheld in modern times by the likes of Lee Atwater, Buttkiss Sessions, and Bitchy Mitchy.

[procon]

13. Not sure, is that actually true?

If swearing the oath is a legal, binding contract it doesn't end when someone leaves the military. Even when a soldier gets out, the military can still recall him because that oath hasn't gone away. When Lee joined the Confederate army then he became forsworn since he could not hold two oaths simultaneously.

[Major Nikon]

16. It's a contract that may be broken, not a lifelong one

Lee tendered the resignation of his commission and it was accepted by the US Army. At that point the contract was no longer in place and Lee had no further obligation to his oath.

[SummerSnow]

4. Trump will call it fake news

[sandensea]

7. I trust someone's keeping an eye on Cheeto.

I can almost hear the wheels turning in Bannon's lardy but Machiavellian head. I wouldn't put it past them to place a bomb under the Jefferson or Washington memorial, and then claim it was the work of those trying to have Confederate memorials dismantled.

[Xolodno]

14. Uhm...not quite.

Slavery was legal. And would would have continued to be legal. The goals of the Abolitionists was to contain slavery to only those states where it was legal. Then hoped over time, the slave states would eventually reverse course.

The main issue stemmed from the Mexican-American War. Suddenly the size of the US doubled with new territory. Would that territory allow slavery? The South wanted to expand slavery and with the election of Lincoln, it appeared it wasn't going to happen. So they seceded and attacked the North, hoping for a quick victory. Then force recognition of the Confederacy and have the North, in a peace settlement, turn over some of the territory of the Mexican-American War. Southerners also fought in that war and felt they had a right to some of it with slavery legalized. Hell, they would probably would have legalized importing slaves again, impoverished people of another race to sell their kids into slavery, etc.

[oasis]

15. Lee was looking out for his own bottom line. He was a mercenary

and a traitor.