The utter stupidity of the Nation's attempt to absolve Russia of the DNC hacks.

[DanTex]

I'm surprised they would sink this low. Here's the article. It's long. I actually read it, and followed the links. But don't bother.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

Here's the TL;DR. The "questions" are all based on the timestamps on DNC files that were released. There are two salient points. First, the times suggest that the computer involved was running on Eastern Time in the US. Second, the differences between the timestamps indicate a transfer rate of about 23 MB/sec, which is faster than would be possible from most ISPs (fair enough, it's MB not Mb). From that they conclude that the files must have been copied physically onto a thumb drive rather than hacked over the internet.

OK. So leave aside the fact that it is utterly trivial to modify file timestamps, or the fact that there are indeed plenty of servers connected to the internet that can do 23 MB/sec no problem. This article is even stupider.

Because, even if we accept that the timestamps indicate copying locally, not through the internet, all this analysis would imply is that at some point the files were copied locally. It says absolutely nothing about what happened before those files got copied. Files get copied all the time. To assume that these timestamps represent the actual time of the hacking, rather than some other time that someone copied them from one drive to another, or one folder to another, is unbelievably stupid.

I don't know Nation, you've written some good things in the past. But to sink to this level, citing anonymous "studies" on the internet by people who don't have the first clue how computers work, in order to absolve Russia. Not good.

[apcalc]

1. The nation is moving so far left, it's now right.

[LisaM]

2. I cancelled my subscription back in 2008.

At the time, they endorsed Obama over Hillary, and I felt that they had absolutely no ideological justification for doing so. They aren't a Democratic magazine - they have no obligation to endorse any primary candidate. They endorsed against her in 2016 as well; again, I didn't really feel this was necessary.

I think that for the most part, the magazine has an anti-Hillary Clinton slant. There are a few exceptions (Katha Pollitt, Rebecca Solnit) but they take grief when they try to stand up for her.

I'm not disappointed in them at this point, because I don't expect as much of them as I used to.

[Skittles]

6. I quit donating to Buzzflash for the same reason

I do not understand why they had to endorse Obama and Bernie, except out of sheer misogyny

[lapfog_1]

3. I addressed this in another post

The size of the files and duration of the transfer tell you ABSOLUTELY nothing about the link speed of the media over which the files were transferred.

Most server class machines use TCP/IP offload engines... one of the key features of the offload engine is the payload compression. If the files in question were emails, these are mostly text and one could expect very high compression ratio. As much as 10 to 1.

And, as you point out, it would be very likely that someone would hack into a cluster of machines using the weakest link and, having used this machine as a stepping stone to hack into the email server, would have made a local (LAN) copy of the files before sending them over the internet to the hackers' machine (or a third party cut out).

In any event, just looking at the activity of the email server and the size of the copied files tells you absolutely nothing about the nature of the hack.

Absolutely criminal that the DNC didn't have proper firewalls, encrypted data, and run something like SELinux for their IMAP or POP3 server.

[underpants]

9. Thanks for the Tech info.

I saw this yesterday and couldn't believe that it could be so simple as speed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-10/why-some-u-s-ex-spies-don-t-buy-the-russia-story

It includes details about download speed which I had not heard before but it also took VIPS claims at face value.

The really interesting part to me was that it mentions that The Nation and Consortium News are now Russian disinformation distributors:

Unlike the "current and former intelligence officials" anonymously quoted in stories about the Trump-Russia scandal, VIPS members actually have names. But their findings and doubts are only being aired by non-mainstream publications that are easy to accuse of being channels for Russian disinformation. The Nation, Consortium News, ZeroHedge and other outlets have pointed to their findings that at least some of the DNC files were taken by an insider rather than by hackers, Russian or otherwise.

There is now another thread dealing with the changes in The Nation
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029442979

[ismnotwasm]

4. I did read it.

It amounts to a shit ton of gossip.

[11cents]

5. The editor of the Nation is married to a leading Putin apologist

Katrina vanden Heuvel -- married to Stephen Cohen, who's been a Putin supporter "from the left" for years and years.

[LisaM]

7. Really? That's interesting.

I think she's a trust fund baby, too. She is definitely in a bubble.

[Me.]

12. Certainly Is

“Vanden Heuvel was born in New York City, the daughter of Jean Stein, an heiress, best-selling author, and editor of the literary journal Grand Street, and William vanden Heuvel, an attorney, former US ambassador, member of John F. Kennedy's administration, businessman, and author. She has one sister and two step-siblings. Her maternal grandparents were Music Corporation of America founder Jules C. Stein and Doris Babbette Jones (originally Jonas). Through her maternal grandmother, vanden Heuvel is a distant cousin of actor and comedian George Jessel.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katrina_vanden_Heuvel

[Susan Calvin]

24. I did not know that.

Thank you for the information.

[nocalflea]

27. They're both bought and paid for.

ThNks for bringing this up. People need to know.

[Doug the Dem]

44. And he was a Soviet Apologist back in the day

Basically, if it's Russian, Stevie loves it.

[jalan48]

8. The hacks certainly proved to be embarrassing. Maybe we can get some on the Republicans.

[Trial_By_Fire]

10. There appears to be no conclusive proof either way...

There is no conclusive proof that the Russians did it.
There is no conclusive proof that the files were downloaded internally

But this article does raise some questions. Before anybody says who did it,
they better have proof.

What is unusual thou is that the DNC, according to the article, did not
have the FBI actually look at the DNC computers. That to me is 'weird'...

What is needed is an actual FBI/NSA investigation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. Haven't 17 intelligence agencies already investigated and agree that it was Russia?

[Me.]

13. But What Do They Know

[MiddleClass]

16. Obviously talking point regurgitation

4 main Intel agencies separately came up with that, 17 agreed with the findings.

DNC, FBI, server issues have been debunked[link:https://www.buzzfeed.com/alimwatkins/the-fbi-never-asked-for-access-to-hacked-computer-servers?utm_term=.hdmMOL6Z6#.toVyRQg9g|

one of the best, most capable security companies, chock-full of experts use computer forensics on the server. The FBI did not request the server.

Trial_By_Fire , you might start getting a replication

[Trial_By_Fire]

18. Well yes according to buzzfeed and what Eric Walker, the DNCs deputy communications director said..

..said on 1.4.2017.

More from the article:

“The DNC had several meetings with representatives of the FBI's Cyber Division and its Washington (DC) Field Office, the Department of Justice's National Security Division, and U.S. Attorney's Offices, and it responded to a variety of requests for cooperation, but the FBI never requested access to the DNC's computer servers,” Eric Walker, the DNC’s deputy communications director, told BuzzFeed News in an email.

The FBI has instead relied on computer forensics from a third-party tech security company, CrowdStrike, which first determined in May of last year that the DNC’s servers had been infiltrated by Russia-linked hackers, the U.S. intelligence official told BuzzFeed News.

So, the FBI et.al has not investigated the DNC server.

What we need is the truth...

[MiddleClass]

21. That is rich, you are quoted referencing a lie, referencing a quest for truth

Trial_By_Fire

14. Well, there are news articles saying 'not all 17 intel agencies'...But,

View profile


...they did say 4 of Them did say that.

I have no idea who hacked the DNC - that's why we need a real investigation.

It still is 'weird' that the DNC refuses to let the FBI et.al look at the DNC server....
(see: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/5/dnc-email-server-most-wanted-evidence-for-russia-i/ )

CrowdStrike, which the FBI uses almost exclusively for computer forensics is not a good enough source?

A computer specialist security company is good enough for the FBI, but not you?

Don't hurt yourself moving those goalposts, they looked heavy

[Trial_By_Fire]

22. Can you sitefor me to where the "FBI uses almost exclusively for computer forensics"...?

And not themselves? Why would the FBI use other people and not their own people?

[MiddleClass]

25. I heard it from an interview with this guy

[link:https://www.crowdstrike.com/shawn-henry/|

question is, why would they trust some smuck of the street, so, yeah, that's right.

They were under FBI contract at that time.

Searching through links at the moment that…

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. Thank you. Anyone questioning the conclusion of the intelligence at this point, deserves to be...

looked at skeptically. It's a well worn DT talking point that doesn't even deserve a response at this point.

[MiddleClass]

31. When you see DNC refuses to hand over server, it's right wing talking points

When you see now proven Russians connections with email hack not proven, it's right wing talking points.

They regurgitate the exact same words

[VermontKevin]

34. It's a regurgitation of a DT tweet.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jul/11/donald-trump/did-john-podesta-deny-cia-and-fbi-access-dnc-serve/

[MiddleClass]

48. Thank you, I was under the impression it was from the Republican fast response talking points commit

Committee. It probably is, but it gets way more attention from the Twitter fool

[GulfCoast66]

17. Washington times!! WTF

Next you will be linking to Breitbart. They explain the DNC conspiracy in even more detail.

[Tarheel_Dem]

19. Well, it didn't take long to figure you out. Your proof is The Moonie Times? No agenda there, right?

[Trial_By_Fire]

20. True or false: did the FBI et.al investigate the DNC Servers...?

[VermontKevin]

30. Yes. According to James Comey. If it was good enough for him, what's your beef?

"We got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this my folks tell me was an appropriate substitute," Comey said.

"The DNC coordinated with the FBI and federal intelligence agencies and provided everything they requested, including copies of DNC servers," Watson said. She added that the copy contains the same information as the physical server.

The FBI joined CrowdStrike’s efforts to boot Russia from the server, but then-Homeland Security Department secretary Jeh Johnson complained the DNC rebuffed their offer to help. This was because Russia was already out of their system by then.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jul/11/donald-trump/did-john-podesta-deny-cia-and-fbi-access-dnc-serve/

[Trial_By_Fire]

35. "including copies of DNC servers,"...

Being a computer specialist myself, 'copies' can be 'anything'...

[VermontKevin]

36. This gets better. Now you are suggesting the FBI contractor altered the copies?

Maybe they did it in the basement of Comet Ping Pong.

[DanTex]

47. Umm, what? You sure you are a computer "specialist"?

Copying computer files isn't like copying artwork by hand. It's a straightforward thing. You see, the files are stored as sequences of 0s and 1s, and to copy them you make another identical sequence of 0s and 1s. It's not complicated. And it's not "anything."

[MiddleClass]

49. Being a computer geek myself,

I will venture that the original report use the word "Clone" otherwise the word "forensics" would not apply

[VermontKevin]

26. Oh wait: the discussion in this thread by this poster is illuminating:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029445849

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. Yup. I saw that, and it helps confirm my suspicions.

[VermontKevin]

32. Someone call Susan Rice. I think an unmasking just happened.

[dalton99a]

37. +1

[Vetteguy]

33. Quoting the Washington Times here?

Is that allowed?

[Maven]

39. So many RW/Putinist talking points, it's hard to know where to begin

You've been building up quite the profile here, but this takes the cake. Perhaps you should have been more subtle. We see you.

[DanTex]

40. No, the article does not "raise some questions." It is garbage.

Nothing is unusual about the FBI not physically getting the servers, except on the alt-left/alt-right internet. James Comey, head of the FBI, was asked about that in sworn congressional testimony and testified to as much.

Also, in case you've been living under a rock, there has already been an FBI/NSA investigation, and both found that the hack was from Russia.

[MiddleClass]

15. Anyone who took networking 101 knows you transfer to a local server, and then to destination

A local server like one at a flophouse, from personnel located at the estates seized. For example.

The shorter the ping list, the shorter chance of getting caught.

This is almost elementary with computer geeks, 20 years ago, Hollywood was showing this.

Swordfish anyone

[Vetteguy]

29. The far lefts defense of Russia

is sickening.

[BootinUp]

38. I guess the author and others just want to

Throw out the findings of the IT firm and the FBI? These days, facts don't seem to matter to a lot of people.

[leftstreet]

42. How do you mean?

always have their posts removed from their journal from the day of the "hack?"

[Rhiannon12866]

43. Don't try to figure that out

It didn't make sense.

[leftstreet]

45. No kidding

It shall remain a DU mystery to me

[Rhiannon12866]

46. We get these things from time to time

But they don't remain with us long.