Got an interesting post from a former DUer on origin of the "fire and fury" dump comment

[NRaleighLiberal]

Grasswire sent this along to me - just posting for interest. I'd not really thought much about the terms (I try to not think about any of the sewage that escapes his lips)...

Anyway - here is what was sent.

"Hard to believe that no MSM reporter has googled the words "Fire" and "Fury" and "Bible." I did. And I hope Trump's message wasn't some kind of code for the end-times Christians praying for their rapture to come during his administration:

Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV - For, behold, the LORD will come with FIRE, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with FURY, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Because, you see, when Trump claims that this Fire and Fury will deliver something greater than the world has ever seen, he is speaking their rapture language. Their prophecy. They want it to come now. And the world's greatest military power could deliver it post haste.

I learned this during the Bush years. His speech writer, an evangelical fundamentalist who worked previously for Charles Wendell Colson, would tuck tiny bits of "code" in here and there. Might be just a couple of words from an old Baptist hymn. I "got" the references, having had a Baptist grandfather who led the congregation in hymn singing. And so I know that when, for example, a WH speech writer has written the phrase "wonder working power"....it's like a dog whistle. And that's what I believe "Fire and Fury" is. And I don't believe Donald Trump wrote it."

and there it is.

[Not Ruth]

1. I thought that it sounded like a U2 album

[progressoid]

23. I thought he was misquoting a movie title

"In a world..."

[lunatica]

50. It reminded me of Shakespeare's Macbeth and The Sound of Fury...

Signifying nothing. That's an apt description of Trump as far as I'm concerned.

[elehhhhna]

2. And here I thought he just fucked up a line from Shakespeare which refers to him

"Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."


Macbeth Quote (Act V, Scene V).

[mountain grammy]

26. Very appropriate.

[Achilleaze]

3. Actually, it's the repube Anti-Christ that has all the stanky hate, anger & greed issues

Your regular, normal Christ is all about love, respect, brotherhood, that kinda stuff.

One does hope that the repubes and their evil-empire russian comrades will get a clue someday and turn their backs on their demonic FAKE Christ, and embrace the real deal, aka Prince of Peace.

[Ilsa]

42. Thank you! nt

[matt819]

4. Interesting. Also consider this.

If North Korea doesn't launch any missiles - nuclear or not - near Guam or toward the US, the buffoon in chief will take credit for the fear and trepidation he induced in Kim Jong-un, and he will use this to further cement support from his 39% base.

And if the North Koreans do launch missiles, the b-i-c is no worse off. Oh, sure, the world suffers, but he himself is no worse off. And that's all he cares about. He's already facing threats from the Mueller investigation, he already has a contentious relationship with Congress, etc. This sums up his entire life. He threatens and bullies. Sometimes he comes out on top. Sometimes he's sued. So what?

[delisen]

6. Is Donald Trump the Jim Jones of our generation?

Is his evangelical Minster feeding into his megalomania?

[tiredtoo]

14. Nailed it! eom

[lark]

20. His base isn't that high.

He was polling at 33% last week in at least 1 national poll. Haven't seen any where he was as high was 39% in a while.

[FM123]

5. Makes sense, when WE hear words like persist or resist, it definitely speaks to us.

[enough]

7. Look no further than Tom Waits. Down in the Hole (The Wire theme song).

Lyrics:

When you walk through the garden
You gotta watch your back
Well I beg your pardon
Walk the straight and narrow track
If you walk with Jesus
He's gonna save your soul
You gotta keep the devil
Way down in the hole

He's got the fire and the fury
At his command
Well you don't have to worry
If you hold on to Jesus hand
We'll all be safe from Satan
When the thunder rolls
We just gotta help me keep the devil
Way down in the hole


Strangely apt for our current moment.

[mr_lebowski]

71. That version sung by Steve Earle ...

[yodermon]

8. Read on Twitter that it's actually a World of Warcraft "thing". Total Steve Bannon influence. n/t

[robertpaulsen]

54. Makes sense. Bannon is a Catholic in the Scalia mold and has business ties with WoW.

So this turn of phrase is a two-fer. Dog whistles for gamers and End-Timers. Really makes me doubt that phrase is "improv."

[Gabi Hayes]

56. Samantha Bee had a segment that connected

all those dots last night

Pretty much said it was the key to Russia fake news link that put T over the top

Iirc, she attributed it to the Devil's Bargain
book......pretty fffin scary/nauseating

Must see TV, along with her Gorka piece

[robertpaulsen]

59. I would really love to see that!

Do you know if it has been put on youtube? Please post a link if you know, I'll be searching for it if you don't.

I think I found it:

[Gabi Hayes]

61. Amazing, wasn't it?

That author has been making the rounds

Been staying away from tube for mental health reasons, but keeping up here

That said, time for a break!

[robertpaulsen]

62. Funny and disturbing!

Your link was strictly funzies. Thanks!

[Gabi Hayes]

73. Watch other stuff on that page

That show goes as far as you can

Btw, I just got Devil's Bargain

[bigbrother05]

75. Makes sense, can see Putin in the Mephisto part

Not hard to believe he is the Devil's front man

[alterfurz]

9. or maybe he's just channeling a Marvel Comic villain...

[skip fox]

10. You're right:

It's rapture language, end times language, extinction rhetoric.

[Ford_Prefect]

11. Extinction Rhetoric Indeed..."Its my ball so we play by my rules"...Bully Speak 101

[Juliusseizure]

74. Bannon referenced it probably

He referenced Bane's speech from Batman in inauguration speech. Bain an alt-right hero for overthrowing elite on people's behalf.

Bannon's apocalyptic and worked in film and engaged in creative apocalyptic characters/genres.

[LudwigPastorius]

12. I believe Trump came up with it.

It's some kind of misguided negotiating tactic. Mirror your opponents verbiage, so that you appear strong.

He acts like he's trying to squeeze a real estate holder in a land deal instead of holding the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in his hands.

Also, I doubt Trump has any personal religious beliefs one way or the other, and, now that he's in office, he couldn't care less about catering to the bible thumpers

[H2O Man]

22. Respectfully disagree.

Last week, his "top religious adviser" said that "God" had selected Trump to confront North Korea. I don't believe in coincidence.

[LudwigPastorius]

31. I guess I just don't see a reason for Trump to be throwing red meat to evangelicals.

They already overwhelmingly support him.

[lark]

25. He was getting bad news on the Mueller front and so wanted a deflection.

His base loves war, as long as someone else is fighting it, so he chose that to fortify his fastly eroding base and to deflect from all the really bad news about the truth coming out about his, his family's' and friends' criminality.

[WinkyDink]

32. No way. He wouldn't know alliteration if it bit his fat arse.

[underpants]

51. It was clearly on a piece of paper in front of him

Just saying

[LudwigPastorius]

63. Not according to the NY Times.

Mr. Trump’s aides braced as he began to speak at the opioid event — his arms folded, jaw set and eyes flitting on what appeared to be a single page of talking points set before him on the conference table where he was sitting. The piece of paper, as it turned out, was a fact sheet on the opioid crisis.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/09/us/politics/trump-north-korea.html

[underpants]

65. I stand corrected.

[bigbrother05]

76. "I know you are, but what am I?"

3rd grade school yard bully.

"Bully Pulpit" doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

Anything that sounds coherent from Trump is likely a coded message from his enablers or something pushed by the Russian agenda.

[aikoaiko]

13. Makes me wonder if anyone Googles "covfefe" and Bible.

[KPN]

38. No, but I have googled "fefe" ... and it actually was

quite interesting if not somewhat crude and distasteful. So, while I actually almost believe Trump tweeted "covfefe" intentionally, I chose not to post what I found due to its nature.

[C_U_L8R]

77. Fire and Fefe.

[SHRED]

15. I thought he was channeling Game of Thrones.

[CatWoman]

17. me too

my original thought when I heard this is "great. now he thinks he's Danerys Targaryn"

[lark]

27. She's a million times the ruler he is.

She has true strength, he's a tiny little insecure man who bullies and threatens to hide the truth of his many failings and crimes.

[lunatica]

52. Who would piss his pants at the sight of a dragon

[mainer]

39. me three

Sounded like Dany.

[Hekate]

16. KnR

[czarjak]

18. Beware...

Theological nitwits in charge.

[H2O Man]

19. Recommended.

[defacto7]

21. I'm inclined to go along with this idea..

considering the dog whistle technique used by the administration and their cohorts. The dominionists in congress are salivating for a returning savior at their behest.

As for the words themselves there are plenty of sources for them as others have posted. The bible verse mentioned is the King James Version and though there are a few religious sects that use it as the one and only version of the word of god there are many other widely accepted translations and praphrased versions that may have different wording.

As a funny side note... the KJV we have today is not the King James Version at all, it's actually called the revised version so there goes the absolute word of god idea. Of course it's English not Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic as was ithe original... and to top it off, the translation of the KJV was funded and suported by King James who was gay and was buried next to his lover in Westminster Abby. Tell that to your favorite evanglical! Oh the irony.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

24. Kick

It sounded suspiciously like a ham-handedly updated Shock and Awe when I heard it, but these two theories are not mutually exclusive, and I think Grasswire's is also pretty compelling.

[RKP5637]

28. RW Christians looking for the rapture so they can float to heaven. Yes IMO, a dog whistle! n/t

[Dawson Leery]

29. kick

[LisaM]

30. If someone else wrote it (which sounds right to me), I think we have less to worry about.

It means he doesn't know it's coded language.

[bucolic_frolic]

33. Yes it really does seem the end is nigh

Once they've got something fixed in their craw, ain't no stoppin' 'em.

[Squinch]

34. Ah, yes. There's the peaceful Christianity of the evangelistic on display again...

[niyad]

35. somebody else said it was from "world of warcraft"--and who is the gamer in his little

cabal? bannon, of course.

[femmocrat]

37. Yes, I saw that on Twitter, too.

Last edited Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Seems like the least erudite possibility. The Bible or Shakespeare? Nah, not from those two.oo

On edit: I found a link to a tweet (from KO!):

Link to tweet

[anneboleyn]

46. Miller wrote it and it's from Game of Thrones ("fire and blood" is a powerful family's motto)

[zentrum]

36. Evangelicals in the WH

...is a big recent story. The headline from the Washington Post is:

God Has Given Trump Authority to Take Out Kim Jong Un

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/08/god-has-given-trump-authority-to-take-out-kim-jong-un-evangelical-adviser-says/?utm_term=.083857a3ebd1

It's beyond alarming.

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. The man barely knows what his professed faith is - the chances of him quoting Isaiah are nil

as far as I am concerned.

And even though he's decided to be publicly Christian to appeal to the right-wing Christian base, he wouldn't have ramped up to be smart enough to use those words to appeal to them on a theological basis.

He was merely trying to sound like a movie, and just accidentally put some words together that are in a verse in the Bible.

[bora13]

41. as I have said before

the religious fantastics have been
looking for their "saviour" for years.

they found him in the orange jeebus.

[Ken Burch]

43. I thought it was a rewrite of something Goebbels would plagiarize for ol' Adolf

Last edited Thu Aug 10, 2017, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

"Fire and Fury" almost sounds like "Sturm Und Drang".

(edited to reflect the fact that Goebbels didn't coin the phrase-who'd have thought Nazis might be unethical? )

[anneboleyn]

47. "Sturm Und Drang" was not coined by Goebbels. It is from early Romanticism (late 1700s)

It means "storm and stress" (rough translation) and is associated with Goethe and the famous German playwrights of the proto-Romantic movement in Germany. Goebbels had nothing to do with any of that -- if anything he read a bit of drama for his graduate work but that is all.

[Ken Burch]

48. OK...I've changed it to "it sounds like something Goebbels would plagiarize"

Thanks for the info.

[PatrickforO]

44. You've got a point. Or the person you're quoting does.

Silly me! And here I thought Trump turned a new phrase because, hey, 'shock and awe' is just SO 2000!

[anneboleyn]

45. Stephen Miller wrote it, and I still think he's quoting Game of Thrones b/c he would think it's cool

to quote a fantasy television show (which I happen to love so I cringe when I see it in this context) to threaten NK. That's the level of his mentality. The "fire and fury" echoes the motto of the Targaryen family, led by one of its last members Daenerys Targaryen, who has three dragons - the motto is "Fire and Blood." It seems too close to me especially given the show was on Sunday and the comments came out soon after.

I do think the evangelicals hear weird dog-whistle crap in Trump's speeches though (Alex Jones also toys with them). They will be very disappointed when the rapture never happens no matter what Trump does or doesn't do -- but that never seems to stop them, generation after generation, in believing in a literal, imminent rapture (Catholics do not for example).

[Wednesdays]

49. Marching as to war

I'm a fan of Arthur Sullivan's music, but I wish he hadn't penned that abomination of a hymn.

[drmeow]

53. Except that his remarks

were not scripted and completely off the cuff. And that asshole doesn't know his end of times dog whistles cause he doesn't know the bible. So, either he's been trained to use that phrase as part of military threats (and I don't think he's smart enough to be trained) or it is a coincidence.

[keithbvadu2]

55. Conservatives want to fix Gods mistakes in the Bible,

Conservatives want to fix God’s mistakes in the Bible.

https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=Conservapedia+fixing+the+bible&gws_rd=ssl

[LongTomH]

58. I think this is a dog-whistle for the evangelicals, end-timers, dominionists - NOT gamers

The 'Christian' right considers all forms of fantasy gaming to be tools of Satan. They've held to that since Dungeons & Dragons back in the '70s.

[Vinca]

60. Grasswire . . . come back!

[HenryWallace]

64. Interesting

Thanks!

[Lazy Daisy]

66. I've seen it compared

to Truman's speech for the Hiroshima bomb. That's probably where he got some of his "speech"
It's a family tradition to plagiarize speeches.

[Tatiana]

67. It was a dog whistle to the evangelicals.

Trump is a moron, but he is very purposeful with language. He has been trained very well in the art of buzz and catch phrases designed to elicit specific responses.

[Sunlei]

68. fire & fury is a spell from world of warcraft. the man plays games & buys cheats from bannon.

get a life

[MerryBlooms]

69. Good analysis.

Why not agree to DU TOS and post themselves? They used to be a valued member here... their voice is missed. I see they're a member at JPR though.

[Gore1FL]

70. My thoughts went more along the lines of Stephen King when I heard Fury and Fire:

[Brainstormy]

78. No, NO, NO!

too much reaching. The quote was an echo of Truman's speech after dropping the bomb on Hiroshima. Something Trump would definitely have heard and admired. Something he could remember.