What is your end game with respect to Trump being impeached?

[xajj4791]

There is a lot of traffic on here discussing the possible impeachment of Trump. When I think about it, i am on the fence because of what would come after. IF Trump is impeached, AND Pence goes with him due to further charges, we know who is next and that person is worse than either in my opinion.

Is there a route that does not end with someone worse than Trump in office?

Here are my justifications for Pence and Ryan being worse than Trump as POTUS:
1. They are career politicians who are more likely to be able to get what they desire as POTUS
2. They want to make the rich richer, break the poor as hard as possible, remove all safety nets (SS, Medic...)
3. Make abortion unconstitutional
4. Make discrimination constitutional against as many groups as possible that are not white males
5. The list actually keeps going on

These are the people who are extremist in view against most of Americans. The difference, in my opinion, is they have the political wherewithal to accomplish those goals since the GOP will not be fighting with them at every turn.

Please do not take this as an anti-impeachment thread, I abhor Trump as POTUS and the day he was elected I immediately lost faith in those millions of Americans who voted for him.

[ret5hd]

1. Your balancing act is transparent and useless.

Any publican replacement for drumpf will be no more than a Gerald Ford wannabe.

[anneboleyn]

36. EXACTLY. And Pence is disliked by the people of his OWN STATE. He wouldn't be rocking approval

numbers after a devastating impeachment based on Trump and co colluding with Russia, which would be discussed (if proven of course) as one of the worst crimes against the country in the history of our republic.

[yallerdawg]

2. Whoever takes Trump's place...

will be so hobbled they will merely be a placeholder until the next presidential election.

Can you think of any accomplishments of the Ford administration?

"Whatever" is better than a sociopath!

[Squinch]

5. LOL! We all posted the same thing at the same time!

[yallerdawg]

8. Of one thing I am certain.

Trump out is better than Trump in!

[Squinch]

11. The only good Trump(R)... is an impeached and resigned Trump(R). A GREAT Trump(R) is a jailed one.

[PJMcK]

19. Here are two accomplishments by President Ford

President Ford signed the Helsinki Accords, enabling détente in the Cold War with the Soviet Union.

When South Viet Nam was conquered by North Vietnam, President Ford withdrew all American troops only nine months into his presidency, ending U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

He was not a great president, of course. But he was dealt an impossible hand. The same fate would befall Trump's successor.

[yallerdawg]

23. All I remember...

is being required by my Commander-in-Chief Ford to - since I was technically a piece of government property - be injected with an experimental "swine flu" serum. We were all guinea pigs at the time.

Fortunately, I got a new Commander-in-Chief shortly after!

Whip Inflation Now!

[PJMcK]

35. Yeah, he wasn't that good

Of course, he wasn't that bad, either. Thankfully, he was only in office for a short period of time.

Nonetheless, I hate Republicans.

[anneboleyn]

37. And honestly Pence makes Ford look like a matinee star statesman in comparison. Pence is a total

bore when allowed to speak for more than a few minutes (think of how few times we've seen or heard from him), he will appear embarrassingly ill-qualified when meeting with foreign leaders, etc, and he's not even near Ford's level.

[PJMcK]

40. Gerald Ford was a decent gentleman

He worked with Democrats in a time when our legislators worked (mostly) for the good of the United States.

Pence is a treasonous hack. I am confident that he is up to his own eyeballs in the Russian scandal and I truly hope that Robert Mueller has him in the gunsights of his investigation as well as all the other scumbags in Trump's orbit. They all need to be taken down and flushed out of our government.

Ironically, by today's political calculus, President Ford might be considered a "Conservative Democrat."

An interesting side note: When he was in Congress, Mr. Ford was on the Warren Commission that investigated President Kennedy's assassination. Woody Allen once said that he was writing a musical, non-fiction version of the Warren Report!

1976 was the first year I could vote and I voted against Mr. Ford and enthusiastically for Jimmy Carter. Since then, I've always voted Democratic with a few minor local exceptions, (a judge and a selectman).


ETA: Sorry for the rambling!

[bluepen]

22. Completely agree. The one upside to having Pence or Ryan

is they're far less likely to cause an international incident because of their words and/or behavior. Also, because of their political experience they're more likely to handle a crisis in a way that doesn't get bungled from the start or get us all killed. THAT is one of my biggest worries with Trump: when a crisis occurs, this circus of a White House will be absolutely clueless.

But in the end, Trump's replacement will serve the remainder of Trump's term and be a footnote in history.

[workinclasszero]

42. The OP can end the post right here

You got this.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. Trump's name will be poison by the time of impeachment/removal, and no way Pence escapes that.

He'll be a lame duck through 2020. He won't be able to escape Trump's sordid legacy.

Yes, please go ahead and impeach Trump.

[PJMcK]

20. If Robert Mueller does his job, Pence doesn't stand a chance

I'm hopeful that Mr. Mueller will have a long list of indictments as his investigation continues. I expect they will include Trump, members of his family, Pence, Flynn, Manafort, and perhaps many others including certain members of the Congress and the Senate.

Anyone following Trump will have an impossible task. Perhaps even President Obama would find it a daunting task to restore faith and respect for the presidency.

[louis-t]

26. This is why I think Kid Rock will never get elected in MI.

He has aligned himself with dump and that will be his downfall. He may win the primary, but never the election.

[Squinch]

4. No one is worse than Trump.

And an impeachment AND removal would put them in the dog house for the rest of the term.

[Lee-Lee]

6. There is another possibly that should be considered

On politically hot potato cases prosecutors also are known to use a grand jury to evade accountability or blame when there isn't an indictment.

Instead of saying "I didn't find enough to prosecute" they get to say "look, I took everything we had to the grand jury and they didn't return an indictment, we tried" even if they knew they would not get an indictment taking it to the grand jury they still deflected responsibility for the outcome to them.

I don't see how in the world they couldn't find enough to get an indictment, it is clearly there even if it's just felony conspiracy charges, but you still have to keep it in mind that this is sometimes how prosecutors use grand juries.

[FSogol]

10. LOL

[Squinch]

13. Shoot. Now I'm going to worry. After that last election, we do have to remember that

any horrible thing is possible.

[marylandblue]

7. The worst thing aboit Trump is that he is mentally unstable

At least Ryan and Pence are level headed. They might get some of their conservative policies through, but at least they won't encourage violence or blow up the world.

[FSogol]

9. What replies #2 thru #4 said, plus consider the time involved in Trumpy's eventual removal.

Pence or Ryan (or any other shithead on the list) won't have enough time to dig their way out of the mess, put together a staff, and move forward (actually backward since it's the GOP). The clock will have run out.

[Gravitycollapse]

12. Pence has no public mandate. He will be as useless as Trump.

He may not be useless in quite the same hilariously dysfunctional fashion but he won't get anything done. As others have said too, his administration will be so tainted by the time he takes power that he'll be lucky to survive until the next election.

[SharonClark]

44. Not having a mandate never stops republicans from going crack head crazy

[procon]

14. Who's to say for certain that Pence isn't dirty and complicit in all this?

Next up would be the Speaker of the House. By the time we get to that point, with any luck, Nancy Pelosi will take back her gavel.

[maryellen99]

15. I think he's going to resign due to a medical emergency nt

[xajj4791]

16. Why do you feel it will be a lame duck....

If they retain a majority in both houses in 2018, any GOP replacement will get plenty done.

I do agree that they will be far less likely to entertain nuclear war or engagement in other actions before 2020.

[JDC]

17. Time for the Benedict Arnold torch to be passed to Trump

The next couple hundred years of the Trump "brand" being synonymous with treason will satisfy me I think ...

[loyalsister]

18. I don't see an end game

While kicking around possibilities is valid, I generally dislike any so called justice operations that begin with a goal of prosecution and imprisonment based on biases and even the most reasonable worries.

It seems like there is so much to sort out that thinking beyond such an outcomes is premature. Particularly when this is unprecedented and there are likely to be possibilities none of us has considered.

[WinkyDink]

24. So you're unaware of what's already known, re: felonious omissions on National Security

forms?

Illegal meetings with foreign entities during the campaign?

Possible obstruction of justice with Comey's firing?

[louis-t]

27. Don't forget witness tampering.

[loyalsister]

28. We were unaware of whether or not Clinton's was illegal enough

when the investigation began and even during the impeachment proceedings. It was not considered to be enough to warrant removal from office, and we were unnecessarily treated to the absurd spectacle of that argument. All because the impeachment was a manipulation of criminal procedure in pursiut of a predetermined goal.
Until they have evidence that is as indisputable as DNA evidence, it is too early for impeachment proceedings.

If we think we've got problems now, where would we be if a prosecutors suspicions are determined to not be a high crime or misdemeanor in this case? I'm just saying we should be sober and very cautious of violations of prosecutorial ethics and unintended consequences.

[WinkyDink]

21. The successor will not be demented or impulsive. Jr., Eric, Kushners: Out.

[scarytomcat]

25. I'm not for impeachment

Yes pence would be far worse and the dems if they move a little left will have trump to blame for bad government and all the waste. I also abhor trump and I think once again the election was questionable and the outcome unbelievable. We need to serious look into our voting machines and system or we will be saying this every election to come.

[JoeStuckInOH]

29. Careful what you wish for... any replacement WILL be a capable (R) politician.

which means a functioning whitehouse. And if this happens while R's still control the house & senate then you'll get a few younger SCOTUS Justices and just about any legislation they want to ram through.

So what's worse: A blithering orange nincompoop in the oval office or Pence / Paul Ryan / Orrin Hatch / Rex Tillerson / Steven Mnuchin ?

And that's just the first 5 turdballs in line. The next 10+ assholes are all handpicked by Trump.

[anneboleyn]

38. They will be crippled by the Russia collusion mess. No way would Pence or Ryan sail along happily

passing unpopular legislation after such a massive political disaster (plus there will be constant whispers about their own possible involvement or knowledge even if they are never charged)

[JoeStuckInOH]

43. They have No shame. They will distance the R base from the Trumpsters

right before the final show drops. Once trump and anyone mired in the Russian shitstorm are kicked out, it will be R business as usual... without checks & balances because the house, senate, Whitehouse and SCOTUS are all (R).

[KentuckyWoman]

30. Won't happen

Neither party is strong enough to make it happen alone. The group of Republicans who welcomed this train wreck as a useful diversion now, realizing it's out of control, are choosing to do nothing and wait it out.

If Democrats don't blow it, and we often do, 2020 will be ours for the taking. Hopefully we'll find someone willing to wade through and wear the stink the giant pile of trash left behind. We'll be able to count on the Republicans to blame the people with the brooms and Windex for the mess.

Could be wrong but that's how it's worked my entire lifetime.

[BannonsLiver]

31. My concern is this

Trump is impeached and everyone gets in rally round the flag mode with Pence including the media. There will be a lot of calls for national unity blah blah blah. All of that would benefit Pence.

But it's all worth it to get Trump out. The playbook on beating radical Christian nutbags like Pence is thick.

[Raine]

32. I want Trump to stay

I don't want Pence. Pence might actually know what he's doing which would really really be bad.

[anneboleyn]

39. Judging by his disastrous term as gov of Indiana he really does NOT know what he's doing, and he

has never been on the national stage (he's been kept out of the spotlight entirely since January). He will not win much sympathy as he lacks charisma, he's boring, and anyone associated with Trump will have that skunk smell.

[Raine]

45. Good to know, I really know nothing about him but

figured he couldn't be as lacking in knowing how to handle things as Trump. Apparently he's as big a buffoon just looks less like one.

[smirkymonkey]

33. One upside is that none of the possible replacements have the cult-like following

that Trump has. Trump has emboldened a certain segment of society to act upon their racist, sexist, hateful impulses and if he's out of the picture, they may not feel as entitled to act out their sick impulses. They won't go away, but with their hero out of power they may split up into warring factions who will scatter their loyalties.

None of the other republicans in line to replace Trump have the momentum that he has/had and I think that is going to throw the party into turmoil.

[trof]

34. There's nothin' surer, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer...

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[jmg257]

41. I think it'll be Pence who gets to take over. It won't be anytime soon if forced...mid next year?

And trump is SO far out there and Pence has been so disconnected that he won't be too tarnished by the ongoing circus.

he'll seem sane and professional after the chaos.

[Willie Pep]

46. Pence will be treated like a normal Republican in the media.

This would give him some aura of respectability. Most people are not into politics that much so they likely don't know much about Pence's record but they would look at how he carries himself and say "well, he seems like a good guy." I hate to say it but that is how many Americans approach politics.

The Trump circus, on the other hand, is hard to ignore and many people are turned off by his antics. Basically I worry that Pence would be a more competent president and get more legislation passed and would get more of a pass from the media and the public because he seems respectable unlike the clownish Trump.