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if immigrants have to, shouldn't those actually BORN here be required to speak English? (Original Post) niyad Aug 2017 OP
I have trouble understanding what people from southern and western states are saying most of the shraby Aug 2017 #1
Why? When most Americans can not speak proper English in the first place. Doreen Aug 2017 #2
But, in order for that to happen, we would have to actually teach English, and that would Stonepounder Aug 2017 #3
sadly, you are absolutely correct. niyad Aug 2017 #4
I find it amusing when I properly pronounce a word and Doreen Aug 2017 #5
it amuses me as well. as does someone incorrectly correcting my correct spelling. niyad Aug 2017 #6
I have a friend who pronounces the h in the word Thyme. Doreen Aug 2017 #7
does it grate on you like fingernails on chalkboards? niyad Aug 2017 #8
Yes Doreen Aug 2017 #9
Oh, wait, they do not know what a dictionary is.....sorry....me bad. Doreen Aug 2017 #10
you cosmopolitan elitist, you!! niyad Aug 2017 #11
Aww shucks. Doreen Aug 2017 #12
May I join this elitist cosmopolitan group? Pacifist Patriot Aug 2017 #13
Yes, you may. Doreen Aug 2017 #14
"Indeed, you may." niyad Aug 2017 #17
I'm bringing mimosas. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2017 #18
ahhh, bless you!! niyad Aug 2017 #20
Does she agree about words like "Christian?" Wounded Bear Aug 2017 #23
when an American English teacher corrected my English mum's pronunciation of ALUMINIUM Skittles Aug 2017 #25
When asked to write a story about where he went on vacation over the summer, appleannie1943 Aug 2017 #26
Is this teacher friends with DeVos? I have never heard or seen Pittsburgh being spelled Doreen Aug 2017 #27
All varieties of English are dialects. Igel Aug 2017 #15
Fewer and less TeapotInATempest Aug 2017 #28
If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be allowed to be born, PERIOD. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #16
Please state unequivocally where our "National Language" is defined by law... Wounded Bear Aug 2017 #19
I am not the one touting english only, or english first. but, if these yahoos are going to niyad Aug 2017 #22
Define your use of "required" DavidDvorkin Aug 2017 #21
K&R for, bwah-HAH!1 UTUSN Aug 2017 #24

shraby

(21,946 posts)
1. I have trouble understanding what people from southern and western states are saying most of the
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 12:46 PM
Aug 2017

time. Also from W. Virginia and Texas. Actually I can't figure out how they ever learn to spell.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
2. Why? When most Americans can not speak proper English in the first place.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 12:47 PM
Aug 2017

I actually agree with you about that. I just had to make a snotty comment.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
3. But, in order for that to happen, we would have to actually teach English, and that would
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 12:48 PM
Aug 2017

require actual Public Schools that taught the 3R's. A the current SecEd wants to get rid of Public Schools and go back to teaching ... ummmm... Aramaic?

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
5. I find it amusing when I properly pronounce a word and
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 12:52 PM
Aug 2017

people correct me. I tell them to speak to my mother who is a teacher and has two masters in English.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
7. I have a friend who pronounces the h in the word Thyme.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 12:58 PM
Aug 2017

I correct her and she says words should never have a silent h. Well, maybe so but the fact is that it does so pronounce the damn thing correctly!

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
9. Yes
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 01:09 PM
Aug 2017

I get yelled at by idiots for pronouncing Obscene, Obscure, and other words like them with "ah" instead of "ub." Look in the damn dictionary.

Skittles

(153,272 posts)
25. when an American English teacher corrected my English mum's pronunciation of ALUMINIUM
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:29 PM
Aug 2017

she responded, "It's MY bloody language."

appleannie1943

(1,303 posts)
26. When asked to write a story about where he went on vacation over the summer,
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:41 PM
Aug 2017

my grandson wrote about his trip to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to visit he grandparents. His teacher marked it wrong because she said he spelled Pittsburgh incorrectly and she crossed out the H. He came home crying. My daughter gave him a coffee mug and lanyard from Pittsburgh to give to the teacher.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
27. Is this teacher friends with DeVos? I have never heard or seen Pittsburgh being spelled
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:02 PM
Aug 2017

without the h. I hope she got the point. Gave your son the last laugh.

Igel

(35,386 posts)
15. All varieties of English are dialects.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 01:55 PM
Aug 2017

In fact, part of a reasonable definition of a language as opposed to a "code" is that it has varieties suited to various contexts. The frequency of grammatical forms and lexical items varies by context fairly consistently.

Not everybody has a colloquial register, but most do. Not everybody has a formal, academic register, because that's highly artificial. It tends to reflect written norms--and remember, reading and writing are fairly new things for the human brain--and is very explicit.

When "regional" languages like Galician or most of the First People's languages or even widespread languages like Swahili or Hausa encounter science they have to innovate, make up or form words, for new things. They also tend to take what's relegated to the corners of spoken language and include them. Most people don't use a lot of hypotaxis in their speech.

I speak standard English, pretty much. My dialect natively uses the subjective and it drives me slightly crazy when people say "It's important that he's there tomorrow". I also have a strong distinction between "many" and "more", "fewer" and "less." I maintain the distinction in vowels between "Don" and "Dawn" lost in most varieties of English--almost nobody in California, for instance, or West of the Mississippi unless they have strong NE influence, has this distinction. On the other hand, I have a rhotic in "Washington", "wash," "water."

Had a friend whose English was fairly standard. Didn't have a rhotic "wash" but did say things like "this needs cleaned" instead of using the verbal noun "this needs cleaning."

And, no, you're not going to make speaking a specific form of English for citizens a requirement. For instance, I know African-Americans who didn't master "NBC English" and who'd fall under your sanction. (And, no, if I say it's "Ebonics" then there are going to be a whole lot of new languages formed from what used to be called English. Take "Scotts", considered by some to be a different language. Their primary argument is nationalist and separatism. So it is with "Ebonics". It's AAVE.)

"Standard" is a narrowed range of alternatives. And it reflects some sort of power relationship--one that anybody can join, but which tends to be required for admission. Nobody expects immigrants to master English. But more than a few times I've gone into a store or restaurant and had to order in a language other than English. In a deeply ethnic neighborhood, I could see this: your language limits you and you're stuck there, unable to advance or even be decently educated. But when it's not, all it means is that the employer really scraped the bottom of the barrel. I've been in other countries, and typically these "enlightened" countries have all pretty much believed that it's an insult to move there and after a year or five still not bother to learn the language or basic elements of culture. (It's rather like snooty British officers who'd go to India and insist everybody learn their language in a lot of ways. "You adapt to me, sucker." I feel sorry for immigrants who are here and don't learn the language. If only because of the kids I failed in the last couple of years, probably half of them were born here and really didn't want to learn English.)

Some will defend this when the language is Spanish. If it's Chinese or Russian, not to much.

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
28. Fewer and less
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:03 PM
Aug 2017

I cannot tell you how it grates on me when people use "less" when they mean "fewer". Just as someone would never say "It needs fewer sugar", no one should say "there were less people there", for example.

I don't care if it makes me "elitist". Words have meaning, damn it!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
16. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be allowed to be born, PERIOD.
Thu Aug 3, 2017, 01:57 PM
Aug 2017
Sorry, no one gets in unless they already speak English.

niyad

(113,798 posts)
22. I am not the one touting english only, or english first. but, if these yahoos are going to
Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:10 PM
Aug 2017

make ability to speak english a litmus test, then shouldn't native-born speakers have to demonstrate the same level of competence?

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