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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFormer senior Obama official said. I feel like we sort of choked. (Washington Post)
Obama weighed pre-election retaliation against Moscow for the Russian assault on the US election. The Obama administration debated dozens of options for deterring or punishing Russia, including cyberattacks on infrastructure, the release of CIA material to embarrass Putin, and sanctions that could crater the Russian economy.
Instead, he expelled 35 Russian diplomats and closed two compounds. Obama also approved an operation in late December to embed "digital bombs" in Russias infrastructure that could be detonated if the US found itself in an escalating exchange with Moscow. The project was still in its planning stages when he left office, leaving Trump to decide whether to use the capability.
It is the hardest thing about my entire time in government to defend, a former senior Obama official said. I feel like we sort of choked. (Washington Post)
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,790 posts)Anyone who rants now that one or another simple action should have been taken immediately:
1) Does not have all the information available the Obama did.
2) Does not have the weight of pondering the effects on the Hillary campaign, including blowback that could have cost her the popular vote and the Electoral College (since it seemed at the time that she was going to win).
3) DOES have the benefit of hindsight writing now.
4) Is still not in full possession of the facts since the history is still being uncovered. Unless perhaps they are Putin.
padah513
(2,483 posts)Rachael explained some of it last night and there really was no good choice. Trump had already fed his crowd red meat to expect voter fraud, and if voting machines had started malfunctioning all over the place, namely in Trump leaning districts, mad chaos would have followed. I don't know how we avoid this in the immediate future unless we go to a nationwide paper ballot system. I read somewhere on here that Oregon has a full mail-in system in place, but I'm not familiar with it.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)comes down the pike? I heard Maddow last night making that argument and found it defensive and lame.
There was very little downside to Obama making a national address from the Oval Office on what was happening/had happened. It was a cyber equivalent of Pearl Harbor. The denizens of the alternate reality universe were going to believe what they'd believe regardless, but fortunately, as polls show, the majority of Americans are capable of understanding issues. Those are the people he'd have been addressing.
Clearly he dropped the ball, probably knows it and likely regrets it. But it's water over the dam now and we all have to deal with and correct the consequences.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)The majority of us will, though. His regrets won't help us.
karynnj
(59,475 posts)You know only that there would be one. Consider that Trump benefited from the fact that one of the few issues he, likely just by being the Republican, polled well on was terrorism. If this was raised as an imminent threat, that gives terrorism more weight.
Not to mention when HRC raised the 17 agencies calling Russia the hacker, Trump immediately came back with it meaning Russia saw Obama as weak..... and HRC had been his SoS. See any video of the "you're a puppet" remarks in the last debate.
Also, nothing in the WP article suggests they knew then of any complicity of Trump.
BumRushDaShow
(127,331 posts)Had he escalated it as so many people keep demanding in hindsight, then the narrative would have shifted to HIM and away from Hillary and what her plans were should she get elected. I.e., the media at that time not only REFUSED to do any fact-checking, but engaged in extreme "false narratives", and "horse race" scenarios in order to generate ratings.
When you don't own or control the media apparatus, you have no way to effectively get the message out.
Had he done the equivalent of a Carter "malaise" speech, the RW goons would have countered - "then vote for us because we will protect you from the evil Obama, the evil libbbrruuullll Nancy Pelosi Democrats, the evil terrorists and bad hombres, and the evil hackers". It would have made a bad media situation worse.
The technical issues surrounding "hacking" in general, are completely lost on the majority of the population. The even more nebulous "meddling in the election" makes this worse. They don't care about the who or the why, just that they hate robocalls and spam and scams.
karynnj
(59,475 posts)Note that Reagan and Iran colluded to hold the hostages until he was elected. Nixon and Kissinger colluded with South Vietnam to spike LBJ's peace deal, which included the same terms that we got years later. (Half the names on the VN wall were for people who died because the war did not end in 1968.) If you think about it, any foreign country or even non state actor that creates a crisis could create an "October surprise" It is entirely possible that OBL did by sending out that tape the week before the election in 2004 - until that tape came out, Kerry was gaining momentum.
Not to mention, what about the meddling of the Koch Brothers and others who may have developed the primitive versions of spreading lies that were used in earlier elections.
BumRushDaShow
(127,331 posts)(have had a subscription since 1976)
The news stations had a split screen of the swearing-in and the hostages stepping off the plane and I know me and my mother did a collective
The (modern, post-1964) GOP has always used "dirty tricks" to win. And of course knowing that we were on to them, they needed the Russian "push" to supplement Comey's "October Surprise". Of course Comey has found himself not only thrown under the bus but run over several times by the hand that fed him.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,700 posts)karynnj
(59,475 posts)In addition, they were concerned that Russia might retaliate by directly blowing up the election.
That they thought this possible, suggests we need to make our process much stronger so that is not possible in the future.
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)Really disgusting to see some try to use this as a bludgeon to settle old grievances.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Unpopular to say and hard to say, but I said it at the time. BO whom I thought (past tense) was the greatest president in my lifetime, dropped the ball in the fourth quarter, stood aside and let the other team, an enemy to this country, walk into the end zone and win the game
Except it's not a game is it?
What did they have to lose? Everything.
Now they are dismantling his legacy.history will not be kind to our former president .
And we are all fucked over
Dem2
(8,166 posts)This sort of after the fact navel-gazing is vile.
It's not a smear and it's not vile. At all.
So many people here treat this place like it's a fan club. It's ridiculous. Obabma is not infallible.
I have no idea what you think Obama could have done but you are wrong and piling on after-the-fact is not grown up behavior.
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)However I suggest you read the full WAPO article if you haven't already before you draw your conclusions. I'll get you a link in a second, as well as a summary written by DU'er Still_One.
Here you go:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.30b30c2b2c9f
Obamas secret struggle to punish Russia for Putins election assault
The White House debated various options to punish Russia, but facing obstacles and potential risks, it ultimately failed to exact a heavy toll on the Kremlin for its election meddling.
By Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima, and Adam Entous
June 23, 2017
Still_One's summary:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9246214
GusBob
(7,286 posts)People around here would be howling bloody murder
For years after 9/11 it was all LIHOP/MIHOP
GusBob
(7,286 posts)But this may seem like after the fact indeed except,
when I first heard about this hacking business, I was at first hoping PBO would do something.
After the fact he did very little while still POTUS, that's when I became disappointed
Dem2
(8,166 posts)nor the TREMENDOUS blowback he'd receive if it appeared that his actions BEFORE the election affected the outcome of the election, it would be foolhardy to assume what his options were and if they'd trigger a civil war. Let's not play this game.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)Ya think Trumpski is gonna do anything about this?
Hell to the fucking no!
The Russians have won the civil war my friend
Dem2
(8,166 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)In 20/20 this shit goes on again, or 2018 even....what's Trump gonna do about it?
If he does nothing more than PBO are we gonna say--it's OK pal no appearance of meddling!
Or god help me what if they say--well look at how Barack handled it, we are gonna do same! They certainly won't do anything stronger. Ironic, eh, given their anti Obama anthem
Puts them, and us in a little dilemma I reckon
I'm sorry for the agitation this story upsets me sideways
Well said.
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)And Monday morning quarterbacking is fun.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)And I was saying these things when he was still in office and the news of the hacking came out.
You know, when he actually could've done something, way back then
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)And imposed sanctions against Russia. Et cetera.
They shut down two US Russian compounds used for espionage.
They did do some things wrong but to claim they didn't do anything is incorrect.
IMHO The main thing they did wrong was believing Clinton would win the election.
But can I condemn them for that as I Monday-morning-quarterback? No because it would be damn hypocritical on my part.
FWIW It is very interesting to me that Trump is working to give those compounds back to Russia. I linked an article above.
Reminder: This tweet is a self serving lie:
Link to tweet
-------
Link to WAPO if you haven't had a chance to read it in full:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.30b30c2b2c9f
Obamas secret struggle to punish Russia for Putins election assault
The White House debated various options to punish Russia, but facing obstacles and potential risks, it ultimately failed to exact a heavy toll on the Kremlin for its election meddling.
By Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima, and Adam Entous
June 23, 2017
Still_One's summary:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9246214
GusBob
(7,286 posts)I don't need the WP to tell me what I already know. I have been following this story from the beginning.
Why? Because this is important shit and everybody needs to remember this: Putin is KGB spy first and foremost.
He hated Clinton. But this story goes beyond the election and politics and straight to leadership.
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)Says it all right there.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)They stole the Senate, possibly the House, as well as the Presidency. And they've got one SCOTUS appointment already, with rumors of another!
Ain't no do-over.
inwiththenew
(972 posts)Or at least it appears that way. I'm an outsider so I can't say for certain but from where I sit it looks like a foreign power compromised one of the fundamental bedrocks that our Republic is built upon. Arguably this long term could be worse than Pearl Harbor.
BumRushDaShow
(127,331 posts)because the states control the election infrastructure. During the past year, the feds offered states assistance and apparently a bunch of refused.
|***States Rebuffed Federal Help on Russian Hacking, Says Former DHS Head
My staff and I repeatedly encouraged state and local election officials to seek our cybersecurity assistance.
David Corn Jun. 21, 2017 11:40 AM
Appearing before the House Intelligence Committee task force investigating the Russian attack on the 2016 election, former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson had a troubling message: During that campaign, he had a tough time convincing state election officials that they needed federal help to fend off Moscows assault on the US elections system. While Johnson was testifying, Department of Homeland Security and FBI officials told the Senate Intelligence Committee that Russian cyber operatives had targeted 21 state election systems, although they didnt provide details on what those attacks entailed. For his part, Johnson described how he became worried about this secret Russian operation and found it difficult to work with state officials to defend the voting systems.
Johnson recounted all this in his opening statement:
As summer 2016 progressed, my concerns about the possibility of a cyberattack around our national election grew. I probed with the cybersecurity experts at DHS what more we could and should be doing. We developed a plan to engage state election officials to offer our cybersecurity assistance to them. My staff also suggested to me that I could, under my existing authorities, declare election infrastructure to be critical infrastructure in this country. There are 16 infrastructure sectorse.g., financial services, dams, transportation, government facilities, the defense industrial basethat are already considered critical infrastructure. By adding election infrastructure to that list, for cybersecurity purposes it would principally mean two things: (1) that election officials, upon request, would be a top priority for the receipt of DHSs services, and (2) that, as part of critical infrastructure, election infrastructure would receive the benefit of various domestic and international cybersecurity protections.
On August 3, 2016, in an on-the-record session with reporters, I publicly floated the idea of designating election infrastructure in this country as critical infrastructure.
Twelve days later, on August 15, I convened a conference call with secretaries of state and other chief election officials of every state in the country. I told state officials that we must ensure the security and resilience of election infrastructure, and offered DHSs assistance to the states in doing that. I also reiterated the idea of designating election infrastructure as critical infrastructure.
To my disappointment, the reaction to a critical infrastructure designation, at least from those who spoke up, ranged from neutral to negative. Those who expressed negative views stated that running elections in this country was the sovereign and exclusive responsibility of the states, and they did not want federal intrusion, a federal takeover, or federal regulation of that process. This was a profound misunderstanding of what a critical infrastructure designation would mean, which I tried to clarify for them.
<...>
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/states-rebuffed-federal-help-on-russian-hacking-says-former-dhs-head/ ***|
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)The Russian interference and what Comey did, which was in fact just as devastating as what the Russians were doing.
Obama - who may go down in history as "the Hamlet of presidents" - COULD have come out forcefully and impacted the election, but essentially chose to do nothing.
There is still a lot to unpack here.
BeyondGeography
(39,285 posts)jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)Bravo.
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)bresue
(1,007 posts)No other President in our country has ever had this serious and complex issue and to be honest, no playbook ever written for this situation.
The fact that the staff discussed and evaluated for many long hours, and then attempted to speed up investigating and offering assistance to hacked voter offices to remedy, makes me relieved because it shows that a totalitarian government was not in place, which I can not say for now!
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)IMHO
Obama, his administration, intelligence, and even Comey did what they did thinking that HRC was going to win and they didn't want to undermine her or themselves by looking like they were helping her.
Oneironaut
(5,463 posts)Putin played his hand, and Obama just sat back and gave a token response. This left the Russians emboldened and Trump as President.
IMO, Obama's foreign policy will be regarded by history as a failure. He failed to resist Putin's meddling, and did next to nothing when it was happening. This was a terrible mistake.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)And we're left to live in this shitstorm.
jalan48
(13,798 posts)Skittles
(152,967 posts)we wasted so much fucking time
Last edited Sat Jun 24, 2017, 09:41 PM - Edit history (1)
It always comes back to this. Bipartisan. Wanting Republicans to work with him.
Jesus for once I wished he'd just done the thing that would obtain the desired result regardless if Republicans were on board or whatever.
Skittles
(152,967 posts)she would not have wasted one minute trying appease those lying bastards
Skittles
(152,967 posts)YOU PAVED THE WAY FOR RUSSIA TO INSTALL THAT ORANGE BUFFOON INTO THE WHITE HOUSE