General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI want it to be true more than anyone. But Mensch, Schindler and Taylor are hurting our credibility
We need real stories and sources before we can get excited about possible arrests and impeachments. They are click bait, teases, letdowns.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)pnwmom
(108,995 posts)beware
librechik
(30,676 posts)So who the hell are "you?"
Norbert9
(494 posts)And by "our" I mean Democrats. Hence democraticunderground.com
Who the hell are you?
librechik
(30,676 posts)why do you want to kick people out? Mensch and so on are entitled to their opinion. I'm entitled to make up my own mind about them. So are you. But being a purist instead of a pluralist-- I just don't get it.
Takes all kinds, tho. There's still folks on the forum that hate Hillary.
Norbert9
(494 posts)I'm thinking of how to include, dare I say it, those who voted for him. When Mensch et al make unsubstantiated claims that fall through, us falling all over it is only going to push those voters away in the long run.
librechik
(30,676 posts)Trump voters are not welcome in my tent. Not at this time. That tent is too big for me.
Norbert9
(494 posts)*Corrected for the electoral college and voter suppression
librechik
(30,676 posts)the more the merrier right? Or-- I guess size is more important to bros than others.
Norbert9
(494 posts)There are numerous body parts I would sacrifice to see this monster impeached. I don't need to prove anything to you.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)who haven't completely lost their minds switching parties in disgust, or just leaving the GOP and not voting, would change everything.
And so many pubs have lost their minds as a result gulping fake news and conspiracy kool-aid. They can't be reached by facts because they know they're not true.
Apparently the pleasure of being fed what people want to hear can be very addictive, and these threads here on DU suggest left-wing fake news and conspiracism may be also.
tazkcmo
(7,302 posts)My tent has no room for racists, homophobes, misogynists or religious extremists. Lay down with dogs, rise up with fleas.
shraby
(21,946 posts)I have two brothers that can stand in the rain rather than step into the dryness of our tent. They prefer a smaller, individual sized tent anyway.
ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)would be a fight against the Democratic Party -- we don't pander to Trump's base.
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)who aren't his base. They did it unhappily. They did it bc they are lifelong republicans. Those people are shocked at what DT is doing now. They're really disturbed at his presidency and really ready to throw in the towel.
ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)thought the career politicians would reign him in. It's not happening, though. His buffoonery is really shining through.
mcar
(42,376 posts)This ridiculous idea of reaching out to the racists and sexists who voted for this sociopath s over.
Stop voter suppression!
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)if you want them to vote against him next time.
Norbert9
(494 posts)I don't trust the values and judgment of those who voted for 45 and they'll have to go along way before I want them anywhere near our 'tent'.
And 2, I certainly trust Mensch more as she was the first to recognize the importance of the 'British Dossier' and bring it to the attention of the security services. And I have to wonder, since his complete turnaround, if they nailed CHaffetz.
Nevermypresident
(781 posts)IMO, a majority of trumpers will never see the light and do not want to!
For that reason, I could care less.
BTW, have you watched Faux News lately?
My response to the subject of your post - I read those bloggers you mentioned and I will continue to. These days, I question MSM as well!
moda253
(615 posts)And I have no room in my tent.
SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)brush
(53,876 posts)Did you vote for trump?
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)she's not giving her opinion. She is writing unsubstantiated claims about prosecution and Warrants. If she is right, great. But I think if she is wrong, the people who follow her will have no faith in her and lose confidence in the process. It's dangerous to over-promise.
I do think it's only a small number of over politically savvy readers who even know who she is, though.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)librechik
(30,676 posts)They truly believe it's CT. And these are supposedly Dems.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)Did you miss that?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050935
brush
(53,876 posts)get the red out
(13,468 posts)The investigation of Trump admin-Russian ties isn't a conspiracy theory. That doesn't validate the sources of everyone on twitter concerning the state of that investigation, but twitter is going to be twitter.
Trump is doing a great job of damning himself again today!
still_one
(92,422 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Norbert9
(494 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)has been right at every turn. You are promoting disinfo with the wedge.
Deza all day long.
Norbert9
(494 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)warrants, and he was right. Nice try. no dice, DEZA all day long.
librechik
(30,676 posts)Norbert9
(494 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Nice try for a nice try.
Norbert9
(494 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Had you done so, you would have defeated your own narrative.
He (or, in this case, she) made no claim of arrests. They both suggested that arrests were possible today. Today's not over, BTW.
If they happen tomorrow or next week or next month were they wrong?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Nice try. Deza all day long.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)pnwmom
(108,995 posts)brush
(53,876 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)means "pro Trump's lies."
tazkcmo
(7,302 posts)Care to provide examples of that? From what I've seen, in reference to Russiagate, the folks you mention are batting1.000. I'm no baseball expert, but I hear that's a pretty good average.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Iggo
(47,571 posts)oasis
(49,410 posts)Norbert9
(494 posts)oasis
(49,410 posts)ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)If the warrants are sealed then none of them can tell you exactly what will be done except that the warrants will be executed (btw, that happened -- not a conspiracy theory but it's indeed, FACT!) Possibly arrests today, if not today then soon (your interpretation of that statement is what's hanging you up -- hence, you're using a flawed interpretation of what was actually posted so don't spread that misinformation because it will effect your credibility.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)Who's making shit up now?
Norbert9
(494 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Not fucking likely. Those three are the crown jewels of citizen reporting.
VOX
(22,976 posts)BYO hazmat suit.
Ilsa
(61,698 posts)We aren't the news media. I hope no one is placing big bets in Las Vegas over any shit speculated on here.
Yeah, there are some letdowns, but there are also things in the works, and a few people either know the actors, or they have professional experience and have a sense of predictability.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Where are your scoops on Trump's collusion?
Where were you on election day?
What did you post that morning?
Please pass along your Twitter handle so we can read your reports.
FBI has FISA warrant for Trump secret server connected to Russia.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)One needs to look at every claim, its likelihood, the reputation and track record of those reporting it. Sometimes, one can implicitly trust the reliability of a story; other times, reject it out of hand. Then, there's a third category, where such factors are inconclusive enough that the only sensible conclusion is that it might be the case, but you need to hold off on a final judgment until more facts come to light.
The point is, there's just as much danger, with the middle-ground cases, of jumping to a reflexive rejection as an uncritical acceptance. Think back to 1972: "Watergate? Who's reporting that's significant? A couple of minor-league stringers for the Post? And they're basing it on secret info from some anonymous guy they meet in an abandoned garage? With a porn-film pseudonym? Please
until I see a story with recognizable sources, covered by a James Reston or New York Times, this whole thing is nothing but clickbait" (or its 1970s equivalent).
tblue37
(65,490 posts)they managed to get confirmation from other sources--specifically to prevent the paper from losing credibility.
Now, though, even papers with traditionally sterling reputations act like shameless gossip rags, so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.
Norbert9
(494 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)I think most people are properly cynical.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)dalton99a
(81,599 posts)drray23
(7,637 posts)that most of what they tweeted ahead of time turned out to be true.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)Or just Mensch ,Taylor and Schindler mentions? Scepticism is alive and well among DUers.
Speculation and gossip has it's place.How boring life would be without it.I need more than intellect driven content.I come here to learn and share ideas, yes, but I also come here to rage , scream , laugh and connect.DU is a great emotional outlet for me.Gossip and speculation are a part of that.I'm not worried about this sites credibility at all.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)hatrack
(59,593 posts)And in case you were wondering, we're not a bunch of gullible idiots waiting for the magic beans to sprout.
But thanks for your concern.
OnDoutside
(19,974 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)THank you
wryter2000
(46,082 posts)I was burned by Fitzmas. I don't need any more of that.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)do you remember who was pushing Fitzmas?
I can help if you'd like.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Before we judge the materials we're reading today.
Frankly, I like Mensch and Taylor's track record thusfar. Seems there's a lot of folks on DU that want to assail them for all their misses but nary a comment for their hits.
Why don't we let history decide their place in newsworthiness?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)MedusaX
(1,129 posts)/Consulting firm in Annapolis... (by Washington based FBI)
Is just a hoax / clickbait tease ?
So fucking what if someone's source said "Washington FBI RICO based warrants to be executed tomorrow"
And it was interpreted as arrest warrant en vez de search warrant...
It is still a valid FBI RICO warrant based fucking activity related to the 2016 GOP campaign/Election activities ....
So, tell me again why you think we should just wait around and dismiss every thing as FAKE NEWS
unless somebody can produce
a 30 min full color video w/ Dolby quality sound
That shows both putin & 45 in a well lit setting
From a minimum of 5 camera angles...
in which 45 says verbatim ... no variation allowed..
"I donald j trump hereby acknowledge that I have, am currently, and will continue to conspire with you
Vlad Putin, distinguished leader of the great country of Russia,
in return for your having provided cyber hacking services
which ultimately falsified the actual vote tallies in the 2016 Presidential election in order to guarantee that I would have enough electoral college votes to be declared the 45th POTUS."
Norbert9
(494 posts)WaPo report does not at all support your claims.
FBI raids Maryland GOP consultant over 2013 Virginia race
The FBI confirmed it served a search warrant in Annapolis, Maryland, but declined to elaborate. Kelley Rogers, president of Strategic Campaign Group, told reporters the investigation relates to work the consultant did for former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, the GOPs 2013 gubernatorial candidate.
Please do go on though. Your vulgarity makes your argument seem stronger.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Last edited Thu May 11, 2017, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)
yet you cite the claim of the target of an investigation?
Maybe he's telling the truth, but ouch anyway.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)On the surface, it is that.
But folks have been connecting Bannon, Mercer, Manafort & Stone to this raided company. The FBI might be picking up financial tentacles for them to follow for their Russian investigation while they're looking into whatever criminal issue arose in the particular state civil case.
emulatorloo
(44,187 posts)As to Mench et al, trash thread is your friend.
brush
(53,876 posts)Thanks for your concern though.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)I'm a consumer of their efforts but do not 100% vouch for every word they've said.
If they're wrong, it's their credibility on the line - not mine.
So far, they seem to have been closer to the mark than most in terms of snippets of facts they've come up with so their sources must be fairly decent over such a lengthy period of time.
I'd say the White House credibility and/or Trump's credibility is the credibility that really been significantly hurt over the last 110+ days - look at the polling drop on his honesty or job approval.
and then we see stuff like this:
Claude Taylor's tweets confirmed by CNN's "exclusive" yesterday.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050935
Brent Budowsky (The Hill) echoes Louise Mensch's reporting on recordings in Trump/Russia
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050966
Justice
(7,188 posts)I've read stories in the NYT that have been proven to be false.
TNLib
(1,819 posts)They have been right about somethings. If we see actual arrests and indictments in the next couple of days then I'd say they were mostly right otherwise I'll think they're just bs or "fake news"
ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)They don't need to be accurate 100% (as long as they're not deliberately posting false info) but I don't agree that it's click bait. The majority of what's being reported is true but sometimes the timeframe for an event may be inaccurate, nevertheless the actual event gives us a "heads up" that something is about to happen.
Heck, MSM are allowed to have unnamed "sources" so can Mensch et al. It's not a problem for me and doesn't seem to hurt their credibility at all.
QC
(26,371 posts)byronius
(7,401 posts)I don't this issue is even remotely in the top ten million.
And they've been pretty damned right on so far.
'They are click bait, teases, letdowns' -- I think your credibility suffers more with hyperbole like that.
Blue Ridge Virginia
(26 posts)of Russian-influence denialists, not "us"
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)They're guessing
Response to Norbert9 (Original post)
m-lekktor This message was self-deleted by its author.
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)herding cats
(19,568 posts)Mensch irks me because of her taste for victory laps when she's proven correct, but then she does those when she hits something. Still, her ego and style aren't my favorite. Which doesn't mean I can't hat tip when she was right, which isn't always but does happen.
Schindler, I haven't seen him break anything, or report anything of real interest. He teases and then goes all commentary. I know when I first saw him post election I was hopeful that he was a part of a trend, but then I realized he was "never Trump" from the beginning. I don't think he's into anything actually investigative. I put him and Rick Wilson in the same camp. They're disgruntled old school conservatives pissed off by the Tea Party and Trump voters. They're interesting in that they're openly against the admin, but not really informative. Schindler is driving traffic to the Observer for his own benefit, but he hates Trump. Still, he's obnoxious and more than a bit of a jerk if you spend anytime reading his twitter. He loves to toss out homophobic slurs to people who disagree with him. He's a real charmer like that.
Claude Taylor was a low level Bill Clinton staffer. I looked him up once and he wasn't much of a player, but he's lived in the D.C. area trying to make a living off various ventures for some time now. Sure, he may know some people and get some info which pans out in the end. I read the threads about him here, but with a properly jaundiced eye. In a broad sense he's been hinting at things which seem to be playing out. I treat him much like I do Mensch, but without the being irked by a personality conflict on my part with him.
I'm of a mind that Claude Taylor seems to be like those of us here, meaning well and hoping for a miracle. Mensch is trying to make a big hit. She wants to be both right and sensational. Which doesn't always work out. Which I think is why some of her concepts seem far reaching. It's also why some people can't abide her fully.
Synopsis: Use your better judgement. Be smart and decide on your own what's self serving and what's well intended. Then know that well intended doesn't always equate to correct. Critically analyze everything, even the MSM before you buy it wholesale.
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)Kathy M
(1,242 posts)posted . Have been disappointed a few times this last year when I thought this is it trump is done ........ Then again I think of the group trump surrounds himself with that seem to skate through a scandal to the other side . I am referring to Manafort, Stone which they have known each other for decades and wonder what it will take ....... Maybe that is what is being worked on behind the scenes , hopefully we will find out sooner than later . Couple articles below if anyone would like to read .....
" Paul Manafort, a veteran of Republican presidential campaigns for four decades, was grilled by lawmakers of both parties in a 1989 investigation into the Reagan administration's decision to divert millions of dollars in federal Department of Housing and Urban Development funds to well-connected GOP operatives.
In this case, Manafort, who helped elect Ronald Reagan as president, landed $42 million in rent subsidies and tax credits for a renovated housing project in Upper Deerfield Township, Cumberland County, that local officials didn't know about and didn't want."
"The billionaire businessman could go into the Republican National Convention with a plurality of delegates but not the majority he needs to be assured of the party's nomination. Manafort, Trump said, will "bring the needed skill sets to ensure that the will of the Republican voters, not the Washington political establishment, determines who will be the nominee for the Republican Party."
"While Trump decried politicians "controlled fully by the lobbyists" in announcing his candidacy last June, Manafort made a career out of trying to influence those officials."
"Manafort was never charged with wrongdoing, even as the Reagan administration HUD scandal led to more than a dozen convictions.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/04/trumps_convention_manager_once_embroiled_in_nj_hou.html
Another article from 1989 New York Times " The testimony by the Republican consultant, Paul J. Manafort, offered significant new information about ties between his firm - Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly - and the Department of Housing and Urban Development during the Reagan Administration. New Details in a Pattern "
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/21/us/bush-consultant-peddled-influence-at-hud-he-says.html
Norbert9
(494 posts)I'll never be so happy to be wrong.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)...who reflexively trashes other people's work, and then, when his pronouncements are questioned, categorizes those presenting facts countering them as "haters."
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You allow idle speculation far too much power over you, and project much more influence on it than it otherwise has.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)as hell hope that toad Sessions is frogmarched out of the White House and gets a really tough sentence...let him do a little jail time.
Norbert9
(494 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)Mensch in particular has zero credibility, being a tool of Murdoch, etc. I don't know much about the others. Mensch is in the category of "Brit grifter" like Milo and Piers Morgan. For some reason, British people thoroughly discredited in their own countries can come here and Americans go giddy.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/07/the-brit-grifters-and-the-designated-american-suckers
Louise Mensch is a former chick-lit novelist, politician, and founding editor of the conservative website Heat Street. In recent months, she has also emerged as unofficial leader of the citizen-detective internet army investigating Russia-gate, the ever-evolving web of shady connections linking President Donald Trump and the Kremlin. To follow her hyperactive Twitter feed is to believe Mensch is perpetually on the cusp of exposing a massive conspiracy on the part of Russia, dating back decades, to make Donald Trump president of the United States.
So intricate and far-reaching is this scheme, according to Mensch, that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the assassination of right-wing internet provocateur Andrew Breitbart in 2012 three years before Trump even announced his presidential campaign. This well-plotted murder allowed a then-little known documentary filmmaker (and Russian agent?) named Steve Bannon to take over the dead mans eponymous right-wing media empire and pave the way for Trumps Manchurian candidacy. Last month, The New York Times granted Mensch precious space on its op-ed page where she provided a list of supposed Russian collaborators for the House Intelligence Committee to subpoena. The Times published this piece well after Mensch had established herself as an unhinged conspiracy theorist. Since publishing her piece in Americas paper of record alleging a conspiracy so immense, Mensch has gone from fairly paranoid to full-blown McCarthyite. According to Buzzfeed News, Mensch has accused at least 210 people and organizations of being under Russian government influence.