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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDems hatch plan that could make Trump resign
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/senate-democrats-hatch-plan-that-could-leave-donald-trump-with-little-choice-but-to-resign/2481/Senate Democrats are hatching a plan that could lead Trump to conclude that he has no real choice but to resign.
The plan, on its surface, is simple enough: sue Donald Trump. But the genius is in the details. This isnt a plan to merely tie up Trump in court with some willy nilly lawsuit. The effort is being crafted by Senator Richard Blumenthal, a former State Attorney General with detailed knowledge of how these things work. The idea is to sue Trump over his financial conflicts of interest in violation of the Emoluments Clause, forcing him to think twice about how far hes willing to go to remain in office.
Because the lawsuit would focus on Donald Trumps financial conflicts, it would open the door for Senate Democrats to try to subpoena his tax returns and financial records. If the judge in the case orders Trump to turn over that evidence, hell have to do it. During the election we saw that Trump was willing to risk losing just to avoid forking over his tax returns, because they contain things just that awful. If the Democrats back Trump into a corner where the only way to avoid surrendering his tax returns is to resign so the lawsuit goes away, it just might mean his exit.
More at the link
mahina
(17,638 posts)rgbecker
(4,826 posts)Virtual Burlesque
(132 posts)Vice President Michael Pence.
onlyadream
(2,166 posts)But he isn't the cult hero and never will be. He will be toast.
destroy the world if they can't get their way.
drmeow
(5,017 posts)Hopefully enough people have been 'woke' and/or mobilized that the removal/ouster/resignation of Trump won't erase the resistance.
elleng
(130,857 posts)Watching movie Judgment at Nuremberg (on PBS) now, so 'into' legalisms and horrors tonight. Fine with me.
2naSalit
(86,509 posts)ALL the live former presidents gathered and made a former appeal to SCOTUS (maybe) and brought charges against the cheato? I don't know how that could work but it would be interesting if they chose to bring some suit against him and the Legislative Branch for collusion and treason.
Just dreaming, since i have little to no hope left at this point.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)and beat the orange out of him.
2naSalit
(86,509 posts)but I wish they could do something. I don't know how much more I can stand.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)return.
womanofthehills
(8,688 posts)Daily reminder #TrumpRussia is going just fine, Trump is being impeached, Flynn, Epshteyn, Nunes, Chaffetz, Sessions all affected so far
Tanuki
(14,917 posts)triron
(21,994 posts)BSdetect
(8,998 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"All the King's Men" can go down, but the chief crook goes free.
I'll be happy if they mess with his money - so important to him - and drive him out of office with a resignation.
red dog 1
(27,792 posts)But he did have to resign. (Not exactly "going free"
Reagan, on the other hand, did "go free" - was not indicted or impeached, and didn't have to resign.
As far as your statement:
"I'll be happy if they mess with his money...and drive him out of office with a resignation"
I couldn't agree more (God, I hope that happens)
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Sure they have him dead to rights. ..unless the FBI flipped him.
AwakeAtLast
(14,124 posts)One can hope...
kacekwl
(7,016 posts)Beats doing nothing and could work. At best annoy the skinny prick.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)J_William_Ryan
(1,749 posts)however appealing, appropriate, and warranted that might be.
Pence or whomever replaces him will be that much more difficult to defeat in 2020.
We want the scandals, and dirt, and crimes to pile up for the next four years where the American people will have no choice but to vote Trump out of office and elect a Democrat president.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,012 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Pence has lied too, about Flynn
I think he can be taken out. Plus, he has no personality, no following, and he can be beaten. He would have even lost Indiana, had he run. I think a lot of them will see this big investigation coming like a tornado and they know their name is in there...so they will get the hell out of dodge quickly...like Chaffetz. Geez, what could have so dramatically changed his life plan so quickly.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)At least he can talk and not sound like a total idiot every time he opens his mouth. Pence has much more self control. Even though I don't like Pence's stances on the issues, I think he would be a much better president than Trump because I think he is far less likely make reckless decisions that could put the world in peril.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Don't fear Pence. But try to purge Pence first.
Ideally we impeach and convict tRump & Pence simultaneously so that Ryan is forced into the Presidency so that HE can be Ford. It would derail his ambition to be Reagan in 2024. If Pence or tRump go singly, Ryan does not ascend and would not accept appointment.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)I bet what they find out from Trump's taxes will be smoking gun type of stuff
bluescribbler
(2,114 posts)Remember Nixon/Agnew.
Agnew was forced to resign before Nixon. Nixon then nominated Ford to VP. When Nixon resigned, Ford became POTUS.
45 would inevitably nominate a GOPuke for VP, but, if we can wait until 2019, Dems might have a majority in the Senate, so Cheato would need to nominate moderate in order to win Senate confirmation.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)But with regard to waiting until 2019, that would be very destructive. If tRump can be gotten rid of sooner than later, then the sooner the better.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Say he left next week, then that gives the pukes 3 and half years for the public memories of Trump to fade away. When you think about how short people's attention spans have become, that could be dangerous.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)who rightfully won it. But it's just a dream
Wibly
(613 posts)If the Dems are relying on running on a ticket of Anybody is Better, they'll lose again. That's basically what they ran this last election on. They trusted the intelligence of the people not to pick Trump, and believed all Clinton had to do was not make any major blunders.
If the Dems want to win in 2020, they'd better start leading and showing a new way, not spending all their time satirizing the Clown Car.
Give Trump the rope to hang himself, but win the 2018 Congressional races, and get serious about the rule of law. They should not be giving him any legitimacy at all. But they should also be strongly focused on Pence. There is an obvious closet in that man's house. Getting rid of him would be key to stopping not just Trump, but the maniacs behind him.
Jared Kushner too. If I know anything about humans it is that busy people are stressed people. The Dems need to zoom in on the agencies under Kushner's direction, and pay close attention to anything that happens, or doesn't happen. Put Kushner, and his wife, to the fire. If there is a weak point anywhere that could cause the cards to fall, it is in Trump's nepotistic appointments.
radius777
(3,635 posts)one that lets a guy who has never liked the party run in their primary against someone who was a loyal Dem (and one of the major icons of the party) and damaged her badly, then run a general election campaign relying too much on the 'moral compass' or whatever of the typical dumbfuck voter... Obama got nowhere with that for 8 years. The Republicans are a thug party, they were before Trump, who is simply more shameless about what their party/base really thinks.
Dems play by Marquess of Queensbury rules when the other side are playing by streetfighting rules, useless. Sure, Dems do need to maintain the high ground, but one can still play a tougher/harder game that is still fair. Go after Pence harder, go after Trump/family and their connections much harder, go after Comey/FBI who threw the election to Trump, go after the GOP movement to disenfranchise voters all over the country... and most importantly don't give Trump or the stolen SCOTUS seat (that was rightly Obama's pick) any legitimacy.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)Not liking Bernie Sanders is the same thing as being a bigoted racist Trump voter. You nailed it
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)we are getting kicked around by the thugs in the gutter.
Obama should have made a recess Supteme Court Appointment and let Comey release the Russian info.
I know he didn't want to appear to be interfering in an election, and he was pretty sure Hillary would win.
He was a great prez, and I love him, but he.made some mistakes, as did many others, in those last few months of the election.
We have to quit making safe assumptions and exploit every possible advantage in every place, to turn this giant tanker around. Stop thinking sbout how this or that will make us look. The Repubs are going to make us look bad anyway, with truth or lies. Also, we will gain much more respect for fighting, than conceding. Look at DT, one reason they love him is that he is a street fighter, and his base wants a fighter for their "values."
I'm not advocating deceit, but when we have the cards, don't hold back, just to avoid s fight or to look like the good guys...it doesn't work...play the cards FAST, AGGRESSIVELY & HARD!
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Dems didn't lose this election. Hillary/we won. It was stolen.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)is in the White House.
They know that we know and I think too many of them are pissed at how flagrant their abuse of the law has been
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)By then he will have wiped his ass with the constitution and installed himself as king. You will have no way to remove him.
tomp
(9,512 posts)yes, resignation not the best option. no, this is not about 2020.
exposing the electoral crime of the entire trump team is the way to go, thus INVALIDATING, the 2016 election. this is not about 2020, it's about exposing and correcting the crimes of 2016. This means the entire regime is taken down. if this does not happen by 2020, due to congressional delays and obstruction, then we can talk about that election. our main focus should be why the entire trump regime is illegal.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)It would be a constitutional crisis, OF COURSE. I think it should be done any way. I mean, come on, if you prove the election was rigged, particularly by collusion with a foreign power, what else can you do? You can't have anyone associated with it remain in power. You HAVE TO invalidate it. We simply have to find the way forward from there.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)But realistically I don't think there's any chance it could actually happen. As soon as you step outside the constitution, then you're stepping into completely uncharted territory. The right would call it a coup, and many of our own party would struggle to agree with anything that went outside constitutional boundaries. I think about the best we could get would be a constitutional amendment to put added measures in place for if anything like this ever happened again.
Remember, even in the middle of the Civil War and WW2 the election schedule still continued as normal.
tomp
(9,512 posts)we will see.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)And even in the wake of a school full of children being slaughtered, the country still couldn't come together around even minor gun control legislation.
I think we know what wins when logic and common sense conflict with the constitution.
tomp
(9,512 posts)and based on this argument I would advocate for impeachment rather than resignation, which would involve a higher level of accountability and continued investigation into trump/republican crimes. of, course I would not outright oppose resignation, as that would bring pence more out front and not hiding in the wings pulling strings.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Unfortunately if it looks like it might happen I'm expecting him to pardon himself, setting off yet another huge constitutional issue. Even if he doesn't, he'll probably step down and Pence will certainly do it for him ala Nixon.
The way the system is built, I just don't see any way that Trump ever faces justice. Then again what can we really expect when the highest elected official in the land can just hand out pardons as they like?
tomp
(9,512 posts)we seem to keep bumping up against the constitution in pursuit of justice. that should tell us something.
It is fairly extreme conservatism to hold to a document that does not avail us of justice. progressives should consider ways of fighting that instead of acceding to it.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)It seems insane to me not allowing logical, reasonable modifications to how society works simply because they were written in a document centuries ago.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)catbyte
(34,364 posts)Democrat President, or Democrat anything is a cheap slur against Democrats popularized by Newt Gingrich and is one of my pet peeves. Thank you!
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Trump is an immediate exisential threat.
malaise
(268,884 posts)Huh?
Volstagg
(233 posts)Pence would have the stink of Trump on him if Pence becomes president due to Lord Dampnut resigning/impeached.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)we have a Judiciary system that has kept him in check so far.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Squinch
(50,935 posts)the "professionals" so long?
Honestly, I despair.
Softail1
(56 posts)...it is an interesting approach, who knows? maybe it will work!
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Tax returns for years before the Presidency would not be covered by Exec. Priv. any way, and I doubt if ones during it would be covered either.
There are many ways to expose him and #TrumpRussia, but I think the tax returns are a key piece of the puzzle.
FBaggins
(26,727 posts)What he would be accused of in this case occurred while he was president. That's unlikely to pass muster even if they could get standing (less than certain).
Of course Congress can get subpoenas... But the minority can't act on behalf of congress.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Courts are extremely reluctant to order disclosure of tax returns. Why would they be needed here? It's clear from publicly available information that Trump is reaping personal financial benefit from businesses that have dealings with foreign governments.
The most I could see happening -- and even this much is unlikely -- is that a judge might order in camera production. That means that Trump provides the tax returns to the court, but not to the opposing counsel. The returns are reviewed by the judge and/or his or her law clerk and/or some Special Master that the judge appoints, who will be someone the judge trusts to keep everything totally confidential. The plaintiffs would then get only what was absolutely necessary for the suit, e.g., "In 2015 Mr. Trump reported income of $___ from the business known as ________, and the returns for that business showed that its revenues from its subsidiary in Russia were $_____."
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)is almost certainly being broken.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)then that's an indication that the plaintiffs don't need the tax returns.
They could do a simple Request for Admission, for example:
1. The hotel in DC often receives payments from foreign governments.
2. The hotel is owned by (name of Trump company).
3. Trump has an ownership interest in that company.
Trump probably has to admit all these things. If he admits them, there's no need for the tax returns. The Emoluments Clause is violated whether he profits by $100 or $100,000.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Courts order tax returns released in discovery all day long. With all of his lawsuits and loan applications DT has had, there must be hundreds of copies out there. It is amazing they haven't been leaked.
Nonetheless, an investigating body could subpoena them, and DT could refuse to release them. Who knows , he might eventually be ordered to jail for contempt, but he would probably have a deal for a pardon by then.
FBaggins
(26,727 posts)What tax returns has he filed since he became President?
Nonetheless, an investigating body could subpoena them
Unfortunately - Congressional Democrats don't have an investigating body.
Volstagg
(233 posts)which are tying him to foreign powers and getting money from them. They would also show, over the years, if those holdings have been sold.
FBaggins
(26,727 posts)The fact that he owned something in the past has no bearing on whether or not he owned it as President... and you can find that out without his tax returns.
Volstagg
(233 posts)We have no idea what his holdings are. He clearly doesn't want people to know either:
1. what he's really worth
2. who he owes money to and does business with.
He would need to show some records of where his holdings are. Those would answer both 1 and 2 above. He won't want to do that.
FBaggins
(26,727 posts)I know that we want to see his tax returns (and for just the reason that you state)...
... but we're supposedly (according to the OP) trying to get them by filing a different case in which we could force him to turn them over.
The problem is that the imagined case couldn't do that - because tax returns from prior years wouldn't show anything relevant to what he has done since he became president (re: the emoluments clause). All this, of course, ignoring the problem of bringing the case in the first place.
Wibly
(613 posts)They'd better be working on a similar plan to make sure Pence doesn't succeed him.
Pence, when you look who is behind him, is way scarier than Trump.
And, he has "God" on his side.
Texin
(2,594 posts)the fact remains that the people that put this asshole cheeto into office did NOT VOTE FOR PENCE. They voted for their orange dictator. The people that put this criminal idiot over the top would not have so much as gone out of their way to piss on Mike fucking Pence if he was on fire in a ditch somewhere, let alone go out on a cold November morning to cast a vote for him. He was deeply unpopular in Indiana and may not have been able to even get himself reelected as Governor. I think the GOP brass, i.e., Priebus, knew that and threw him a lifeline, and because his views reflect so much of the mealy-mouthed so-called 'regular' rethugs, they knew he'd tow the party line. I don't believe Pence would be popular enough to get himself elected POTUS, especially after what these robber barons have planned for the American populace.
Quixote1818
(28,926 posts)oasis
(49,370 posts)kairos12
(12,851 posts)back him 5 to 4.
PdxSean
(574 posts)Call me cynical, but if the legal team thought this plan had any teeth they would just file suit.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Mind-boggling.
Brother Buzz
(36,409 posts)Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) confirmed that Blumenthal had pitched the idea of a lawsuit but stressed that no decision has been made.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/330996-democrats-exploring-lawsuit-against-trump
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The Palmer Report takes the article from The Hill, rephrases the content, and puts a clickbait headline on it.
Brother Buzz
(36,409 posts)I read the OP, saw Palmer report, and searched for conformation. I'm always ready to dispel their story, but this time there actually is some there there.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)FBaggins
(26,727 posts)Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)FBaggins
(26,727 posts)I should have left open the possibility that you've never read anything that he posted.
I can't think of a third possibility... because it sure ain't that he's a reliable source.
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)people on Twitter that have huge followings. And that is just the ones that I also follow. He has 61K followers so if you're right we are all just stupider than you
FBaggins
(26,727 posts)What if I'm following him just for the free laughs?
Trump reportedly has tens of millions of twitter followers. Does that mean he's credible?
lpbk2713
(42,751 posts)The sooner the better.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,839 posts)First, is this a reliable source?
And why would this plan be made public like this? Wouldn't just going ahead and filing the lawsuit, once all the details are actually in place, make a lot more sense?
Why does this feel like yet another daydream?
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)have either someone on the inside or they are just really smart. Same with Adam Kahn. (sp)
beaglelover
(3,465 posts)Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)wrong I think he is pretty on the mark
Maraya1969
(22,474 posts)huge followings folllow him so either they all are stupid, (which could happen as we all know) of they might think he is pretty on most of the time
radius777
(3,635 posts)and is right about a whole lot of things the MSM won't cover.
He is sensationalist, but not overly so, one just has to take some of what he says with a grain of salt.
What I like about him is that he's a true blue supporter of the Dem party and mainstream Dem figures and focuses on topics rank-and-file Dems are interested in - unlike most left leaning sites that are infested with the alt-left types who hate the party, or overly clinical NPR-ish type sites that are boring, or left-leaning corporate media sites that are too trendy and superficial.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I hope you're not on a restrictive diet. It appears that you may exceed your daily salt intake if you read his stuff often. From what I can tell he has great appeal to the left leaning partisans. But as "fun" and satisfying as he may be to read, it looks as though he's getting mixed reviews when it comes to facts and reliability.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/
Factual Reporting: MIXED
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Agreed that Palmer report offers little reporting
Disagree that there is any human who can be entirely impartial on media reporting. All reporting including mediabiasreport will have some bias.
Bias is a subjective thing that cannot be reduced to objectivity.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,648 posts)That's a fund raiser that I can support.
BigmanPigman
(51,583 posts)(choosing to maintain his personal business empire). He'll save face and it's better than a disgracing impeachment. Besides, the job is too much work and too hard. And he needs to play more golf.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have almost forgotten what life was like before this horror was brought upon us.
onetexan
(13,035 posts)Time to take the gloves off
anniebelle
(899 posts)sellitman
(11,606 posts)Headed by my own State Senator!
Go team!
Vinca
(50,255 posts)DownriverDem
(6,227 posts)What about pence? He is a radical religious RWNJ repub. If pence were to go, we'd get ryan. Who would be better to destroy all I care about?
tomp
(9,512 posts)i want the entire regime to be implicated in electoral crimes/treason, thereby invalidating the entire election, including some congressional elections.
i understand this will precipitate a constitutional crisis. but trump resignation just gives us pence, etc, down the chain of succession. that's not good enough.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)...this would be Palmer Report.
samnsara
(17,615 posts)... causing us to develop PTSD!
Littlered9560
(72 posts)Orrex
(63,195 posts)"Fake judges," he'll gurgle, and his entire army of asshole fuckheads--including the congressional GOP--will support him.
Then what? After Trump shits once again on the separation of powers and judicial authority, what happens next?
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Chose to accept the case, 5-4.
bucolic_frolic
(43,123 posts)Executive privilege
louis-t
(23,288 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)...but Jared likes this one better.
GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)He's not a healthy person, mentally or physically.
mcar
(42,296 posts)Gothmog
(145,079 posts)Scruffy1
(3,254 posts)Any gaggle of lawyers could stall this in court for years and years. Our legal system is right out of Dickens' "Bleak House". Trumpism won't be defeated by the courts, but by organization. 2018 is only a few months away, and this is what we need to concentrate on.
benpollard
(199 posts)Richard D
(8,752 posts)99 days ago would have been ideal.
cstanleytech
(26,280 posts)all his assets in a blind trust the judge would then Trumps lawyers would move for a dismissal of the case.
Volstagg
(233 posts)That would mean he would have to sell off his investments.
cstanleytech
(26,280 posts)The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)red dog 1
(27,792 posts)There already is a lawsuit against Trump for violating the Emoluments Clause.
It was filed back in January by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016183503
Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)get the red out
(13,461 posts)I just can't believe stories of hope at this point.
no_hypocrisy
(46,067 posts)The Republicans in the House will not vote to impeach him and even if they did, the Republicans in the Senate will not vote to convict.