General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPrediction: we will bomb NK very soon.
As soon as the missile defense system is done being set up in South Korea we will bomb NKs known weapons factories and missile sites. Both China and South Korea know about it. We made a deal with China, probably to allow them to take over some islands they've wanted and some trade deal, and SK has been afraid of the missile development so want a strike. The meeting with Congress is to let them know about the strike.
Just a thought.
Goprox
(78 posts)We're not that courageous.
Oh wait....
was Israel who did that.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It wouldn't be our cities in ashes in this case.
spanone
(135,635 posts)is why, as absurd as it seems, if more countries like Iran had nukes there'd be less war.
Even nuclear armed countries won't attack other properly nuclear armed countries. NK is not REALLY able to nuke Japan, though it probably could nuke Seoul.
The US wants to stop them before they can nuke Japan, and Australia, and finally North America.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,788 posts)On the other hand, NK can't be allowed to hold everybody hostage just because they can nuke Japan.
There are NO easy solutions, but we can be sure that tRump will find something and think that it is easy and then RepubliCONs will fall into line.
Probably the best solution is aggressive deterrence while seeming to do nothing. Ring N Korea with force such that if they do something really stupid they will get hammered and pounded. It drives war-mongers nuts, but containment has worked well in many situations and it reduces third party suffering to almost nil.
Being too overt and too showy and escalatory and chest-thumping is really bad strategy.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Ilsa
(61,675 posts)Only dt's ratings.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"SK has been afraid of the missile development so want a strike"
While certainly prepared to deal with whatever may come, South Koreans take DPRK threats with a grain of salt more than we do.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)actually understand the issues and their context explain things in very simple terms to Rump, and he at least temporarily accepts that he cannot do what he once imagined he would. My own best guess is no bombing of NK but continued, and perhaps ramped up, cyber interference.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)What really would cyber attacks accomplish in NK? Most cyber interference is meant to disrupt both government, utility and civilian Internet activity. I doubt the vast majority of the starving, poor N. Koreans would be affected.
ETA: I am also not advocating actual warfare, I just don't think cyber warfare would have any real effect on NK.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)our newest psycho-ops weapon -- multiplied big time by the same in NK's leader. They are pushing China to finally put some controls on NK.
Remember, China reportedly recently sent a message through state media to NK about what it will and will not tolerate from NK, threatening to respond with "unprecedented ferocity" if NK continues testing ICBMs or nuclear bombs. That would include stopping all oil shipments to NK.
Plus this:
First, the editorial said the safety and stability of Chinas northeast must be assured. To that end, the editorial continued, no North Korean nuclear fallout can be allowed to contaminate the region. Second, North Korea cannot be allowed to descend into the kind of turbulence that generates a huge outpouring of refugees, the editorial said, adding that China will also not allow a hostile government in Pyongyang. It concluded by vowing that Beijing would not tolerate a U.S. military push towards the Yalu River.
China has never before listed in such clear, albeit semi-official, terms what it wants for the Korean Peninsula.
This message, notably, is also for us. Expect we won't be nuking NK any time soon.
As for cyber, we mainly want to affect the NK leadership's ability to cause us trouble. Reportedly, we've been cyber-interfering with its research facilities and missile launches for some time. And no doubt other things not being leaked. Of course, we don't want to hurt its people. Cyber allows far more surgical strikes than conventional bombs.
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)Let there be 60 Senators who have the sense not to drop a nuclear bomb!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)This is especially true since it seems that Trump has given the military permission to do whatever it wants. On top of that, there is no one in a position in the administration that cares about SK. Tillerson only cares about oil and Trump wants to desperately be a war president so his ratings go up.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)future. She says an auditorium is being made into a secure location so BLOTUS can meet with all 100 senators at the White House and Pence has been called back to Washington early from his trip to Asia. Dropping a nuke would be the icing on Don's 100 days cake.
spanone
(135,635 posts)gordianot
(15,226 posts)Depending on limited radiation China becomes the protector of Southeast Asia, Donald gets to become a War President and a break from his treason, South Korea gets a partial unification. Contractors get revenue cleaning up the mess. Effective weapons get a huge boost in sales.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)It would be a HUGE risk for their civilian population. Most of Seoul is within range of the norths exusting artillery emplacements on the DMV and they could cause millions of casualties in just minutes firing at such a densely populated area.
AJT
(5,240 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)There is technology like the Israeli Iron Dome system or the US land based CWIS that can shoot down a few artillery rounds. That isn't this.
This would be hundreds of conventional tube artillery firing all at ones as fast as they can, resulting in thousands of high explosive shells a minute impacting Seoul.
It would be devastating.
There is no technology that can block that.
The only way to stop it from happening is to strike 100% of their artillery at once and destroy 100% of it before any can be fired. And given that they have spent 65 years building stronger and stronger fortified positions for it that is no easy task and would require a massive, massive first strike and a lot of luck.
AJT
(5,240 posts)would be taking advantage of the political chaos that SK is currently experiencing? I don't think that the rump people care about any loss of life, except their own, and they seem to want the clash of civilizations. God's chosen against the heathen hordes is Bannon's dream. I think they believe that a world war is the only way to shock the world back to the male controlled world of endless violence that they desire.
Calculating
(2,954 posts)Their equipment is probably from the 50's at best. Probably a lot of duds or guns that have rusted and won't even fire anymore.
EX500rider
(10,531 posts)....and only their very long range stuff can reach downtown Seoul.
STRATFOR did a analysis of it:
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/how-north-korea-would-retaliate
Not millions dead but certainly thousands.
Johnny2X2X
(18,745 posts)NK is the paper tiger Trump needs to wipe out to show how tough he is. North Korea's armed forces are living in the 1950s for the most part. They could be devastated in less than 2 weeks. Their nuclear capabilities are growing though, so something needs to be done.
I would be for military action if we can ensure a way to ease the suffering of the North Korean people. The conditions people there are living under are beyond deplorable. This is the largest human rights crisis in the world currently. Forced labor prison camps house millions. Starvation is so widespread that cannibalism is is a regularity.
People have no idea how outdated they are as a nation. The entire country has a mere 500 miles of paved roads. One good rain storm and their military is stranded. Most of the country doesn't have electricity, like at all, they live by fire light.
Calculating
(2,954 posts)NK is truly a monstrous country with possibly the worst human rights abuses in the world. Dissenters have 3 generations of their family condemned to concentration camps where they're subject to starvation, torture, human experimentation, bioweapons testing, etc. Many turn to cannibalism out of desperation.
Kim is truly a sick madman of a leader who was raised from birth to believe he's some kind of God king. NK is a nation that simply cannot be allowed to carry on 'business as usual'.
get the red out
(13,459 posts)But could NK be freed without an attack on SK? Getting many people in the South killed, injured, and without homes and infrastructure doesn't seem any better than people in the North suffering.
Is there any "winning" here? IDK
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)China doesn't control North Korea, but they yield a huge amount of power. They are the only real trading partner NK has, they are the only supplier of technology and weapons, and they have a huge border that North Korea has not fortified.
That is the only country that could possibly do it.
Johnny2X2X
(18,745 posts)My fear is that Idiot Trump will bomb the shit out of their army, leave Kim Jong Un in power and do nothing to ease the suffering of the North Korean people. It's going to be just a big macho target for Trump to brag about.
Kim Jong Un has to go and the people in his country must be saved.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)We don't seem to care about that though.
Calculating
(2,954 posts)Quite the sick individual.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)That seemed very unusual and hinted at something coming.
bluestarone
(16,721 posts)that tRump got us divided even on the North Korean issue!! Come on people WW3 IS NOT HE ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!! North korea even at worse can kill lot's of people and then what YEA just like we said with Iraq Shock and AWE!!! Stop with the WAR mongering already and stop with Well we gotta stop them now before they can reach the USA (Russia and China can reach us now so they just gonna sit and say all is good?) This could really blow up and for what?
Calculating
(2,954 posts)bluestarone
(16,721 posts)Your saying what?
Calculating
(2,954 posts)Once he has them, we permanently lose any and all ability to force regime change on NK.
bluestarone
(16,721 posts)I've heard this so many times!! Russia and China can reach us now and are you willing to take that chance? I'm saying that it's possible that this won't just be between us and N K. Not the right time my friend not the right president my friend There is another way! without the chance of WW3 This argument we have to stop them now JUST DON"T HOLD WATER!!!!
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Count on it.
still_one
(91,962 posts)democrank
(11,052 posts)~PEACE~
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)The stuff we'd really like to hit is so deeply buried we can't get to it without nukes, and even then we might not be able to get to the stuff. Think of NORAD only more deeply buried. The stuff we can hit won't significantly cripple them. Mostly we'd just hurt the civilians.
Also, SK isn't interested in us stirring crap up, and neither are the Chinese. They don't need a nuclear war on their border.
However, NK could easily do something amazingly dumb that could throw the whole area into a massive conflict, especially since Trump is perfectly capable of doing something equally as stupid. Don't be surprised if this thing blows up, generals start resigning out of protest or refusal to carry out certain orders.
The only thing in our favor is that Trump doesn't wanna screw up Ivanka's merchandising deals in China.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Not buying coal, not selling them gas, I think that China invades soon.
Goprox
(78 posts)Link?
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Definitely has that corrupt feel to it.
Goprox
(78 posts)Nowhere.
Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)If we use a nuclear bomb in NK, it will give the rest of the world permission to use their nuclear weapons. And perhaps encourage them to use them as a first strike.
China could walk into NK tomorrow and put an end to all of this. But I'm sure they don't want that mess. But, really, it is their mess to deal with. They have kept NK propt up for no real good reason.
Calculating
(2,954 posts)Modernizing the country, reeducating the people, rebuilding infrastructure and taking NK into the 21st century might take trillions of dollars. NK is an incredibly under-prosperous nation. Most areas still don't even have electricity, roads or cars. Countries like Afghanistan are seemingly better off than NK. It's easier for the Chinese to just ignore the problem they helped create.
maxsolomon
(32,990 posts)1, the people WANT to go there. they know what the South is like now.
2, they don't have misogynist, fundamentalist Abrahamic Monotheism dragging them backwards. that comes later.
hunter
(38,264 posts)Trump's not going to piss off his Russian and Chinese buddies. They can destroy him. As things stand now Trump's posturing is pretty pathetic.
The last thing China, Russia, and South Korea want are millions of very confused and starving North Korean refugees flooding across their borders.
Greybnk48
(10,148 posts)was to deploy to Japan for two years in June or July. We were all at a wedding on Saturday in the Midwest, and he was called at the wedding--called back to Norfolk immediately and told they were leaving asap--like tues. or weds.
He flew out Sunday morning and had to be aboard by Sunday night. We don't know if the ship left yet.
Initech
(99,914 posts)If we go through with it, will be the beginning of World War 3.
EX500rider
(10,531 posts)....China & Russia have zero desire to see their militaries destroyed along with N Korea's.
lame54
(35,138 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)a major threat, never has been, it's all just chest-thumping and mega-blustering on the leader's part. But Commander Twitler has to show his balls and show everyone who's "boss", even if he carelessly and casually risks American military lives and starts WWIII in order to do so. He considers the military just his personal plaything, like any good dictator. They just exist to prop up his ego and distract the masses from his gross incompetence, craziness and, well, grossness.
And what's even more infuriating is that too many Americans are, as usual when it comes to military and war stuff, falling right into line. Maybe Brian Williams has been enlisted to lead the parade after half the country is in ashes. I wonder how "beautiful" he'll think it is, then.
Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)Remember the axis of evil speech. But even he was smart enough not to act on it.
Obama took a much different path. He didn't necessary get better results but he didn't get worse results either. NK is like rats in a big city. You just have to constantly be deligent about dealing with them so you don't lose control. But you don't have to burn down the damn city.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Probably due to racism.
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)a large part of it.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)brooklynite
(93,859 posts)ecstatic
(32,566 posts)Is he really going to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike in our names, with our tax dollars?!
I don't support that and that would make trump&co war criminals, in addition to traitors.
I don't blame other countries for wanting to protect themselves from our firepower. It's sickening to think another US President would kill and injure millions just to prove a point.
lovemydogs
(575 posts)Bomb a country we don't like and start a war. the people will rally behind you and you and your party will be supported and re-elected.