General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis board is absolutely unreadable and it's not even an election year.
That takes some doing, so, congratulations DU?
But, excuse me if I'm wrong here, isn't an expressed goal of this site to discuss how to get Democrats elected and build a Democratic majority?
Is it not possible that goal requires different strategies in different places? And that our party is aware of that?
I don't think that it takes too sophisticated of political analysis to see that economic populism is a successful strategy in the Midwest, and that social issues are bigger drivers on the coasts and other regions.
Isn't it then just smart to cultivate candidates that will appeal to their given electorates?
Why are both sides here complaining about the other making "purity" demands, while making their own purity demands? Why are there are even two sides? This is madness.
Every candidate has baggage. Every candidate has a shit vote (or "present" vote) on their records. That's true for Bernie, Hillary and Barack. Imperfect, all of them. But all of them out there busting their asses to build what we are actively tearing apart on this board.
C'mon DUers, we're better than this. We're smarter than this. And we know (from painful experience) what this leads to, more GOP asses in seats that should have a Dem in them...and ALL of us failing.
Let's not do that anymore.
Humbly submitted for your consideration,
Barack_America
JustAnotherGen
(32,052 posts)I've responded to several posts that past few days saying what 'we have to do' in either 2020 or 2018.
We have 2017 in our state and it is BIGLY! And - the Trump supporters in Horse Country NJ have more money than God.
The populism approach isn't going to work with guys driving 80K trucks and Porsches.
boston bean
(36,228 posts)Whether they are populists or republicans or democrats.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)I wouldn't want to vote for one either. I did once though, because he was the Democrat on the ballot for a Senate seat.
boston bean
(36,228 posts)dumbcat
(2,120 posts)May I ask?
boston bean
(36,228 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)When are we going to learn that if each of us refuses to vote for someone because they don't agree with us on our favorite issue, there will be no Democratic candidates left to vote for.
Let me ask you this - what if you had a choice in a given election for say Senator of your state of a Democratic candidate that at one time voted for abortion limits but agrees with you non all of the remaining issues and a Republican who disagrees with you on most if not all issues - who would you vote for? Or would you just stay home and not vote?
Caution: Your answer to these questions will indicate whether you are a reasonable person or not.
boston bean
(36,228 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)boston bean
(36,228 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)BrooklynTech
(35 posts)"I don't support anti abortion candidates."
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Why are you butting into the conversation?
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)I can answer the question -- I was upset that Blanche Lincoln was primaried with out-of-state funds and lost her seat, because at the time 5 of the 6 people we sent to Washington were Democrats, and her Republican opponent was the lone Republican already with name recognition because he was a Rep. I knew she was going to have a hard enough time, and wanted us to at least have her for critical votes.
But it was her critical vote recalcitrance re: the ACA that led to her being primaried.
We barely got the Medicaid expansion here in Arkansas, and it was done with Arkansas bidding out the healthy poor to be covered by Marketplace plans, and those who didn't meet underwriting standards were placed on regular Medicaid. She absolutely refused a public option knowing that Arkansas wasn't ready for it, and the "Private Option" was barely something we could get through despite it being a major giveaway to insurance companies.
I wanted a public option but I absolutely voted for Blanche in 2010. I knew all too well what getting that asshat Boozman in the Senate would bring. All of our Senators and Representatives are red now.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)1) The fact that I a Southerner has nothing to do with this situation, but in case your interested I am Cajun, which generally means that my outlook on issues is usually quite different from the many other Southerners.
2) Please note that until you entered it, this conversation had nothing to do with whatever the heck went on with Arkansas. You will note that with a name like Boston bean, it isn't likely the the person I was addressing knows or cares about whatever went on in Arkansas either.
3) I assume you are a Southerner also. If so, you already know it is impolite to put into the conversation of others.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... but I thought I was saying something you would agree with if you actually took the time to read it.
Also, this is a discussion forum. If you wish to have private uninterrupted discussions with members of DU, you can message them privately.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)I read what you wrote, but I must admit that without the knowledge of the local subtext it was confusing. Go back and read your post from the perspective of someone who has no knowledge of the situation you were describing and see if you understand what I mean in light of the conversation you entered.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... you'd been here longer. Still makes me the wrong type of ass for this forum. I do apologize for not being clearer.
Blanche Lincoln's DINO status and obstruction was discussed here extensively when the ACA was being passed. I still voted for her when people had been so agitated against her they swore they'd stay home rather than vote for a DINO who wouldn't fall in line. My reasoning was that she was far better than the person who ended up winning after she'd been so weakened by the primary battle. Now our Senators are John Boozman and Tom Cotton. I weep.
If I was in Pennsylvania I'd hold my nose and vote for Casey over the next Santorum the Republicans try to run. Yes, a person who is weak on choice is better than someone who blatantly supports forced pregnancy.
I really didn't know what I would do if someone ran as a Democrat in my district who was going to actively sponsor anti-choice legislation unless they were able to gain a compromise similar to ones that Casey attempted to get -- give in on, say, parental notification with a speedy judicial bypass process that adds no more than a week of delay (must be considered an emergency matter and given priority within the juvenile justice system), if we can get more funding for WIC, SNAP, child care block grants, TANF, etc. Casey tried and failed. Which demonstrates that the Democratic Party probably contains most of the people who are truly "pro-life" -- who want to ensure the lives they want to protect in the womb can eat once they leave it.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Now I understand what you were aiming to say. There is always going to be difficulty in deep red states like Arkansas and Alabama (which I have called home for many years now) because Democrats have to make concessions in their stances to have any chance of being elected in some districts.
If we don't understand that just about any Democrat is going to be better than any Republican, we are never going to be able to retake the House in the current gerrymandered situation.
And by the way, I amassed that post count since the middle of 2015 when the Democratic primary battles were just cranking up, so I really haven't been on DU for that long. I have just been "active". I haven't posted as much on DU as usual lately. I have been finding all of the re-fighting the primaries in disguised terms - which is just a continuation of the left leaning progressives and moderate Democrats civil war - tiring at best. I got all involved in that battle during the primaries, but I realize now in hindsight that was non-productive at best and just plain destructive to our cause at worst.
The best thing about DU is that it attracts many of the most active Democrats and independent progressives. The worst thing about DU is that it attracts many of the most active Democrats and independent progressives. Most of these folks can't have a civil conversation about a subject about which they disagree without getting all riled up. I can vividly imagine anther nasty primary fight on DU in 2020 instead of concentrating our total efforts on bringing down Trump if he hasn't been impeached by then.
athena
(4,187 posts)Like child labor, for example?
Or slavery?
Or separate seating areas for different ethnicities on public transportation?
Or is it only women's right not to be forced into a dangerous medical procedure against our will that is a "favorite issue" that should be set aside in order to get Democrats elected? Where do you draw the line?
You don't have to answer that, since the answer is obvious. You draw the line at women's rights.
Your post is incredibly offensive to those of us who see women as human beings. There are some things the Democratic Party must stand up for. The moment the Democratic Party decides that basic human rights are not a tenet of liberalism, it no longer matters whether the letter after a politician's name is a D or an R.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)you are voting issues over personality or party. Thank you and don't vote for anyone you wouldn't respect yourself for.
Mostly, thanks for voting, that's what we try to get people to do.
Now if we could just focus on the issues and calmly go forth.
DeeDeeNY
(3,357 posts)I voted for Tim Kaine because he was Hillary's running mate.
Ligyron
(7,648 posts)I mean, what are we supposed to do, not vote?
brer cat
(24,666 posts)quakerboy
(13,925 posts)brer cat
(24,666 posts)is to let women make their own decisions." That is pro-choice.
7962
(11,841 posts)Which seems to escape a lot of people. And on both sides too.
If one sits at home with their bottom lip stuck out pouting, they get the OTHER candidate
musette_sf
(10,209 posts)and we REALLY need a smilie for women's rights.
karynnj
(59,511 posts)Every vote, court decision, law, or executive action has been to define the rules surrounding abortion. No one is for complete freedom to chose to have an abortion. I doubt there is a doctor in the country who would be open to preforming an abortion on a healthy woman with a healthy fetus after the point where the fetus could be viable. (I had hoped in the debate when Trump twice referenced babies being aborted at nine months, that he would have been told by either the moderator or Clinton that that just does not happen. The baby is viable then.)
Roe vs Wade was a thoughtful decision that gives the woman complete say at the beginning and then gradually makes it more difficult as the fetus reaches viability. If you look at the 2003 bill that banned late term abortions (they called them "partial birth" in the bill), there were people like Biden and Leahy who voted for it. (Clinton - as well as Kerry and Kennedy voted no - even though it was in late October 2003 and Kerry was running for President.) If Biden or Leahy were your Senator, would you still have voted for him? Many Senators voted against it because it did not have a provision that considered the health of the woman - several saying if that were changed they would have voted yes. Had the bill been written that way, would you have had a problem with people voting for it?
Beyond that, their are the words used. Would you have a problem with a candidate who always voted against limitations, but who described abortion as a sad decision soberly made by a woman?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)You have supported an anti-abortion candidate, so that's the end of that.
athena
(4,187 posts)Unlike Mellow, who has repeatedly voted to restrict abortion, Kaine has always voted to preserve abortion rights.
Comparing Mellow to Kaine is extremely insulting and disrespectful of Kaine.
mvd
(65,187 posts)Seems there is a new thread bashing Bernie every day. I have my reservations about the Clintons, but that's not where my focus is right now. We can argue about direction of the party again closer to 2020. Trump is the immediate problem.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)not such a difficult concept actually...we all basically want the same immediate outcome...get trump and his minions out!
Focus!
A day with out any Bernie threads will be a great start. He's not a dem and why he is the focus of so many threads on this site is a mystery.
mvd
(65,187 posts)And he's a prominent figure. It has gotten too much though. The negativity just distracts us.
Beartracks
(12,841 posts)I'm pretty sure that includes Bernie.
==================
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)I am so tired of all the Bernie bashing. I remember when everyone on this site adored Bernie Sanders. Things have certainly changed a lot around here.
LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)is the future of the dem party, then I'm "bashing Bernie?"
LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)Just curious. I've seen lots of Bernie opinions on here. What constitutes bashing?
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #131)
Post removed
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)sheshe2
(84,087 posts)See the post you are applauding. Ha, not me,,,just reading the thread.
OOps
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)sheshe2
(84,087 posts)LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)You have no answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite.
All you "troll feeding" posters are just ashamed to admit that you are all hypocrites. You can't give one solid example of Bernie bashing. What you really mean is that if someone points out facts about Bernie that you don't like, they are being devisive or "bashing Bernie." Put another way, "we don't care what you think, your opinion doesn't matter." That sounds like the same rhetoric the right spews about the left.
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)Let's avoid posting about Bernie for a while. Or Hillary for that matter.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Good advice!
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)So best to put away the knives.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)And quite appropriate as well l think.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)Or we will have sorely missed the message of the 2016 election. There are armies of foreign trolls whipping up a 'fake zeitgeist' to divide, confuse, and weaken.
Big Blue Marble
(5,159 posts)It can not be said enough. If we cannot remain rational and and respond effectively, how
will we regain our footing electorally?
airmid
(500 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)out the message by sheer volume of distraction posts, or agitating so fights drown out the discussion, etc. Everyone should read Malcolm Nance.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Do not sow discord and discontent. Keep your message simple and positive. Otherwise you aid and abet evil.
Blue Ridge Virginia
(26 posts)could be far more effectively accomplished by Russian trolls pretending to be obnoxious, aggressive Clinton supporters hating on Sanders supporters than vice versa, once the nomination was settled.
I was a lukewarm Sanders primary voter and a lukewarm Clinton general voter, and would have preferred O'Malley to either, given a chance-- which was gone by the time I could vote in the primary. Looking for potential disruptive trollery I can see plenty of possibilities on both "sides" of the primary struggle and two different competing websites.
rzemanfl
(29,588 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)It works out so much better that way.
Mosby
(16,422 posts)It's working great, but I can see how bad it is because I'm getting called 3 times a day to serve on juries for Bernie related threads.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)both having to do with sanders.
Mosby
(16,422 posts)For the past week or so I get called the minute I open up DU in the morning.
I try to be consistent but with some of the rules the line is hard to see.
I would say though that well more than half the alerts I'm deciding on are frivolous.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)had to be around 5:15AM - I guess they're waiting for us early risers. I agree, I very rarely vote to hide - it has to be something pretty egregious.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I don't recall a one that was not about Bernie.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but know I've been asked to be on a jury a lot in the last 3 weeks. Today's were definitely about sanders.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Mendocino
(7,533 posts)juries for the last two years because of all the Sanders/Clinton kerfuffle. I'll get fed up, chill for a few weeks, then go back. Rinse and repeat.
Squinch
(51,093 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)I am pretty hardass about it now too. I'm sick of the infighting.
elfin
(6,262 posts)Splintering ourselves over a hot button issue and disregarding the whole is self immolation. Just Stop It.
it is nasty. It hurts our party. Just. Stop. It.
Who benefits from deliberate division? Not us. Just. Stop. It.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)sounded like a reasonable request to me for the resistance....apparently not...
LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)Seems they are looking for a fight. One poster gives up on the direct combat and they move on to the next one to badger.
How do they find the time? Isn't there more to life?
7962
(11,841 posts)Certainly there have been others who have disagreed with me here and there, but this one has a need to pull out a thesaurus to create a hodgepodge of words to make himself appear educated & bash me numerous times.
LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)The one who repeats the reply title in every post. Always scolding everybody and never making any sense.
JudyM
(29,294 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)have nothing else to offer.
All they do is bash, start fights, alert-bait, and generally spread negativity.
LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)It's those low posters that are the problem. Ha..
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)BainsBane
(53,137 posts)Women's rights are not a distraction.
musette_sf
(10,209 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)But you'll also never find me living in a community that doesn't support them, which affords me great privilege in being able to vote for viable Democrats who share that same view.
LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)What about my liberal Catholic relatives? They feel they are being pushed out. "Who would think that political persuasion could be so complex?"
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I recall the "I'm not going to just go along to get along" statements of the people here last fall.
Now when the core principles of our social justice platform are up for grabs, they expect us to "go along to get along."
Women's unpaid labor as activists and Democratic party volunteers, and women's overwhelming presence by income in the so-called working class in the sector where jobs are collapsing are not going to be left behind in this party if it wants to survive.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)because there is none without equal rights.
athena
(4,187 posts)It seems those who hate Rodham Clinton never got the message.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)We are not Republicans who can flip-flop on, say, Vladimir Putin's sexiness, the bombability of Syria or the desirability of Romneycare.
We find our issues and stick to them, sometimes past the point of reason.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Apparently.
But we come up with new ways to be surprised about it after every election, so bonus points to us for creativity!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)we persist.
We raised money, canvassed, made phone calls, stuffed envelopes, went on Facebook and educated people, and for many of us, November 8th may have been one of the worst nights, if not the worst night, of our lives.
Don't take us for granted. We won't do all that work again for a candidate who compromises on our issues.
ananda
(28,920 posts)I hope it doesn't last.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Recent events make me pretty sure of it.
quakerboy
(13,925 posts)is often a good place to start when wondering why a thing is happening.
Of course, that doesn't take our human ability to do irrational things into account, particularly when we are hurt, scared, or feel threatened. That shouldnt be ignored either.
And it's not being handled well so I guess
that means it's working.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Quit asking us to.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)But, for the record, which human right am I accused of compromising on? Health care? Reproductive choice?
Would be nice to know.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Watch as it does nothing for all this bullshit infighting! Not mad at you.
tblue37
(65,552 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,719 posts)Things will necessarily be messy and ugly for the next year or so, until a new status quo in the DNC is established .
Economic Populism (an honest expression of it anyway) is actually a winning strategy with the grassroots voters across the nation. It is that common ground upon which a winning coalition will hopefully be built.
The struggle lies in convincing/overpowering the career Dem politicians and party leaders to join with the grassroots and not continue in the service of the lobbyists and mega donors who are very much against Economic Populism and wish to maintain mutually beneficial status quo, even if it means losing elections.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That is what will make things "messy and ugly."
If you think that change is hard, try winning elections without women, POC and LGBTQs.
Bernie is a career politician, don't forget.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,719 posts)And that may be an area of contention as Democrats try to find the common ground to rally around for the 2018 midterms.
Nevertheless, I would suggest it will be uglier and messier to try and convince the party elites to rely on small grassroots donations rather than megabucks from corporate donors. It's easier for them to say they are for equal rights for all ( and throw up their hands in faux dismay claiming they can't get legislation passed, and must fall back on "incrementalism" than it is to get them to stop gorging at the trough of corporate dependency.
I would also suggest that those who are willing to fight for income equality and economic justice are more likely to also support equal rights and social justice, compared to those who say they support equal rights, and give only lipservice to economic issues, with no intention of enacting anything that runs counter to the neoliberal status quo.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There is no winning coalition on the left spectrum in the US without women, LGBT, Latinos and People of color, so you are irredeemably wrong before you begin with your premise.
Steven Maurer
(476 posts)So I'm asking you to provide some. Specifically for this statement:
> Economic Populism (an honest expression of it anyway) is actually a winning strategy with the grassroots voters across the nation.
* Single Payer went down in flames in Colorado
* A modest tax increase on the top half of one percent of the richest corporations went down in Oregon.
* No "progressive" Democrat won a contested seat in 2016. Many progressive candidates lost where Secretary Clinton won. (Zephyr Teachout, etc.)
From the above, although I would like to believe that "grassroots voters" see progressivism as a positive, the evidence goes the other way. However, this is your opportunity to set me straight. So please do so.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)other groups under the bus.
But that's actually the opposite of the case. We would certainly lose IF we threw them under the bus.
PDittie
(8,322 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Leith
(7,818 posts)Thank you for starting it.
Unfortunately, some people who need to heed the words are the ones arguing against them. Maybe one of them could tell us if the weather is nice in St. Petersburg today?
zentrum
(9,866 posts)It seems the attacks have intensified in the last two weeks, against one of the candidates in the last Primary, and it's become not informative any more.
We need a national strategy and one candidate especially is out there working with other Democrats to bring this about every day.
This perfection over one issue is driving me nuts. PS--I'm a white prochoice female who supports Mello winning over the Republican candidate. And I feel very grateful for Bernie.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)But disagree with your analysis. I am in no way a purist at all, and I would be fine with making inroads to to attract new constituencies (even though I'm skeptical about converting large swaths of such voters on general national interests over the long term). This can be done in smart ways and stupid ways. The stupid way is to publicize nationally a big unity tour, make a big rally featuring a speaker recently involved in a bitter primary spouting the same national message that was rejected by the majority, all for a local mayoral race--and in so doing alienating huge portions of the already loyal, voting Democratic base at large. And it's double stupid if you fail to put on the same dog-and-pony show for another Democratic candidate for a much more critical race in another state: it looks very hypocritical, and it makes it look like one kind of message is being endorsed at the expense of another. That's not a winning strategy if you lose more voters nationally than you might gain in one locality.
The smart way to grow things regionally and locally, which must be done, and must include all types of Democrats, would be to allocate money and resources, focus on issues that really really matter to that community, and to avoid fracturing the current coalition by grandstanding on issues that have already been raked over the coals (for decades, I might add) while dismissing other issues (which have been bedrocks of the Democratic agenda for decades) as insignificant.
Look, what is clearly happening here is that the primary is being refought. And we're losing focus on the one individual who could gain us more votes than anyone or than anything the DNC or any Democratic (or outside party reformer) could ever do: and that is Donald Trump and his chaotic, oligarchal, bigoted administration. Whatever happens in 2018 and beyond will be the public's reaction to Trumpism, not some restructuring of the Democratic Party. We're looking for love in all the wrong places.
There seems to me one way to avoid this refighting of the primary--after all, it ceased for quite a while here until .... you got it: until people started coming back to paper the place with post after post extolling the wisdom and popularity of Bernie Sanders. We get vanity posts proclaiming: "Sanders says Trump is a liar!" (gee, who knew that? Except, like, EVERYONE), and not just one such post but multiple ones. Every platitude is repeated 50 times. So you see, then people need to push back by saying things like: Bernie Sanders is just another senator now, he's not god you know. And then the fighting starts ("ooh, the haters," "ooh, the idolaters" . So stop posting unnewsworthy posts of adoration, and you will see an equivalent silence on the other side. The same goes for the Party: stop trying to kiss you-know-what by overindulging this candidate and you won't get blowback. There is a place for him, but not as savior.
That is how you create unity and keep the eyes on the prize.
That is all I have to say, sorta.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...I think that all of this "controversy" actually help's Sanders' stock and, by extension, Dem stock in the Midwest. It might be deliberate. In general, I think the DNC actually does what they think will be successful in any given election, which is to have Bernie full force in Nebraska, and absent in Georgia.
I see this as strategy, rather than a deliberate, "fuck you" to any part of the base.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)super hero, or some magic creature and making it sound like he is the only one who can save the party. Irrelevant posts who are repeated over, and over again. That's what started the whole thing.
OnionPatch
(6,169 posts)From my perspective the constant attacks on him and his supporters is "what started the whole thing". It seems to me like it really bothers some people that he is so popular but that's no excuse to be constantly trashing him and his supporters.
There have been plenty of politicians over the years that DUers idolized who I didn't think we're so great but I didn't tell them to shut up. We're all on the same side here.
Ligyron
(7,648 posts)"it really bothers some people that he is so popular"
I think you hit the nail right on the head. They blame Sanders, by and large, for Hills defeat.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)IMHO, of course. I think it should be pinned and required reading before posting.
Thanks, frazzled. I hope a lot of people see it.
betsuni
(25,840 posts)byronius
(7,413 posts)They get paid by the argument, I hear. And you're taking food out of the mouths of their babies!
Thanks.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)This is for them.
askyagerz
(776 posts)of all branches. Obviously something isn't working and you can't fix it until you diagnose the problems. The purity stances here are ridiculous. It's a big tent party. We are nothing without everybody and therefore have to listen to everyone's input inside our coalition.
You can't welcome everybody and then hand them a script as soon as they step in the tent. There will always be differences and you have to figure out like adults what are the best paths forward.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Unfortunately not all politicians are blessed with that particular ability.
Or value it at all.
DownriverDem
(6,240 posts)If people realized who is on our side and who is working for us, the Dems would have won big time. I think people need to wake up.
askyagerz
(776 posts)When you say everyone is welcome, now here is your checklist you have to follow or you're just gonna catch hell the whole time you're here. If people haven't woke up by now then some kind of a different approach is needed. It definitely doesn't need all the infighting of this person don't agree with this and I don't agree with that. No one is going to be drawn to that kind of drama
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)gerrymandering
Comey
Russia
Misogyny
25 years of smears from the GOP that the far left recycled
Nationalism stoked by eight years of a black guy in the White House
targeted misniformation that was swallowed whole by the Left
statehouse servers that were hacked in order to microtarget misinformation
the statistical improbability of keeping the White House in the party after two terms.
And she STILL won more votes than anyone but Obama... Such a "loss"
Perhaps the ones who need to "wake up" are the ones who bought all that misinformation.
Duppers
(28,134 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Our tent? The Dem tent?
Well that's great then! I hadn't heard.
askyagerz
(776 posts)When it comes down to it Bernie is just one vote. You should be more worried about the Bernie voters currently trying to stay under the tent while constantly trying to be pushed out. Hell everyone is pushing each other. It's a recipe for disaster
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)a smilie to more accurately convey my true feelings.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Wasn't it just last week that he said he was Independent?
cstanleytech
(26,364 posts)After all we know the Repugnants as well as the Russian government have a history of hiring people to deliberately cause problems in the past at events so its not beyond the realm of possibility that the shit stirrers are being paid to stir shit up here and on other Democratic sites.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)JudyM
(29,294 posts)question everything
(47,614 posts)the way we used to have it sine... forever.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)Sadly I fell for one of the trolls bait today and got involved in a Hillary/Bernie debate.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And it's about veering even one inch away from a specific career politicians definition of "true progressive."
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)white straight men as "identity politics" that distract from "universal issues."
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)You might want to rethink that "career politician bad" meme. It applies to people you like as well as those you dislike.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Let's see, there are Democrats and Republicans. Those are the two sides.
By declaring that there are two sides in our party is divisive no?
mercuryblues
(14,564 posts)ALL the leaders realize that women are 1/2 the party and I know I don't consider my rights negotiable.
What other civil rights should be ignored for the good of the party?
DownriverDem
(6,240 posts)I bet women are more than half the Dem Party.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...and added to the GOP's platform?
DownriverDem
(6,240 posts)100% correct. We are all in this together. Why some think you need purity is beyond me.
Fla Dem
(23,898 posts)to denigrate the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates, particularly when you are a highly visible "Celebrity Politician" on a Unity Tour.
lies
(315 posts)My feeling is that we all have DIFFERENT things we demand from our lawmakers.
Two parties is probably waaaay too few to represent hundreds of millions of people, but at the same time that seems like what we're largely stuck with.
Because of that many DIFFERENT GROUPS will try and shape the party they feel closest to, to reflect their priorities.
As I have said MANY times neither party has a gun violence plan that I would rate as being any good at all. So if that's my "purity test" I get to vote for exactly no one.
And you know what I have to do? Suck it up.
That's my only option. Well, I can suck it up, or I can not vote.
None of you support my opinion on guns, well maybe a handful, but I don't weep and moan every time I see a pro-gun post on DU.
Saying that, I don't think there's ANY moral argument to be made for angrily demanding people vote for people they don't like or don't trust. It's fine to encourage it, but if that's the bar that you have to go over to be a Democrat the party will just continue to shrink.
I PERSONALLY care a lot more about things like public funding of campaigns, gerrymandering, and removing lobbyists and their money from DC than fighting about toilets... I know that that is MY thing, and it may not be YOURS.
We all need to do two things IMO:
- Expect a LOT MORE from our candidates and leaders and politicians
- Represent the majority of Americans as best we can
That means I don't get what I want on guns, and it may mean you don't get what you want on some issue in some state you've probably never even visited, but it also means that Democrats would be doing what they're meant to do: representing their constituents.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Local Dems recruit and put forth the candidates they think will be successful. I'm not going to spend much time second-guessing them.
If those candidates are running for a national seat, then maybe I'll have a closer look.
I dunno, that's the way I look at it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)How this wouldn't matter to people is beyond me.
With the SC as it is how are we anywhere near being able to get money out of politics- seriously- what is the plan?
I'm not "disparaging" them, but that's not my priority.
Europe doesn't have ANY of this yet - and I doubt it will happen any time soon - neither does Asia... hard to see either of those continents truly suffering as a result.
Anyway, that's just IMO.
RE: money - parties CAN chose to ONLY be funded with donations from individuals and not take money from lobbyists and corporations.The Democratic Party could lead by example, if it only wanted to. There's no law stopping it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hell they want? And the GOP becomes a powerhouse at our expense? Seriously? And saying hey China is doing okay on LBGT rights- say what? Europe largely doesn't have our culture of fear of sex that leads to discrimination- like china and Russia do. Just wow. This is so backward to me.
elmac
(4,642 posts)No negative comments about any Dem or progressive independent. I know its hard at times, especially when red state Dems might vote with the fascists. As a party our #1 goal right now is to take government away from the corporate fascists, period!
vlyons
(10,252 posts)I read this board every day. Several times a day. You don't like what some post? Scroll down and read something else. No one is twisting your arm forcing you to be here. You're free to go elsewhere. Have a little patience with other folks on this board. Some folks here are life-long old-timey Dems. Some are newly energized about politics. People come here with different experience and points of view. Show some respect.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)With that in mind, you may want to re-read your post. No offense, but it's not exactly oozing with tolerance and respect.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)You just don't like being called to account and criticized. I didn't call you any nasty names. If you think this site is "unreadable," then why are you here?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...and thus have a stake in what it has become?
Because I have spent many months of my life actively campaigning for Democrats?
I don't mind at all being called out for asking people here to work together. I'm proud of that, though I'm not sure why you would feel the need to "call out" someone who is calling for unity.
LakeArenal
(28,895 posts)PDittie
(8,322 posts)don't feed the trolls.
randome
(34,845 posts)We're all waiting for the hammer to drop on Dolt45 and his minions. Despite what some think about Comey and the GOP, I still believe the writing is on the wall for the Administration.
In the meantime, without a suitable outlet for our vitriol and impatience, we turn to other topics that might not get much traction otherwise.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font][hr]
sprinkleeninow
(20,272 posts)woozy.
Others are more knowledgeable than I am in why this 'bless your heart' jousting is taking place. A psychological thing, as you posited.
Mandatory: rid our house of dumpty and those trashing our Democracy.
My God. I never thought, in all my born days, I'd be witness to the utter travesty come upon us.
Makes one ill. I think, how can this be? Oh, it be.
We need preserve ourselves yet while
resisting and persisting.
🇺🇸
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)One of them is for the brainless, knuckle-dragging sorts that hold "MORAN" signs. Their fellow party members memorize intellectually stimulating chants like "Lock Her UP!" and "Make America Great Again!". Do they have brains - brains they can use to look at things objectively? Not so much. Thinking causes them pain. They're expected to do as they are told - whether it benefits them or not.
As for myself, I LIKE to think and weigh and consider ALL options - and then choose that which I deem worthy of supporting and act accordingly. You know those security thingys where you type in the distorted characters or check a box to prove you're not a "bot"? My personal box is checked - cause I'm NOT a robot. I don't just put my head down and trudge forward because someone else told me to. I'm not a MORON, nor a ROBOT, nor do I aspire to MAGA by forcing some to know their "place" in our society OR party.
I've seriously been thinking about leaving DU - not that I think anyone would be anything but happy - if they cared at all. Even when I was a wee one - I blazed my own path. I wasn't anti-social, but I also didn't run with a "gang" or see the worth of being part of a sports team. I spent my time chasing butterflies and studying up on them - taking things apart to see what made them "tick" (or tock) - and had pets that weren't the norm.
Now that I can ably spell moron - now that I know more about lepidoptera than most - now that I design and build just about anything I can imagine - I'm told I have to mold myself to appear as a clone. I don't know that most here could understand how non-compliant I feel about that. I feel as if I'm trying to make my way up that dreaded creek without a paddle. I'm not a puzzle piece - waiting for someone else to place me appropriately. No apologies for that.
DownriverDem
(6,240 posts)There is such a clear difference between the two parties that no one should have wondered who to vote for.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)They voted as told.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)There's some fundamental differences in how we process information, and rally to causes/politicians.
We weigh issues, candidates, track records, etc.
A nuanced, 'this is what I need, this is what I can live without, and this is fully negotiable' reasoned platform approach is fundamentally different.
SHOULD we be a 'vote as told' constituency?
Ligyron
(7,648 posts)Surfer here.
Surfing just doesn't breed team spirit aka gang mentality..
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)You just need to find some distinctive shaped/constructed ball to fight over!
Greybnk48
(10,182 posts)It's unrecognizable from the 2000's.
Bettie
(16,151 posts)It's good to know there are some people out there who simply want us to move forward.
PatsFan87
(368 posts)redwitch
(14,954 posts)I have been feeling heartbroken over the infighting.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)alfredo
(60,082 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)On the one hand, we Bernie supporters feel we were right, that Hillary wouldn't be able to win.
On the other hand, a lot of Hillary supporters blame independent/not quite Democrat(TM) voters for not rallying behind Hillary, and a portion of the Bernie camp shares a venn diagram circle with the 'didn't vote for Hillary' people.
Then you have the other problem, 'we' see core progressive/democrat balance issues as not being addressed at the party level, and 'they' see that there is no issue, that Hillary was on-message and had a winning campaign, except it was stolen Comey/Russia/WikiLeaks, etc.
There's a lot of anger on both sides, and heaps of blame, and nobody feels like anyone is listening to them. How this gets patched up, when 'we all' can't even rally against fucking Donald Trump, I don't know.
I can only offer what I want. I want a candidate that can go talk to Goldman Sachs, et al, and whether paid or not, if they aspire to political power such as the office of the President, I want we the people to have a transcript. I want a candidate that doesn't reek of political aristocracy. I don't want another Clinton or another Bush, or another Kennedy, or another god-fucking-forbid Trump. I've joked in the past about how Michelle is eligible, and I wish she'd run, but at the end of the day, I don't really want even that. I want a liberal-leaning-toward-progressive archetype, not a brand name. Someone I can predict their position on an issue based on our platform, today, and 10 years into the past. Someone with a consistent, predictable career. Someone who stands on principle. Someone who, based on our platform of civil rights, says 'DADT was bullshit in 1994, 1995, 1996, etc. Someone who publicly supported same sex marriage the whole political career, not just starting in 2013, and not with wishy-washy support of civil marriage but keeping marriage between a man and a woman. I mean actual civil rights support. Someone who takes risks and lumps for our platform, not their personal branding. Someone who looks to Labor, not the TPP FIRST.
Someone better than Sanders or Hillary, frankly. Neither one checked every box for me. Sorry. I voted, and I even believed Hillary could win, but I didn't think we ran with our best. Didn't find out till after how many people I know went COMPLETELY the unexpected direction, and mostly due to Union/Labor issues. Shots have been fired that we shouldn't take Union voters for granted, and I don't think anyone is hearing it.
I don't have any solutions. I have a small list of people I want to know more about. Most of them are younger generations just now clearing the minimum age for Presidency. That's all I've got at the moment. The longer we spend all gnawing on each other's faces, the less time we have to build a fresh credible bench for the mid-terms and beyond.
The ONLY hope I have, is that it seems like the RNC is going to lean on old-guard hard line conservatives. That's an opportunity for us. But we actually have to DO something about it.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)mvd
(65,187 posts)I am a Bernie supporter and big fan, but I really don't know if I want him to run again. We really need for the party to somehow get behind a candidate. Even if he/she is not my ideal, we need some more unity next time. There are some important principles the candidate should have: put the middle class and poor above Wall St and big corporations, support universal health care that is affordable for all, be a strong supporter of social security, protect the environment, be pro-choice and pro-LGBT rights, and challenge pharmaceutical companies.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)We had our shot, didn't work, so much baggage from the primary...
Time to start fresh. I'd like to look at people that BOTH Hillary and Sanders might endorse going forward.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It was not the only proximate cause. I had one (now former) friend who insisted that Hillary Clinton would be indicted for her e-mail server. This man got very angry with me for telling him to stop pushing this nonsense.
Of course Bernie Sanders supporters are not monolithic. I am only pointing out that part of that group was pretty fucking extreme, and this person was not the most extreme.
Of course you all have every right to your opinion but I cannot respect people who cut off their noses to spite their faces. Vote Democratic, or you're aiding and abetting evil. Stop sowing discord and discontent, or you're aiding and abetting evil.
Yes, it would be wonderful if we could all put our two cents in and hash it out and come out ahead at the end of the day. But that didn't happen. We have to have message discipline. I'm sorry, but Democrats suck isn't a good message unless you're a Republican.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)But I take your point.
If I may ask though, who did your former friend ultimately vote for?
Cary
(11,746 posts)And now he uses that to claim that he wasn't part.of the problem.
It's all my fault, don't you know?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)For starters, I live in Washington, which is going blue no matter what. So it didn't really matter.
For my part, even though I didn't prefer the primary outcome, I certainly didn't spend the remainder of the election cycle bashing Hillary on social media or anything. I was as supportive as I could muster.
Cary
(11,746 posts)This idea that one needs to be "free" to sow discord.and discontent is toxic.
That's a general observation and not directed.at you.
quakerboy
(13,925 posts)You mean part of the blue wall, kinda like Pennsylvania and Michigan?
Oregon here, and its tempting to feel that way, but stuff can get interesting when we start making assumptions like that. We all gotta vote, or we all lose. Sometimes we lose even when we all do vote, but thats a whole 'nother issue, nyet?
quakerboy
(13,925 posts)to borrow a phrase.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Duppers
(28,134 posts)TY!
barbtries
(28,824 posts)strongly agree
madokie
(51,076 posts)I simply put them on ignore so I don't have to put up with them anymore
Actually it's about +3 just from this thread alone.
Thekaspervote
(32,824 posts)nolabear
(42,009 posts)I guess the audience wouldn't be big enough though.
caraher
(6,279 posts)I'm getting called for jury service almost every time I'm here. It just now occurs to me that anyone wanting to gum up DU only needs to do two simple things: start Bernie threads and send alerts on posts on both sides.
At this point I just skip all threads about how the party should strategize and focus on what's in front of us in immediate resistance to the Trump agenda. There's plenty to do and plenty to unify us right there.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Are you aware that this places you squarely on "a side?"
I don't know the answers to your questions but I am more than willing to follow you. You're absolutely correct.
Vote Democratic. And, yes, I have been attacked for advocating that simple goal. Vote Democratic!
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)The party is in the worse shape since reconstruction and it didn't get here in one election. These problems have been growing for a couple of decades. Don't be surprised if rebuilding the party is a bit messy. The folks that led us here aren't going to just pack up and go away. There is going to be a tug of war. If you don't want to watch, I can understand, but the process has to play out. If you think this is messy, you should have been around when we had to desegregate the party. Talk about a "purity test".
KPN
(15,680 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,201 posts)And a new neighbor is a navy vet, in solar energy, politically ambitious and a recent bride whose husband is tremendously supportive of her ambition. They're young and excited by unlimited possibility.
She intends to run for office - state assembly - and I am enlisting other neighbors to help elect her. This opportunity fell into my lap. We connect via our proximity, love of Obama and Pod Save America.
Reading and sharing info here gives me a sense of the pulse and blood pressure of Democrats. We appear to have accute anxiety. Doctors always recommend exercise for these ailments. To me finding this opportunity to work to elect one veteran is a golden opportunity to exercise my duty as a citizen and may help with overall health and we'll being.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Best of luck to you and your neighbor.
I was crazy busy in Obama's primary in '08. So much so that I had no time to read or worry, just do.
I think it was the only way I survived it.
Maybe I should focu more on local politics too.
Thanks for the reality check.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)karynnj
(59,511 posts)We all know that 2015/2016 were divisive years here during the primaries, just as in all other primaries. After the election, things here have become a huge mess.
Both sides have to recognize that we lost power and we need to fight to preserve as much as we can and to build hope and a positive message to win seats in 2018 -- and the Presidency and hopefully more seats in 2020. I realize that beyond that huge loss, which we all share, many lost the dream of a President Hillary Clinton that they might have held since 1992!
Every day, I see threads blasting Bernie Sanders for one offense or another. At times, I sense that some here are almost angrier at him than at Trump. This means that his supporters and others who value his voice are pushed to defend him -- and, in many cases, to respond in kind attacking the Democrat they support. We are tearing the board apart -- and it is us doing it - not trolls!
klook
(12,174 posts)and dropped in today just to see what condition our condition was in. Thank you for this dose of sanity. Hope you don't get a Hide for it!
Think I'll go back to hiding GD for a while -- hopefully joining forces to defeat Republicans will once again become in vogue here before too long. Until then, I'll let the dividers snipe at each other and spend my time more productively.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I agree with your other points, wish I could rec this more than once.
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)applegrove
(118,954 posts)kpete
(72,060 posts)difficult task
not everyone will be left purring
peace,
kp
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Tip from President Obama: "Listening to understand rather than listening to respond." 4/24/2017
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)This is re-fighting the primaries. There's no point. We lost. We have to move on and figure out how to fix this thing.
Yes, there are trolls. But we're allowing ourselves to be duped into fighting one another, instead of joining together to fight Team Trump. No one gives you 100% of what you want. No candidate. However, you make the best choice possible, given the options. There's nothing wrong with that.
In many ways, this board is like a microcosm of what has happened at the party level. The "Unity Tour" isn't totally united because we have two competing factions in the party. I'm starting to wish Howard Dean had gotten it. He has a stronger personality and more forceful will to do what needs to be done.
You're not going to be able to run a pro-abortion candidate in Alabama or Mississippi or Oklahoma or any of the other conservative states. That's just a fact. But we still need to be competitive in all 50 states as a party in order to win control of Congress back.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)You will learn, as I have, that calls for unity are attacked.
Makes no sense to me that some of us are "eating our own" instead of uniting against the GOP.
liberal N proud
(60,352 posts)There is always two sides. It is not possible to get everyone to agree to every thing. But here there is still some question as to one of the sides not offering support for other Dems and even some question to their motives relative to the Democratic party.
These are the things we discuss and it gets messy in here from time to time. Many times it appeared that this site would explode. The primaris with the divisions and trolling is probably the only thing that brought this site to the brink. That too has passed, yet some still want to fight old fights.
We need to have these discussions now, hash it out and figure it out then clean out republicans next year.
lexington filly
(239 posts)Some folks are ok with burning some fossil fuels like cleaner gas and others are adamant that NO fossil fuels are to be used? I could see that as a purity vote for some. Something that is a matter of degrees.
However, being pro-choice is not a matter of degrees. One believes and supports all women being entitled to that right even if a person feels that personally, that's not a choice she/he would make. Those that take what I consider to be an extreme stance of not simply living their own personal religious beliefs but demand they be enshrined in laws for all others to live by are working on a different equation altogether. It isn't a purity test but a yes or no answer to all women who are left of center or liberal and even some Republicans. A Democrat for mayor in Kansas had co-sponsored legislation which sat near the top of a slope designed to eat away at our reproductive rights, bite by angry bite. And the DNC and Bernie supported him.
I agree that we must not act like Republicans and make everything a purity test which is self-defeating. But if anyone wants to write-off our reproductive rights as just a "purity" test then that's both demeaning Democratic women and a fundamental misunderstanding that this is a negotiable issue.
I had a college roommate who had to have a "back alley" abortion. Who had no choices or rights. We've made too many sacrifices. Worked too hard. This woman. This mother and grandmother says NO! A Woman's rights, reproductive and otherwise, are not going to be used as bargaining chips to serve up by someone who wants to be elected to any office.
Shouldn't we be working to get votes by educating people about how our principles will enrich their lives rather than sacrificing principles for votes? Shouldn't we being counterbalancing propaganda in states like Kansas with the rather startling news that we aren't pro abortion but pro planned pregnancies and birth control and opening up more clinics to serve those purposes?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Is that, in the primaries last year, Hillary said she would support a ban on late term abortions, with an exception for the life of the mother, and I got reamed for saying it concerned me.
I also keenly remember Clinton supporters raking Obama over the coals in '08 over his "present" votes on abortion rights while in the IL legislature.
Why do these two benefit from selective amnesia, while some poor Dem in a deep red state gets crucified?
I just don't get it. As I said, baggage, shit votes, imperfection, all of them.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)your excellent question. Meh. They haven't gotten over the primaries and are truly making DU suck.
Steven Maurer
(476 posts)But I can say that the legislation that news reports are saying that "Mello sponsored a bill mandating a doctor performing an abortion offer the woman an ultrasound, and told the Associated Press at the time it was a 'positive first step to reducing the number of abortions in Nebraska.'"
While Hillary Clinton's "flexibility" on abortion doesn't give the anti-choice people anything at all, because no woman waits until her 6th month of pregnancy to abort an unwanted fetus. Not even in the case of birth defects (which these days are almost always detected earlier). All abortions done at that time are due to the health and life of the mother, and even if a birth defect is detected later - the long term viability of the child is usually considered a part of the health of the mother.
So it is possible that what you're calling "selective amnesia" may be due to their belief that the two positions aren't comparable.
Now that said, it also seems clear to me that some people harbor anger at Senator Sanders and many of his followers for their repeated attacks on the morality of Clinton supporters - and this looks to me like a bit of angry counterproductive payback
I find that behavior as disappointing as I did the initial attacks that the Sanders camp did indeed level against both Hillary and the Democratic party in general back in the late primary and the general. And furthermore, just like many of the over-the-top attacks against Hillary, the people who are doing this are relying on false information. The reports were wrong; the Nebraska ultrasound law does not mandate an ultrasound at all, merely that a women be provided a list of those providers if she wants to look at them. In other words, Mello is far less "anti-choice" than he seems to be in conservative Nebraska. He signed onto a law that seems like it's anti-choice, but really doesn't impede women who need a D&C at all.
False news, and just believing things without looking at the details to verify them is a serious problem. It's what we rightly attack Trump supporters over. We shouldn't be doing it ourselves.
Rilgin
(787 posts)Your post is quite correct. What I have seen is selective outrage based on false reporting then inflated by repetition with each repetition adding additional inflated facts that others read and get outraged from.
The false reporting of that ultrasound bill as mandatory ultrasound is just one of the methods and I am glad you pointed that out. I have also seen and fought for the last day posters who misuse quotations and misread actual quotations to imply that Bernie said things that he didn't that support their outrage.
I think some of the false attacks are intentional but as you have posted some are just caught up in it. They are not creating fake news and fake outrage but are biased against Bernie and Bernie supporters and have a grudge to pick so are inclined to use and disseminate these fake quotes, fake positions and fake interpretations. So their outrage is real but its all based on fake facts and the actual facts and explanations which to those not buying into the outrage makes it very selective outrage.
The Omaha event was really a nothing burger. Bernie's speech was not really directed towards Mello although he mentioned him 3 times and his explanation for supporting Mello was given to NPR and is basically the democratic party position on red state candidates. I heard basically the same explanation from Nancy Pelosi on Meet the Press Sunday on working with Pro-life democrats in the Senate. And yes Kaine and Mello are not identical but factually Kaine supported the Hyde Amendment which also is one of the apex laws supported and used by the Anti Abortion crowd to make it difficult for poor women to abort if they feel they need to. This is not really a bash on Kaine, it is a fact that Kaine stated that he supports the Hyde Amendment when he was made Hillary's running mate and later had to state that he would not act on that position but would accept Hillary's policies. Kaine was mentioned by most posts not to bash him but to point out the selectivity in outrage.
Bernie's quotes on Ossof were also misread and misquoted to contrast with the made up Mello position and ignored later statements of his supporting Ossof as well. Basically the whole outrage was just false reporting and false inflated interpretations by people who had a predilection for hating Bernie.
I am sure most people who posted today had never heard of Mello or Ossof and most of us (other than Nebraska residents) are not really affected by a local race. That race is past the primary so it is not a case where anyone is supporting a Pro-life democrat against a pro-choice democrat.
It would be good and I hope that some of the people whose outrage was poked by the fake news and quotes and positions floating around can walk some of their personal outrage back and realize that the other half of the Democratic Party that supports Bernie and his policies are not their enemy on reproductive freedom.
Steven Maurer
(476 posts)This fake news about Sanders and Mello is being reported in major media publications. Not just blogs. So a portion of their incuriosity and credulous swallowing of the story is understandable.
Still, they're not checking because it's something that emotionally they want to be true. It was the same sort of thing I saw on both sides in the primary as well - although during that time, it was Sanders supporters who were more inclined to spread fake news that they just wanted to be true. While, many Hillary supporters were attributing a lot of the anti-Democratic messaging to Sanders, when it was really coming from Greens who were bashing Democrats in his name.
We need to get past this. It isn't helping.
Rilgin
(787 posts)Yes, some of it is coming from sloppy reporting in the press and other sites which start the avalanche of misrepresentations and false characterizations of speeches and positions. Yesterday I was referred to a New York Times article which characterized Bernie's Omaha speech. Notably it contained no actual quotes from Bernie from that speech to support the characterization the author made of the speech. It had various reactions to the speeches from various people using actual quotes to support the characterization.
I went to the actual speech listened to it and found nothing close to the characterization of the NY Times reporter who I suspect was not in Omaha but just made it up. Otherwise there would be actual quotes. However, this article was further misinterpreted here on DU and I suspect on other sites as support for attributing actual quotes to Bernie using words that he never used. So yes I think most of the outrage was real and based on other parties manipulation taken without questioning source or factual basis but even there I believe only bias would allow one to believe or interpret a rather minor event with such outrage.
This has happened to all politicians including Hillary but yesterday was a pretty egregious example of inflating an outrage based on fake news and made up quotes.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Well done.
mtngirl47
(992 posts)rather than the Tea Bagger we have now.
Our gerrymandered district will never vote in a "true" progressive.
So instead, if we can get a moderate Democrat that appeals to everyone...then that's one more vote for the Democrats in Congress.
As a wise man once said, "You can't always get what you want...but sometimes you get what you need."
QC
(26,371 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)Enoki33
(1,590 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)Botskis & trollskis
(maybe we should be flattered?)
relayerbob
(6,561 posts)Since I joined the party in 1976. Sad, but we just never learn. The other side are rabid sheep who will follow the blood trail laid down by their masters. We are like herding cats
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The outrage of the week or the clearly coordinated attempt to spin the site into a lather over such and such.
Get all the socks and zombies to pile on, kick and rec the threads.. no one will notice, sure. Whee!
I ignore it. Stopped taking this place as seriously several years ago once it became pretty clear that although the usernames change, the players and more importantly the game stays drearily the same year after year.
Whatever. There's good information and discussion here, you just need to know how to avoid the bullshit.
Quixote1818
(29,033 posts)Liberty Belle
(9,540 posts)Republicans are so extreme they would ban every abortion even when a woman's life is at stake. But even in "healthy" mom scenarios a woman's life can be devastated if forced to give birth at the wrong time in her life. She could have to give up college, or not have enough money to raise children she already has, or give birth to a severely disabled child or a child destined to many painful surgeries.
We should never compromise on civil rights or voting rights, either since these go to our core values for protecting and valuing the lives of minorities.
Equality must never be negotiable, particularly where "compromise" puts safety or freedoms at risk.
There are other things where regional "compromise" may be needed and appropriate given the alternative of electing a right-wing wacko. Local economic realities is one of those. A Democrat in a state that grows tobacco or mines coal may not be with us on regulating those industries tightly; a district with a lot of aerospace manufacturing or a lot of military jobs might not go along with cutting a military budget; rural districts probably won't elect someone who wants a lot of restrictions on guns.
To me, anyone who would take away the rights of women or minorities is not someone i would trust or would ever want to see representing the Democratic Party. If we compromise on those issues, we are no better than the Republicans.
If we sell out on this, what's next? Do we support white Supremacists, KKK members, people who want to bring back slavery and repeal women's right to vote, just because they could maybe win votes?
watoos
(7,142 posts)This board is like a WW II Pacific Island where Americans and Japanese have been stranded and are still fighting the war.
The war, the election is over, if we Democrats cannot work together, side by side. pro life/pro abortion, pro Bernie/pro Hillary, then we are doomed.
I fear there are trolls on DU but I realize there are people who can't stop fighting the war.
Please, we must realize that there are forces trying to split the Democratic party. It's time to end the war and work together.
Demit
(11,238 posts)People who want to preserve a woman's right to choose what she will do with her body are not advocating abortion, they're advocating choice. The people who think they have a right to take away that choice would more aptly be called forced-birthers.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Every single post I read somehow degraded into bashing either the 'far left' or the 'establishment' in some manner. It was making me angry.
Also EVERY. SINGLE. JURY. I sat on was one that was bashing Sanders. I couldn't take it.
For now, I will just read DU when I first wake up because I don't want to have to deal with being upset during the day.
Roy Rolling
(6,947 posts)I can accept your point without feeling threatened. I live and follow Democratic principles, which make me a Democratic voter. I do not follow anti-Republican dogma, thinking it will make me a Democratic voter. That infatuation changes, it is not the same.
Defining my vote by anti-Republican principles rather than pro-Democratic principles is fundamentally wrong.