I don't get the negativity and I never will

[Cary]

So please do not respond to me with apologetics for negativity. And for the record I am not raising Senator Sanders, specifically. I have not followed Senator Sanders. I am not particularly interested in him except in terms of what he can bring to Democrats. I do not see any particular reasons to elevate him at this point.

So I have been posting "Vote Democratic!" a lot lately. I have tried to keep the whole thing positive because we don't need any negativity. I almost understand the posters who whine about how they have to be able to express their discord and discontent because they feel some kind of entitlement. But if people have a right to sow discord and discontent I have as much right to say that I'm not looking for discord and discontent. I am deeply shocked and appalled at "conservatives" and the fucking mess they have morphed themselves into. I don't want to fight with erstwhile liberal malcontents. I don't need any part of that. It does me absolutely no good and quite frankly the things some people say to me are just plain stupid.

I am not the issue here. I am never, ever the issue here. The issue here is to vote Democratic. Do it. Stop bitching and moaning. If you or Senator Sanders want to do it within the Democratic framework that's fine, but don't drag the rest of us down in some stupid, misguided idea that the net result will somehow be your elevation. It won't be your elevation, as you are just dragging all of us down.

We have to fight "conservatives" with all of our might, and if you cannot do that then be good enough to stand down.

Vote Democratic! Do it. Be happy about it. Spread the good word to the less enlightened. Trump is not the answer to anything. Republicans are not the answer to anything other than senseless enrichment of the top .1% and degradation of our environment. Seriously people, we have way too much at stake for this petty bullshit.

[Greybnk48]

1. "Bernie derangement syndrome?"

I can say this with confidence. Every friend and relative of mine that supported Senator Sanders during the primaries voted for Secretary Clinton in the general. Two were pissed about something, but voted for Hillary anyway.

These constant attacks on Sanders, who is exactly in line with a 1960-70's Democratic liberal platform, are really turning me away right now. I have identified as a Democrat since 1960, that's a long time. I never have felt this way. But rather than leave MY party, I may just go to Twitter and leave DU to the dividers and disrupters. Such bogus bullshit.

[Cary]

2. Not interested.

Vote Democratic!

[NastyRiffraff]

3. Where did the OP say anything about "bernie derangement syndrome?"

Or where did he "attack" Sanders? A call for unity in fighting the horror in the WH isn't enough; nothing short of adoration of Sanders is good enough.

K&R for the OP, BTW.

[Greybnk48]

5. I meant that may be what it is, like the people who

won't stop going after Obama, or Hillary for that matter. It's a sickness. And you sadly slipped in a slur too.

[NastyRiffraff]

22. The OP didn't "go after" Sanders

or anybody else. Its sin, apparently, was that the poster failed to figuratively bow down to Sanders. That's the REAL "Bernie Derangement Syndrome": the cult-like behavior.

[Cary]

33. Anything can be stated in a constructive, positive way

The contention that calling for constructive and positive dialogue is somehow infringing on free speech is a false dichotomy.

[LongTomH]

4. "Bernie derangement syndrome?" Exactly!

I've been wanting to use that exact phrase in a post. The continuing - and growing - hatred for Bernie Sanders puzzles and appalls me.

As for unity, Bernie is working with the Democratic party, and being very effective at getting young people into the party. Other posters have done an excellent job of defending his decision to remain independent.

[Greybnk48]

7. I'm with you LongTomH.

We need a broad message or we will stagnate (like we had begun to).

[m-lekktor]

9. That's what I have been calling it as well. excellent post! nt

[Hortensis]

51. How others--OTHER than the candidate--talk has no

effect whatsoever on my vote.

It's not Sanders' more zealous supporters, the minority who did not vote for the Democratic candidate in 2016, who bother me (some on the left will always reject the party just has to be accepted, it's their right to feel however they do) and it's not Sanders' official positions that offend me. They overlap a great deal with my own. But that's true of literally hundreds of honorable politicians, and I require more.

Sanders' continual attacks on ME, and insults of me, as a Democrat offend me. To put it mildy, I do not agree with his characterizations of me and the people I decide will further my wishes. Nothing new about those, of course, that's a 50-year pattern of behavior. And, even though I realized he was not a person I could support, I did mostly just ignore it and wish him well in energizing resistance to Republicans in the beginning.

His choice to instead...reform Democrats from the left as we are fighting an existential battles on the right, however, more than offends me. Reaaallly bad timing. Bizarre timing. You don't embark on a home remodel as the hurricane of the century bears down. At least most people don't.

His ethical behaviors as they differ from what I require terminally repel me. We have very different ideas of what is acceptable behavior in politicians.

And how I believe his behaviors affected the results of the 2016 election make me very, very, very, very angry. I will never forget that. But when the party leadership gave him a leadership position within the party, including a fortune in party assets for his use, he was given a chance for all of us to put everything behind us and move on to the big battle. I was willing to support the party's decision and support him in a joint fight against the right, but he is not moving on.

The current headlines about how this person who rejects and despises the Democratic Party is "taking it over" are profoundly silly and irresponsible, and they don't worry me. Even if he did have some initial success, I believe he'd promptly fail. But I'll tell you, if somehow it happened, if competent far left leaders somehow surfaced and joined him to stabilize the new direction (imo, almost an oxymoron), I would have to join those who formed a new party with leaders who meet my standards and share my ideology and leave the shell of the party to whatever he brought it to. You see, Sanders and I are both in agreement that we are not each other's kind of political person.

[The Blue Flower]

6. We need the biggest coalition we can get, so I dont understand it either

I suspect that the agenda of these anti-Bernie posts is division. I agree that they make me think about leaving DU, so perhaps that is their purpose.

[Greybnk48]

8. Agree The Blue Flower.

Time will tell if they can brake up our site or not.

[JudyM]

11. It's old and tired and monotonous, keep picking at a scab, same thing, it's only hurting our unity.

[KittyWampus]

13. Yes, Bernie's constant insults of the Democratic party are picking a scab he should let heal.

As head of Democratic party outreach, a national platform, we wish he'd understand that.

[JudyM]

14. The only thing constant is this type of bullcrap negativity about him.

He said we've been feeble, and sorry to say, but take a look at not putting up a fight about Garland or gerrymandering or and our sad huge losses in both houses. He is offering a plan to help our party and has been working DAILY on it. If you have a problem with him, it's not one that's shared by Schumer and Perez, who have elevated him -- obviously because he is GOOD for the party. Peddle your complaints to someone else who shares your negativity.

Please detail for us what you have done to help the party since the election, since you're so unhappy.

[R B Garr]

18. Or not putting up a fight about him, either. He's badmouthing

Democrats all the time, and they let him. I would have pulled him aside by now and had a little talk about his motives and negativity towards Democrats.

[George II]

34. Ah, the tired ol' "tell us what you have done" refrain. Did you see the look on Perez' face...

...the other night when Sanders once again proclaimed that he is not a Democrat? Look at the video below, beginning at about the 30 second mark.

Also, he played with the truth in that interview when he said politicians in Vermont don't declare a party affiliation as a quasi-rationalization of why he is an independent. In fact, Senator Pat Leahy has served Vermont for decades as a Democrat, Representative Peter Welch has served Vermont as a Democrat, and former Governor Peter Shumlin served Vermont as a Democrat. So, as President Clinton used to say, "that dog don't hunt".

[stevenleser]

21. Plus 1010100 nt

[KittyWampus]

12. There are no "anti-Bernie posts". There are posts discussing his unhelpful rhetoric

about the Democratic party while he is head of Democratic party Outreach.

And the thread isn't about Bernie.

It's about Vote Democrat.

Funny how some need to turn this into a "defend Bernie against legitimate criticisms".

[Cary]

24. Vote Democratic Kitty!

It's a call to be positive. It's a plea, so that we can defeat evil.

Apparently that's just too much to ask.

[Cary]

29. Don't leave

Be positive. It pisses them off when you're positve.

Of course the goal is not to piss them off, it's to get them to fight "conservatives" and not us. But by being positive we deprive them of their negativity and we can defeat them.

Laugh and the whole world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone. We are right. Our truth will prevail.

[m-lekktor]

10. I always vote for the Democrat no matter how badly I dislike him/her. always.nt

[Cary]

17. With a great big asterisk, apparently

[Skittles]

15. Democrats *DO NOT GOOSESTEP*

is that so difficult to understand?

[Cary]

16. Perhaps not, but apparently they have no problem with hyperbole

I'm sick and tired of the whining. Vote Democratic.

And I still don't understand. I said nothing provocative here and look at all the whining in response. "Poor me, poor me."

Stop it. The past is over.

[Skittles]

19. I always vote Democratic

AND I WILL CRITICIZE ALL I FUCKING PLEASE

[Cary]

23. Are your all caps supposed to intimidate me?

How about addressing the actual issue I raise, instead of yelling at me?

Or do you suppose your right to criticize is greater than my right to my opinion, expressed in my opening post?

Are you part of the solution here, or are you part of the problem?

[Skittles]

25. OMG

I am SO fucking done here

*OVER AND OUT*

[Cary]

27. Yes, it's so horrible!

How dare I ask you to be positive!

OMG! OMG!

[Gore1FL]

40. +1

I hear you Skittles and agree completely. The Democrats are the best choice of the options, but the party could stand a lot of improvement. We can neither afford to not support the party in the voting booth, nor avoid working to reform the party into something that reflects a true progressive standard.

[Cary]

43. Fascinating how I am not allowed to make a positive statement

You're right. We have one and only one choice.

Vote Democratic. Anything else is catastrophic.

Complicating this any further only feeds the fascists.

[Gore1FL]

46. In what way was I not supportive of what you said?

Vote Democratic, sure. Let's fix with party as well. It is very far from perfect; we've been Republican-lite since the 1980s and can do better.

[Cary]

47. Which part of "we have been Republican lite"

... is positive?

If you don't think "conservatives" have latched onto that and exploited it you have not paid attention.

[Gore1FL]

49. It's not positive, but it's not a lie, either. It's something we need to fix.

We've been cowering in the corner since Ronald Reagan crying "don't hurt me" to the GOP.

I would be happy for the party, and I don't care what person/personality lead it, to emerge as a coalition that stands for a liberal agenda in more than half-measure.

We haven't had a presidential candidate (successful or otherwise) who hasn't rolled-over when it comes to Reaganomics since at least Mike Dukakis, and arguably Walter Mondale.

Democrats aren't regularly going to win elections between the 40 yard lines. We need to be Democrats again.

[Cary]

57. You don't get

Okay, but understand this:

I will never respect that negativity. Never.

Vote Democratic.

[Gore1FL]

63. Yes Vote Democratic.

But lets make voting Democratic be more worthwhile than simply not voting Republican.

[mcar]

68. I'm amazed at the negativity on this thread, Cary

You posted a positive message.

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. Seems to be giving a lot of people trouble these days.

They have confused candidate for party, infatuation for support.

[mcar]

26. Great OP

Vote Democratic!

[klook]

28. Support Democrats. Work to improve the Democratic Party.

Not mutually exclusive.

[Cary]

30. Awesome!

[KPN]

31. Aye Aye Sir!

Everybody fall in line here. Got that?

OK -- that's a bit harsh. I agree -- vote Democratic. But your post just struck me as a bit intolerant of opposing views when you state that you're not interested in hearing them -- which is the way I perceived your OP. Sorry if that offends you. That's not my intent.

[Cary]

32. It takes two

No matter how I express my opinion those who wish to take offense will find a way.

I will not indulge that. I have given no one cause to be offended, except "conservatives."

[Mountain Mule]

35. I don't get it either.

With everything that is going on, I'll check in on DU and sometimes notice upwards of 6 threads complaining about Bernie. Folks, don't we have better things to do with our time? Whatever atrocities some may feel that Bernie has committed pale by comparison to the very real atrocities carried out by the Traitor and his inner circle of cronies everyday of the week. Let's start talking strategy here. Keep the momentum going with calling the Republicans to task at their townhalls; keep on organizing demonstrations on everything from climate change to the Constitution (and the protection, thereof) and keep up the fight to prevent the poor and minority groups from being disenfranchised thanks to insane voter registration laws. That's just a couple of things only for starters.

Fine, some folks obviously love to hate Bernie, but couldn't all these separate threads dealing with this subject be combined into a single "Bernie needs to be soaked in gasoline and set on fire" thread? That way the rest of us could stop being distracted by this foolishness and move on to better things.

Just saying.

[LovingA2andMI]

37. ........

[Cary]

39. Why twist my words?

Are you being positive?

[Mountain Mule]

45. I'm not trying to twist your words

Just a bit frustrated here. I think the examples I gave are all pretty good ways for the party to move forward. Go, Democrats, indeed! I do wish my fellow Democrats would simply reign it in a bit with the Bernie thing, and I've been known to add a sarcastic line or two in my posts. However, bottom line, I'm with you my fellow Democrat. Is that a little more positive?

[SirBrockington]

42. Well

Personally the only time I ever see a negative Bernie thread is typically when he is using a forum to criticize Democrats (liberal elitists etc etc.).

It seems the majority of the Bernie threads have a subtle dig at the Democratic Party or Hillary. Then someone notices the subtle dig, responds, then is all of a sudden "reliving the primary," when the initial thread itself provoked a response. That is almost always how it happens.

[Mountain Mule]

48. I already know I'm in the minority here

A while back I suggested on another thread that I see nothing wrong with criticizing the democratic party as long as it's done in a constructive manner. Obviously, the Dems could have done some things better in this most recent election. Let's figure out how we can improve and win in 2118 if not sooner!

Man, did I ever get jumped all over for that one!

[sheshe2]

73. Posting Bernies own words

Is not complaining. We did not say those words...he did.

[Paladin]

36. Well said, Cary. Very much appreciated. (nt)

[SirBrockington]

38. For awhile there were no Sanders post

But now it seems like it's a daily thing again. There is almost nothing positive that comes out of the threads. Many Sanders supporters went to Clinton, just as many Clinton Supporters went with Obama, and John Edwards to Kerry. The difference is that there wasn't an elongated schism. Once one conceded, it was time to move on for the bigger picture. There are some that seem unable to do that. I think there is also a double standard. Someone can post "Bernie derangement syndrome," which is a condescending personal attack, yet any critique of that approach or opinion that is equally strong from an opposing point of view often ends up with a post hidden or alerted.

I hate coming to Democratic underground and lately seeing all of these Sanders threads that SOME of his former supporters will auto Rec to ensure it's on the front page/home page and the rest of us have to see it. There is a site, JPR, that is for and by hard core supporters. Why must we continue to revisit the hurt of the primaries by those who pretend to offer....what exactly? Promoting Senator Sanders as a great man and politician? At this point I wonder what the purpose is for those Sanders threads. Anyone with any criticism is almost immediately met with some form of snark or sarcasm with post after post of fighting. So many bigger things going on right now for so much energy spent going back and forth over Sanders. Not this thread OP, I agree with you, but the other threads that are popping up just offer nothing to the current climate or discussion that wasn't already fought in the primaries.

Some still dislike Hillary, or never liked her and/or the Dem part and apparently court and continue to court division. Not all, just some.

[Cary]

41. I hear you

Move forward. Vote Democratic!

[Orrex]

44. I supported Clinton from the beginning because she was the stronger candidate

Had Sanders won the primary, I would have supported him whole-heartedly.

[Cary]

53. Me too.

I honestly intended to post a positive, cut the crap and let's elect Democrats message. I specifically asked for no apologetics for negativity and I see that some have twisted my words into a "don't criticize Bernie Sanders" or worse yet a "both sides do it."

I don't want either. I want to move forward and to defeat Republicans.

You get it, I know. It's disconcerting how enmeshed some people are with this pernicious notion that they have some kind of entitlement that protects them from the practical nature of the universe. You can't both say that we suck as badly as they do, but don't bother to vote for them. I cannot tell you how many people have glommed onto that and said they were voting for Trump because he would shake the establishment of both parties up. The cognitive dissonance just doesn't work.

[benpollard]

50. Trump is the answer...

"Trump is not the answer to anything."

I disagree. He's the answer to the question, "What is orange, lies 74% of the time, and is destroying our country?"

[Ken Burch]

52. Why do you equate any disagreement or critique with "negativity"?

All of us WANT the party to do better and everybody here already votes Democratic-we don't need to be constantly told to do so, and when you keep spamming those two words it's as though you're accusing us of NOT doing so.

To fight conservatives, we have to be the best party we can be. We can only be that if we don't stay exactly like we were in 2016.

What is it about open discussion and suggestions for improvement that is so intolerable to you?

[Cary]

54. Why don't you listen to what I'm saying instead of putting your words in my mouth?

"What is it about open discussion and suggestions for improvement that is so intolerable to you?"

Who made you the judge? This isn't at all what I'm telling you. This is you putting words in my mouth.

When you figure out how to listen to what I'm actually saying, and hold an actual discussion, I'll take you seriously. Until then, not so much.

[Ken Burch]

58. I just quoted what you actually said.

In your OP, you equated virtually any critical comments about how the campaign was run with "negativity".

They aren't.

They are simply observations that we need to do some things better and to change some things.

We will lose in 2020 if we ran the exact same campaign we ran in 2016.

[Cary]

60. You twisted my words.

[Cary]

61. Let's break this down.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here Ken, and that you're actually willing to engage. Let's parse it out and take it one at a time. I'll go first, then you answer, and then you take a very small part of this.

1. There are many ways one can say things, and there are ways to say them that are positive.

True or false, Ken?

[Ken Burch]

69. True.

And when I say things, I say them in a positive spirit. It's positive to say "we need to change", because that statement is predicated on the belief that change is worth working for.

Negativity would be, for example, "The Democratic Party is a dead loss. Might as well abolish it".

[Cary]

72. We agree on your answer to my question.

Can we try to keep this purely intellectual? I am trying to understand your point of view, not your feelings. At least not yet. I would like to establish common ground first.

2. There are people who want to be negative.

True or false?

Please note I am not explaining any reason why, or trying to insinuate anything about you. I believe there are people who want to be negative. I am simply asking you if you agree on that point, alone.

[melman]

56. This thread is deliberately antagonistic

As are all the similar ones you've posted. You can pretend otherwise but people don't have to play along.

[Cary]

59. Nice personal attack.

Do you have anything to say about the subject?

Vote Democratic melman!

[David__77]

62. Disagreement is discord.

And accord is agreement. Those identifying as Democrats and those supported by those who identify as Democrats will have both agreement and disagreement. I think expressing a viewpoint can be healthy and beneficial, particularly when done on the basis of personal integrity and honesty.

[Cary]

65. So you're saying we have no problem

That's not my experience. We have a problem, and after careful thought and deliberation based on my experience we have people who want it that way for various reasons. We have some people who are trolls. We have some people who believe that's the way to change things, like Susan Sarandon for example. We have some people who are just contrarians.

I think these people have hurt our cause. That's my opinion. It's not scientific. It's not fact. They are not the only thing that has hurt us but they are a proximate cause of our losses.

So how do I fight this? In my opinion, again, by being positive.

There are ways to express dissent without being discordant or discontented. This idea that one has a duty or a right to be obnoxious is just an excuse. It's a muddying up of the waters for no functional reason, and it's clearly something that our enemies have exploited.

David__77 I had erstwhile Democrats telling me in an aggressive and belligerent way that Hillary Clinton was going to be indicted for the e-mail server. That's just one example. I have been called things like "third way," "corporatist," "neo-liberal," ... How and when did I become a "third way," and why?

Let's just cut the crap. Do I expect that the hard core whatever they are will become functional? No, but I do expect that they are a small group of little consequence and that if those of us who understand that our enemy is "conservatives" and their pernicious though virus of an ideology, we can defeat them all. I really believe that.

Vote Democratic David. Forget the nonsense.

[adigal]

64. I don't get it either...what's not to like about Bernie's plans?? Hillary adopted most of them.

Healthcare for all.
Taxing the big corporations and wealthy at a fair level
Free college

I'm amazed when Dems say he has no ideas or they are not our ideas. They are certainly MY ideas. This is just beyond stupid.

[Cary]

66. We are the majority Adigal

Vote Democratic.

[betsuni]

67. K&R

[Exilednight]

70. Pffft.

[Cary]

71. Wazzamatta Bubala?

[Rollo]

74. We are very much on the same page, Cary

However, and this is not a criticism, we cannot win the next big election just by voting Democratic. We also need to convince enough independents (and maybe some R's too) that our candidate and slate is the best for the nation, for the states, for the communities.

To this end we need to reach out to all Americans, no matter how idiotic some of us think they are for voting as they did in the last election. Like you said, we need to be positive, we need to be inclusive, we need to refrain from the childish negativity and accentuate the positive at all times.

This is something I think Obama was able to do most of the time and it in large part accounted for his electoral victories.

Of course it starts with Democrats voting Democratic, but it needs to include many others to vote similarly.