CNN: FBI Used Trump Dossier Allegations As Part Of Justification To Monitor Ex-Aide

[DonViejo]

By ESME CRIBB Published APRIL 18, 2017, 7:09 PM EDT

The FBI used a document containing allegations of ties between President Donald Trump and Russia as part of its justification for obtaining an order in 2016 to monitor the communications of Carter Page, a former adviser to Trump’s campaign, CNN reported on Tuesday.

CNN cited unnamed U.S. officials briefed on the investigation, two of whom said the agency used the document to obtain approval from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to monitor Page’s communications.

The dossier, which BuzzFeed published in January, remains largely unsubstantiated. CNN reported in February, however, that multiple unnamed U.S. intelligence sources had corroborated some communications detailed in the document.

On Tuesday, CNN reported that unnamed officials familiar with the process of obtaining a FISA warrant said that the FBI would only include information from the dossier in its application after corroborating that data through its own investigation.

more
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cnn-fbi-used-trump-dossier-as-justification-carter-page-fisa-warrant

[lies]

1. I'm not sure

Why people are obsessed with this aspect of the story? This is the umpteenth thread/discussion about it, but it seems like a weird point to obsess over.

The FBI isn't vouching for it by using it as evidence necessarily. In fact they could be saying, "we want to investigate this to discover what parts - if any - are true".

So... You know... Why all the interest?

[HoneyBadger]

2. Because it legitimizes the Dossier

The FBI has a certain set of skills, if the Dossier passed their sniff test, it gains that much more credibility.

[lies]

5. Nope

Thats not a given at all.

At the very best it means that they wanted to investigate to determine if it was true. Which could easily mean that they discovered parts of it, or even the majority of it, was false.

Think of it like this, someone in British intelligence learns that a source thinks I'm the zodiac killer.

British intelligence passes this on to the FBI.

The FBI wants to get a warrant to search my house, for evidence to prove or disprove a claim.

They present this intelligence to a judge and he grants a warrant.

The subsequent search proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm NOT the zodiac killer.

So the evidence was used to justify a warrant and the warrant proved the evidence to be wrong.

Happens daily.

Thats why this is a non-story to me.

[HoneyBadger]

6. Ultimately, nothing but a conviction counts, but this is step 1 out of 100

[Demsrule86]

7. It is a big story actually...if they got a FISA warrant because FISA is a very tough court.

That would mean they corroborated much of the dossier. Trump and his people are traitors...Trump is the Plunderer in chief and worked illegally with the Russians in order to make a great deal of money...he sold out his country... as did his worthless children...Did you read the article? FISA does not operate like regular courts and it is very tough to get a warrant for an American. I have to say I find your post surprising.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. Considering that some people wanted to dismiss the mere existance of the dossier when the news broke

.....yes, it is a big deal. And it's not insignificant.

[lies]

4. Like I said

This in no way vouches for the integrity of the dossier.

So...

[kydo]

8. Sure, if so say.....

but then again your user name is "lies" and you are trying to dismiss this. Sounds very similar to the corrupt rethug jerks in congress. Nothing to see here, everything is normal. So like sure, fine what ever. Cool story bro....

[lies]

11. You need to back off the ledge

I am not interested in stopping an investigation, and want it to lead wherever it needs to lead. That's not the same thing as blindly supporting every single optimistic reading of the news.

The FBI has not vouched for the dossier being true. It kinda doesn't matter if it's true btw. If there's evidence that Trump colluded that's not in the dossier, and the info in the dossier about Trump specifically turns out to be false, are you really going to be upset?

I won't.

[kydo]

12. I'm in a one story house. No ledge. But maybe you should back off your ledge. nt

[MedusaX]

9. Dear Lies: Your argument would apply in a typical criminal investigation...

However, in the world of FISA, it is the credibility of the evidence presented to the court, at the time of the warrant request, that is the basis for the decision to grant the warrant.

The FISA court does not grant authorization (warrants) to gather intelligence data for the purpose of disproving claims.


In comparison to the criminal court system, the FISA court warrant process is more along the lines of a Grand Jury Indictment....
you don't go to the grand jury and request an indictment in order to proceed with a case for the purpose of proving innocence....

[lies]

10. What are you basing that on?

"An application for electronic surveillance under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act need not show evidence of a crime."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-obtained-fisa-warrant-to-monitor-former-trump-adviser-carter-page/2017/04/11/620192ea-1e0e-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html?utm_term=.187912660959

On top of that, while the FBI has to prove it's case, like it would to get an indictment from a grand jury, it doesn't have to prove that all claims by human intelligence are "true," just that they are genuine claims.

So, Curveball tells the Germans [x], the Germans tell the US [x], the US tells a FISA court that the Germans vouch for [x] as far as they can tell. That's now good enough to be 'evidence'. That in NO WAY is the FBI saying that [x] is a fact. As you probably know, many many many grand jury indictments don't result in convictions, or even attempted prosecutions. One of the common complaints of the FISA system, and of the US intelligence system, is that American counterparts tend to accepting things that our allies tell them, when it suits their agenda. In this case the agenda was getting more information - thus the warrant.

Anyway, I stand by my original statement, the FBI has not in any way vouched that the dossier is factual.