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Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 09:52 PM Apr 2017

The Google bots are back. What are we going to do about it?

So I'm on twitter and I read that Susan Rice is under a full blown investigation for "misuse of intelligence" and I think, "That sounds rediculous and I type her name into Google.

So here is what you get when you type Susan Rice's name into Google. The first articles to pop up are Fox news - "Susan Rice is a liar, even the liberal media is starting to admit it

Washington free beacon - House intel committee person, "This is now a full blown investigation"

Washington times - "Graham compares Rice investigation scandal to Benghazi lies"


There are ways to get something to the top of a Google search and obviously nefarious people are using them to spread propaganda, (remember the effort to get people to search for "Santorum"? I guess it is the number of hits a website gets that makes a difference.....not quite sure)

But I know that however they are doing this we must find a way to counter it or our elections are going to continue to be lost. If the biggest search engine shows up RW bullshit when you enter an important name people are going to just know RW bullshit. We know that this was a big tactic used during the last election so why is it still happening?

Maybe Russia has superior computer technique but I think this does not require that much technique. So why is it still happening?

https://www.google.com/search?q=susan+rice&oq=susan+rice&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Google bots are back. What are we going to do about it? (Original Post) Maraya1969 Apr 2017 OP
I'm only barely literate in all things computer and online and bots calimary Apr 2017 #1
Click on the Mother Jones link... IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 2017 #12
This was on JackAssRadicals as a Bloomberg story. WhiteTara Apr 2017 #2
It must have been pulled. That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #14
Looks like someone is fighting back as MoJo is now the third top story. rogue emissary Apr 2017 #3
yep that's the 3 stories featured msongs Apr 2017 #4
Yep. wildeyed Apr 2017 #6
HALT! You just said something. So one way to get the real news to the top is to search using Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #8
When you click links, it affects the algorithm. wildeyed Apr 2017 #15
Maraya is right. Everyone that reads this should google docgee Apr 2017 #11
YES! That would be GREAT! A forum on "Techniques to Combat Fake News" or some such. calimary Apr 2017 #24
I'm still getting the same thing. MJ is literally 7th on the list which includes her Twitter Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #10
Was for me just now... IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 2017 #13
Easy to do, hard to stop unc70 Apr 2017 #5
I read Fox and Breitbart too, so my algorithms get really confused. wildeyed Apr 2017 #7
I don't frequent those websites and the people who posted got almost the same results Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #9
They are like weeds. wildeyed Apr 2017 #16
Stop seta1950 Apr 2017 #17
I switched to... IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 2017 #18
It is not me that I am upset about. I know how to look through the lists and pick out the losers Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #22
Welcome to DU, seta1950! calimary Apr 2017 #25
I use duckduckgo.com Jim Lane Apr 2017 #29
I used several search expressions to help the effort. FormerOstrich Apr 2017 #19
The ways by which sites can be forced up or down in a Google search are numerous and arcane. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2017 #20
Google has said they're going to help fight 'fake news' so... WePurrsevere Apr 2017 #21
Thank you. Will you post what you said over to the activists forum? Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #23
Amen! calimary Apr 2017 #26
I put a cross post of the whole thread over there but I'm going to delete it. Thanks Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #27
I wrote to then and sent a screen shot too Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #30
The problem there is that the story on Fox News that comes up second MineralMan Apr 2017 #28
I wish they would update Outfoxed and release it again Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #31
K & R Duppers Apr 2017 #32

calimary

(80,700 posts)
1. I'm only barely literate in all things computer and online and bots
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:00 PM
Apr 2017

But you're right, we MUST find a way to counter it, or our elections are dead. From here on.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
2. This was on JackAssRadicals as a Bloomberg story.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:04 PM
Apr 2017

eI just scanned their headlines and didn't click on their link. But it did seem like a not credible story.

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
14. It must have been pulled.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:40 PM
Apr 2017

I like that site and this one, but they both have problems.

That one: Alex Jones fans and possible Russian Trolls.

This one: people re-fighting the primary and John Birch Society reenactors on a perpetual "commie hunt".

rogue emissary

(3,147 posts)
3. Looks like someone is fighting back as MoJo is now the third top story.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:05 PM
Apr 2017

Google Top story for me is displayed as follows.

Susan Rice is a liar. Now even the liberal media is starting to admit it
Fox News · 4 days ago

House Intel Committee Member on Susan Rice Probe: ‘This Is Now a Full-Blown Investigation’
Washington Free Beacon · 1 day ago

Susan Rice did nothing wrong, part the millionth
Mother Jones · 1 day ago

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
6. Yep.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:25 PM
Apr 2017

So I cut and pasted Susan Rice Did Nothing Wrong into the search box and found a bunch of articles that said that too. My little contribution to the Resistance, lol....

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
8. HALT! You just said something. So one way to get the real news to the top is to search using
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:07 PM
Apr 2017

the real words?

Can you explain what you know to the class please?

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
15. When you click links, it affects the algorithm.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:49 PM
Apr 2017

If enough people search terms, then Google anticipates them. So if enough people search "Susan Rice did nothing wrong", then when people type Susan Rice into the box, that will be one of the auto-predict options. Remember when Dan Savage Google-bombed Rick Santorum with that anal froth association? That was funny.

Um, I think if you share stories on social networks, that also helps their visibility on other platforms. I retweeted a few. And followed Susan Rice on Twitter.

I also know that people spend a great deal of money gaming the system now, so not sure if human people have much power against the bots now.

Interestingly, the Mother Jones article is now gone from my top three choices. Maybe we made the bots mad

docgee

(870 posts)
11. Maraya is right. Everyone that reads this should google
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:20 PM
Apr 2017

and click on the correct stories. We should have a fake news section to fight yhis crap.

calimary

(80,700 posts)
24. YES! That would be GREAT! A forum on "Techniques to Combat Fake News" or some such.
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 01:41 PM
Apr 2017

For those of us who have a little more time on their hands, like me (the retiree), we could really go to town on something like that.

ESPECIALLY on a day like today. My husband has a bad leg - problems really flared up in the past few days. Which means any dog duty or errands or prescriptions to pick up falls to me. That's why I'm not downtown at the Tax March right now. I have time on my hands. I could do stuff like this - even with the minimal online-manipulation "knowledge" I have.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
10. I'm still getting the same thing. MJ is literally 7th on the list which includes her Twitter
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:17 PM
Apr 2017

It's all bullshit except biography.com and Wikipedia and twitter and then the article fighting the newest bullshit accusations about her

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,072 posts)
13. Was for me just now...
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:36 PM
Apr 2017

... I had posted previously to click on MJ, before scrolling down to these posts. I hope this helps folks understand it better.

unc70

(6,095 posts)
5. Easy to do, hard to stop
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:20 PM
Apr 2017

I have posted here for over 10 years about various techniques to boost rankings in Google and to make pages almost disappear from search results. The biggest changes over the last two decades is the increasing complexity of the forces involved.

Early on with web searches, the same search yielded the same result list for each of us doing the search at the same time. Now, the results are highly personalized by Google to use your search history, browser history, location, consumer profile, and more. This micro targeting is so pervasive that the version of the Internet we see and use is unique to each of us. All reality is virtual.

This personalization includes things like ads shown on TV. I suppose it could be expanded to show different segments segments within the supposedly same TV show. Sort of like the Fox News effect, but not so obvious.

Wish I had some magic solution, but I don't see one.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
7. I read Fox and Breitbart too, so my algorithms get really confused.
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:31 PM
Apr 2017

For a while, Facebook was serving me black hair product ads (I'm not black), lesbian dating service ads (I'm not a lesbian) and western wear clothing ads (I live in a major city). I get some real filth on Twitter since I read a bunch of white supremacist crap there. But at least I am outside a bubble a little bit now.

When Sessions was being confirmed, I notice that it was nearly impossible to find anything negative about his past via Google search. All of the racists stuff went poof.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
9. I don't frequent those websites and the people who posted got almost the same results
Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:13 PM
Apr 2017

Maybe the advertising is targeted but the search?

Why does the search so often propagate the fake news?


I think one thing that we need to do, (or someone as this is not my alley) is set up a bunch more real news websites fashioned after their fake news one. This is how so many of them show up when you do a search

Right after the election all the hate Hillary sites seemed to go away but the minute Susan Rice called for a recount I checked and they were all popped up on the top again

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
16. They are like weeds.
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 12:23 AM
Apr 2017

Just keep pulling them, but they always come back.

Cernovich 'broke' the Rice story, right? Crazy-ass conspiracy theory Pizzagate CERNOVICH! The one who is ranting about how he will show burn down the GOP if Bannon gets fired (fine with me, BTW). And now the nasty troll-bots are spreading his filth around again.

I heard he suffered from mental illness in his 20s. His rich and sucessful wife divorced him. That's where he got his money. In the divorce settlement. And he injects himself with testosterone which makes his balls shrink. I read it on the interwebs, so it must be true.



https://idledillettante.com/tag/mike-cernovich/

Now I am watching his "Alpha Male Body Language Exercises" on youtube. Spoiler: It's just a bunch of deadlifts.

We should not be getting beat by this guy. Really. Someone on our team needs to fix this.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
22. It is not me that I am upset about. I know how to look through the lists and pick out the losers
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 07:35 AM
Apr 2017

It's that Google is the main search out there and this practice costs us Dems a lot. Most people just type in a name to check things out and they don't know the names of the fake news from the real news.

calimary

(80,700 posts)
25. Welcome to DU, seta1950!
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 01:44 PM
Apr 2017

Like what, for example? I'm one who doesn't have a lot of fluency in these things. I wouldn't know where to look for such search engines. And I'm certain that I'm not alone in that. Got some suggestions?

FormerOstrich

(2,690 posts)
19. I used several search expressions to help the effort.
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 12:55 AM
Apr 2017

But I liked the results when I googled:

both Republican and Democratic lawmakers and aides have so far found no evidence that Obama administration officials did anything unusual or illegal

BobTheSubgenius

(11,535 posts)
20. The ways by which sites can be forced up or down in a Google search are numerous and arcane.
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 02:05 AM
Apr 2017

However, there are companies, and probably individuals, who can be hired to achieve a desired result. It's far, far easier if the site you want to influence is one to which you have admin access, which is all I'm at all familiar with.

I know this because of once being employed by a total douche who, for example, bought Guiliani T-shirts for all of his staff (except me, because he knew I would tell him to do something unnatural)...and we live in Canada. This is to prepare you for some shocking news: he is a totally unscrupulous "businessman" who uses a guise of religion. As such, his "business" was smeared MOST unfairly - by citing examples of exactly how he treated people.

This led to the hiring of a company that could sink these 'undesirable' pages to the third or fourth page of Google results, and concomitantly raising the profile of totally bogus pages extolling his venture.

Thankfully, this was all quite a time after I left that hellhole. It did lend some insight into how this process works, in a basic way. I'm sure a hypothetical hostile foreign power, to offer a preposterous example, would have the resources and expertise to do this quite expertly.

WePurrsevere

(24,259 posts)
21. Google has said they're going to help fight 'fake news' so...
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 07:25 AM
Apr 2017

May I suggest writing to them via their Feedback link (at the bottom of your search results) and suggest that they do more... because the fact is... they can and, IMO, should otherwise they're complicit in helping to spread fake news.

FWIW here's just a snippet of what I just wrote. It's nothing fancy and done before coffee but hopefully it will get my point across to them w/o too many errors.

Please further help stop the spread fake news by 1) not allowing bots and paid orgs to manipulate your search results so the fake news they want spread is at the top of the search results for specific keywords entered and 2) perhaps allowing searchers to report fake news perhaps with a trigger so it's pulled if over so many real people, not bots, report it..


If you choose to write them as well I suggest short and sweet is more likely to get read and forwarded to the proper departments for consideration and action. You can send them a screenshot of what you're talking about too if you feel you want to be specific.

Another way to help fight fake news is to set up your own blog, learn about how to do SEO (search engine optimization) and then network with other Democratic bloggers, sharing their links etc. There may be an existing circle out there to join but we DUers could band together to do the same. I haven't done so yet but I used to own/run a non-political forum and have been considering how I can translate what I learned to what I can do to help fight against the R agenda (being disabled I'm rather limited on physical activism ATM).

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
23. Thank you. Will you post what you said over to the activists forum?
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 07:41 AM
Apr 2017

I keep forgetting that we actually have a forum of people wanting to do things on site.

calimary

(80,700 posts)
26. Amen!
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 01:45 PM
Apr 2017

With details and actual how-to steps for those of us who don't "get" most of this - but have time on their hands.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
28. The problem there is that the story on Fox News that comes up second
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 02:27 PM
Apr 2017

in that search, now, is that it is on Fox News. Because of that, it has been linked to by many, many people on many, many sites. Since Google's ranking algorithms depend, in part on the number of backlinks out there, and since Fox News is a very popular venue, stories on that website often have high rankings.

Here's the thing: While it is not so difficult to use SEO techniques to improve a website's results rankings, where there is a site with enormous traffic, it's almost impossible to bump that site out of a high position for simple searches. That's part of the business I'm in, so I work with SEO all the time. As long as Fox News gets the millions of visits it does, stories in it will rise to the top. It's inevitable.

There is nobody at Google who is watching the results of individual searches. Nobody. It's all automated. The actual people there are working on the algorithms, not watching Google search results pages.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
31. I wish they would update Outfoxed and release it again
Sun Apr 16, 2017, 08:17 AM
Apr 2017

It would get more attention with Twitter, FB and other social media

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