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This message was self-deleted by its author (Pacifist Patriot) on Mon Feb 5, 2018, 02:09 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)upstart millionaires buying their way into it.
Second, government wants to maintain order at any cost. Outing the millionaire as a crook and Russian dupe with a staff full of spies and agents might have upset people and caused disorder. It's just not done.
So we have a Russian dupe in office and government is picking off the spies and agents one by one, isolating him. However, they won't provoke civil disorder by going after him unless the civil disorder already exists and getting rid of him is the only way to pacify it.
Once you understand this, a lot of things will start to make sense.
Same reason Obama didn't swoop in wearing a cape to save the day. It would have set a dangerous precedent that could be used to advantage by, shall we say, the wrong element (trump et al).
Remember, "The arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice."
History is on our side. It will just take a while to see the justice.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)History is too full of horrific men who did horrific things and ended up dying rich and in a feather bed, surrounded by loving family.
I think the best we can do to bad men running headlong into disaster is try to trip them.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)there are just too many horrible people all over the world destroying the lives of too many people, the planet, endangered species, etc., that it is hard to grasp the enormity of it.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for him to speak up on any of this.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)It was the job of intelligence agencies and law enforcement, the people who are picking off the worst of the crooks one by one.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But I remember posters here going on and on about how he "would never desert us."
He's gonna be just like every other past president.
Well, except for Carter - who literally walks the walk.
not fooled
(5,791 posts)time will tell.
But, after 8+ years of the most vile treatment at the hands of vicious pukes, if anyone has earned the right to depart public life, he is that person.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)volstork
(5,394 posts)N/T
tomp
(9,512 posts)what the fuck do you think trump is? which is better a dangerous precedent that sets things right or a dangerous precedent that fucks the entire planet?
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)Sorry, couldn't resist that play on words...
I quite agree.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Who the hell knows what it ultimately bends toward?
(It sure hasn't been bending toward justice just lately!)
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)Sigh.
It's SO HARD not to want justice
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)Minister Theodore Parker. Paraphrasing I think. Recall he put his own twist in it. In bed on my phone so too lazy to find citations. 😊
C Moon
(12,188 posts)AwakeAtLast
(14,112 posts)So what happens when he's isolated? Can we expect him to pull a Nixon?
Response to Warpy (Reply #1)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
no_hypocrisy
(45,774 posts)Myriads of victims of Joe McCarthy lost their employment, their money, their families, their lives to merely being accused of communism (and hence, sympathy for Russia) in the Fifties. And half a century later, we have an unabashed Russian sympathizer and dupe in the White House.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,260 posts)organism and it makes sense that eradicating the current environment is going to take time and a massive consensus
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)not to conduct intelligence operations against people involved in election campaigns. So, for example, they didn't feel comfortable investigating Carter Page till he had left the DT campaign in August.
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)since the collusion likely occurred earlier than that. say, prior to Manafort coming on as campaign mgr.
but I doubt the IC ever imagined there'd be an election like this.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)should never have announced that.
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)I have lost so much faith in America, I almost hate to say it, but what if this was all exposed before the election and all these racists voted for him anyway?
Does America think anything, even fascism, is better than civil rights for all?
Have we degenerated that far as a country?
I don't know.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)YES...they would have voted for him anyway...
Think about it in these terms...the single LEAST qualified candidate in the history of the republic - INDEPENDENT of any collusion or treason with the Russians - won a bare majority in the convoluted Electoral College while LOSING the popular vote by more than 3 million votes.
Clinton was imminently qualified in temperament AND government experience AND international diplomacy to handle the current world stage and she was beaten by a lying, ill-tempered, short-fused, faux-colored asshat.
The people that voted for him wanted to put their thumb in the eyes of urban centers, liberals, people who believe in equality and basically anyone not lying through their teeth to them on their TVs and radios (ie. - they MAINLINED the Kool-Aid, 24/7 and they huffed cans of hate for good measure.)
They are not just deplorables, they are antisocial assholes.
They would have voted for him like he said, even he shot someone on 5th avenue....ironically one of the few times that truth passed his lips.
GetRidOfThem
(869 posts)My first reaction was to do my paperwork and get my German passport back, which I haven't had since I was 14. I have an appointment with the embassy next Tuesday. I am so sick of what I am seeing, and how this is progressing...
Liberal In Red State
(442 posts)Over the past decades is being nullified on a daily basis by this dorito mousollini! Today Planned Parenthood! What next!!!!!!
yuiyoshida
(41,764 posts)The Republicans control the government. The House, the Senate, the Supreme court, the White House...who will impeach him? ask any Republican Representative,
"will you impeach the President?"
"No, we won't "
Whoomp! (There It Is)
BigDemVoter
(4,149 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Or not. Comey announced a "maybe an investigation will follow" then, too late, said "nothing there." Meanwhile, he sat on the Russian involvement.
I am still sick over it. And red-hot angry.
Skittles
(152,966 posts)while Trump Inc was being investigated for COLLUDING WITH A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
and yes, OBAMA knew about it
SERIOUSLY fucked up
LisaM
(27,762 posts)I've wanted Hillary for president since 2008, and this is absolutely wrenching for me. I don't understand how there are people in this country who at some point can't reflect on what a different country this would be if Gore, or Kerry, and now Hillary had been in office. It's just sickening.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,789 posts)Think it through. It's the "proven" part that takes time to build. In criminal cases you have to [font size = "+1"]prove the charge "beyond a reasonable doubt".[/font]
It's a high hurdle and we don't like it any more than a hard-right guy likes it when somebody (perhaps of color) is accused of violent crime. But we both live with it (when we pause to think about it) because we know that it helps protect the innocent.
This case is very large and complex. It is bigger and more involved than Watergate, which took two years. Watergate did not have a foreign antagonistic nation attacking us. It did not involved a rat's nest maze of numbered corporations and shady wire transfers. It did not involve tax-dodging sneaky business people highly skilled at hiding dealings.
elmac
(4,642 posts)the CIA and FBI are full of rightwing nut jobs and military industrialists puppets. There will be no justice.
BSdetect
(8,989 posts)there is a great deal of "patriotic" fervor and willingness to crush opponents. Its a culture of conformity in many ways.
And the militia nutjobs would be only too glad to suppress any revolt or even demonstrations.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But not one word about ...BTW, we are investigating the possible criminal actions of Trump and his team for colluding with a foreign enemy country in the election process...and we've got so many communications and other evidence to sift through, that we're only halfway through!
jimjc
(69 posts)The problem is... what we have learned going forward is
that you can lie through your teeth and WIN and win by
telling lies so big so unbelievable only idiots will believe it,
that's how he won....it's a sad day but I don't believe he
will enjoy any respect as time goes on, in fact he will be
rebuked by the majority...
Eliot Rosewater
(31,097 posts)The prick does not want to face justice, so he will start a war.
Demtexan
(1,588 posts)He would start a war before going down.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)still_one
(91,965 posts)dchill
(38,324 posts)This is the huge, mind bending flaw in whatever the strategy might have been.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)McConnell was working toward to keep the intelligence already gathered by the IC to be masked. From what I understand, Turtle tried to keep the CIA from releasing the information by threatening to blame the Obama White House of playing a game of partisan politics.
That's why this information wasn't released prior to the Election. The right wing propaganda machine would have polluted the truth with its own set of lies and misdirections, and the poor electorate wouldn't know which way was up.
This way sucks worse for us because, even if Trump is brought to justice, the election stands and the Democrats lost. It sucks because we didn't really lose. We won, but their cheating sans a constitutional provision in place to address it means the cheater wins even if he loses.
CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)He risked a compromised election to avoid being accused of this? Is there something I'm missing, cuz I would have said, "Accuse away, Mitch. I'm going public with this info."
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Like the survival of the nation. I think that's what's at stake here, and have thought that ever since someone here mentioned the name "Dugin", and I went Googling.
If it took electing an unpleasant homunculus like Trump to flush that threat into the open, so be it. Better a year of suffering under Trump than a century as the Angola of North America.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Nothing new here!
VOX
(22,976 posts)Where do we go from here? Will our government (or our country!) ever be configured as it was before this?
With Citizens United and gerrymandering, will there ever be a "fair" election again? Is it going to be one-party rule from here on?
Is this how American democracy dies? I'm fucking serious. We are in completely new territory now. The old paradigm has been blown to pieces, just vaporized.
0nirevets
(390 posts)The flaw in our separation-of-powers system is that if you have a majority in all three branches, then there's no way to hold the crooks accountable, and that is exactly what's happening here. Clearly some big name Republicans were in on the Trump-Russia treason, and if Hillary had won they knew it would come out. I think the Republican Party has become a treasonous scam, ends justify any and all means. But talk to street level Republicans they think this is all hunky dory. I doubt Trump will ever be held accountable, and I predict he will NOT be impeached.
Some sad shit, right there.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Same thing happened in Britain with the Brexit. Same thing is happening in France with the surge of far-right and far-left pro Putinistas. Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Serbia, etc. In Britain the once strong Labour party has been reduced to nothing by the Tories.
The modern world has been shaped by liberalism. This is the failure of modern liberalism to connect to the people.
A Brit told it to me straight. Once labor is divorced from liberalism, it loses its cohesion as a movement. We haven't seen it here as strongly because the Republicans are retarded. If we had to face a group like Theresa May's Tories, we'd be getting destroyed like so many other western countries. The labor movement was the cement holding us together, and now it's dying a slow death to Walmart jobs and Amazon robots.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Obama was in the WH. Did intelligence not tell him of all the Russian interference? I don't get it. I keep wondering what Obama was doing or thinking about all that. Why didn't he do something? Why didn't he tell us?
Greywing
(1,124 posts)I don't get it either. President Obama must have had at least one briefing if not several. Was he concerned that he would be accused of interfering in the election? I just don't understand ...
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)I would like to think they could have come up with some way of telling America what was going on and not make it sound like he was interfering in the election. Hell, COMEY, WTF! he announces more email hunting of HRC and says nothing of a counterintelligence investigation since July 2015. I won't be able to get over that one. I am looking forward to the results of the investigation of Comey's actions. Who is doing that btw? Oh, I'm sure it is a buddy of his and nothing will come of it. Anyway, Obama is a smart guy and I just don't understand why he didn't tell America that treason was brewing.
pansypoo53219
(20,906 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Someone should've leaked it all. Obama, Comey, dems etc. and whomever else knew. The whole country is going down the toilet. Insanity rules now.
Response to Pacifist Patriot (Original post)
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Martin Eden
(12,803 posts)... like a frog in the proverbial pot of water with the stove burners turned on.
Hamlette
(15,394 posts)so, to release what we knew then would not have helped. I'm not sure if it would have helped if the FBI had arrested him for treason.
He would have had to have been convicted to be removed from the ballot (I think) and unless he was removed from the ballot, or maybe convicted of treason, he would have still won.
With all of Trump's flip flops since taking office it seem obvious why he won. People believed he would do the things he said he would do. Make Mexico pay, stop China's unfair currency manipulation, don't go to war, give everyone better, cheaper health insurance, open the coal mines and give everyone great paying jobs again and on and on and on.
Gullible people voted for him because he was going to make them rich like he is. The same people who signed up for Trump U. Pie in the sky. They would have seen getting Russia to help as a smart move by Trump. Just like not paying taxes.
Nitram
(22,671 posts)a Democrat from winning the presidency.
BlueJac
(7,838 posts)When the Republicans can block investigations and commit minor infractions in the laws, it is wrong. I seriously doubt that we will see justice in these matters. Trump is destroying 50 years worth of work in a matter of weeks, his supports are empowered to maintain their ignorance of all the injustices being committed. It sickening to witness the tearing apart of America, piece by piece!
I want Justice yesterday!! WTF?
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)but he's currently under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for the same sorta shit you can expect from every low-life Rethug!
CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)We have two child-leaders threatening to blow up the sandbox, the media is cheering them on, & Congress is in recess like everything is business as usual.