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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWell, what do we expect the police to do?
I hear this question all over the media and sadly DU as well. A video emerges (because it has to be video before anyone gets upset about anything) with a police officer or a security officer tackling, beating, tasing, punching, wrestling, kicking, dragging, or otherwise pounding a part of a human beings body into something solid.
The people who defend the police state, fascism, and authoritarianism show up and scratch their heads, and collectively ask, "Well, what do we expect the police to do? They issued an order, and the person didnt obey them. Or didnt obey them fast enough. Or didnt obey them in the way they expected. Or walked away."
What do we expect the police to do? They issue orders, which the little fascists assume everyone must obey, and if they dont obey, well, what can the police do? *scratches head* The only possible response in their minds is that the police or other authority figure must lay hands on them immediately, and grab and twist them, suppress and sedate them, taser and club them, bash them and beat them until compliance is achieved.
The actual answer to this question, and it applies to police dealing with black people, crazy people, dumb people, poor people, . . . . ALL people, is that we expect the police to TALK. To talk and talk and talk. To keep talking until they are blue in the face. To engage verbally. To establish and keep open communication. To create a dialog. To talk until an agreement or understanding can be reached. To talk, to talk, to talk. TALK.
THAT is what police officers or security officers or anyone else SHOULD DO if someone doesn't "comply" with their "orders". Unless someone is in immediate physical danger, you talk. Maybe in the end they will do what you want. Maybe you will find some other solution to the issue together. Laying hands on another person should be the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT, and never done out of convenience or impatience. People's bodily integrity needs to be RESPECTED and MAINTAINED. This should be the number one criterion for judging how an encounter with law enforcement proceeds. Anything that breaches that integrity should be regarded as a failure, with attempts to change those encounters in the future.
There is a British show streaming on Netflix called Happy Valley. In the first episode, a distraught and not very bright young man is on a kids playground, threatening to light himself on fire. The protagonist, a middle-aged, working class, tough, and smart woman policeman . . . TALKS to him. She talks and she talks and she talks. And in the end, on this fictional show, the mans life is saved, without a broken bone, without a crushed larynx, without a truncheoned leg. That is how a public servant needs to deal with a member of the public. Watching it, I thought with sadness how this encounter would end in the US.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)niyad
(113,966 posts)Leith
(7,817 posts)is what happened in real life:
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)LakeArenal
(28,889 posts)It's the same in London where the police don't carry guns..
BobTheSubgenius
(11,580 posts)A friend of mine is a former cop from London. and he said their best weapon is the words they choose and the tone of voice they use. In the countless arrests he made over the years, he also said that he wouldn't need all the fingers on one hand to count the number of times he had to use his handcuffs.
There are, however, some civil liberties issues, and some of their standard practices would never fly on this side of the ocean. At least, not as of now; in a few years, who knows?
meadowlander
(4,413 posts)including the person "causing" the problem.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)sometimes they are the people that need the most help and care.
And don't even get me started on the number of deaf people who are brutalized by police for not "obeying".
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Or doesn't understand because of a language barrier or cognitive issues.
Or are having some kind of episode, physical or mental, in which they are in distress and so, can't really comply.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)And tragic.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)And Im married to a retired cop, we would say this is a civil manner and can't help you. People would get so pissed. They didn't want to hire attorneys and go through a court system, but it's the correct answer in lots of cases. Including grabbing a man out of a airline seat. I saw no reason to escalate it to a criminal act.
Then people say, do you know how much I pay in taxes, blah blah. Understand what is civil and what is criminal would be a good place to start. Cops should know better, they are taught that and have direct communications with a district attorney for clarification. I have no idea why everything is now a criminal manner but I guess lots of voters wanted things handled that way.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Thanks for posting.
athena
(4,187 posts)Thank you for stating this, explaining it, and doing it all so beautifully.
rivegauche
(601 posts)Here in New Mexico we had a horrible case of police abuse, when 2 cops shot and killed a homeless man for absolutely no reason. It was also filmed. And of course, when the trial came the cops got off.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)EarthFirst
(2,906 posts)There is clearly a training gap that needs to be addressed.
BadgerMom
(2,772 posts)Teachers must talk or change the environment or find some other way to solve a problem. I taught secondary school English. I never raised a hand or wanted to do so or knew of a peer who had done so. Teachers are authority figures who, as an integral part of their professionalism, must control people in many different situations. Require of police and ICE and others in authority what is required and mastered by now oft-reviled teachers.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)of the past. They were still doing it when I was in school.
Glad saner heads have prevailed, and agree that LEOs need to be as flexible and smart as teachers in dealing with their charges.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)Not policeman, obviously
LakeArenal
(28,889 posts)A standoff didn't mean shoot outs.. Cops used to try to talk to the aggressive "Perp" to see to see exactly why they were aggravated, what would the perp suggest as a solution, how realistic did the perp think that solution is, what options there are to solving, it's a negotiation. Cops didn't arrive on a scene and start muscling people around. If it took hours it took hours. United created and then escalated this situation for the sake of expediency.
This was a standoff, where no crime had even been committed. Just a customer standing up to a service provider. There have been so many analogies today.. This is mine... If I go to the bank and ask for my duly entitled money and the bank says "we can't do that today because one of the employees wants to use it for his overdraft, you can have it tomorrow.." We would see a stand off.. Even if they said to me, "in the 37,000 word contract you signed when you opened up your account says that we can.." It would be a stand off.
I have watched you fight the good fight on this subject all day ProfessorPlum..
Some folks just aren't going to get it.. Until it happens to them.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)"What they did wrong" to deserve their corporate assault.
What a neat trick corporations have pulled
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)aggiesal
(8,963 posts)1) To have an advanced degree.
2) Are paid very well.
Until this happens here, expect more of the same.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)when he was about to douse his own son (her grandson) with gasoline. I love that show. I love her character!
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)And I fell in love with that character when I saw her talk that guy down, without a shot fired, without a punch thrown.
I thought, now that is real policing.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Even progressives and Democrats. But we have our share of law and order types.
I watch the show Colony and think to myself that it is a realistic depiction of how people would actually act. Most would just put their heads down and do what they were told. Some would actively collaborate, but only a few would resist.
If you did a poll on this website, though, about a hypothetical invasion, most people here would say they would be in the resistance. That is in fact a lie. We would have our share of collaborators, or people who would go along to get along. I would probably be in the last group myself, since I am a physical coward. I would just want to bide my time until it was over.
But most people imagine themselves resisting the Nazis (or aliens, or whomever) with all their might. But it's a fantasy and would not be true.
And I think a fair number of people actually think cops are mostly good, despite evidence like this to the contrary.
If you have a chance, I recommend some recent episodes of the podcast Radiolab that deals with police shootings. In one of them, they interview a police chief in Florida (I can't remember where) who prefers to hire veterans because they do not panic when in risky situations. As a result, there are very few negative interactions in his community, when compared to other, similarly-sized places.
I suspect police training is entirely inadequate. Community policing is a thing of the past as well, when the cops actually knew the areas they served in.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)I make no claim on whether the cops in this situation are inherently good or bad...but I take great issue with the decision they made, the harm they caused, and their training.
mythology
(9,527 posts)By refusing to leave he was impeding everybody else. You can go ahead and call people fascists (with all the same meaning as Republicans calling people communists or socialists) but you aren't interested in actually discussing the merits, just childish name calling.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)"Impeding" being the horrible crime that it is.
Wouldn't want people to throw their bodies on to the gears of capitalism. It might slow down the gears!
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)With the fascists in my post. Nobody did that to you.
Hekate
(91,042 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)IronLionZion
(45,667 posts)I didn't find the one mentioned in the OP.
ProfessorPlum
(11,284 posts)Wish I could have found it.