I'm new here, and trying to learn....

[N77VG]

So what is a sane, doable and sensible immigration policy?

Most of the posts I see here are against restricting immigration, but I can't believe anyone actually
wants to fling open wide all the doors and allow anyone to come in with no vetting at all. I know I
wouldn't want that.

The other end of that binary notion is to build a sort of extreme "Trump Wall", and shut out entry
to virtually every potential immigrant, that's just as idiotic. So there has to be -some- middle ground...
the obvious problem is determining how and where to 'draw the line', as it were..

I admit I don't have the first clue. I only know it has to be somewhere between those 2 extremes;
what do you guys think?

[leftstreet]

1. Is someone proposing completely open borders?

No vetting?

I haven't heard that from either party

[N77VG]

2. No, I don't claim that, it was a marker for discussion

establishing a playing field to look for a solution.

[leftstreet]

5. So the markers are probably Reform vs Trump Tower Wall

Which...seems to me have been the political talking points for ages and ages

[bettyellen]

15. The "marker" should be current policy vs the proposals- not some outlandish bullshit...

No offense, but the the current process isn't something like 21-22 steps that take about 2 years for refugees to get visas.

It would be awesome if you did a bit of research before posting ideas that are no more than RW nonsense. Newbie or not, it would raise the level of your discourse.

[Iggo]

3. Ah-CHOOOOOO!!!

Sorry.

I'm allergic to straw.

[N77VG]

12. Wow, there's not much room for discussion here, is there?

jesus fucking christ.

[leftstreet]

14. Of course there is

As you said though, you're new and learning

You started out mistakenly assuming open borders without vetting was a valid position within the party. I've seen no evidence of that.

[JHB]

24. Welcome to DU, in both regular and rueful sense...

...given the thread.

This place draws a lot of trolls, and sometimes the eagerness to shoot them down can clip newbies.

I'd suggest saying a bit more in an OP to show your thinking more. In this case, simplifying for brevity came across as a strawman argument to many respondents.

[kentuck]

4. Obama deported more unregistered immigrants than almost anyone.

Was that a middle ground?

There was a net negative of immigration, as I recall?

[demmiblue]

6. Oh, good lawd.

[Wounded Bear]

7. The "open borders" bullshit is a RW talking point...

and generally a red herring. You'd do well to discard that notion if you plan on hanging around. Nobody (well virtually nobody) around here is for that.

The truth is that our current system has done fairly well since 9/11 at keeping foreign terrorists out. Trump won't admit it. Most of his acolytes won't either, because they've been scared by RW media for years about the "immigration terror."

Yes, there is middle ground. In fact, there was a comprehesive immigration reform bill passed by the Senate years ago. Repubs in the House killed it. Didn't even put it into committee. Repubs don't solve problems they can turn into politcal capital. It's how they roll.

[Still Sensible]

8. Exactly.... n/t

[cally]

9. First, we need a sense of humanity and NO PRIVATE PRISONS!!

Current, practice and policy is to force long treks through desert where most die. Those picked up by Border Patrol often have all belongings stolen, put into private prisons (corporations make massive amounts of money), sent through expedited court proceedings without lawyers, and deported with criminal violations of crossing border illegally.

THEN US DUMPS THEM ACROSS BORDER INTO TOWNS THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN. Purposefully, dumped away from social services in a town that has no jobs, they have no contacts, and no way to get back home. Cartels know where they are dumped. Often ONLY choice is sexual exploitation on working for cartel.

The policy is designed for this.

And, non-profits in borders currently think few migrants are getting through. Most die or are deported. This is very different than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Also, remember that many deported in ICE raids have lived here decades. They have proven to not be a threat. Current policy allows almost no path for brown people to enter the US legally--even on tourist visas. Easy for rich well connected but not for others.

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. Was already resolved,

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-2013-senate-passes-093530

but tparty and Obama hating assholes in the House refused to cooperate.

In hindsight their racist opposition paid dividends, their party was able to use the immigration issue to smack unsuspecting voters over the head with.

Claiming the incoming numbers were out of control, etc.

[stonecutter357]

11. seems legit !

[Iggo]

13. "Most of the posts I see here are against restricting immigration."

No.

[Dallasdem1988]

16. We should share reciprocity with the persons country of origin.

We just mirror their laws. Easy.

[Hortensis]

17. For one thing, we have many laws on the books against hiring

undocumented workers. Enforce them. Against the employers. It is very well known who these employers are, where they are located, and roughly how many undocumented workers they employ.

Insurance companies know; they charge lower rates for these companies knowing very, very few undocumented workers will be forced to file claims, including workers comp. The SocSec Admin accepts their payments into accounts everyone knows will never pay out, an enormous "tax" on working here. And so on.

Among those laws are already ones that allow employers who cannot meet their labor needs locally to demonstrate that and apply to import people to fill empty positions. Of course, those laws and quotas need to be updated to meet actual needs, but other nations do it and we can too. It's not exactly reinventing the wheel.

Many of the people who come here actually have the same jobs waiting for them year after year and many more will have to search for work but are genuinely needed by employers. A decent society would not require them to risk their wellbeing and even their lives in crossing the border and then live in fear because they are here illegally. Or cheat them six ways from Sunday because we can.

[MedusaX]

18. System in place

We have strong "vetting" procedures in place...

And the immigration from south & Central America & Mexico has been steadily decreasing...
and overall is at a net negative (-140,000+/-) from 2009- present ....

What the current focus should be is to establish a process by which those who are currently living& working in the US yet are either not authorized or are DACA protected can work towards permanent residency or citizenship.

It is silly (as well as malicious) to spend time & money hunting down & deporting unauthorized people just to say you did...

These are home owners & renters who actively participate in the workforce and in the consumer economy... they pay sales tax & either pay property tax or contribute to the property taxes paid by their landlords...

If govt spends a bunch of money hiring up ICE /CBP agents & putting them all in vehicles... and then having to invest in detention facilities-- in order to efficiently round up anywhere near the estimated 11 million residents who are thought to be unauthorized...
the result will be
• An immediate increase in vacant housing & defaulted mortgages / broken lease agreements
• Immediate job vacancies that will require business owners to spend $ $$ to train replacement workers--if there are any
• an immediate decrease in retail sales & service sector revenues
• defaulted car loans

Keep in mind that removing 11 million people from workforce & economy is more than the total population of San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, plus some....

As for Open Borders...
all Borders are patrolled and there are fences along the southern border anywhere that one is practical... much of the Texas /Mexico border is the Rio Grande and other barriers created by natural landforms ...

It is very telling when those of us who live along/near the southern border are not the ones requesting a wall nor are we advocating for deportation...
rather, we are the ones pointing out the severity of the problems either/both will ultimately cause..

One must then ask, who exactly is it that has a problem with immigrants?

[vlyons]

19. As I recall, the geneeral policy proposed has always been

People convicted of a felony get deported.

People, who have been good citizens, must pay any back taxes and pay a fine. Then they get a green card and go through the regular process of being a resident for at least 5 years, apply for citizenship, pass the citizenship test, and swear allegiance to the constitution.

[blm]

20. They were being vetted scrupulously under Obama Administration. Who said they weren't?

Trump and the GOP know-nothings would CLAIM there was no vetting, but it was NEVER TRUE.

So, once you stick to facts you realize there has always been a middle ground and a smarter way of doing things, and rejecting the LIES from GOP is the best way to start any discussion.

[cos dem]

21. It's about an honest approach to immigration and guest workers.

For too long, we've had the attitude that if you're "smart", you're welcome here for our universities and high tech jobs (e.g. Garmin). However, low skilled workers are not wanted.

The reality is our economy is heavily dependent on low skilled workers to pick our fruits and veggies, clean our hotel rooms, etc. These workers should also be welcome.

I think part of the problem is the businesses know that if their current illegal workforce becomes legal, then suddenly they have to start paying proper wages, provide a safe workplace, etc. That's why they've looked the other way for so many years.

In a way, the current environment brings everything to a head. Either legalize low-skilled guest workers, or find lazy Americans willing to do the work. Either way, you're not going to get away with substandard wages any longer.

There are also a very large number of people who consider this country home, but are technically illegal (e.g. Dreamers), not to mention those running from threats in their home countries, places like Honduras, El Salvador, Pakistan, etc. The reality is, immigration is a very complex subject, and every case is unique, but Idiot and his goon squad (ICE) just focus on the "illegal", not the actual humans.

[ananda]

22. Trial by fire, eh ...

The best solution is to google the Democratic position on immigration
and borders before posting an assumption.

[Warpy]

23. Oh, I think it has to be messy, decided case by case

especially for undocumented immigrants who have been here for years, had families, worked, paid taxes. Put them on track for green cards but not citizenship. That's where the illegal entry part hits them. Their children born here are citizens.

Same goes for refugees, and it doesn't matter if Dolt45 does business with their home countries or not (the only countries he banned were those he doesn't have business in). Obama's vetting process was about as extreme as it should get.

Fine employers who staff their businesses with undocumented workers. They're the real problem. It's big business, recruiting people, getting them in, and transporting them to businesses who want a cheap, docile work force. Make that unprofitable.

Fences and walls do damage to extended families on both sides of the border and to wildlife migration patterns. They also don't work. It's a dumb idea from a dumb man.

What isn't going to work is loading them onto cattle cars and dumping them in Mexico, no matter their country of origin, like Dolt45 thinks he's going to do. That policy would be a disaster for everyone, especially businesses that rely on trade with Mexico, and Mexico is one of our major trading partners.

[Blue_true]

25. some of the undocumented workers that are here come

for economic reasons. If we had Visas that allowed all types of workers to come to the country for work then go home knowing that they can return for more work, that would be a good solution for economic undocumented people. People that are running away from violence in their country should be given legal residency until they feel safe going back home or until they become US citizens, the residency should not be open ended, the people would need to make the apply for citizenship decision within five years, then start the seven year process for citizenship.