Every network is showing the picture of Mike Flynn at a Putin dinner

[La Lioness Priyanka]

they should point out that Jill Stein is at the same dinner. at the same table.

imagine being dumb enough to vote for her, while throwing out words like 'corporatist' and 'neoliberal' at the rest of us.

tsk tsk.

[doc03]

1. Every, does that include Faux? nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. ok. i lied. i don't know about fox.

[doc03]

5. If you are like me I couldn't stand to check Faux nt

[Afromania]

33. Me either

I find it particularly annoying when it preempts MSNBC programming every night. I mean I used to watch Al and Hardball, now it's some Republican lady and guy that likes authoritarian leadership.

[randome]

11. I think that 'news' network was implied, so of course Faux doesn't fit that category.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[nolabels]

103. From your mouth to heavens ears (LOL)

[anneboleyn]

75. Fox showed the pic yesterday. I am sure they weren't happy about it but they did show it

At least once anyway -- they have been trying valiantly to change the topic to immigration or terrorism but even today they are talking about the Russia topic.

[Blue_Roses]

95. Fox doesn't count as news

nt

[coco22]

3. They need to keep showing..

The pic at Mar a lago.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. it's not just Trump voters who caused this mess, plenty on the left are responsible for this shit

Jill Stein being one of them.

[MineralMan]

9. Yah, well, those folks weren't REALLY on the left.

Nope. Never were.

Four-letter-expletive Jill Stein!

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Here we go playing the blame game again...

although I agree that there was absolutely nothing worthwhile about Stein. Ever.

And, ignoring the darling of the lesser-lights of the left hanging out where she shouldn't really be is a little lame.

But, the simple truth is that we have this idiot as our President simply because of the millions who did not vote for Hillary. Some voted for Trump, some for Stein, some wrote in Bernie, some didn't vote at all-- and in the end, Trump won because of all of them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. there were plenty of people discouraged from voting because they were fed a LIE

and that lie was that Clinton was corrupt and bad much like Trump. And Stein voters had a lot to do with how that lie got cemented.

[TreasonousBastard]

22. I agree, but it was still bigger than just Stein...

I have no ideas how her campaign could have been run better, but she just couldn't shake the mistrust she was saddled with.

The Republicans pushed the memes as far as they could, and they stuck. And never forget Bernie being happy to just give lip service to "Well, Hillary is not a crook. At least I don't think so..."

But, this isn't the time to refight the election, so we'll agree that Stein really should just fade back into the shadows.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. it's always the time to fight lies spread against solid public servants like HRC

we didn't fight hard enough for her, for gore, and for kerry. and unless we learn from our mistakes, we'll continue to make them.

[TreasonousBastard]

28. Good point, but I don't know if we ever will...

There is that old Will Rogers quote about us being disorganized, and I just ran into it again yesterday.

At a local demonstration against our R congressman, yet another group I never heard of was passing out stuff. If all these damn coalitions of three people ever managed to get together, we could be a real force. But, noooo... Sometimes it's ego, sometimes they think they have a better way, and sometimes they're just stoned.

The pink pussy hats were a great idea, an even better a symbol than teabags used to be, but where are they now?

[Kentonio]

120. I don't give a rats ass about your hero Hillary.

I care about the future of America and of the progressive left. We're being gifted a golden opportunity to take down the Republicans in a way that could mean the end of their rotten broken party. If you want to squander that with the kind of Democratic in-fighting the right laugh at us for, then I don't know what to say to you.

If we grab defeat from the jaws of victory one more damn time..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. and i give even less of a shit about your hero Stein, who is not a Democrat

and therefore I am not indulging in Democratic infighting. you are.

[Kentonio]

131. I don't care about Stein either.

But I do care about Democrats hitting left when the right leave themselves wide open. Seriously, stop fighting yesterdays grudge battles and get your head in the real game. We're looking at another Watergate here, and we can't risk screwing it up.

[NCTraveler]

25. It's almost always bigger than just one thing.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't discus each item on its own merits.

"I agree, but it was still bigger than just Stein..."

If that is the metric used for acceptable discussion topics, we would never be able to discuss anything.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. +1

[TreasonousBastard]

30. Huh? I got the impressin that she was putting too much blame on Stein for the loss...

I may have been wrong about that, but the loss was certainly due to more than Stein.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. was stein alone responsible? no. was she responsible in part? yes.

is this a monstrous government to be even a small part responsible for? YES

[NCTraveler]

32. I don't see where she went against this thought.

"the loss was certainly due to more than Stein."

[Cha]

94. Right.. and no one said it was about one thing.. But,

stein owns a chunk of trump as does SS.

[NCTraveler]

106. +1

"stein owns a chunk of trump as does SS."

Some seem to want to completely gloss over how she was a Trump surrogate. I think their words are transparent as could be.

[Cha]

107. Oh yeah.. it's obvious.

[Mars and Minerva]

122. More like Putin Surrogates

If the truth be told.

[NCTraveler]

123. Trump surrogate.

Steins laughable claims about the Democratic Party in comparison to the Republican Party had nothing to do with Russia. She flat out carried the water for Trump. Is still doing so today.

Welcome to DU.

[The Sand Reckoner]

61. It's not too early

to remind the (allegedly progressive) people who voted Stein or Johnson in 2016 or Nader in 2000 of the definition of insanity. And it can't be done too often, either.

[TreasonousBastard]

68. OK to remind them, but there will always be a few who will never be convinced, so...

it's at least equally important to get the vast middle off its ass and into the voting booth.

[brush]

36. Well, if you include Stein backers you have to include the Bernie Bros.

They contributed loudly to the "corrupt, corporatist, corporate whore Hillary" meme.

[LanternWaste]

72. An informal analysis of cause and effect is not a blame game...

An informal analysis of cause and effect is not a blame game... except to those who are unaware of cause and effect.

JFC.

[TreasonousBastard]

78. It shouldn't be but...

is it really necessary to continue to split hairs over this?

[The Sand Reckoner]

56. Jill Stein only cast one vote for herself

I blame all of the Hillary haters who preferred to indulge their "conscience" (wtf!) and vote for Stein or Johnson instead.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. yes, but she sure helped spread a story to those who are susceptible to stories.

[The Sand Reckoner]

63. True enough

But she can't be blamed for the stupidity of everyone who voted for her.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. i think she can be blamed for the lying and the false equivocating

and yes, i do hold a lot of supposed progressives responsible for their shitty immoral decision to vote for her

[Cha]

96. Yes she can.. by her words alone.. Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 stein on trump & Hillary

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

they damn well will.. sitting on their millions while the Planet goes to shite and people go hungry and Immigrants banned from the US by "the bumbler" according the ever present idiot, jill stein

[The Sand Reckoner]

104. Sorry, but you'd have to be far dumber than Jill Stein

to believe that crap or to vote based on it.

[Cha]

105. It's the crap stein pushed to her sucker fans that makes stein culpable

[The Sand Reckoner]

115. Oh, she's not clean in all this, certainly

But in the end, each individual voter is responsible for their voting choice. Everyone who voted for her was equally free to reject her, but chose not to.

[JHan]

6. Yep, I wondered about that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. did you see this tweet?

Link to tweet

?lang=en

i saw it and for some reason i thought of you!

[JHan]

19. lol lol ...One of the greatest tweets in the history of mankind.

also LOL

Link to tweet

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. do you wanna post this in the AA group? i'm sure most people have seen it

but if they haven't, they will get a laugh out of it

[JHan]

24. lol done.

[Blue_Roses]

97. lol...

[MineralMan]

7. Good. They should be showing that image.

And Jill Stein? Expletive Jill Stein!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. the fucking huckster jill stein to be precise

[MineralMan]

17. That's rather mildly put...

[sweetloukillbot]

42. I'm becoming increasingly convinced it was a two-man con job. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. 2 person you mean. one man and woman both controlled by Putin.

[sweetloukillbot]

71. Fair enough. Thanks for the correction

[NurseJackie]

8. Jill Stein was there too. This can't be pointed out often enough.

imagine being dumb enough to vote for her, while throwing out words like 'corporatist' and 'neoliberal' at the rest of us.

I know!! RIGHT??

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. +1

[n2doc]

10. Stein voters were like Nader voters

They will never vote for the Democrat. Never. Get over them and concentrate on the vastly larger number of folks who voted for Obama but did not vote for Clinton, or did not vote at all even though they could have.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. it's not that simple. there were plenty of people discouraged from voting because they were fed

a lie repeatedly, and that lie was that Clinton was corrupt and bad much like Trump. And Stein voters had a lot to do with how that lie got cemented.

[n2doc]

26. Nothing like the MSM repeating those lies

And yet I rarely see folks blaming them for Clinton's loss. Why might that be? You folks have a vendetta going, one that gets in the way of trying to fix the problem. You will never silence the far left kooks. And you look petty and you are wasting time and energy doing so.

There are at most 1-2% of them. There are close to 50% who didn't vote. Figure out how to reach them. Obama did, at least in 2008.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. i do have a vendetta against people who lied about a great candidate

why shouldn't i?

and her efforts to equate DJT and HRC caused voter suppression. Why should she be let of the hook?

[n2doc]

34. Go ahead. Waste your time

You will accomplish noting except maybe feeling better about yourself. I guess that is something.

Have a good day.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. i'm sure you are accomplishing marvelous things by posting on DU

i have no such illusions about myself.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

49. I do. The goddamn politically-corporate-conservative media's been touting the Hillary smearings

For decades.

Part of the reason for ppl veering to Stein or Disregarding Bernie's plea to unite behind Hillary.

The distrust and outright hatred against Hillary is, in my not very humble opinion, a mixture of deep culturally ingrained sexism plus broadly publicized reinforcement over a lonnnnng period of time, with no widespread rebuttals.

Yes, she was popular during her time as Secretary of State, because she did a great job. Even spawned a few awesome, powerful memes.

But those quickly sank back into oblivion as the repuke hate machine got rolling again.

Unfortunately, liberals tend to be intellectuals, and with that often comes an egotism that demands attention. (Not exempting myself, either! I'm aware I get an egoistic boost when spouting my oh-so-insightful opinions!).

The other problem with us liberals is the dark, flip side being non-authoritarian. We have a hard time uniting because we often will not compromise, somehow unable or unwilling to consider the greater good served by sublimating our own individual objections. (exemplified by the "Bernie or Bust" or "Stein is the Only Real Guardian of the People" viewpoints.)

[LiberalLovinLug]

66. thanks doc

Obsessing about Stein is as fruitful to Democrats as Trump obsessing about Hilary's popular vote win is to Republicans.

There will always be someone who is more left. Its a free country. If someone else like Nader or Stein thinks they can do a better job, they have the right to run for office IMO. The Green Party rose after the Democratic Party veered right and under Bill Clinton went for 'triangulation' and the third way. It was bound to happen. I'm sure the Democratic leadership even discussed this as a possible fallout at the time, but thought that the increased influence and money from the corporate class , and the public support for their more 'business friendly' approach would 'trump' any drop off with the more leftist segment of the party at the time.

What's interesting is that Stein and Nader are never criticized for their policies or general principles, only that they dared to be critical of both Republicans and Democrats. And I think her's and Ralph's criticism hurt the most because it came from the left and based more in the truth of the situation, as opposed to Republican's criticism that was all based on lies and rumour.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. I criticize both for not giving any context to decisions made

as though decisions are made in their bubble of 2% of the population.

that's not interesting, it's dumb and lacks nuanced thought.

[LiberalLovinLug]

93. You SAY you do.

without actually doing it.

that is interesting.

by 'context', and "their bubble of 2%" I gather you mean that their positions don't have a prayer of being implemented. But that is hardly a criticism of their actual policies. Every great progressive advancement started with ideas that at the time were scoffed at as unattainable.

What actual positions do you disagree with?

Fighting climate change more aggressively?
Investing now, and more heavily in alternative energy?
Less corporate dominance in decisions for all of us?
Working more for the majority and less for just 1%?

I will extend an olive branch and actually agree to a point. I would say that its easy to be critical of the Democratic party's cozy corporate relationship from a position of a tiny minority party who has no real shot at governing. You have nothing to lose. You don't have to back up your tough talk with having any real world political fallout. The Democrats created a vacuum for the left and the Greens took advantage of it.

But that criticism that I acknowledge, is hardly a reason to dismiss what they stand for. Or worse paint them as evil or that they should be hated. I just don't get that.

It would be easy to get rid of the Greens and Stein, or Nader, or whomever comes after that, which they will. And that is to listen and adapt and acknowledge the same concerns more vocally.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

162. i disagree with the position that you can show up every four years and create radical change

that is not a viable position.

they always will be a spoiler for the Democrats because between the four years, they make no effort to show up in local and state elections to move the country in a more leftward way.

Stein is a fucking huckster and the Green party is a spoiler party. IF they really wanted to create social change they should take a look at how the Working Families Party in new york does it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

163. Because you don't look for them you don't see them

But they are a very small party in the US. You can't expect to see them on the same scale as the two main parties. I am not a Green party member. But its easy to Google them to find out they have been growing slowly. And many members I'm sure work withing their local communities.
On the world stage they are in 90 countries and are a part of many government coalitions. So I guess there are some humans that don't share your distaste of them.

This is their platform I found on the Washington Greens site, many of the same issues that Democrats have:

https://greenpartywashington.org/about/


The Green Party supports grassroots citizen movements on a wide variety of issues. Green have mobilized around climate change, single payer health care, ending corporate personhood, sustainable energy sources, ending the drug war, rights for all (including marital and reproductive rights), election reforms, and strong, self-sustaining local communities. We must have more options to increase voter participation, particularly for those who feel disenfranchised. We must create alliances and change the rules that currently benefit the large corporations and the wealthy.


Again, which of those ideas do you have a problem with?

I feel I must always put a caveat on these posts to say that NO, I would not recommend voting Green over Democratic as the stakes are too high. I only hope that the Democratic leadership realizes how they have not paid enough attention to the progressive wing of their party and that along with Warren and Sanders will move back from a center/right party to a center/left party, and scoop up all those Green voters.

But to say she is a 'fucking huskster' because she dared to run for office in competition with Democrats and Republicans? Really? I'm sorry that democracy bothers you so much.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

164. i have a problem with lying. And it is a lie to pretend that massive social change happens overnight

and the WFP in ny is small too, but they somehow manage to do what the green party purports to do, but does not do.

No, she's a fucking huckster because she is. Her whole 'recounting the vote' was a complete scam. She has insane and completely unscientific ideas about wifi and vaccines.

That and she CONTINUOUSLY lied about HRC

there is a reason she has lost EVERY fucking election at every level she has participated in

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-case-against-jill-stein-w436362

http://origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/290437-jill-stein-the-liberal-pseudo-scientific-demagogue

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/five-truths-about-green-partys-jill-stein

[LiberalLovinLug]

165. You have a lot of opinions but little in the way of facts

How was the recount a scam? She never took any of the money for her parties' coffers. And as far as I can recall, Hillary joined up and she was widely praised in here for that move. What pray tell would she have to gain if the best happened and Hillary was found to be the actual winner of those states? I'm sure we'd not hear a peep from yourself about the evil Dr. Stein in that case.

When did she ever say real change would happen overnight? If I recall the same reactionary diatribe was thrown at Bernie. The first step is simply to educate the public. If no party talks about universal healthcare, it won't ever get to the next stage.

And there is concern still by some scientists about the harmful effects of wifi and cell phone radiation. Studies are ongoing with the American Cancer society only saying that results are 'inconclusive' as of yet. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/cell-phones-fact-sheet
Their are disadvantages of being a party without the corporate strings attached, but there are also advantages in that the are not prone to the same pressures to sweep public concerns under the rug for the sake of pleasing the big telecom industries.

Tell me a lie she has said about Hillary. She had strong opinions, but that is very different from a lie. She called her a warmonger. Fact is Hillary criticized Obama for not being aggressive enough in Syria. She definitely came across as someone who would support using the military more to solve world problems (Libya). So I can see why especially someone who is running against her might use that phrase. She criticized Hillary's close ties with Wall Street. Well she is certainly not the first or the only one to do that.

Besides, my general argument is not that she or any politician in any party would have personality flaws, or the odd out of mainstream opinion. I am speaking more in the general sense of the Green Party itself, or any progressive party. For me I just look at it differently I guess. I don't hate on other people that share my core beliefs just because they don't belong to the same party. I look upon them as allies. The Democratic Party needs other voices from the left nipping at their heels instead of all the nipping done from the alt-right. Where the 'problem' is always portrayed as that the Democrats are too liberal....no matter how far they swing to the right. We need more common sense critics from the left.

IMO

[seaglass]

114. You post on the "far left kooks" website pretty much every day - why is that?

Makes your attempts at diversion somewhat suspect.

[n2doc]

116. Because I have friends there

Some from DU. Suspect all you want, that is the Nazi way. Maybe you can report me to the secret police for being a mole

[seaglass]

117. Can see why you'd fit right in over there. n/t

[n2doc]

118. I love the ignore feature n/t

[seaglass]

121. Good for you. I'd rather call out those who play on both sides of the fence. You posted anti-Trump

toons over here while posting anti-Hillary toons over there.

[R B Garr]

20. +1. Stein needs to be investigated. She sure doesn't mind the oligarchs

after all.

[Soxfan58]

37. Saw that pic days ago

On DU

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. i saw it several times before the election

but at the time when HRC brought up Russian interference we were told that she was just trying to distract from her corruption. people are so fucking dumb

[Soxfan58]

73. Amen to that last part!

And I am not at all religious

[retrowire]

38. I considered going green

Until I learned about Jill Stein.

[jmg257]

39. Hey I am sure that was a nice dinner and visit - paid for by Russia of course.

Never have too much compromising material on US political figures.

[IronLionZion]

40. There's a special place in hell for liberals who didn't support Hillary

Trump did everything he could to prove to us why he must never be president under any circumstances.

[BainsBane]

41. I still wonder how she got money to run TV ads

[SticksnStones]

43. Wonder if she'll get caught up in the net that's being cast to catch Russian enablers

Wonder if there are any phone calls she's now regretting...

Follow the money...it's always about the money.

[Hekate]

46. She certainly has enough $$$$ now, after running the recount con on the country

[BainsBane]

47. scam artist.

[heaven05]

44. exactly

imagine how dumb...one of my ex friends of 20 years+, now an in passing associate I see at regular coffee and watering holes, is now lamenting his vote.....via his texts I still get. Disdain is all I can give back.

[mehrrh]

48. what was that about?

Jill Stein at the same dinner? Why? The Russian Green organization was opposed to her hypocrisy in being there with Putin.
Why was she there? Was she useful in siphoning off votes for Clinton and thereby aiding Trump's ascension?
Is she Putin/Trump's useful idiot?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. Is she Putin/Trump's useful idiot? yes

[niyad]

50. several people on my list who will have that picture shoved in their faces.

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. Forgot about that, thanks for reminding me

3rd party voters and their nonstop bashing of Hillary is why this happened.

Sure crosscheck is also, but that one thing would have changed it all

[LisaM]

53. I know.

IIRC, Thom Hartmann was at that dinner, too (though I don't think he was at the same table).

[ailsagirl]

54. So we cannot say the MSM is ignoring this

Thank God

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. well they are ignoring stein, for better or worse, they didn't ignore the Flynn story

[ailsagirl]

69. True

This is SERIOUS NEWS-- anyone would be crazy to ignore it

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. ...

your post is entirely too full of false equivalence and BS accusations for me to deal with.

[Tragl1]

74. That's okay.

Self reflection and acknowledging the faults in our belief systems, and the faults in the persons that run our political systems does not come easy. Reality is if the Democratic Party had a platform that supported the middle class in real tangible policy and direction, worked to provide a progressive alternative to what has been for decades of a shrinking middle class income and economic mobility. Trump would not be in power now, Russian hacking aside, it would have not made a difference if they did or did not. The vast majority of people when put issue to issue, align themselves with populist progressive views. I don't think you understand the concept of false equivalency as it relates to my post. Ask yourself this, are you in favor or opposed to the drone program? If you are unfamiliar their are some great articles over at the Intercept and also podcasts at DemocracyNow.

[Cha]

99. Well, I called him out on his spreading bullshit Propaganda on this board.

[Cha]

98. stein is a fucking liar and her "intentions" are to ratfuck the US elections

Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 stein on trump & Hillary

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

they damn well will.. sitting on their millions while the Planet goes to shite and people go hungry and Immigrants banned from the US by "the bumbler" according the ever present idiot, jill stein

Don't be spouting that propaganda bullshite about Hillary and President Obama on this board.

[Tragl1]

111. I don't support Jill Stein.

Ma'am, your are missing my point entirely. I am speaking to the investiture of the executive branch going back for decades. You can not say neoliberalism had nothing to do with the current state of politics as it is today? Right, also their are problems with the drone program, Gauntanamo, the surveillance state, that was under Obama. It's not propaganda to point out the fact that James Clapper lied to the American people, he kept his job, this was under Obama. I believe in honest discussion, with studious perspective, of all persons in power, that includes our democratic leaders. Answer me this do you agree or disagree with the Obama deportation policy? I disagree right, but I can also appreciate DACA and dreamers. You can objectively criticize. It's what grown people do, read, think, post, discuss. Thank you.

[Cha]

112. My point is stop bashing Hillary and President Obama with bullshit propaganda.

[Tragl1]

113. *facepalm* sigh....

Have a good morning ma'am.

[Recursion]

58. Isn't that meat on her plate?

Didn't she swear up and down she's vegetarian?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

60. isnt that her hanging out with oligarchs?

didn't she swear up and down she was against capitalism and oligarchy?

[Recursion]

62. Details, details

I never believed her about the oligarchs. I did believe her about vegetarianism.

[Orrex]

84. Boom.

[workinclasszero]

76. No kidding

I wonder what Jill's payoff was?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. wasn't getting Trump in office reward enough for her?

[workinclasszero]

79. That and the leftover millions?

from the recount scam I guess.

[Goblinmonger]

80. Yeah, this is really helpful.

And you know things like this aren't mutually exclusive, right?

Did I vote for Clinton? Yes.
Was she the best candidate? By far
Is Stein a nutbag? Yup.

Does all that mean that Clinton isn't a corporatist and a neoliberal? Not at all.

But at this point, this is unimportant. We have a Trump problem in the White House.

But when it comes time to pick the next Dem candidate for President, we need to remember the things that Clinton did wrong and what could have been done differently on her part. She owns part of the outcome of this election, too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. is any candidate perfect? no

Do we have to pretend that they are? no

[Goblinmonger]

85. No we don't

But it seems like your OP (and many on DU) want to just dismiss the obvious problems Clinton had. Just because Stein met with Putin and is crazy, that has zero impact (as you want to indicate it has) on Clinton as neoliberal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. i think her problems were overblown while every other problem was understated both by the left

and the right.

we heard about her problems endlessly. hence, we might be slightly over it.

this election was about every clinton problem real and imagined, and a lot of supposed liberals loved adding to the imagined problems.

[Goblinmonger]

87. I would agree with that statement.

It is very frustrating to now see the media talking about Trump's negatives being so bad when during the election the were like "Well, there are negatives on both sides" like they equaled out. Hopefully this shitstorm we are in now makes journalists rethink that approach.

I'm just a little frustrated about still blaming this on Stein/Sanders. Their negative impact (if there was one) on this election is miniscule compared to other aspects of what went down.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

88. i think their negative impact was huge, because of their hold over young voters

who don't actually have great memories of an actual republican in office

so when they lied and implied she was equally corrupt or whatever BS that the deliberately lied about, they helped make this happen. now they stand up as some sort of liberal heroes. NO.

[Goblinmonger]

89. I think that happened to some extent.

I teach high school and have kids in college, so I don't think it was overly wide spread but I admittedly have a small sample size.

I would place much more of that blame on Stein than Sanders. He did was he was supposed to do. He made it clear whom to vote for and why.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

90. i do too and in fact had left Sanders out of this conversation till you brought him in.

i do think he implied she was corrupt enough times that it hurt her. President Obama did not do that when he ran against her, and they were in a much closer fight.

[JHan]

91. If I never hear the word "neo-liberal" or "corporatist" again...

it won't be a moment too soon. I swear..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

92. I KNOW!!!!!

i bet you 90% of these people dont know what neoliberal means.

[Cha]

101. Yeah, I just told him they were bullshite propaganda buzzwords

meant to drag her down.

[uponit7771]

110. +1, the false equivalency and bias of higher expectations is gob smacking

[Cha]

100. You have no idea what you're talking about.. Hillary is Progressive..

that's just bullshite propaganda Buzzwords meant to drag her down.. "corporatist" "neoliberal" means jack shit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. +1

[Goblinmonger]

129. Well, Hillary has said she isn't a Progressive, so......

I don't have a problem with her not being a Progressive. I voted for her even though I am strongly a Progressive. But if you really think that the Dem platform would have looked like it didn't if Sanders and his supporters didn't MAKE it happen, then you are kidding yourself.

She's a moderate Dem. She is to the right of some liberal Repubs. She is not a Progressive. Compare her positions to Sanders, Warren, Feingold, Franken. They are further left than her.

And, from my perspective as a progressive, trying to tell me that she is doesn't help my perception of her. I know what progressives are and I know who isn't one. And telling me that I'm falling for propaganda when I think she isn't is just a silly approach. Progressives are not idiots.

[Cha]

132. She had the most progressive platform of any Dem.. so I don't want

to hear about your labels or those other people.

They weren't running for President.

[Goblinmonger]

133. So no response to the fact she doesn't identify as a progressive?

And are we pretending that Sanders had nothing to do with the platform being that progressive?

[Cha]

136. She is a Pragmatic Progressive and I don't know why you're trying to

drag her down with your labels. Whatever the reason it's not working.

[George II]

150. She never said she was not a "progressive". What exactly did she say?

[Goblinmonger]

156. "You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center.... I plead guilty"

Said no progressive ever.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-democrat-progressive/

[George II]

158. This is in that article too:

"I take a backseat to no one," Clinton told a New Hampshire audience in July, "When you look at my record in standing up and fighting for progressive values."

Words are words, actions are actions.

[uponit7771]

108. Doesn't mean she isn't from Mars either cause sane people aren't asking that question like rational

... people who aren't questioning her progressive record.

We've gone over this shit already no?

[Goblinmonger]

130. So when she says she's not a progressive

should I assume she's not sane.

Yeah, we have been over this before. The progressive wing of the Dem party knows that she isn't a progressive. That's fine. Jumping up and down and saying she is, doesn't make her one. And that's OK. Moderate Dems are fine, too. I voted for one in pretty much every presidential election I've voted in.

[Cha]

134. Hillary is a Pragmatic Progressive.. she got things done I don't care what you say.

I know what the Dem Platform was.

And, don't be trying to intimate Hillary isn't "sane".. You're the only one talking about that.

[Goblinmonger]

143. You really aren't following the sane comment?

You said anyone who says she isn't a progressive isn't sane. SHE said she isn't a progressive. By your logic she isn't sane. QED

[Cha]

146. I said no such thing. Quit trying to deflect. Hillary is a "pragmatic Progressive"..

[Goblinmonger]

148. Um your post 108

And "pragmatic progressive" smells a lot like BS.

[Cha]

149. Hmmm #108 isn't my post. Please pay attention. Pragmatic Progressives get

things done.

Whatever it sounds like to you is irrelevant. It's progress

[Goblinmonger]

155. My bad on post 108. Was on my phone and read it wrong.

To be considered a progressive of any stripe, one first needs to be a progressive. Plenty of progressives far more to the left than Clinton have gotten things done. If she had been leading the charge, we would not have had gay marriage since she made it clear she felt it was between a man and woman. We would still have Don't Ask Don't Tell.

[Cha]

166. Hillary is a Progressive. I don't care what you think.. she had Progressive Platform

[uponit7771]

137. Strawman, I said her PROGRESSIVE RECORD.

[Goblinmonger]

141. You're using that word incorrectly

Quoting her saying she isn't a progressive isn't a straw man.

[uponit7771]

142. Red Herring, I talked about her progressive record you're talking about some other shit that has...

...nothing to do with her progressive record regardless of what she calls herself.

PERIOD

Its always easy to find those who bash or even do so passive aggressively

[Goblinmonger]

144. Again, no.

How is it a red herring to quote her? Why do you insist she is a progressive when she doesn't think she is?

[uponit7771]

145. Because the quote has nothing to do with her .......... RECORD ........ Something the bashers never

... want to talk about just spout RT bullshit like all DUrs are LIVs

[Goblinmonger]

147. So mature to start with the "You're a right winger" crap

OK I'll bite.

Let's start with her stance against gay marriage when progressives were fighting for it. Why did she say marriage was between a man and woman?

[JHan]

151. Really? Really?

Yes by all means, after the argument has been settled, and leaders of the Democratic party are backing gay marriage, let's raise the times folks flip flopped on it - including Obama btw. This is water under the bridge, nonsensical, because these politicians ( Clinton, Obama et al ) are fully in support of marriage equality.

Feel free to cut off your nose to spite your face over already settled policy questions.

[JHan]

159. Here's a shocker:

Politicians are not consistent, sometimes they change opinion because of a change of heart ( which is fine), new information, or political calculations.

The outcomes are the point. The outcomes are important. The outcomes are all that matter.

It was Obama supreme court picks that tiipped the scales towards marriage equality - THAT is what matters.

The democratic PLATFORM as of 2016 was vastly superior and the obvious choice if progressive issues matter to you.

All else is noise.

[Goblinmonger]

160. That's why I voted for Clinton.

But if we are going to pretend that the 2016 platform would have been as progressive as it was were it not for Sanders, then we are fooling ourselves. And that IS Important looking ahead to 2018 and 2020. We need to mobilize the progressives.

[JHan]

161. I didn't agree with Sanders on many things so it was fine for me.

All I wanted was a leader to steady the ship, keep the policies that matter to me in place and wherever possible, improve upon them - and if we had a majority in congress, fix legislation the Republicans dragged their feet on.

[Cha]

135. The Dem Platform was the most Progressive ever.. Hillary

is a pragmatic progressive.. she got things done.

[uponit7771]

138. yeap, and people who want to bash don't want to talk about her progressive record either.

[Cha]

140. Yeah, all they have are bashing buzzwords. That mean absolutely nothing.

[JHan]

153. Hillary is center left and as such..

incorporated some progressive ideas. But you know, that's not enough for some people.

[Cha]

154. Yeah, she's still getting propaganda labels trying to get attached

to her on this very thread. But, we're having none of it.

[lark]

81. Anyone who voted for Stein should be first in line to get hurt by drumpf.

They earned this MFer and need to "enjoy" the fruits of their labors. Too bad the rest of us will suffer right alongside them, the jerks.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

83. +1

[Cha]

102. Al Giordano replying to stein tweet on flynn

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[La Lioness Priyanka]

127. ...

[starshine00]

139. that is the weirdest thing

who is pushing for war with Iran? And who is allied with Iran? Putin, also allied with Assad in Syria.

Very strange things going on...the articles I read when I googled this today said she was at the dinner as a guest of Putin too, and admitted to meeting with him...not just randomly seated at the same table.

[Tatiana]

109. It would not surprise me if Jill Stein was cultivated as a Russian asset.

There was no reason for her to run except to spoil the election.

That said, the morons that voted for her were never going to vote for Hillary so this is beating a dead horse.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

126. me too

[JI7]

119. HAHAHA

I see people don't want those who fucking lie and clearly have an agenda to help republicans with their dem bashing to be called out.

Fuck jill stein nader sarandon and the rest of the usual bunch .

And they were attacking Clintons character. Trying to make her out to be some horrible evil person.

Same shit they did Gore.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

125. +1

[Turbineguy]

152. But who wants to take about lifting sanctions

during dinner?