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Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:39 PM

 

Sanders reopens Dem primary wounds

Of course he does ... divide and conquer

Sanders’s recent swipe against former Vice President Joe Biden has angered Democratic party officials, who are accusing the onetime Democratic presidential candidate of refighting a bitter primary season that ripped the party in two.

The independent senator from Vermont has also infuriated supporters of Tom Perez, a top contender for Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairman, after an unprovoked attack against the former Labor secretary.

Sanders, who backs Perez rival Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) for DNC chairman, has shaken up a race that has until now featured few fireworks.

The DNC campaign changed this week after Biden endorsed Perez for chairman. Sanders let loose, saying that it’s time to move beyond the “failed status-quo approach” of Biden and Perez.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317770-sanders-reopens-dem-primary-wounds

328 replies, 17837 views

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Reply Sanders reopens Dem primary wounds (Original post)
otohara Feb 2017 OP
LisaM Feb 2017 #1
kstewart33 Feb 2017 #38
LisaM Feb 2017 #41
kstewart33 Feb 2017 #45
blue cat Feb 2017 #277
Gothmog Feb 2017 #77
MADem Feb 2017 #201
NurseJackie Feb 2017 #291
LiberalFighter Feb 2017 #325
billfmsd Feb 2017 #120
BainsBane Feb 2017 #128
billfmsd Feb 2017 #148
BainsBane Feb 2017 #151
billfmsd Feb 2017 #159
BainsBane Feb 2017 #163
billfmsd Feb 2017 #173
Jim Beard Feb 2017 #186
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MADem Feb 2017 #209
Justice Feb 2017 #215
Demsrule86 Feb 2017 #236
sammythecat Feb 2017 #268
lapucelle Feb 2017 #169
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kstewart33 Feb 2017 #176
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MADem Feb 2017 #197
billfmsd Feb 2017 #200
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kstewart33 Feb 2017 #260
Dustlawyer Feb 2017 #229
Gothmog Feb 2017 #264
Gothmog Feb 2017 #262
NurseJackie Feb 2017 #292
WinkyDink Feb 2017 #319
LiberalFighter Feb 2017 #327
question everything Feb 2017 #179
Demsrule86 Feb 2017 #235
billfmsd Feb 2017 #287
Demsrule86 Feb 2017 #300
Name removed Feb 2017 #306
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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:40 PM

1. What the what?

C'mon Bernie. Biden???

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Response to LisaM (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:33 PM

38. If Bernie wants to run the Democratic Party...

first become a member of the party. Show real commitment. Until then, not interested.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:36 PM

41. I feel the same way.

I do think that one of his goals was tearing apart the fabric of the DNC. We had a great candidate, damn it, and we got a lot more votes. We need to start examining process and interference.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:39 PM

45. I agree. nt

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Response to LisaM (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:24 PM

277. +1

And I voted for him.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:10 PM

77. Sanders needs to change his FEC filings to run as a democrat in 2018

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #77)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:08 AM

201. He won't. He'd look like a hypocrite if he did.

I don't think he'll be running as a Democrat for anything in future.

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Response to MADem (Reply #201)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 11:33 PM

291. From your keyboard ...

(you know the rest.)

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:55 PM

325. I checked and his 2018 Senate campaign has him as Independent.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:21 PM

120. Why does it matter?

 

He votes almost the same as Democrats. If his policies are good, why does it matter which party he is in?

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #120)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:32 PM

128. It matters if he wants to control the direction of the party

which the article in the OP suggests he does.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #128)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:56 PM

148. Having an opinion doesn't mean he wants to control the party.

 

If he wanted to control the party, He'd be running for the chair himself. And he would probably win. But he's more needed in the Senate.

Bernie has sound unwavering positions on issues. As long as people have the majority of the same positions on issues, he will support them. He works with Democrats because they have more of the same positions on issues than Republicans. It's that simple.

Democrats need to learn to see beyond popularity in their own party.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:00 PM

151. It looks like far more than having an opinion to me

The Chair is an organization and administrative position. Bernie doesn't want the job. He wants to decide who holds it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #151)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:13 PM

159. He's not forcing people to agree with him. It's just an opinion.

 

Who wouldn't want to decide who holds the job? I'm sure there's some Republicans who have an opinion of who should have the job too. A few of them might even have the best interest of Democrats in their opinion.

Bernie is influential. Bernie is persuasive. He's earned the respect. Should he not be allowed to have an opinion because of that?

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #159)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:25 PM

163. This video makes my point clearly enough

He says he wants to determine the direction of the party.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/bernie-sanders-muddles-ally-s-message-dnc-race-n715651

Who wouldn't want to decide who holds the job? I don't want to decide it. I think a lot of people don't feel compelled to control who holds party offices. In my case, I haven't heard all the candidates so I don't feel informed enough to take a stand. And since I'm not voting on it, I don't need to. It does bother me that so many make decisions based on their position in the primary rather than based on what the various individuals bring to the position.


I never said he shouldn't have an opinion. You asked why it mattered that he hadn't joined the party, and you cited his voting record. I said it mattered if he wants to control the direction of the party, which he says he does in the video link above. DNC chair is an intra-party matter.

First you say he doesn't want to control the party chair. Now you said everyone wants to. You've completely changed your argument. I guess the point doesn't really matter as long as the answer is Bernie.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #163)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:56 PM

173. I didn't change my argument.

 

My argument has been the same since the beginning. Go back an read it.

It's my opinion that Bernie is entitle to an opinion, even if he's not a member of the party.

First, the DNC chair does not "control" the party. Else it wouldn't be a "democratic" party, now would it?

Second, saying that Bernie would like to decide who holds the DNC chair job is not the same thing as Bernie deciding to control the party.

Third, even controlling the direction of the party is not the same thing as controlling the party. The direction that the party moves in (the goals) are not the same thing as managing the day-to-day administration of the party.

I admire your humility. You may not want to decide who the DNC chair is or control the direction of the party, but I have a hunch that you are in the minority on that level of humility. Just a hunch.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #163)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:20 AM

186. Let me ask you this, Who did CNN ask to debate Ted Cruz about healthcare.

 

Care to mention anyone else who could do a better job that is as well known?

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #186)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:38 AM

189. How are TV ratings

Relevant to this discussion or to the Chair of the DNC?

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #186)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:23 AM

209. That's just political popcorn. It means nothing.

Ted Cruz is probably the most hated Senator in the Senate.

And that's a BIPARTISAN view.

It's a contest between two quirky outliers. No one will watch it. Why? Because it doesn't matter what they think. They have no real power.

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Response to MADem (Reply #209)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 04:45 AM

215. Bingo

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #159)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:45 AM

236. Quite different with GOP.

He is not merely suggesting...he is being critical of the Democratic Party. And I love Joe Biden.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #151)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:55 PM

268. What, exactly, is wrong with wanting to decide who holds the chair?

We ALL do. Where is the rule that says we are not to voice our opinion? Are senators and representatives supposed to have kept their opinions to themselves if their opinion would have "shaken up a race that has, until now, featured few fireworks"?

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:36 PM

169. Only members of the party are allowed to run for chair.

Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:11 AM - Edit history (1)

And based on Sanders's failure to deliver his voting bloc on election day, I doubt that many Democrats would have any confidence in his ability to designate an effective chair.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #169)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:05 AM

177. You might be right.

 

But I have a hunch that more people are listening to what Bernie has to say since the election than before the election.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #177)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 03:57 PM

272. I have a hunch you'd be wrong. As the previous poster said, he couldn't even deliver his own

supporters. Why should the Party have to tolerate someone who has proven to be a disrupter and wants to run the Party, but doesn't want to join the Party? Joining a Party requires a commitment that puts putting the good of the Party over self. No one wants to relive the 2016 campaign, but people should decide; either they are IN or they are OUT. Once we know who's who, we can work on rebuilding relationships within the Party, and choosing who we want to LEAD the Party.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #169)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:54 PM

278. Great point.

I will never forget him sitting there red-faced and angry at the convention.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:04 AM

176. Most Dems would likely disagree with that.

It rubs a lot of Dems the wrong way that someone who refuses to join their party wants to either run the party or be a major player in it. That IMHO was Bernie's major problem in running for the nomination. Party delegates are career Dems.

He did very little to help the party during his run. Wasn't that interested in making contributions to other candidates, as Clinton did. That all worked against him. This overall lack of commitment is a major issue for many Dems. It is an issue for me.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #176)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:22 AM

181. Bernie puts positions on issues before party.

 

It doesn't bother me that he didn't want to join the Democratic party. If he disagreed with the direction the party was headed in, he was just fine as an independent. The party needs to change it's direction and it's tactics. It took a guy like Bernie to bring that to the attention of the party. IMO it helped the party despite the election.

If you look at the places where Bernie did the best on the electoral map, those are the places that Trump won. Maybe it was because the Bernie voters didn't show up for Hillary. Or Maybe it was because Hillary never stood a chance in those places. Either way, Bernie exposed part of the country that mainstream Democrats weren't reaching very well. Now we have our work cut out.

For me, it's all about the positions on issues and the message regardless of party. I'm a loyal Democrat. But I find myself voting "against" more than I'm voting "for" these days. We need to change the party direction. And Bernie (IMO) has the better positions on issues.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #181)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:29 AM

182. Let's agree to disagree.

The party certainly needs some reform in terms of its positions. For victories in the 2018 midterm elections, we will need a truly united and energized party. That's not going to happen if Bernie continues to criticize party members and attempt to gain control without joining the party.

That won't sit well with Dems who do a lot of the organizing and hard grunt work. Anyone who tries to control the direction of the party but will not join the party, will not be successful. Two many Dems won't accept it.

It is galling to too many that a guy who wants to run the party, does not see the party as worthy of his membership. It's certainly galling to me.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #182)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:00 AM

184. Agreeing to disagree, but not sure if we are disagreeing on the same things.

 

I agree that Bernie should join the party.

I agree that it doesn't sit well with hard-working loyal democrats that Bernie has an opinion about the direction of the party without being a member of the party. But it doesn't bother me. If we want to attract people who are outside of the Democratic party (or barely in it), we should want to know their opinion about the direction that the party is headed in. I'm just thankful that they have enough interest in the party to have an opinion regarding it's direction. That's my opinion.

And Bernie might be joining it when he gets the next chance, so this all might be moot.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #184)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:56 AM

197. He won't be joining it. He's already said so. Unless you think he'll go back on his word.

http://people.com/celebrity/bernie-sanders-leaves-democratic-party-to-return-to-independent-in-senate/

According to the Wall Street Journal, the Vermont senator announced he will be leaving the Democratic Party when he returns to work in the U.S. Senate this week.

“I was elected as an independent; I ll stay two years more as an independent,” Sanders, 74, said at the Bloomberg Politics breakfast on Tuesday.

As an elected official in Congress, Sanders caucused with the Democrats, but considers himself an independent due to his far-left-leaning views.

When asked if Sanders considers himself a Democrat or an independent after the event, a campaign aide stated, “He ran for president as a Democrat but was elected to a six-year term in the Senate as an independent.”

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Response to MADem (Reply #197)


Response to MADem (Reply #197)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:09 AM

203. Not yet, or not at all?

 

I heard him say something similar last week. It may have been the same report, but I can't remember. The way I interpreted what he said, he was saying not yet. And I thought he said it had something to do with the laws in Vermont.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #203)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:20 AM

207. Never. That's how he's played it to this point, anyway.

A not-insignificant portion of his support comes from Vermonters who LIKE voting for an "independent."

He may be "primaried" by a Democrat in 2018, which could be problematic for him. And if one jumps in, there may be more that show interest--VT only has three seats, one rep and two senators, in DC. If there's a real contest with good debate in the Dem primary, that could become an interesting race.

The Dems usually endorsed him as "their" candidate and essentially waved off anyone interested in jumping in, but this time they may not be so pushy. If a Democrat runs against him, the party can't and won't endorse him. It could force him into the fold, or force him to bet he can win a war on two fronts.

I've heard rumors he might try to Ralph Nader it in 2020 (big mistake) and I've also heard retirement rumors in 2018. I can't speak to the veracity of these speculations, though. So who knows, really?

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #184)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:41 PM

260. Point well made and taken. nt

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 08:14 AM

229. +1!!! THIS

Bernie and many of us have the right to disagree with the direction of the Party. I like Joe Biden and so does Bernie, but we can disagree with him! The direction of the Party has been a losing one. If you do what you have always done, you will get what you always got. Many Progressives and Independents are tired of Republican light. Corporate money is not the answer, the quid pro quo's are ruining the country and our Party.

This idea that Bernie must be a registered Democrat to have an opinion is pure BS. He doesn't join the Party because then it is tougher to criticize. He ran as a Democrat to avoid then third party division that would guarantee a republican victory, something he did with the blessing of the Democrat Party for the same reason.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #229)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:52 PM

264. I support Tom Perez and so I am glad that Sanders is making these comments

Bernie is going to hurt Ellison. I do not want a Sanders supporter to lead the DNC

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:50 PM

262. Sanders wants to control the party but not be a part of the party

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #262)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 11:42 PM

292. I know! Right? I mean, seriously now ... WTF?!

Back in my day, when a couple could only "partially commit" but didn't want to marry, we'd say they were "shacking-up". They enjoyed many of the benefits of marriage and living together, but none of the actual commitment and promise of working long term. Basically, either party could just bail-out whenever they wanted with very little impediment or obstacle preventing a hasty decision. So, in spite of any perceived benefit, the danger was that either party could leave the other high-and-dry on whatever whim suited them at the moment.

Kinda hard to develop a trusting relationship when you're only "committing" for the superficial bits.

I, for example, changed career paths to follow my husband's career ... but I'd have NEVER given that much control of my life and my future to some guy who just came along and that I enjoyed "shacking-up" with. Who in their right mind would do such a thing. That's too much of a sacrifice without much benefit in return.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:53 PM

319. I wonder why nobody ever says stuff like this to Republicans.

 

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #148)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 04:07 PM

327. By that logic

Ellison and any others that are currently in office should not run for the Chair position. I believe that was a major fault for Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

There are conflicts when they hold both positions. Personally, Ellison would serve the party best by remaining at his current position. Maybe consider some time in the future to be a Senator. When Al Franken leaves. I hope though too that Franken stays as long as possible as Senator.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #120)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:14 AM

179. Keyword "almost." And he had certainly ran against Democratic candidates in Vermont

though I don't know how recently.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #120)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:44 AM

235. It matters.

It sends a message that the Democratic Party is not good enough for Bernie. It would help unify if he became a Democrat...and if he won't then he should stop trying to run the party.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #235)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:11 PM

287. Unity, or Uniformity?

 

It sounds like you are calling for the latter.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #287)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 10:21 AM

300. I don't care what you call it...

We need to beat Trump and making demands and trying to dismantle the Democratic Party and build a new one based on purity and purges will not help us in the long run...we have an emergency on our hands. And a big tent means tolerance for all...so you will never have it all your way ...no one will... and if your think ruining our election chances with three 80 + year old SCOTUS justices then we will have to agree to disagree. We barely lost and if there is such a fever for taking money out of politics and breaking up the banks etc, why are there no protests against Trump's economic policies? Bernie had a good idea (not breaking up the banks though regulating them would be best) but it is not enough. You must remember that such promises did not help him win the primary...We have to face the fact that we are a center left country at this moment and deal with reality. I don't give a damn who becomes DNC chair as long as they have no baggage that will interfere with electing our people and have a realistic plan to win. Ellison has baggage. He made immoderate remarks about Israel and he wants to push long time Democratic donors out of the party thus starving our candidates and allowing the GOP easy victories...we could lose Sherrod Brown under that scenario. The Koch brothers will put 100 million or more in the Ohio Senate race. We must fight fire with fire. So while I like Ellison, he is not the right man for the job. We must win 18 and 20. With Trump acting like a buffoon, we should not squander the opportunity to take back governorship's, state Houses and the the US House.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #300)


Response to Name removed (Reply #306)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:02 PM

310. Right well we would not want to consider an plan that has netted

the GOP all branches of the federal government and 38 states....I think lockstep would be just fine. We need to win...the outside will never have the loyalty to the Democratic Party that would allow us to win. Thus we must walk away from those who refuse to join the party and focus on creating new Democrats who are willing to be big tent and want to win.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #310)


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:43 AM

234. Imagine what if it would have meant in terms of unity had Bernie

become a Democrat. Please no more Bernie. Isn't it bad enough we have Trump...lets all try to win the midterm and the presidential election coming. Ellison is not a good choice as he has baggage that would damage us with a with a long time ally-Jewish voters...Jewish organizations have already come out against Ellison who is a good guy but not the right guy for the job. Please. Bernie stay out of it...you are not a Democrat. Time to fight Trump...not the Democratic Party.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #38)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:52 PM

324. I agree. I checked the Senate page and he is still listed as an Independent.

Nothing on his own Senate page indicating he is a Democrat either.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:50 PM

263. I support Tom Perez and so I am glad that Sanders is making these comments

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:44 PM

2. What's the swipe?

Did the Democratic Party win the 2016 Presidential Election? No, so it was a failed status quo. I'm glad Sanders is still telling the truth out there.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:57 PM

12. I agree totally

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:11 PM

21. They didn't win because of Comey's last minute letter bombs. And Sanders is deluding himself

if he doesn't think there would have been plenty of material for the RNC/Putin/Trump axis to use against HIM.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:23 PM

28. BS!

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:05 PM

70. That isn't even the issue

Perez wasn't on the ticket. To assail him as the "status quo" makes no sense, particularly since his candidacy for DNC chair is focusing on combatting voter disenfranchisement.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:32 PM

95. Thank you for reminding us of the FACTS ...

... we need more of those rather than the alternative.

Personally, I think Sanders' comments are destructive, divisive and do little to help the party or to move things forward. For the life of me, I'm having difficulty in determining what his motive may be in his recent statements.

Hello Alerter: I'm obviously referring to the recent things that Sanders has done and said in 2017. Being befuddled by his statements and his intent is not against the rules.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:25 PM

122. The GOP had a lot waiting for Sanders and O'Malley--possibly including a bogus FBI investigation.

eom

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:29 PM

126. That was only one of many factors.

 

The list of why the Democrats lost is long. Not one factor was enough to cause the loss. But all the factors combined caused the loss. The Democrats need to develop a message that's appealing enough and durable enough to overcome dirty tricks like the Comey letter.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #126)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:40 PM

135. Exactly

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #126)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:59 PM

150. And the list would have been long no matter who our candidate was

because the RNC plays dirty and Putin wanted to help DT.

Hillary was 9-11 points ahead in the polls before Comey dropped the first bomb, and the US is more split along party lines than ever. There's no way BS would have done better.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #126)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:28 PM

165. If no one single factor was responsible for the loss, then Sanders

et alia shouldn't be blaming the loss on one single factor.

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Response to billfmsd (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:49 PM

322. simplistic commercial branding for the lowest common denominator.

"The Democrats need to develop a message that's appealing enough and durable enough..."

I.e., simplistic commercial branding for the lowest common denominator. Because there are simply not enough bumper stickers to date.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:57 PM

174. True. Comey cancelled out the damage done to Trump by the Acccess Holywood tape release

Before either of those things happened Trump was surging. Hilary was given a gift and then Trump was given a gift. What would have happened if Comey had stayed quiet but that tape about pussy grabbing also never saw the light of day and therefor would not have dominated the news cycle with a solid week of bad press for Trump?

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #174)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:52 AM

183. The Trump tape was real. The Comey letter was a smoke bomb

intended to deceive. They had had the laptop for weeks and they knew already from the meta data that the emails were duplicates.

It is also false that the DT was "surging" before the pussy tape.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #183)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:11 AM

232. Hillary respects the Constitutuion, Trump doesn't . She is highly qualified, he not at all etc.

I wasn't suggesting substantive equivalence in those campaign altering moments either, just in how they altered campaign momentum. The election shouldn't have been close. We need to figure out how to handily put away an opponent like Trump knowing full well that unsavory forces support him.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:08 AM

241. That talking point is old. The Clinton camp is blaming Obama now.

Just when it appears that there is no one else left to blame, they come up with a new scapegoat. As of a couple of days ago, the new scapegoat was Obama. It may have changed since then, tho.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #241)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:39 PM

266. I've heard that talking point a few times this week.

Does anyone have an actual source or is this Beltway gossip? I'm a little suspicious of talking points disseminated with the goal of dividing Democrats.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #269)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 03:44 PM

271. That's what you're talking about? Rumors and gossip?

And these rumors are inextricably tied with the Comey letter bomb, since the Russians had been working all along to leak info about the FBI and Hillary. Let's assume the rumors that Hillary is upset with the Obama administration are true.

I think the Obama administration should have ordered James Comey not to go public; or else immediately announced that same day (or at most, a day later) that the meta data had already showed the emails were duplicates (it would have taken a few hours for a computer to figure that out.) They let it drag out for 8 more days, while voting was going on, and that was a terrible mistake.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #269)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:05 PM

280. "Numerous anguished clitonites"? That's Mike Allen's "source"?

Clickbait for his new website.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #241)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 03:35 PM

270. I don't care what the "Clinton camp" is saying (according to you).

The poll aggregators have come to the same conclusion: regardless of what else may or may not have happened, James Comey's letter bombs turned the undecided voters against her in the last week of the campaign.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:49 AM

296. Was Bernie under investigation by the FBI?

 


If not then you can't really equate the two.


We lost because some people thought the email investigation would not be a problem. They were wrong.



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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #296)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:30 AM

299. How would we know? There was that Ponzi scheme related to EB-5 visas in Vermont.

Bernie supported the EB-5 visas. He wouldn't have had to be guilty of anything -- all they would have had to do is let it be known that they were checking it out. Hillary wasn't guilty of anything but they were able to smear her. They could have done the same to Bernie.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2016/04/14/how-an-alleged-ski-resort-ponzi-scheme-exploited-a-growth-plan-once-championed-by-bernie-sanders/#57b49126b172

“The most popular sport in America is complaining about the federal government. What you are seeing here is a marriage and partnership between private business and federal, state and local government.” Those were Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’ words in October 2012 when it came to a once-glittering economic development plan to revive the northeast part of his state.

A bi-partisan partnership between private business and federal, state and local government to be sure, but also allegedly a sophisticated multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme, according to a 52-count complaint unsealed Thursday by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The alleged Ponzi scheme ties an EB-5 investor program championed by Jay Peak Ski Resort, a popular 78-trail mountain in Vermont’s Northeast Kingdom, which raised over $350 million from foreign investors to expand its facilities and create local jobs. The EB-5 program, supported by the State of Vermont and both of its Senators, Bernie Sanders and Patrick Leahy, offered foreigners the opportunity to invest between $500,000 to $1 million in developments that projected returns of 2% to 6% and a pathway to U.S. citizenship within two years.

Now, however, the SEC says more than $200 million was misappropriated by the owners of Jay Peak, Ariel Quiros and William Stenger, in a Ponzi-like fashion.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:21 PM

27. Agreed

Well said. 👌

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:28 PM

32. Exactly.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:36 PM

40. Biden wasn't on the ticket

 

And if the status quo failed so badly, what does that make the Sanders group given he lost the primaries to the "status quo"?

Also it takes some serious hubris to say nominating the first woman on a major party ticket is maintaining the status quo. Sometimes Sanders says some really stupid things because he can't get his head out of his very narrow single-track world view.

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Response to mythology (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:41 PM

137. Ditto on it all

Adding if it had been Biden v Sanders - the result would have been the same. Sam Dees wouldn't have been the nominee.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:55 PM

60. Did Russia hack the election? Shit kicking is useless with non LIVs

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:00 PM

66. Trump destroyed the status quo

So if that is your and Bernie's sole concern, it's already been accomplished. The problem with contentless buzzwords like status quo and change is they say nothing. Bernie doesn't say why he's unhappy with Perez as a candidate. What is it about civil rights advocacy and working to stop voter disenfranchisement is so unacceptable to him? That is what Perez is running on after all. The only thing I can figure that Bernie is upset about is that Perez isn't his choice.

Meanwhile, Ellison is running on a message of party unity, which Bernie just undermined, and not for the first time. Bernie seems determined to ensure Ellison's candidacy meets the same fate as his own.


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Response to BainsBane (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:36 AM

188. ++++++++

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:09 AM

202. I reread his comments and checked myself to see if my initial impression was an overreaction..

"Joe Biden is a friend of mine and I have a lot of respect for Tom Perez. In terms of the next chair of the DNC, however, the question is simple: Do we stay with a failed status-quo approach or do we go forward with a fundamental restructuring of the Democratic Party?" Sanders said in a statement. I say we go forward and create a grassroots party which speaks for working people and is prepared to stand up to the top 1 percent. That’s why we have to support Keith Ellison."

Which means Perez is not for working people, neither will Perez "stand up to the top 1 percent" (of course , Sanders is the only one who can judge whether someone is standing up to the top 1% sufficiently enough) I can't see how this isn't divisive.

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Response to JHan (Reply #202)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 08:25 PM

314. Why does he say "we" when he's not actually a part?

Why does he say "we" when he's not actually a part?

He uses the pronoun "we" quite a bit in that excerpt. Except he's talking about a group of which he's chosen not to be a part?

Sure the blurb sounds worse if he, more accurately, said "they" when referring to the DNC, of which he has chosen not to be a part, but at least that would be true? I's not a "we" if you're not part of the group, right?

Like this:

"Joe Biden is a friend of mine and I have a lot of respect for Tom Perez. In terms of the next chair of the DNC, however, the question is simple: Do they stay with a failed status-quo approach or do they go forward with a fundamental restructuring of the Democratic Party?" Sanders said in a statement. I say they go forward and create a grassroots party which speaks for working people and is prepared to stand up to the top 1 percent. That’s why they have to support Keith Ellison."

(Bold parts were the changes from the original.)

You go Bernie. Mansplain this whole party election to us.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:02 PM

67. 👆 This.

The DNC has failed consistently for almost a decade now. The number of legislator and governor seats lost across the nation in the last few election cycles is proof of that. The DNC needs a refocus of priorities from the top down. IMO Keith Ellison is a good candidate to achieve that.

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Response to Snackshack (Reply #67)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:29 PM

281. No The DNC needs a refocus of priorities from the BOTTOM up. The top down shit is what

is failing

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #281)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 08:37 PM

283. It's the top...

DNC chair / executives that decide where resources are sent to help advance Dem candidates.

Over the last 8 yrs or so those decisions have been fatal to Democrats.

From Politico-

"Democrats during Obama’s presidency have lost 11 governorships, 13 U.S. Senate seats, 69 House seats, and 913 state legislative seats and 30 state legislative chambers."



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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:04 PM

69. +1

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:08 PM

75. The point is the people voting consider it a swipe

Remember the admonition not to blame the electorate? Why does that only apply to Republican voters and not Democrats?

From the Hill article in the OP.
We lost an election and all of a sudden we’re all a part of a failed status quo? When he puts Joe Biden and Tom Perez in this category and paints with a broad brush he insults all of us. This is an election between loyal, qualified Democrats who love our party and the country. There’s no need for him to lower himself to that level.”


Bernie would do well to start taking his own advice.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:04 PM

112. People voting consider it a swipe? Not true -- a lot of us voted and don't

consider it a swipe.

Also not true: The Hill OP did not say that; that quote is by a Perez supporter. Bernie's statement did not insult us all -- only those who for some unfathomable reason are insulted by him pointing out the fact that the Party failed again and has been failing for 6+ years -- which might conceivably be a lot longer were it not for Obama.

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Response to KPN (Reply #112)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:11 PM

115. Voting for DNC chair

This is about an election for DNC chair. The people like that one in the article you think doesn't matter are the electorate in question.

There is no dispute about the fact the Democratic Party has lost a great deal of ground. The question is about how to change that. Bernie's answer is the same as it was at the height of Democratic power, the same as it's always been. It has nothing to do with the circumstances or data from this past election.

Only Ellison's message isn't the same as Bernie's, probably because Ellison actually knows what a DNC chair does, so he focuses on organizational issues and party unity. Messaging is what candidates do.

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:12 PM

81. I agree with Sanders as well.nt

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:43 PM

97. Yup. Not a swipe, but a "perceived swipe" on the part those who refuse to recognize

that millions of Democrats and ex-Democrats share Bernie's view on this, who refuse to recognize that the Party continues to consistently lose ground against a party that essentially is a joke. Time for new blood and a backbone.

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Response to KPN (Reply #97)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:59 PM

107. Millions of Democrats

Don't want a party chair who focuses on fighting voter disenfranchisement? That is what Perez has said will be his primary focus, in addition to building up state parties. You'll have to explain to me what is so objectionable about that.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #107)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:16 PM

117. Oh, so Ellison won't do that?

I just prefer Ellison over Perez. Perez has primarily been an appointee, an administrator/technocrat. He has risen primarily within the party. Ellison not so much. I just think Ellison is the stronger voice.

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Response to KPN (Reply #117)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:29 PM

125. Bernie and you insisted Perez was the status quo

I pointed out what his background was and what he is basing his run for DNC chair on. I asked how that is status quo.
Now you tell me that a career working to protect voting rights and workers rights makes someone a "technocrat."

DNC chair is an administrative, organization position. Whatever you mean by "a stronger voice" has little bearing on the position. The party chair doesn't control messaging.

I think it's pretty obvious you prefer Ellison because Bernie does.

I myself don't have a position on the chair race. I can't vote on it, and I haven't listened to all the candidates make their case. I don't like that it's become embroiled in a fight over a long ago settled primary. If there is to be a debate, let it be about what the actual challenges confronting the DNC chair are, not slogans from a past primary.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #125)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:46 PM

261. So why are you pushing Perez if you don't have a position on

the chair race as you say? Slogans from the past primary?

I prefer Ellison because he has been all about labor and workers rights and has actually won numerous campaigns at a relatively high level compared to Perez, not to mention that he single-handedly turned his Congressional District into one of the highest voter turnout District's in his State -- a district that formerly had one of the lowest. He's been a "grassroots" dynamo and knows how to energize voters to turn out.

Yes, I do give credence to Bernie's view about who is the best candidate. Why wouldn't I when I think highly of Bernie, his career, principles and goals? Nothing wrong with that.

Listen, I am over the "establishment". Perez is the establishment. It's that simple. It's time the Party turned that page.

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Response to KPN (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 04:44 PM

328. Yep. It's not a swipe.

The usual players in the party are acting like soccer players pretending to be injured.

This is the equivalent of the chair throwing BS. Feign injury and roll around on the ground screaming bloody murder over ... nothing.

The framing of this article is click bait bull shit.



Some supporters of Ellison, like DNC vice chairman R.T. Rybak, another voting member, believe the controversy is being blown out of proportion.

“From the beginning people have tried to project a proxy fight onto what is, in reality, a pretty tame tactical discussion about how Democrats organize,” Rybak said. “It’s not as sexy as a narrative about Bernie-Hillary revenge, but the reality is we’re looking forward, not back.”

And Jeri Shepherd, a voting DNC member from Colorado who backs Ellison, noted that Sanders said in his statement that he considers Biden a friend has “a lot of respect” for Tom Perez.

She argued that those who took offense to Sanders’s remark are themselves looking for any reason to reignite the Sanders-Clinton debate.

“Bernie is not one to make personal attacks. That’s not his style,” Shepherd said. “The irony is that many of us aren’t interested in rehashing the primary, but there are some who are and who still see Bernie supporters as interlopers into the party. They’ll feel how they want to feel, but I don’t think it’s productive to read too much into what he said.”


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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:41 PM

136. Why doesn't Bernie become a Democrat? Keith Ellison, and Tom Perez are Democrats

It is a similar mindset to those that believe Democrats should have open primaries.

If someone wants a say who should be a candidate in the Democratic party then become a Democrat, and register as a Democrat

What does the fact that someone doesn't want to be identified as a Democrat say?

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)


Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:32 PM

167. +1000000!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:44 PM

3. Maybe sometimes it's better to not be so vocal. I do not want to hear opposition against the

 

party right now...not in public. The only other thing that bothers me about this is excuse me but Bernie is and Independent....why is he even weighing in on who "he wants". He's not even in the party! He needs to change his party then.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:54 PM

8. We need a common front. There is more that unites us than divides us.

In the movie Glory the border state Union soldiers were every bit as racist as the Rebs but they shared with the Union a desire to keep the nation together.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:57 PM

13. I think that movie was Denzel Washington's best performance

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:00 PM

17. Drumpf's black friends remind me of the soldier Denzel's character called snowflake.

However that gentleman's heart was in the right place and he really had the interest of his fellow African Americans at heart.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:32 PM

129. Schumer invited him into Democratic Leadership. This is Bernie leading.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:07 PM

275. Unity for the sake of unity is bullshit.

Without correcting the issues, and continuing to rely on the status quo means the Democratic Party will continue to lose.

I will not be in lockstep with anyone or anything. When they are wrong, individually or collectively, we should point it out and force them to correct it. Phone calls, letters, emails, do work. Pressure works.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:45 PM

4. The only one who is trying to divide and conquer is you. Unrec. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:10 PM

19. Indeed...

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:11 PM

20. +1

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:56 PM

61. Amen. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:48 PM

99. This!

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:42 PM

138. Agree. So sick of seeing this stuff and I voted for Hillary enthusiastically a month early. nt

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:39 PM

267. Indeed.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:09 PM

286. Because this is the first unhelpful comment by Sanders? ..... the answer is no

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:46 PM

5. Keep fighting that primary!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:48 PM

6. Why should Sanders have ANY say about the DNC Chair?

He's not a Democrat. He was one (sorta) very briefly because the DNC allowed him to run as a Democrat in the primary, but after the primary he immediately reverted to Independent. He of course had a right to do that, but he DOESN'T have a right to interfere with the Democratic Party.

As for his attacks on good Democrats, all I can say is it's to be expected from him.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:25 PM

30. k

In his very first year in the House, he(Bernie) co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He led this group for its first eight years. Its primary devotion is to advance liberal causes and is currently the largest organization within the Democratic congressional caucus.

The CPC was established in 1991 by six members of the United States House of Representatives: U.S. Representatives Ron Dellums (D-CA), Lane Evans (D-IL), Thomas Andrews (D-ME), Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Maxine Waters (D-CA), and Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:40 PM

47. That doesn't address her question

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:53 PM

102. Thems the facts!!

Seems like we've got some kind of *.phobia going with Bernie. Hard to understand why people see "attack" and "ego-mania" in just about everything Bernie says. I admire the guy -- he has principles, sticks by them and doesn't play games or mince words. He's a leader.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:10 AM

204. k

(See, I can do that too! Easy)

Yes, he's caucused with the Democrats...sometimes. Fine. But as he himself has said, over and over, he is not a Democrat and has no intentions of being one. Again, that's his right. It STILL doesn't give him a right to dictate to real Democrats who should be the DNC chair, or any other official in the Democratic party. THAT'S the issue; not how much good he may or may not have done. He definitely has a mixed record in Congress.

:courgh: Sessions :cough:

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:38 PM

258. Then he should be a Democrat...from what I see...

he is criticizing the Democratic Party ...trying to force someone on us that I do not believe will help us win elections. Keith is a good guy but has already alienated a key Democratic constituency and wants to 'get money' out of elections...which would be fine if the GOP did it too...but we have to win and being starved of cash will not help out people get elected in mid-term elections where personal giving is often not strong... the focus should be on winning not starving our people financially...Keith is a good buy but not is not the man for the job.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:10 PM

114. Though he's voted Democrat more often than ANY Democrat throughout his Congressional career..

Think about that! Beat him up for having principles -- exactly why he maintained his independence rather than be beholden to the Party. Geesh!

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:50 AM

297. Because of the millions of Democrats who voted for him and donated to him.

 


He is good for the party.



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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:49 PM

7. This seems a bit of a reach

Yes, Sen. Sanders is backing Rep. Ellison, and Vice President Biden is in favor of Secretary Perez. Sanders stated, as part of his rationale for supporting Ellison, a desire for a change in approach. That's hardly a "swipe" at Biden or Perez, since there's nothing quoted from Sanders that specifically names either of them.

Sounds like The Hill is trying to gin up a controversy where none really exists. The whole article reads like, "Let's you and him fight."

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:55 PM

9. Bernie, commit to the party. Don't just become a Dem to run for president then leave again


and throw stones at us.

Try this: I am Bernie Sanders, a proud committed Democrat and I believe I can make our party stronger.

Then list the ways you intend to make us stronger.

Remember-we won the American vote, but we lost the Russian vote-because our candidate was committed to democracy around the world and didn't shut up and play nice with a ballot-box stuffing authoritarian ruler.

Does that make us a failed status-quo?





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Response to delisen (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:36 PM

42. Bingo. Want to run the Democrat Party? Join the Democratic Party. nt

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Response to delisen (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 02:35 AM

294. He didn't just "leave again". Bernie had always said that if he should lose his Presidential bid,

he would return to the Senate as an independent because that was what the people of Vermont had voted for.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:56 PM

10. Sanders isn't the one picking at scabs. This is much ado about nothing.

Sanders unedited statement:

"Joe Biden is a friend of mine and I have a lot of respect for Tom Perez. In terms of the next chair of the DNC, however, the question is simple: Do we stay with a failed status-quo approach or do we go forward with a fundamental restructuring of the Democratic Party? I say we go forward and create a grassroots party which speaks for working people and is prepared to stand up to the top 1 percent. That's why we have to support Keith Ellison."

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Response to DLevine (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:17 PM

22. Boy, reading the entire comment

 

Sure makes it seem like the OP is nothing but more re-fighting the primary AGAIN

Say it ain't so.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:18 PM

24. Yup. nt

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:24 PM

29. Is Bernie Off Limits?

 

New RULES...no one can ever post another article about Bernard Sanders latest artful smear against the Democratic party and it's leaders.




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Response to otohara (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:26 PM

31. Where did he smear the Democratic party? nt

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Response to otohara (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:28 PM

33. Apparently for SOME

 

It's the TRUTH that is off limits.

Hold it a sec . . . my phone's ringing . . . ""Who's there . . . what did you say . . . the 1.4 million member Teamsters Union just endorsed Ellison?"

Sorry, gotta go,

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:31 PM

36. I Doubt Anyone From Team Tom

 

will take a swipe at the teamsters.

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Response to otohara (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:42 PM

49. Try this on for size

 

THE TRUTH

When the whole statement is read, it's not a :swipe" at anyone. It's a call for a new direction.

Your insistence at using the pejorative "swipe" is not but one more of the dishonest attacks being used to attack the new base of the party.

We are the party of the black, the brown, the gay, the poor, the worker, the non-Christian, the women seeking freedom and all the other oppressed and we are the party of the less oppressed but decent people who stand with us. We owe them COURAGE.

We owe the middle of the road NOTHING

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:41 AM

190. So the truth is the truth according to Bernie Sanders...

the implication is Perez is a waste and has no meaningful contribution to make to the Democratic party as DNC chair, how is that not a smear when Sanders doesn't even specify exactly what his objections to Perez are? ...

Note as well that Democrats who endorsed Ellison haven't crapped on Perez.

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Response to JHan (Reply #190)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:01 AM

239. That's garbage and you know it.

 

The TRUTH are Sander's words written down in black and white at least twice already in this string. It ISN'T you or the OP labeling them a slime or saying they "imply" something else. In the REAL words, the phrases "Perez is a waste and has no meaningful contribution to make to the Democratic party" appear NOWHERE.

As for "Note as well that Democrats who endorsed Ellison haven't crapped on Perez," NEITHER HAS BERNIE. However, every single one of them has said EXACTLY what Bernie said which is that Ellison represents a new direction.

The ONLY reason that the OP and fellow travelers are attacking THIS time it is being said is because it was said by Bernie and Ellison haters want to use anti-Bernie sentiment to block a DNC chair candidate backed by people they CAN'T attack like John Lewis.

As for your "Perez supporters aren't saying this stuff" there happens to be one DU member prominently attacking Bernie on this string who has said flat out that they will leave the party if Ellison wins.

Perez is a great guy, but the tactics being used against Ellison by Perez supporters on DU are disturbingly familiar.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #239)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:38 AM

244. I will question any person - whether Rep /Dem/Ind - who comes with that kind of smear..

... against a hard working Democrat....Whether it's Bernie or anyone else.

I don't even know what "new direction" Means. Did you follow the DNC chair debate? Apparently there was no fire and brimstone. None of the things that were so contentious were really discussed AFAIK , i.e. - caucuses and super delegates. So it seems as though Ellison is quite fine with "Status quo" of the DNC as is, BOTH Perez and Ellison agree on a grassroots approach so what exactly is the problem?

EDIT: Or are we going to just throw words around like "Status quo" and words akin to "elitist" because it's sexy to do so even though those words have no meaning and we can't be bothered to investigate what is what - that is what a smear is, when you lodge a criticism with no substance and no meaning.

I've no time for it.

And by "Democrats" I meant leaders of party - like John Lewis and Schumer and Warren et al, who endorsed Ellison.

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Response to JHan (Reply #244)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 11:13 AM

245. Bernie said EXACTLY

 

What Lewis, the Teamsters and other "acceptable" Ellison supporters said and NO ONE called it a "smear."

Now it's a "smear?"

Hmmmm?

Do you want a definition of "new direction?" Let me repeat what I posted earlier (slightly edited):

We should be the party of the black, the brown, the gay, the poor, the worker, the non-Christian, the women seeking freedom and all the other oppressed and we are the party of the less oppressed but decent people who stand with us. We owe them COURAGE.

We owe the white suburbanites we've targeted for more than 30 years with "welfare reform," "crime bills," "wars on terror," "capital punishment," etc. only to have them turn around and vote en masse INCLUDING WOMEN for the greatest threat to freedom we have seen in our lifetimes . . . we owe them . . . NOTHING

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #245)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 11:19 AM

246. And Perez is for all the things that you mentioned AFAIK,

In fact that is the position of the Democratic Party today, we are now *supportive of gay rights, we want Criminal Justice Reform, and we want to expand the social safety net - that is the reality of the future. So it seems as though we're scuffing up non-issues to pick a fight with each other which is not only frustrating, but also incredibly dumb.

Under all the flowery language Sanders used to claim Biden is his friend, "status quo" and "failed" have meaning. And if Perez wins, what will be the response from the Sanders? Disappointment or support?

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Response to JHan (Reply #246)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 11:56 AM

247. Well that was disturbingly disarming

 

If we become the party of our platform, I could care less who leads the DNC (well, as long as they fight down ballot all the way across the country).

Perez is a great guy (and was even a better guy before he was cast the number one choice - albeit not chosen enough to get the VP slot - of the current party leadership).

We aren't an inch apart on who should lead, we are much farther apart on "how" they should get there. As long as Perez supporters use Bernie hatred as a substitute for making the case for Tom, I will speak out.

As for your final question . . . I will speak for myself . . . it will be 100% support.

Will it be the same for Perez supporters if Ellison wins or will they, as least a half dozen of them - including one of the most prolific posters in this string - have threatened to do . . . leave the party entirely?

Loyalty is a two-way street.

I guess the good news is that at least you and I will still be here.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #247)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:10 PM

248. I love Ellison - I haven't agreed with him on everything but he's a stand up guy..

( and I say that as a strong HRC supporter )

I never rake over the coals nonsense candidates say in the past, especially if they are contrite now and have shown they've learned from their mistakes. We have to be careful not to dehumanize Politicians, which we're far too fond of doing.

But I also like Perez, I agree with him on many many things. I share his mindset on several issues.

I'm also impressed with Jehmu Greene and Buttigieg. We have a great line up. Which is why the smears get to me - it's not like our people suck. We have hard working Democrats out there getting no love or support because of some arbitrary purity standard. I also keep in mind what the DNC chairman has to be: agile and flexible in his or her strategies, with a finger on the pulse of the base and a clear eyed view of the "political terrain" . He or she has to possess the skills to raise funds for the party, recruit new members, get the right staff and assess correctly the data on hand and develop a cohesive, potent message for the party. I keep those things in mind when looking at all of them.

If Perez supporters don't support Ellison *( if he wins), they're part of the problem as well. The enemy is not the democratic party.


I guess the good news is that at least you and I will still be here
lol yes, but for real.. we need to cling to each other and give support. Dems are now the vanguards of our democracy, our constitution and our institutions.

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Response to JHan (Reply #248)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:30 PM

249. Let me repeat

 

Just in case Skinner is listening . . . lol

We need to be able to rec replies!

Thank you for your post AND this discussion.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #249)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:07 PM

256. Thank you too :)

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Response to otohara (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:32 PM

94. I'm sure this thread will get alerted. If you mention Bernie and primary in the same sentence

 

it's not good and I just did.

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Response to otohara (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:45 PM

171. Maybe the rule should be that we are allowed to criticize non-Democrats

when they attack actual Democrats.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:11 PM

78. Sanders remarks will hurt Ellison's chances

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #78)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:15 PM

84. Oh ffs.

This Bernie bashing is getting ridiculous. We pick at scabs while Twitler and the KGOP burn the country to the ground. Bernie is not the enemy. Let's pull together just for fucking once.


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Response to DLevine (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:30 PM

93. If you read the article

You'll see that comment born out in the reactions of those actually voting on chair. And it isn't bashing to note that something is not helpful to his candidate. Ellison's argument is that he can unify the party as DNC chair. Bernie's comments don't further than message.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #93)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:39 PM

96. Did you read what Bernie actually said?

His statement: "Joe Biden is a friend of mine and I have a lot of respect for Tom Perez. In terms of the next chair of the DNC, however, the question is simple: Do we stay with a failed status-quo approach or do we go forward with a fundamental restructuring of the Democratic Party? I say we go forward and create a grassroots party which speaks for working people and is prepared to stand up to the top 1 percent. That's why we have to support Keith Ellison."

Why are people getting so bent out of shape over Bernie simply giving his opinion? Nobody has to listen to him, or agree with him. He has a right to express his opinion. He did not knock Biden.

We need to stop with the Bernie hate and pull together. JMHFO.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #96)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:48 PM

98. I agree we need to pull together

I don't see how Bernie's comments further that. They also don't say anything of substance. Why has he decided Perez represents the status quo? Perez' background is as a Civil Rights attorney and head of the Civil Rights division of Justice. He wants to focus on voter disenfranchisement. Why should Bernie find that objectionable?
The only thing I can figure is that Perez isn't his personal choice.

Remember Bernie's admonition not to blame the electorate? Why does that only apply to Republican voters and not Democrats? Bernie's remarks were directed at the very people voting for DNC chair, and some of them didn't find the comments helpful.

This is from the Hill article in the OP.
We lost an election and all of a sudden we’re all a part of a failed status quo? When he puts Joe Biden and Tom Perez in this category and paints with a broad brush he insults all of us. This is an election between loyal, qualified Democrats who love our party and the country. There’s no need for him to lower himself to that level.”


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Response to BainsBane (Reply #98)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:57 PM

104. That article does not accurately describe what Bernie said.

It makes a mountain out of a molehill, and brings out all the "we hate Bernie and his stupid supporters" posts. The article itself is trying to be divisive, not Bernie's actual words. If we keep fighting each other over nothing, the KGOP wins.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #104)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:00 PM

108. That's unfortunate

and also unhelpful to Ellison

But he did refer to them as the status quo, and that is what has upset some party voters.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #108)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:51 PM

145. He actually called them part of "a failed status quo"

Which when you look at the record over the past 7 years, he's right:

https://www.google.com/search?q=democratic+losses+since+2008&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjf3cCss_XRAhXG5yYKHZxvDQEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=671#imgrc=67LsAxBtkEWGmM:

We need a fresh face and I think Ellison is just that.

You can't deny that it has been a failure since '08's victories. We were crushed in the crucial 2010 vote which led to the gerrymandering that got us here.

What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Well I guess we're plum crazy.

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Response to ybbor (Reply #145)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:58 PM

149. Perez isn't the same thing

To claim he is identical to DWS is uninformed.

That Ellison's face is fresh to you doesn't make him new. He's been in DC some ten years.

These contentless comments are disheartening. That same aimless desire for something new led people to vote for Trump. DNC chair isn't about a "fresh face." It's not a Noxzema ad. It's an organizational position. The Chair doesn't control messaging either.



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Response to DLevine (Reply #84)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:39 PM

259. Perhaps Bernie should concern himself with fighting Trump and leave the Democratic

Party alone.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:01 AM

175. I agree. In issuing a statement in response to Biden's endorsement,

Sanders stepped on Ellison's message.

"...where Ellison says the DNC needs to be fixed — "Even a good car needs a tune-up sometimes," he said last month — Sanders called for something closer to a trade-in. "I think we need a fundamental transformation of the Democratic Party," he said in December."


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/bernie-sanders-muddles-ally-s-message-dnc-race-n715651

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:05 AM

221. +1

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:57 PM

11. i agree with sanders, joe and the rest should have put

all that energy into the general election. it's time to give someone else a chance.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:09 PM

18. What an odd comment.

I assume by "someone else" you mean Independents, Paulites and anarchists.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:20 PM

25. thinking about it that might help.

dems are dying on the vine so something has to change. I'm tired of having my life put in the hands of people that are crazy as hell and will do anything to take power.

I saw a meme somewhere don't know if it was on twitter or du, but it said dems were playing a board game and the repubs flipped the board over and set the house on fire while the dems were still trying to finish the board game. i totally agree with that statement it's time to fight fire with fire, so yeah i'm tired of the old establishment and i'm ready for something new.

not hating, just need something different.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:35 PM

39. Too many "memes" in 2016, not enough facts.

That's not a comment on your statement or opinion.

More of a general feeling I have that "memes" are taken too seriously.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:19 PM

119. "All that energy"

He expressed a preference for DNC chair. He gave an opinion about who was to head his own party. Are you suggesting he has no right to do so?

Bernie has been in DC for 30 years. Ellison for about 10. Perez for about 8. No one in this discussion is new.

The idea of making way for the new thing is what gave us Donald Trump. People wanted change, and they got it.
Railing against the status quo may sound good, but without serious thought as to what replaces it, it is at best meaningless and at worst--as with Trump--completely destructive.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #119)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:46 PM

321. his preference is the same old deal. i was for hillary

but i have to admit she was the wrong person. i'm afraid that mr. perez is probably more of the same, we need something different.

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Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:58 PM

15. Bravo Bernie

 

one of our heroes. We CAN have more than one. Shame on you guys for being the dividers.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:03 PM

111. So

The guy who isn't a part of the party. The guy who attacked the candidate that could win. He guy who knew he wouldn't win the primary or the general (surely he's not so stupid that he thought otherwise). The guy who hung on for months after he was out thereby creating divisions in the party, who promised to campaign for winner and didn't, who gave up on his very good message in order to keep up the adoration, who convinced a number of simple minded people not to vote for Hillary, thus insuring a trump presidency.

This is the guy you see as a hero.

I can work with him if he wants to work for the party and to end trump, but his actions so far indicate he has no desire to work with anyone.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:58 PM

16. Nothing against Sanders

but it's none of his business unless and until he registers as a Democrat.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:17 PM

23. I support Ellison, too, but Sanders didn't need to

call either Biden, or Perez "status quo".

Perez is an outstanding Democrat, and Biden is, too. I would never consider them a part of the DLC-type world. Thinking about the DLC makes me want to vomit.


I started to read the comments from the above link. It just plain disgusted me.

Ellison, or Perez is okay with me. Never again should we have a DWS, or even Donna Brazille.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:20 PM

26. This continuation of a primary fight reminds me of the Confederate types who

are still fighting your civil war.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:30 PM

34. Join the party if you want a voice, Bernie.

The DNC is a party organization. Period.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:38 PM

44. Bingo.

You can't expect Democrats to agree to be led by someone who refuses to become a Democrat.

I am not an Independent. I will not be led by an Independent.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:44 PM

51. Curious

 

how many DUs are paying members of the DEM party?

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:51 PM

57. I do not know.

I am. I am a precinct chair in st. Paul, MN. I work on party activities, serve as a convention delegate, and vote for state party officers. I am an active party member. Bernie Sanders is not. I'd be happy for him to join. Then he would have a say in choosing party leaders, just like I do. Right now, he didn't. Simple.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:08 PM

74. I also am on my Dem Exec Bd

 

but how can we mock a man of 74 who gave his all for us or almost 2 years...some of these folks are so darn mean and judgemental. He may have won, you know, and of course he would be a DEM president.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:12 PM

80. I am not mocking him. I'm pointing out

That he has no vote for party offices. He is not a party member. He is not a party officer. He is not a Democrat. He could become one, but openly chooses not to be. He's free to do as he sees fit. I'm 71, and I've been in the party working hard for 50 years. I AM a Democrat, and proud to be one.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:17 PM

87. For how many years has Biden been

working hard. Let's compare, shall we?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #87)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:28 PM

92. Mineral Man

 

I respect you. I am 65, disabled (thrown down cement stairs by abusive husband) and live on $10grand a year SSDI. No home, no auto, and found out today I will now have no phone. I am terrified he will take away my HUD rental and my Medicare. I will not ask you to compare your lifestyle to mine. I advocate for the poor elderly and disabled every day. This pettiness is so hard for me. What made HRC better is she adopted Bernie's platform. He will always be a hero to me. I prefer Progressive Dems to Corporate Dems. We have one enemy now, Cheeto.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:24 PM

90. I don't see any mocking

People are saying the divisiveness isn't helpful. Many people have given a lot to the party, and for more than two years. That includes many of the people voting or DNC chair.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:04 PM

154. Voting member. Not a paying member.

 

I'm a registered Democrat, but I refuse to fund either of the 2 major parties. I only fund 3rd party candidates.

Democrats don't need money as much as they need a better message. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at the party if their message isn't appealing enough to moderates.

If the Democrats were to come up with a good message that fits on a bumper sticker, I would buy the bumper sticker.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:25 AM

211. +1,000! nt

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:31 PM

35. Like, OMG, can you believe what Bernie said about you Tom? Go slap him!

This reeks of someone trying to inflate a dispute for their own reasons.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:32 PM

37. He's certainly not helping with comments like that. It makes me wonder ...

... what he's trying to do.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:52 AM

298. Trying to fix a broken Democratic Party.

 


Pretty obvious actually.



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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #298)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 12:16 PM

301. "Actually" ... nothing could be further from the truth. Our party is NOT "broken", and ...

... his words only cause division. What's "pretty obvious" is that he's not thinking things through very well, he doesn't pause to consider the consequences and the negative ripple-effect.

Just like our Union, the Democratic Party is imperfect and can always be improved ... but whenever anyone suggests that it's "broken" ... well, that just convinces me that they're not really serious, and that they're just going for the cheap-shot insult. (Aside from whatever entertainment value it may have, it remains unclear to me how anyone believes that such tactics will actually help the party... if indeed, that's their true motive.)

So even giving him the benefit of the doubt, at this point his greatest contribution to improving the DEMOCRATIC party would be for him to think before he speaks, or to simply keep his thoughts to himself (in my opinion.)


-----
Hello Alerter: These are my opinions with regard to how divisive rhetoric and insults can damage our party's reputation and cause strife and distrust within its ranks. No party member or supporter has been attacked, I have expressed my feelings with regard to words and deeds and actions and how I believe they are mistakes and missteps. I've pointed out that in some cases a persons actions and words do not comport with their stated motivations and how that is puzzling. I've said nothing to insult any individual.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #301)


Response to Name removed (Reply #307)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:58 PM

309. Using the word "better" is an odd way to describe a message that was soundly rejected.

Bernie is a better messenger than most of the establishment Democrats.
Are you speaking of his oratory skills? Frankly, I think whatever message he has always ends up being lost in the background as it's outperformed by his distracting gesticulations. Personally, I find his anger and abrupt style to be very off-putting and not uplifting or motivating at all. Obviously, that "connects" with a certain segment, but as we saw, it didn't connect with enough.

And I want to here what he has to say.
Okay. But can you explain how it is that his divisive comments are supposed to help anything? I question his motives. I doubt he's sincere. Or, maybe he just needs to find a way to modulate his tone. Talk and not bark. Or he needs to hire a writer that has better communication skills. Face it, there are times when "aggressive blunt talk" or being "plain spoken" is definitely NOT an asset ... it can come across as being unnecessarily rude rather than helpful or sincere. The fact many people, to this day, continue to reject his message should be evidence enough of that and would, I think, make him re-think things.

... establishment Democrats
What exactly does this mean? Who's being slammed here? Is there a list of Establishment Democrats and Non-Establishment Democrats that I can examine?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #309)


Response to Name removed (Reply #312)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 07:21 PM

313. Some thoughts ...

We are talking about his opinion on issues. In this case his position is his best pick to lead the DNC.
He has a poor track record that's proven to be rejected. Why should we suddenly trust that this so-called "best pick" will actually be the best. Especially of the "best pick" shares the same philosophy of Bernie's that's already been rejected. This type of thinking doesn't make sense to me. If any logic is being applied to this, I find it difficult to follow.

If picking (favoring) one candidate over the other is what you call "divisive," then every election is a "divisive" act. And democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest.
That's a strawman argument. It's not that he has a "favorite" ... it's his attacks and smears of actual Democrats that I find offensive.

As for "aggressive blunt talk," it didn't seem to hurt the current White House occupant.
It hurts our nation. It hurts our stature. It makes people disengage and avoid politics.

At least Bernie's "aggressive blunt talk" is more fact-based. I'll take brutal honesty over weak messages any day.
Seriously, you want to go there? Of what "facts" do you refer? Perhaps you mean "opinion".

I'll take brutal honesty over weak messages any day.
You will? Which "weak message" Democrats are you referring to? Our party's message is not weak. More people preferred our party's message. Please explain how that's "weak".

If constructive criticism is what you call "divisive," then count me among the dividers of the nation.
There's nothing "constructive" about what he's saying. It's just tearing down and destroying. That's not constructive. You don't burn down someone's house and call it "re-decorating", do you? Why would anyone want to do that? Why would any Democrat encourage it and rejoice or take pleasure in how he's been behaving?

then count me among the dividers of the nation.
What an odd thing to be proud of. Does this mean that you're among those who believe that you have to destroy the Democratic party in order to rebuild it from the ground up? (I don't know... I'm just asking. There are people out there who believe such things, you know. Are you one of them? Is this your vision for the future of our party?)

Establishment Democrats are ones who have been around a long time but are slow to evolve.
That's not really saying much. It's vague. Who are they? Which ones are "establishment" and which ones aren't? Is there no advantage to experience? Do you really want a bunch of newbies trying to run our government? What this "evolve" thing you speak of? Evolve into what? Evolve into Bernie? Hasn't that already been rejected? Why keep trying?

This pejorative is just bandied about so willy-nilly that it appears to apply only as an insult du-jour. Thrown out as a way to be dismissive of anyone that you happen to disagree with at the moment. Is Elizabeth Warren "establishment"? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, apparently. Al Franken? Again sometimes yes, sometimes no. (You see why I can't take it seriously? It's the "intellectuals" version of calling someone a poopy-head. Totally absurd.)

Tell me, is Bernie an "establishment" Democrat? Oh wait. That's right, he's not a Democrat. I'd probably take him seriously and give more consideration of his words if he actually had some skin in the game and could actually make a lasting commitment to the party he wants to exert so much control over.

Would you want someone from the Lions Club sitting on the sidelines telling the Rotary Club how it should operate? Do you think that the First United Methodist Church members would appreciate someone from the Unitarian Church popping in and telling them how they ought to be running things? (It's the same thing. They're not going to listen to a non-member.)

Seriously now... what's up with that? He's got a lot of nerve when it comes to that. Anyway, considering how long he's been in Washington, wouldn't you also call HIM and "establishment" politician? I certainly would... and I don't mean that as any sort of insult either. It's not an insult... it's just a fact. Why does his flavor of being "establishment" not offend you?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #313)


Response to Name removed (Reply #315)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:26 PM

316. Well...

He's not a member of the party. His pick is just a way for him to continue to influence something he has no business influencing. And, it's his time for him exit the stage. He tried, he failed and now it's time for him to move on. (Unless he wants to re-commit in a meaningful way to the party. Which, he obviously does not want to do, and therefore I have no reservations in dismissing someone whom the party has also rejected in no uncertain terms. He's not being serious, therefore I cannot take him seriously.)

... because it's all about the private club and not about the country or the planet, right?
Yes, that's how political parties work. You guys will just have to learn to work within the system instead of wasting time trying to dismantle it. Time to be realistic and mature. (This is why third parties fail or languish. This is why the only "power" of third parties is to be a spoiler by drawing away votes from the major party that they're philosophically closer to.)

I'm a partisan Democrat that's willing to put country over party.
You say that as if you're proud of yourself. You shouldn't be. What you're boasting about is a liability.

(Words, words...) I doubt you want to go there, especially on this forum.
I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about.

Evolve in to a party who get's it, that WHAT is more important than WHO.
What exactly does our party not "get"? We have a damn good party! This kind of whining talk that I keep hearing is a bit unrealistic to me and in the quest for perfection you guys end up sabotaging the pretty-damn-good-already. It's all evocative of lollipops and unicorns and rainbows, our-way or no-way. Again, it's the "let's burn down the house because it has a leaky faucet" phenomenon.

On one hand, those who advocate such a thing are quite proud of themselves and their lofty purity. But, when you think about it... destroying to start over from scratch... and in pursuit of impossible perfect to boot... well there are many who'd characterize that way of political thinking as being a bit bonkers. It's just an adult version of having a temper tantrum.

Is there no advantage to experience? // Ask the White House occupier.
Why are you being evasive? I'm asking you. It was a rhetorical question because the answer is pretty damned obvious already. The fact that you chose to be catty and evasive about it tells me a lot.

Do you really want a bunch of newbies trying to run our government? // If the newbies have better ideas then the establishment, yes. Notice I said "if."
"If" you actually feel that way, then that's a naive and idealistic way for people to look at things. It takes more than "better ideas" to run an entire country. (I said "if" too.)

(Blah, blah, blah...) So I'm not going to be baited into naming names because that's more divisive than discussing positions on issues.
Evasive. Your excessively wordy avoidance helps to reinforce my observations that this pejorative label varies depending on the person using it, and varies depending on at whom it's being hurled. In other words: it's meaningless. It's just an insult to be used whenever you disagree with someone.

But sometimes you need to tear down what stands in the way of remodeling.
That's a very presumptuous way of thinking. There's a saying about "vanity" or "pride" that I can't quite recall the wording of right now. Maybe it's a biblical quote that I'm blanking on. Anyway, he really does have some gall to think the he (someone whom our party rejected, and someone whose time has come and gone) is the SOLE SAVIOR of a party that he doesn't even care for enough to bother joining. Weird. What kind of message does that send?

The only issue on this thread is whether or not Bernie should have an opinion...
Sorry, that's bullshit. To the best of my knowledge, no reasonable person believes that he shouldn't "have an opinion". He, like anyone, can have an opinion.

and whether or not we should respect it despite his party status.
That's more to the point. His day is over. His song is at an end and the last note is fading. The sun is setting on his long career. The fact is this: he CHOSE to not be a member of our party. That was his choice. Nobody forced him to reject our party. Yet he and his fans think he deserves to be treated as if he's more than what he really is. Why? In my opinion he's really done nothing to earn that kind of influence within a party he clearly has so much contempt for.

You can choose not to listen to Bernie's opinion if you want to.
Irrelevant.

I (for one) will listen to and respect his opinion, even if I don't agree with it. Bernie has earned my respect.
Also irrelevant. Respect him all you want. Enjoy. Honor him. Follow him. Follow him wherever he may go. But it's really not his place to dictate to the party.

He had his chance... but he took a pass on staying in the party. We now know where his loyalties are, and it's not with us.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:37 PM

43. I like Bernie

but not right now to swipe at people esp. not at Joe Biden. People are on the edge right now no thanks to this fucking liar in chief.

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:41 PM

48. Got that right.

We are all on edge, not knowing what is going to happen next when led by an unstable President.

We need to be united as a party. The road ahead (e.g., 2018 midterm elections) is very difficult. Intra-party sniping does no good.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:39 PM

46. Does he want Ellison to lose?

Because if I was lukewarm on Ellison, Bernie's interference would push me towards someone else.

I think Ellison had a legitimate shot. I don't think this helps him one bit and I also don't think this helps Democrats if/when DNC members choose to pick someone other than Ellison. I mean, if Perez wins, is he going to come out and call him part of the "failed status quo".

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Response to SaschaHM (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:46 PM

53. I've seen discussion on Twitter

Suggesting that he may be hurting Ellison's chances.

The new DNC chair needs to heal the divisions. This sort of thing doesn't further that effort.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:06 AM

240. It's certainly influencing my decision

I'm at the point where anyone with Bernie Baggage loses my support. His agenda anymore seems to be tearing apart Dems so that the Trump GOP can win. He needs to go. His remaining supporters go right along with it. Bernie agitates, but it's never his fault. He's not the one who is divisive. Never! He's bad for progressives and the progressive movement. He's nothing but buzzwords and agitation. He doesn't actually get anything done.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:43 PM

50. I think it's unfortunate the race for chair is subject

Last edited Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

to needless polarization. Sanders and Schumer endorsed Ellison months ago. Sanders seems angry that the former VP gave an opinion about the head of his own party. Why shouldn't Biden have that right?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:45 PM

52. This is who he is. Never stops fighting.

 

Thinks little about strategy. It is his whole appeal to some.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:15 PM

85. In this case

He doesn't raise any substantive concerns. What does he have against Perez? "Failed status quo" doesn't say anything, and it's not an accurate description of Perez.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:46 PM

54. That sounds like politics...

 

...or at best, fresh wounds if you are easily injured.

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Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:06 PM

71. You really should read the TOS. nt

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:48 PM

56. I have no problem with either Perez or Ellision, but really Bernie, isn't it time

you became a Democrat and then make your case.

This aligning himself with the Democrats in the Senate, but refusing to become part of the Democratic party is becoming really old hat.

John Lewis endorsed Keith Ellison today, and guess what, BOTH John Lewis and Keith Ellison are DEMOCRATS



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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:54 PM

58. Yeah... Sorry Ellison... Distance yourself from Sanders quick

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:54 PM

59. Sanders is not a Democrat, but an Independent.

He and every Independent needs to take their NOSE out of our party business. If he and other Independents want a say in our party business, in who our next DNC chair is, they need to OFFICIALLY join the party or STFU.

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Response to The_Voice_of_Reason (Reply #59)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:58 PM

62. Can you imagine a republican

 

weighing in on who we should pick as DNC chair? They would be told to fuck off. Why is this so hard for some posters to understand?

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Response to liquid diamond (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:06 PM

72. Cult of Personality

swooners

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Response to Skittles (Reply #72)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:12 PM

79. +1

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Response to liquid diamond (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:45 PM

142. I wish I knew.

No one wants to deny people a voice, but if you want a voice in our INNER PARTY POLITICS, join the party, or shut up. Sure Donald J Trump would not let me as a non-member dictate how he runs Maralogo.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:59 PM

63. Bernie, like Hillary represents the PAST...and Democrats need to keep their eye on the FUTURE

 

And for that reason...he really needs to take a back seat. He will not ever be the Democratic nominee because, in all honesty, too many Democrats feel that his decision to fight well beyond when he stood any realistic shot at winning played a part in losing. Many people are just never going to forgive that. There needs to be a new voice that will actually unify all groups that oppose Trump. Bernie can never be that person. It is what it is and he really needs to take a more behind the scenes roll now. Just my honest opinion.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 08:59 PM

64. wasn't Biden on the winning national ticket twice ? and Perez served under the popular admin ?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:00 PM

65. President Trumputin Bannon is laughing his ass off right about now

 

Can the left EVER get it together and fight the enemy as one?

FFS this is pathetic.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #65)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:07 PM

73. +1

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:02 PM

68. I'm not with Bernie on this one..

I just want to see a 50 state strategy.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:09 PM

76. I have some friends who are supporting Ellison

They are upset with Sanders because they feel that Sanders comments will hurt Ellison. I agree but then again, I am supporting Tom Perez

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:14 PM

82. I agree with Bernie

And no primary wounds are opened unless you let them be opened.

Bernie's comments about the status quo are strictly forward thinking. He's not even referring to the primary.

So yes, I vote for change. The status quo is what made Hillary less popular. She won the majority vote rightfully so but, imagine if we had more of the majority vote. Trump wouldn't have had a chance.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #82)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:22 PM

89. We already got change

with Trump.

Words like change and status quo say nothing. Hillary isn't running to head the DNC. To pretend that Tom Perez is the same as her is ridiculous. He is running on a platform to tackle voter suppression. You'll have to explain to me why fighting for the voting rights of disenfranchised voters is so unacceptably "status quo." It looks to me that this is about a turf fight and nothing else.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:14 PM

83. I am pretty sure that Bernie endorsed Ellison long before

 

Biden endorsed Perez, so it seems that Biden is the one that should have held his endorsement if it was contentious...

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #83)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:17 PM

86. Lots of people have endorsed different candidates

The endorsements aren't what's contentious.

And I disagree that a former VP has no right to express preference over who he wants to head his own party.

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #83)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:44 PM

140. Former Vice President Biden most certainly does have a right to endorse

who he wants for DNC CHAIR.. just as all these people do..

The UFCW, the UFW and the Fire-fighters union endorse Tom Perez for DNC chair!

"The Democratic Party is at a crossroads, and it needs leaders with strong progressive voices as well as unique skills and experiences to lead the party forward. While there are a number of very good candidates in the DNC chair race, Tom Perez offers the party what it so desperately needs – bold leadership and ideas, strong experience managing an organization at the state and federal level, and someone singularly focused on rebuilding the party across the country.

He understands the realities faced by hard-working families all across America who are desperate for a better life. Our members saw firsthand his passion and commitment to improving the lives of union workers as he joined with us to push for safer working conditions at poultry plants, and as he fiercely advocated in favor of the Overtime Rule. As Labor Secretary, he not only pushed for progressive reforms, he helped manage a multi-billion dollar agency with thousands of employees. In light of the challenges the party faces, Secretary Perez has the experience and vision for the changes the DNC must make, and is the right leader who can make these changes happen. We enthusiastically support his candidacy."

http://www.ufcw.org/2016/12/16/ufcw-endorses-tom-perez-for-dnc-chair/

More~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612780/-The-UFCW-the-UFW-and-the-Fire-fighters-union-endorse-Tom-Perez-for-DNC-chair

OK.. one more..

Today it became known that the International Association of Firefighters, the main union representing American firefighters, has broken with the AFL- CIO and endorsed Tom Perez too:

"In a statement, Schaitberger praised Perez as a "a tireless advocate for civil and human rights" who can transcend what the union president called "a narrow focus on identity and cultural politics that alienated" some longtime Democrats from the party.

"Tom Perez is the person who has the right mix of personal background, progressive values, experience and total commitment to all workers, in all regions and states across the country," Schaitberger said. "To have Tom Perez as the Chair of one of our nation's two major political parties would be a significant victory for workers across America."

http://services.prod.iaff.org/ContentFile/Get/30617

In the meantime Tom Perez is also getting important Latino support.

The Latino Victory Fund are supporting his bid for the DNC chair, and I would urge everyone to read an excellent article written by Victoria DeFrancesco Soto over at NBC Latino:

She argues that Tom Perez is exactly the man the DNC needs now, because he appeals to Latino voters and minority voters because of his past relentless fight for civil rights, but also because he has a great appeal/ connection to the white working class because of his work as Secretary of Labor.

For everyone not really familiar with Tom Perez accomplishments as Secretary of Labor, I would recommend this article describing who Tom Perez is, and what he did standing up for workers’ rights, the 15 dollar minimum wage and overtime protection:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/opinion-tom-perez-what-dnc-needs-now-n697746

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:18 PM

88. Dear Bernie, become a DEMOCRAT or STFU.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:27 PM

91. VP BIDEN and President Barack Obama are a successful ADMIN .. they

went out with pols in the high 50s. Anyone who calls them "status quo" is a divider..

#Tom Perez is NOT "status quo.. #TeamPerez here

Biden has a great endorsement for Tom Perez..

WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Vice President Joe Biden is backing Tom Perez to head the Democratic National Committee, calling the former Obama administration labor secretary the "best bet to help bring the party back."

snip//

"Biden's support, his first political act since leaving office, is the highest-profile endorsement in the crowded — and still fluid — race to lead the Democratic Party, which has rekindled party divisions exposed in last year's presidential primary campaign.

While former President Barack Obama has praised his former labor secretary as "tireless, wicked smart," he's so far withheld a formal endorsement.

Biden cast Perez, a Dominican-American civil rights lawyer who grew up in the Rust Belt, as a tireless champion of working Americans, immigrants and the disabled.

"He knows how to explain why our party's core beliefs matter to the immigrant family in Arizona and the coal miner in West Virginia. That matters," Biden said in a statement. "I've watched him work. I think I know his heart. That's why I endorse him as the next chairman of the DNC."

Perez, who was quietly urged by the White House to jump into the race, faces his stiffest competition from Ellison.

Democratic strategists with knowledge of the chairman selection process say Perez has as much as a 66-member lead among the 447 members of the party who will vote on the next chairman at the party convention in late February. In total, 304 members have indicated who they're backing."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6192565e58f44ee99750f9ee86b69848/biden-backs-perez-race-lead-democratic-party

Mahalo, otohara

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Response to Cha (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:49 PM

101. Sanders did not call Obama or Biden the status quo. nt

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Response to DLevine (Reply #101)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:56 PM

103. Just Perez?

Why? What makes him the status quo?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #103)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:18 PM

118. Bernie did say he admired Perez.

Bernie spoke of a status-quo approach which he believes has failed us. Evidently Bernie sees Ellison as the best choice moving forward. Maybe he will clarify his remarks- I'm not going to pretend I know his reasoning. I'm only trying to point out that the article is inaccurate and therefore divisive.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #118)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:10 PM

156. Here is a video of him making those comments

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Response to DLevine (Reply #101)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:02 PM

110. Neither is Tom Perez..

The UFCW, the UFW and the Fire-fighters union endorse Tom Perez for DNC chair!

"The Democratic Party is at a crossroads, and it needs leaders with strong progressive voices as well as unique skills and experiences to lead the party forward. While there are a number of very good candidates in the DNC chair race, Tom Perez offers the party what it so desperately needs – bold leadership and ideas, strong experience managing an organization at the state and federal level, and someone singularly focused on rebuilding the party across the country.

He understands the realities faced by hard-working families all across America who are desperate for a better life. Our members saw firsthand his passion and commitment to improving the lives of union workers as he joined with us to push for safer working conditions at poultry plants, and as he fiercely advocated in favor of the Overtime Rule. As Labor Secretary, he not only pushed for progressive reforms, he helped manage a multi-billion dollar agency with thousands of employees. In light of the challenges the party faces, Secretary Perez has the experience and vision for the changes the DNC must make, and is the right leader who can make these changes happen. We enthusiastically support his candidacy."

http://www.ufcw.org/2016/12/16/ufcw-endorses-tom-perez-for-dnc-chair/

More~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612780/-The-UFCW-the-UFW-and-the-Fire-fighters-union-endorse-Tom-Perez-for-DNC-chair

OK.. one more..

Today it became known that the International Association of Firefighters, the main union representing American firefighters, has broken with the AFL- CIO and endorsed Tom Perez too:

"In a statement, Schaitberger praised Perez as a "a tireless advocate for civil and human rights" who can transcend what the union president called "a narrow focus on identity and cultural politics that alienated" some longtime Democrats from the party.

"Tom Perez is the person who has the right mix of personal background, progressive values, experience and total commitment to all workers, in all regions and states across the country," Schaitberger said. "To have Tom Perez as the Chair of one of our nation's two major political parties would be a significant victory for workers across America."

http://services.prod.iaff.org/ContentFile/Get/30617

In the meantime Tom Perez is also getting important Latino support.

The Latino Victory Fund are supporting his bid for the DNC chair, and I would urge everyone to read an excellent article written by Victoria DeFrancesco Soto over at NBC Latino:

She argues that Tom Perez is exactly the man the DNC needs now, because he appeals to Latino voters and minority voters because of his past relentless fight for civil rights, but also because he has a great appeal/ connection to the white working class because of his work as Secretary of Labor.

For everyone not really familiar with Tom Perez accomplishments as Secretary of Labor, I would recommend this article describing who Tom Perez is, and what he did standing up for workers’ rights, the 15 dollar minimum wage and overtime protection:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/opinion-tom-perez-what-dnc-needs-now-n697746

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Response to Cha (Reply #110)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:24 PM

121. Perez sounds awesome.

I don't know why Bernie does not support him- he did say he respects him. Maybe he will speak more about his thinking on this. But remember, he's just offering his opinion.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #121)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:42 AM

191. Perez didn't endorse him

In the primary, while Ellison did.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #101)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:05 AM

222. Yes he did, for a whole fuckin year ... including the "establishment"

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #222)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 08:25 AM

230. I'm talking about his statement referenced in the article.

Sanders wholeheartedly supported the Obama-Biden ticket in 2008 and 2012. In an interview in the June 5, 2008 Burlington Free Press, Sanders said: "I will do everything I can to see that he is elected president."
He did the same after Hillary won the nomination.

Despite disagreeing with Obama on some issues, he reliably stands with Democrats and fights for us against the KGOP.

We need to stop trashing fellow progressive and focus on fighting the fascists.

ETA: This is my last DU post. Just so tired of the in-fighting. So demoralizing. How will we ever stop Trump if we keep trashing our friends and supporters. It's insane.

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Response to DLevine (Reply #101)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:54 PM

265. Yes he did

Sanders wants to break from President Obama and his legacy. Sanders tried to primary President Obama and does not want the party to protect President Obama's legacy.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 09:48 PM

100. I welcome Bernie's comments and support for Keith Ellison.


This has nothing to do with the Primary.


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Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:01 PM

109. #Tom Perez DOES speak for Working People!

The UFCW, the UFW and the Fire-fighters union endorse Tom Perez for DNC chair!

"The Democratic Party is at a crossroads, and it needs leaders with strong progressive voices as well as unique skills and experiences to lead the party forward. While there are a number of very good candidates in the DNC chair race, Tom Perez offers the party what it so desperately needs – bold leadership and ideas, strong experience managing an organization at the state and federal level, and someone singularly focused on rebuilding the party across the country.

He understands the realities faced by hard-working families all across America who are desperate for a better life. Our members saw firsthand his passion and commitment to improving the lives of union workers as he joined with us to push for safer working conditions at poultry plants, and as he fiercely advocated in favor of the Overtime Rule. As Labor Secretary, he not only pushed for progressive reforms, he helped manage a multi-billion dollar agency with thousands of employees. In light of the challenges the party faces, Secretary Perez has the experience and vision for the changes the DNC must make, and is the right leader who can make these changes happen. We enthusiastically support his candidacy."

http://www.ufcw.org/2016/12/16/ufcw-endorses-tom-perez-for-dnc-chair/

More~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612780/-The-UFCW-the-UFW-and-the-Fire-fighters-union-endorse-Tom-Perez-for-DNC-chair

OK.. one more..

Today it became known that the International Association of Firefighters, the main union representing American firefighters, has broken with the AFL- CIO and endorsed Tom Perez too:

"In a statement, Schaitberger praised Perez as a "a tireless advocate for civil and human rights" who can transcend what the union president called "a narrow focus on identity and cultural politics that alienated" some longtime Democrats from the party.

"Tom Perez is the person who has the right mix of personal background, progressive values, experience and total commitment to all workers, in all regions and states across the country," Schaitberger said. "To have Tom Perez as the Chair of one of our nation's two major political parties would be a significant victory for workers across America."

http://services.prod.iaff.org/ContentFile/Get/30617

In the meantime Tom Perez is also getting important Latino support.

The Latino Victory Fund are supporting his bid for the DNC chair, and I would urge everyone to read an excellent article written by Victoria DeFrancesco Soto over at NBC Latino:

She argues that Tom Perez is exactly the man the DNC needs now, because he appeals to Latino voters and minority voters because of his past relentless fight for civil rights, but also because he has a great appeal/ connection to the white working class because of his work as Secretary of Labor.

For everyone not really familiar with Tom Perez accomplishments as Secretary of Labor, I would recommend this article describing who Tom Perez is, and what he did standing up for workers’ rights, the 15 dollar minimum wage and overtime protection:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/opinion-tom-perez-what-dnc-needs-now-n697746

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:07 PM

113. Sanders is correct: "move beyond the failed status-quo"

 

Need proof? Just look at the last 24 years....

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #113)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:13 PM

116. The election just did that

People insisted they wanted change, and they got it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #116)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:38 PM

133. The thread is about the Dem status quo...

 

..and I agree with Senator Sanders on this.

As far as 'People insisted they wanted change, and they got it." - technically
Clinton won. Clinton got the popular vote and lost because of election fraud.

Democrats unfortunately, because of election fraud, have a higher bar to win elections. That's
status quo as well - the Dem leadership does nothing (or very little) to fight election stealing.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #133)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:52 PM

146. The election ended the Democratic status quo

Perez is running on combating voter disenfranchisement.

Bernie makes a broad brush condemnation of the status quo in ways that are not appropriate or accurate. Perez' work has been as a Civil Rights attorney, defending voting and workers rights. Bernie has been an elected representative in DC for 30 years. I fail to see how Perez is more status quo than Bernie is. Also, Bernie says nothing in that statement that relates to the actual job of DNC chair.

Ellison is running for chair on a message of unifying the party. The comments cited in the OP don't help that.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #113)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:27 PM

123. No he isn't.. Tom Perez is NOT "status quo" BS is wrong.

The UFCW, the UFW and the Fire-fighters union endorse Tom Perez for DNC chair!

"The Democratic Party is at a crossroads, and it needs leaders with strong progressive voices as well as unique skills and experiences to lead the party forward. While there are a number of very good candidates in the DNC chair race, Tom Perez offers the party what it so desperately needs – bold leadership and ideas, strong experience managing an organization at the state and federal level, and someone singularly focused on rebuilding the party across the country.

He understands the realities faced by hard-working families all across America who are desperate for a better life. Our members saw firsthand his passion and commitment to improving the lives of union workers as he joined with us to push for safer working conditions at poultry plants, and as he fiercely advocated in favor of the Overtime Rule. As Labor Secretary, he not only pushed for progressive reforms, he helped manage a multi-billion dollar agency with thousands of employees. In light of the challenges the party faces, Secretary Perez has the experience and vision for the changes the DNC must make, and is the right leader who can make these changes happen. We enthusiastically support his candidacy."

http://www.ufcw.org/2016/12/16/ufcw-endorses-tom-perez-for-dnc-chair/

More~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612780/-The-UFCW-the-UFW-and-the-Fire-fighters-union-endorse-Tom-Perez-for-DNC-chair

OK.. one more..

Today it became known that the International Association of Firefighters, the main union representing American firefighters, has broken with the AFL- CIO and endorsed Tom Perez too:

"In a statement, Schaitberger praised Perez as a "a tireless advocate for civil and human rights" who can transcend what the union president called "a narrow focus on identity and cultural politics that alienated" some longtime Democrats from the party.

"Tom Perez is the person who has the right mix of personal background, progressive values, experience and total commitment to all workers, in all regions and states across the country," Schaitberger said. "To have Tom Perez as the Chair of one of our nation's two major political parties would be a significant victory for workers across America."

http://services.prod.iaff.org/ContentFile/Get/30617

In the meantime Tom Perez is also getting important Latino support.

The Latino Victory Fund are supporting his bid for the DNC chair, and I would urge everyone to read an excellent article written by Victoria DeFrancesco Soto over at NBC Latino:

She argues that Tom Perez is exactly the man the DNC needs now, because he appeals to Latino voters and minority voters because of his past relentless fight for civil rights, but also because he has a great appeal/ connection to the white working class because of his work as Secretary of Labor.

For everyone not really familiar with Tom Perez accomplishments as Secretary of Labor, I would recommend this article describing who Tom Perez is, and what he did standing up for workers’ rights, the 15 dollar minimum wage and overtime protection:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/opinion-tom-perez-what-dnc-needs-now-n697746

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Response to Cha (Reply #123)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:39 PM

134. We all have our opinions...

 

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #134)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:45 PM

141. And some are not welcome, apparently.

This party needs desperately to win back the melinials and it feels like they aren't welcome to help shape the future of the party.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #141)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:51 PM

144. Totally agree...

 

I'm a 'boomer' and I grew up with basically everything that progressives advocate for.
I had free (almost free minus small fees) Community College and CA St University.
My parents never had to worry about healthcare per se. Very middle middle class,
but we lived the American dream. Great jobs were readily available.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #113)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:37 AM

212. the last 24 years have been better for a lot of people than before that

thanks to democratic presidents we had.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #212)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 04:54 AM

216. WINNER!

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #212)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:06 AM

223. +1

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:27 PM

124. Well he is right. Blaming Biden I don't know

 

but Dems need to start at the bottom and build a structure, a 50 state plan from dog catcher up.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:31 PM

127. BERNIE! JOIN THE PARTY!

Or be quiet.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:35 PM

130. Whatever helps him sleep at night.

 



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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:35 PM

131. "Bernie Sanders Muddles Allys Message in DNC Race"

snip//

In the inside-baseball struggle to be the next chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison and his biggest supporter, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, are sending conflicting signals.

Ellison has made his campaign all about uniting the party, while Sanders keeps highlighting the divide exposed during his presidential primary against Hillary Clinton last year. That more confrontational approach risks undermining Ellison's message and turning off the Democratic insiders who sit on the DNC, which will elect its next leader later this month.

snip//

Ellison himself had nothing but nice things to say about the development.

"I admire and respect Vice-President Biden. He has given great service to our country as a U.S. Senator and in the White House," the congressman said in a statement. "Vice-President Biden is known for loyalty to people he has worked with, and I can certainly appreciate him wanting to support Tom, who worked in the Administration."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/bernie-sanders-muddles-ally-s-message-dnc-race-n715651

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:37 PM

132. The truth hurts but the continuing dismal performance by Democrats nationwide proves Bernie right.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #132)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:02 PM

153. What does that have to do with Perez?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #153)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:09 PM

155. He's part of the Clinton/Obama wing of the Party. Time to move to the left, not the center.

The "centrist" approach practiced by Democrats for many years now has led to spectacular failures nationwide.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #155)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:12 PM

158. Says who?

How is he a centrist? Is it all his working on civil rights, workers rights and voting rights you object to?

There isn't an Obama/Clinton wing. They were two separate parts of the party. Obama invited Clinton to serve in his administration. And if you exclude everyone loyal to Obama and Clinton, you've written off the entire party, including Ellison.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #158)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:18 PM

162. I think everyone is loyal once the leaders are chosen. The choosing is where the rub is.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #162)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:32 PM

168. Some of us actually think about qualifications

and the responsibilities of the position, rather than operating according to alliances from a long-since settled primary.

No one affirming Bernie's position has made one substantive point in favor of Elision or against Perez. It's pretty clear that very few actually care but instead are operating based on allegiances from a long-settled primary. I don't care for the politics of personality, and it's disconcerting to see how many feel comfortable making decisions based on so little.



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Response to BainsBane (Reply #168)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:39 PM

170. Unfortunately, I think our Presidential elections have become ones based on personality.

Perez would definitely be an improvement over DW Schultz and Brazille. John Lewis's support of Ellison was a big factor in my supporting him.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #132)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:30 PM

166. It does.

But it doesn't matter because Sanders is an "enemy" now and anyone who agrees with him is branded an enemy too. :/ So I guess were "undemocratic" now or something. :rolleyes

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #132)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:07 AM

224. To continue not to recognize Gerrymandering and voter suppression as the MAIN factors

... is what's going to continue our losses.

Sanders is keen at this and has been for decades

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #224)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:01 PM

255. When millions sit at home rather than vote I'd say we have a problem.

If what you say is true then there's little hope, we can't win. I think a new, non-corporate, populist message will help wake the apathetic voters up.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #255)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:05 PM

285. We have a bigger problem making up realities about voter suppression and gerrymandering. Trillions

... can come out and vote and Benedict Donald can still win.

Its not logical to think people power at the power can beat simple calculations "issues"

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #285)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:50 PM

288. I don't know about trillions-that may not be reality. However, millions did stay home this time.

We need a better message than "I'm with Her". Let's make it about the voters next time, and that includes voter suppression.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #288)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:56 PM

289. Agreed, voter suppression first... then a message. Stronger Together is unbeatable then and now...

.. as long as we have free and fair elections... without them... NOTHING we do is going to be 'better'

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #289)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:58 PM

290. Totally agree. Suppression cost Gore in 2000 and it's only gotten worse since then.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:43 PM

139. If I had any words of wisdom for Bernie it would be

 

simmer down sparky. Biden has a right to his preference and Bernie has a right to his preference, no need to open up old wounds, just an explanation of why their making their choice is fine.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 10:49 PM

143. Bernie mostly throws out buzzwords but there is very little substance there

What does he mean by failed status quo ?

Was Obama status quo ? Obama biden won the last two elections.

Can he give specifics about where ellison would be different and better than perez ?

Bernie seems to be making this about him and what he had always done rather than actually saying positive things about ellison.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #143)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:00 PM

152. Exactly!

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Response to JI7 (Reply #143)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 06:58 PM

279. That's how he rolls - it's all about him

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:10 PM

157. Oh ffs, Bernie. Why have you not joined the party? Why nothing EVER but criticism?!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:15 PM

160. Ohhhhh! How dramatic!

 

More opportunity for phony outrage, playing the victim, dire warnings, etc. Sanders should know better than to poke the babies.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:15 PM

161. No Wipe....

Sanders Supports Congressman Keith Ellison and by a meeting today in Detroit, the Michigan Democratic Party Faithful (including the Michigan Democratic Party Chair) Supports #KeithForDNC too! Go Keith!!!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:25 PM

164. The UFCW, the UFW and the Fire-fighters union endorse Tom Perez for DNC chair!

snip//

"The Democratic Party is at a crossroads, and it needs leaders with strong progressive voices as well as unique skills and experiences to lead the party forward. While there are a number of very good candidates in the DNC chair race, Tom Perez offers the party what it so desperately needs – bold leadership and ideas, strong experience managing an organization at the state and federal level, and someone singularly focused on rebuilding the party across the country.

He understands the realities faced by hard-working families all across America who are desperate for a better life. Our members saw firsthand his passion and commitment to improving the lives of union workers as he joined with us to push for safer working conditions at poultry plants, and as he fiercely advocated in favor of the Overtime Rule. As Labor Secretary, he not only pushed for progressive reforms, he helped manage a multi-billion dollar agency with thousands of employees. In light of the challenges the party faces, Secretary Perez has the experience and vision for the changes the DNC must make, and is the right leader who can make these changes happen. We enthusiastically support his candidacy."

http://www.ufcw.org/2016/12/16/ufcw-endorses-tom-perez-for-dnc-chair/

More~ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/19/1612780/-The-UFCW-the-UFW-and-the-Fire-fighters-union-endorse-Tom-Perez-for-DNC-chair

OK.. one more..

Today it became known that the International Association of Firefighters, the main union representing American firefighters, has broken with the AFL- CIO and endorsed Tom Perez too:

"In a statement, Schaitberger praised Perez as a "a tireless advocate for civil and human rights" who can transcend what the union president called "a narrow focus on identity and cultural politics that alienated" some longtime Democrats from the party.

"Tom Perez is the person who has the right mix of personal background, progressive values, experience and total commitment to all workers, in all regions and states across the country," Schaitberger said. "To have Tom Perez as the Chair of one of our nation's two major political parties would be a significant victory for workers across America."

http://services.prod.iaff.org/ContentFile/Get/30617

In the meantime Tom Perez is also getting important Latino support.

The Latino Victory Fund are supporting his bid for the DNC chair, and I would urge everyone to read an excellent article written by Victoria DeFrancesco Soto over at NBC Latino:

She argues that Tom Perez is exactly the man the DNC needs now, because he appeals to Latino voters and minority voters because of his past relentless fight for civil rights, but also because he has a great appeal/ connection to the white working class because of his work as Secretary of Labor.

For everyone not really familiar with Tom Perez accomplishments as Secretary of Labor, I would recommend this article describing who Tom Perez is, and what he did standing up for workers’ rights, the 15 dollar minimum wage and overtime protection:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/opinion-tom-perez-what-dnc-needs-now-n697746

#TeamPerez!


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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Feb 3, 2017, 11:45 PM

172. As for advice, if it's a choice between BS & Joe Biden, I know where I come down. No question.

Perez for DNC Chair. The people who will actually vote for DNC Chair have a bitter taste left in their mouths, and if they weren't already lined up behind Perez, this will push them over.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #172)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:16 AM

180. +1

 

It made me instantly like Perez

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Response to bravenak (Reply #180)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:52 AM

193. Did any of BS' endorsements pan out in the last election?

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #193)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:55 AM

196. None that I can remember off hand

 

I remember something about 'taking over' the washington state democratic party, but not much about any winners; the lack of widespread support is unfortunate for the 'movement' at any rate.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #172)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:09 AM

225. +1, The "Obama wing" has been able to SHOW progress vs just talk about it

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:09 AM

178. He is the main reason I support Perez

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #178)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:12 AM

185. It's my personal opinion that you're not alone in that line of thinking.

Sometimes a "toss-up" choice really isn't a toss-up after all when you start to look deeper and from many different angles. Then, the differences become crystal clear and the choice becomes easy.

Hello Alerter: In this reply, I am commenting on the fact that many people share the same opinion and that they arrived at their final decision by looking at the same evidence and by using the same style of evaluating. Navel gazing and giving one's friend a thumbs-up isn't against the rules.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #185)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:22 AM

187. I find that many feel as I do.

 

As time goes on, it's being recognized more and more. At first, I was inclined towards Ellison, then I decided to look and see which Dems I like supported whom, and that made my decision immediately. I then decided to learn more about Perez and I like him just fine.

Even though John Lewis and I are of different minds on this, you will notice me respecting his decision and not attacking him in any way. I appreciate how we, regular democrats, are able to like different candidates without trashing each other.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #187)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:50 AM

192. +++++ Note that Democrats who endorsed Ellison haven't crapped on Perez.



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Response to JHan (Reply #192)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:53 AM

195. I have noticed that too. It's pretty refreshing to not have such a backlash to an endorsement

 

I grow tired of the infighting

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Response to JHan (Reply #192)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:23 AM

208. Ellison himself has not either

i feel like sanders is making this more about himself than ellison.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #187)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 04:33 AM

214. Politicians like Reid and Lewis endorsed Ellison...

...for appeasement reasons. I fully believe that.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #187)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:35 AM

233. Funny you should mention that ...

I appreciate how we, regular democrats, are able to like different candidates without trashing each other.


... because that's a trait that I've also noticed among regular democrats. Your very precise choice of words is very revealing and may be a clue to the type of behavior we sometimes see. And I'll just leave it at that for obvious reasons.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #178)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:10 AM

226. +1, Sanders "movement" so far has been mostly talk. I've seen LITTLE TO NO ACTION and...

... the action that we've seen even against Benedict Donald has NOTHING ... NOTHING to do with him.

He's been all talk from the beginning

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:52 AM

194. If Bernie wants to tell the Democratic Party what to do, maybe he should join it.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:02 AM

198. Divide and divide. He's not helping. He needs to sit down.

Ellison is a great guy, but that is a full time job, especially NOW when we do not have the WH (or even a single branch of government).

Perez is well suited to take the reins. He's coming off a large executive responsibility and he's got a Big Picture perspective. He also has a Labor portfolio which will be helpful with outreach.

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Response to MADem (Reply #198)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:14 AM

227. +1, He's not helping... I don't see how he can see that statement as helping either. If he does then

... that's another reason I'm choosing Perez

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Response to MADem (Reply #198)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:45 PM

250. Ellison has said he will give up his house seat

if elected chair. The DFL has even told CD-5 delegates to be ready to attend a nominating meeting for his replacement.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #250)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 01:12 PM

257. Just Part of Their Power Grab

 

Tells me Ellison/Sanders wants this so badly he's willing to give up his seat.

Will they change the name to the Berniecrat party?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #250)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:32 PM

317. I think he's more useful in the House. Of course, I'm not making the decisions....

DNC Chair is a post where the leader needs to be able to take a lotta HATE. Someone is always crabbing and whining about priorities. Not reaching out enough here, spending too much there, not doing this, doing too much of that, etc.

I think someone with macro-management skills is a better pick than a working legislator....but hey, it's not my decision!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:07 AM

199. I, for one, would like a little status quo back right about now.

Sanders seems to have the sensitivity of a rock.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:14 AM

205. He's got an opinion. Let it go. We have trump because of DNC.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #205)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:25 AM

210. We have Trump due to the attacks against Dems and the DNC, and a bunch of

 

people who chose to throw their vote away based on the misinformation fed to them with regard to the DNC and the Democratic candidate.

Let's not pretend that it's the DNC's fault, when they got out 65 million votes, and we lost by a mere 70k in certain states where people chose invalid candidates or proudly didn't bother to vote because they'd been brainwashed into believing that two diametrically opposed candidates whose qualifications were so vastly different, were the same.

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Response to synergie (Reply #210)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 03:58 PM

273. Hogwash. Those people voted dem before. Face facts.

Excuses won't being us back. We are still gerrymandered into nonexistence so the dems need to learn to attract voters currently lured by trump. Enough exvuses and rationalizations and blame.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #273)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:15 PM

276. I agree, enough of the hogwash, let's look with clear eyes and see what actually happened, face fact

 

Stop excusing bad behavior, stop rationalizing away the attacks and stop ducking blame where it is rightfully placed. Attacking Dems, the DNC and lying to people about primaries being rigged by an entity that doesn't control or run them is something that harmed these people. They truly believe this nonsense and don't bother to learn how elections are run and by whom. It's why they stay home, it's why they actively refused to even register, it's why they don't know how to process information and believe fake news that catered to their personal biases.

Those people chose to believe lies told to them, and voted Trump who co-opted the losing message in the primary. Face facts, this happened. Excuses won't fix the damage done, it will keep the GOP in power and gerrymandered, when you win by a margin of 3 million votes, attracting voters is not the problem.

Enough already with allowing idiocy and lies to stand, every bit of fake news needs to be addressed, no matter which "side" it's coming from. How much pure BS did we see from supposedly left/liberal/progressive sources which was pure and utter lies? Stop ducking the responsibility and face the actual facts, there is a deeply deluded portion of the left who fell for lies, and who need to stop excusing themselves, rationalizing away their willingness to accept hogwash and take some stock of how they got here.

People who wrote in invalid candidates, and left the ballot blank, those who voted 3rd party, not because they have any clue or any actual investment in those parties, but who were throwing a tantrum about not getting their way or who swallowed every bit of propaganda fed to them, and those who were undermining the party based on nothing? They need to stop with the hogwash and the nonsense and fix what's broken. Enough with blaming the majority of us who voted for Democrat, who did the work, who were telling everyone we saw, and enduring the abuse. We need to fix what's broken, and we need to see with clear eyes HOW that happened. Can't do that if we blind ourselves to what actually happened.

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Response to synergie (Reply #276)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:31 PM

282. So many words blaming everyone but the candidate, the party and the message.

Such blame and devotion to rationalization will doom the future of the left. Look forward even if you can't let blame go.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #282)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:00 PM

284. None that were read it seems, since the vote totals debunk your "hogwash"

 

and your attempts to blame the candidate, the party and the message that 65 million people voted for. The loss was based on razor thin margins from people who are refusing to accept responsibility and devoting themselves to rationalizing away what really happened here. The left isn't doomed, we just have to deal with our version of the alt-fact obsessed folks who thrive on ignorance and reject reality. We're looking forward, even when those who deserve the blame cannot seem to accept how and why they're rejection of reality gave us this current crisis. We're just forging on without you, as you continue to heap abuse on us. It's okay, you continue raging on attacking us, our candidate, and our party, and we'll just focus on the opposition, since we know who they are.

It's telling that the attacks continue on Democrats from the supposed Left, while the actual left is busy fighting Trump.

So much rejection of what actually happened and role the those who were conned played in it. Sorry the devotion to rejecting reality isn't going to be tolerated, alt-facts won't work here.

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Response to synergie (Reply #284)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 01:17 PM

303. Razor thin still a loss. Where are your facts?

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #303)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:30 PM

308. In those words you refuse to read.

 

Razo thin loss due to people not voting, people who still claim that Hillary was the same as Trump, people that keep repeating this lie they were fed that the DNC somehow rigged primaries, people who still don't have a clue who runs primaries, people who don't understand how government works, people who literally threw their vote away by filling in an invalid candidate and leaving the ballot blank, people who still attack the ONLY qualified candidate that was on that ballot, people who bought the BS Jill Stein was selling, and so bought into the lies they were fed during the primary that they didn't listen to Bernie when he said anything to them when he showed up in the general.

Razol thins loss that's still a loss, and that was a loss for all those reasons you keep blinding yourself to. Why do you reject simple facts? The fact is that people were hoodwinked, by the same sort of vague nonsense on both sides, fed to them by a complicit media, and online propaganda that was aimed from both sides at a single candidate, that was not true, and found a receptive, ignorant audience eager to feed their bigotry and bias. Own up to what happened, stop rationalizing, stop excusing and stop deny facts and projecting your own behavior. That's not how we move forward.

We need to start with education apparently a whole lot of people are deeply ignorant an susceptible to believing whatever lies cater to their ignorance and bigotry. That needs to be addressed. Denial isn't going to do it, nor is attacking the DNC, Democrats or anyone who points out the obvious.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #282)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:51 PM

318. If it's only the candidate

There is nothing to worry about because she won't be runnng again.


They key is the future. Talk about a failed status quo reveals a stunning disconnect from the present let alone the future. The current status quo is white nationalist authoritarianism. I could not disagree more that the goal is to lure away white male voters who are drawn to that ideology. Millions of voters of color were disenfranchised this past election, following SCOTUS' striking down of article 5 of the voting rights act. Yet we hear nothing's about the from some who see a few thousand white voters in a handful of states over millions of voters of color denied their constituonal rights.



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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 02:19 AM

206. No Ellison, no Perez. Dems should COMPROMISE and agree to pick

from the remaining half dozen candidates.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 03:36 AM

213. Oh? Are we supposed to follow the party conservatives in lock step

as they continue to follow the failed policies of the past? Or are we supposed to listen to constructive criticism so we can discard what hasn't worked for decades and try something that did work during the time Howard Dean was party chair?

I'm afraid that dream of a monolithic party is seriously misplaced. That's that other political party, not the Democratic Party.

There are going to be differences of opinion. There is going to be criticism. Orthodoxy is best left to religions, bad ones.

It's a miracle Clinton won by such a large margin, considering how her partisans are still trying to alienate all the people who originally backed Sanders but voted for her in the general election.

Talk about reopening primary wounds!

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Response to Warpy (Reply #213)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:51 AM

238. Yes you are supposed to follow the Democratic Party in lockstep.

At this point it should be clear that while all Democrats may have different ideas, any Democrat is better than any Republican period ...end of story. The refighting of the primary is foolish...we have to stop Trump or this country is done...so turn your fire toward the Republican Party not the Democratic Party. The only thing that matters now is that we win. And Ellison who said he would toss out long time Dem donors is going to lose...he is a good guy, but not the right man for the job...we need to win.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #213)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:49 PM

251. Conservatives?

Are you calling Perez and Biden conservatives?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:39 AM

217. Biden had a "failed approach?" The only non-Democrats I heard say that up to now were Republicans.

Except for the possibility of Fritz Mondale or Al Gore, I can't think of a better Vice-President in my lifetime than Joe Biden. If Bernie Sanders thinks Biden had a failed approach to his job, then I can only say no wonder he's not a member of the Democratic Party. There aren't too many Democrats who would agree with that sentiment.

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Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 06:31 AM

219. Well, is anyone knows about

being a failure, it's Bernie.

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Response to Rincewind (Reply #219)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 01:58 AM

293. :-D


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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 06:51 AM

220. "Do we stay with a failed status-quo approach or do we go forward with a fundamental restructuring..

I love that the Hill article failed to include the so-called "swipe" anywhere in the article.

Here it is:

"The question is simple: Do we stay with a failed status-quo approach or do we go forward with a fundamental restructuring of the Democratic Party?"

Good question.

A "swipe"?

Not so much.

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Response to pat_k (Reply #220)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 07:15 AM

228. Its a swipe when there's no mention of gerrymandering, voter suppression or Russia...

... which Sanders is keen at doing and placing all of the onus on the DNC.

Fuck that, its about as big of a swipe as he can take factually

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Response to pat_k (Reply #220)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:59 PM

254. It's a swipe becauase he casts

Everyone but his personal choice as part of the failed status quo.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 08:54 AM

231. Get Lost, old man.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #231)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 02:37 AM

295. Wow. Ageism at DU. Disgusting. n/t

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 09:48 AM

237. K&R

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:10 AM

242. This is why he will never be more than he is. He's terrible at politics.

 

Holding his little security blanket of 'independence' about himself, he casts aspersions on everyone around him but himself.

I am so tired of this man.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Meredith McIver approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:21 AM

243. So much for the dem big tent

Back to the Hrc pup tent?

At our last county party meeting. All. Yes all of the Dems,. Yes Dems
Who were there supported Bernie in the primary..All of em...
Should I send out an email to tell them not to bother because they do not meet during standards for purity?

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #243)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:56 PM

253. the big tent you refer to

is what Bernie calls the failed status quo.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 12:52 PM

252. I voted for Sanders

But he lost. He needs to let it go.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Feb 4, 2017, 05:04 PM

274. Yawn, this again?

I mean, the status quo is why the Democrats lost.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #274)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 12:22 PM

302. Please explain the "Status quo"

Which "status quo"? It has been destroyed as bainsbane said in this thread. Trump destroyed it, and we're reeling.

Unless you mean the status quo in the DNC , and if so, neither Ellison nor Perez addressed super-delegates or caucuses. They both agree we need more grassroots activism , so what else could be the point Sanders is making?

And as I asked elsewhere, if Perez wins, does this mean Sanders will not give him support?

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Response to otohara (Original post)


Response to otohara (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 02:13 PM

305. Biden endorsement wakes up DNC chair race

I agree with Joe http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/detroit-dnc-forum-234625

He's no longer in office, but former Vice President Joe Biden still managed to put a jolt into the race for Democratic National Committee chair this week.

After a few static weeks, the race suddenly came alive again after Biden formally endorsed fellow Obama administration alumna and former Labor Secretary Tom Perez on Wednesday, publicly confirming the tacit support top Obama administration officials had given to Perez.

Biden's move, in turn, generated a burst of activity by Perez's rivals, designed to counter the impression that Perez was gaining momentum. Sen. Bernie Sanders, one of Rep. Keith Ellison's top backers in the DNC race, released a statement stressing the importance of supporting the Minnesota congressman. On Thursday, South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg rolled out a big name of his own: he unveiled the support of former DNC Chairman Steve Grossman. A day later, Ellison's team released their own former vice president endorsement: Walter Mondale.

"It certainly ratcheted up. Suddenly the emails started again. It ratcheted up the focus and I think the energy on both sides perhaps," said Maine Democratic Party Chairman Phil Bartlett, who is undecided in the DNC race.

That was on display Saturday afternoon during the third of four regional forums, this one in Detroit at Wayne State University, sponsored by the DNC. Nine candidates were on stage: Perez, Ellison, Buttigieg, South Carolina Democratic Party chairman Jaime Harrison, Idaho Democratic Party executive director Sally Boynton Brown, New Hampshire Democratic Party chairman Ray Buckley, Democratic strategist Jehmu Greene and Democrats Sam Ronan and Peter Peckarsky. Peckarsky and Ronan are two recent additions to the DNC chair candidate field.

No candidate mentioned the Biden endorsement directly but each one put an emphasis on their qualifications and endorsements.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:55 PM

320. Bernie, you didn't help the Democrats then, and you're not helping now. Bernie-voters need not

 

reply.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:51 PM

323. if people could just train themselves to ignore his latest hissy fit

 

they wouldn't have to relive the primary again.

he lost with only 43% of the vote. Not sure why everyone feels the need to heed him anytime he says anything.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:57 PM

326. I've finally decided to reply to this thread.

Baloney.

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