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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEllison no lock for DNC chair
The contest for DNC chair will affect the direction of the party for the next two to four years. I have met and like Keith Ellison but I do not want him to be DNC chair and I am encouraged that Tom Perez is getting into this race. Ellison would be the wrong choice for DNC chair in my opinion and this opinion is shared by others http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/keith-ellison-democratic-dnc-232613
Ellison is not the front-runner, Ellison has no chance at all, said Tennessee committeeman William Owen, giving voice to that view. Im a Hillary person. Bill Clinton said, 'Ill be with you till the last dog dies,' and Im the last dog. I will not vote for Keith Ellison, I will not vote for a Bernie person. I think they cost Hillary the election, and now theyre going to live with Donald Trump. Donald Trump asks, 'What do you have to lose? Nothing, except life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
California committeewoman Susie Shannons take on Ellison, however, is more representative of the ascendant progressive wings view.
Ellison and a couple of the other leading contenders (including perhaps Tom Perez) are speaking to the Texas Democratic Party SDEC meeting on Saturday. http://juanitajean.com/heads-up-to-texas-friends/
Saturday, December 17th at the Sheraton (701 E. 11th) at 1:30. Announced candidates: Keith Ellison, Jaime Harrison, and Raymond Buckley
Texas has a good number of members on the DNC and so this could be an interesting meeting.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)From his lips to God's ears.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)We are at war and the last thing we need to be doing is fighting one another.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)He's already being railed against on twitter for daring to go against the chosen one.
#TeamPerez he has the qualifications, experience, intelligence, leadership & bilingual. He represents the people with a proven track record.
https://twitter.com/algiordano
dogman
(6,073 posts)We do need a war if the Democratic Party decides to go back to the status quo. What does he offer as an organizer?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)The TPP argument is dumb. Was he supposed to resign?
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)"Bernie does well only among young white liberals-" meme.
Then Perez an't figure out when to use his private or Official email accounts, bumping up against either the Hatch Act or the Official Records act.
Then there is life in a bubble
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Did Putin hack em?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)We didn't exist - were mere "wedges" to be "set aside"
Jesus fuck, so insulting to hear you say we would not notice what was missing from his campaign - when it was us.
dogman
(6,073 posts)Many Bernie supporters and Bernie himself supported Hillary. Post election data seems to indicate she lost among traditional Democratic voters which cost her the "Blue State" firewall. Status quo is the problem, the DNC needs new leadership.
JustinL
(722 posts)John Lewis, Luis Gutierrez, Bill deBlasio, Chuck Schumer, the AFL-CIO, and the AFT have all endorsed him after endorsing Hillary in the primary.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)brooklynite
(94,528 posts)I've also heard that Schumer et al aren't twisting any arms.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Many strong Democrats disagree strongly with your analysis. The attempts to prove that Sanders did not hurt Clinton in the general election have been so weak that it is easy to say that there is general agreement.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Sanders never really tried to get all of his supporters to go over to Clinton. I was a delegate to the national convention and many of the sanders delegates believed that Sanders could take the nomination away from Hillary Clinton at the convention. I was in the delegation where a good number of the younger sanders supporters walked in locked in arm to arm to demand that the Clinton delegates condemn Clinton and vote for Sanders. These delegates were somehow told by the Sanders people to go ahead and try this stunt. Again, I heard repeatedly that Sanders did not want to be too hard on his supporters and that we were told to be nice to the Sanders delegates and hope that they came around.
Sanders never truly attempted to reason with or deal with his supporters at the convention because he did not want to lose their support for future races. I know this in part because there whips and others who were monitoring all of the Sanders meetings and reporting back to the Clinton "whipping infrastructure" (a term that I learned in Philadelphia and love). Some of the Sanders supporters were totally out of control during the last two nights of the convention and the sanders campaign would not revoke the credentials of some really foul mouth Sanders delegates on the last night. We were fortunate in that the Sanders supporters used an unlocked/non-password protected list server to plan their stunts and the Clinton whips would warn us in advance when a demonstration was coming.
You are welcome to your opinion but I saw the consequences of Sanders campaign first hand at the convention. A great deal of effort was used to keep a group of Sanders delegates from disrupting the convention. Sanders evidently thought that a text message was sufficient.
After the convention, I found a number of Sanders supporters who were block walking for local candidates going out of their way to encourage Stein votes. One sanders supporter actually bragged about this practice at a young democrats meeting attended by one of my daughters.
You are entitled to your opinion but I saw the facts first hand at the convention and on the ground.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Obama won because Clinton did not wait until the week before the convention to endorse him. Sanders played games with the platform and delaying his endorsement that encouraged the Sanders supporters to believe that he could be the nominee and that the process was rigged.
The fact that you think that the 2008 example helps your claim is simply wrong.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)It was Clinton who treated Sanders with kid gloves The Clinton campaign had a ton of material to work with. The GOP had an oppo book that was over two feet thick on Sanders. Sanders could attack Clinton and she had to treat Sanders with kid gloves. VOX had a good article on the potential lines of attack that Sanders would be exposed to if Sanders was the nominee. http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders One of the more interesting observations in the VOX analysis is the fact that Sanders have been treated with kids gloves compared to what Sanders would face if he was the Democratic nominee. I strongly agree with the VOX's position that the so-called negative attacks against Sander have been mild. Form the article:
When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?
But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.
His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.
The attacks that would be levied against Sanders by the Kochs, the RNC candidate and others in a general election contest would make the so-called attacks against Sanders look like patty-cakes. The GOP and Kochs are not known for being nice or honest and as the article notes there are a ton of good topics available for attack. Again Trump had an oppo book on Sanders that was two feet thick. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I dont know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.
The concept that Sanders did not hurt Clinton in the general election is simply factually wrong.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)How ironic that now you're complaining about Bernie hurting Hillary in the primary... and since when is democracy something to be frowned upon, especially here inside the DEMOCRATIC Underground?!
In any case, Bernie handled himself with utmost class and is to be applauded for his Herculean effort, after the primary, to get Hillary elected. Bernie's supporters like myself threw our support overwhelmingly to Hillary - in percentages greater than in 2008, thanks to the PUMA crowd - and I don't see how insulting Democrat candidates, and their supporters, who are dedicated to advocating a true and bold progressive agenda, helps the cause.
We need to unite for 2018 and the elections to come... join with us!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Again you are ignoring the real world and the facts including a concept called math. Sanders ran a nasty campaign that was far nastier than the Clinton/Obama 2008 campaign. Sanders never had a chance of being the nominee. Clinton's lead in delegates over Sanders in 2016 was more than four times the lead that President Obama had over Clinton in 2008. Math is important in the real world. Facts are important also. You are simply wrong in your claims and you are ignoring the math.
Sanders had no chance whatsoever of overcoming Clinton's lead. In 2008, Clinton immediately endorsed President Obama and worked to elect him from day one. Sanders kept his campaign going until a week or so before the convention when he finally decided that he had squeezed enough concessions. Sanders conduct was simply wrong and unprofessional. Sanders did his best to hurt Clinton even though Sander had zero chance of catching Clinton or even significantly cut into her lead. Sanders delay in endorsing Clinton gave his supporters the false hope that he could be the nominee which in turn hurt Clinton in the general election.
I was a national delegate. Sanders was threatening to force four or five roll call votes until until the Saturday of the convention. Again, the Clinton campaign had a whipping infrastructure that kept all delegates informed. It was on Sunday before the convention when I learned that Clinton gave into Sanders demands to avoid these floor votes. Even then, Sanders did not seriously try to get his supporters to support Clinton. Again, the whipping infrastructure saw all of the texts sent by sanders to his delegates and the Clinton team was at all meetings of Sanders and his delegates. Sanders did not really try very hard to get his supporters to behave or support Clinton. Again, I was there.
Again, your claims are simply false and ignore a concept called math. Sanders had no chance of winning the nomination but his campaign was dirty and was designed to give his supporters the false hope that he could win. Sanders tactics hurt Clinton in the general election and are why I think that it would be a bad move to let any Sanders supporter be in charge of the DNC.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Your fuzzy math fails to factor in how the deck was stacked against Bernie right from the start... yet he handled it with grace, dignity, and class.
Nor did math show up in so many of the polls, which had Hillary up in most of the toss-up states and in blue states that she lost.
Inded, fuzzy math convinced Hillary she didn't need to campaign hardly at all in Wisconsin and we know how that turned out!
So much for math!
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Math is math. The fact that you do not understand or agree with the math is meaningless. Sanders only appealed to a very narrow demographic segment in the Democratic Party and lost badly with African American and Latino voters. African American and Latino voters are key segments of the party and you can not ignore their votes simply because these groups refused to support Sanders.
As of the Super Tuesday primaries, Hillary Clinton had a pledged delegate lead that Sanders had no chance of overcoming. At the end, Clinton had more than four times the lead in pledged delegates over Sanders compared to the lead in pledged delegates that President Obama had over Hillary Clinton in 2008.
Math is a good thing. Ignoring the math will not help your case.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)brer cat
(24,562 posts)Your first-hand experiences have been informative and enlightening.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)She kicked ass in both under-40 demographics.
The fracture in the party had absolutely nothing to do with the DNC's conduct under DWS's lead. Right? That could not have hurt Hillary in the least.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Thank you Gothmog.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)I enjoyed the National Convention but hated having to deal with the Sanders supporters
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)One sanders delegate really harassed one of my fellow Clinton delegates at the convention so much that he and one of the whips were worried about the Sanders delegate becoming violent. It was not fun
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)I am sorry that you and your daughter were so viciously attacked. It reminds me of another campaign and I will leave it at that.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)This was my youngest who I have not yet convinced to go to law school. She is the best debater of the three kids
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Good on you and who they have become.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)It was a great night to attend. I was really happy to be able to share this event with her You should see some of the stuff she brought back from the convention. Planned Parenthood was giving out some trump condoms
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Lol~ perhaps we can avoid another future Trump by flushing him down the toilet after sex. Dayum I love PP!
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)I personally agree with Owen. I am glad that he is on the DNC and so that he gets a vote. If I go to the Texas Democratic Party SDEC meeting this weekend, I hope to see more good Democrats with this position
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)dogman
(6,073 posts)Hillary lost the rustbelt to defecting Democrats, not Independents. The Democratic Party needs a winning strategy, we have seen the failure of the status quo. Maybe if the Texas Democratic Party wakes up, they can win in Texas.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)secure some big endorsements like Biden and Obama. If this becomes an all out 2016 primary proxy war, Perez or some outside unity pick takes it.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)I guess we will find that out, no?
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)I'm not sure picking the candidate that represents the guy AA voters soundly rejected is making them feel welcome.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Like disqualifying a black man who has been one of the most powerful voices for black people in Congress soley because he didn't support Hillary.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Yet you don't consider Harrison for a second because he didn't endorse Bernie. Let's not pretend there is some sudden concern for AA voters. We weren't in a coma during the primary. And that you so contemptuously dismiss the TN Democratic Party with its large percentage of African Americans is all too reminiscent of the attitude toward black voters--demeaned as the "confederacy" -- during the primary. Bernie is after all the candidate who insisted that allowing states with large black populations to vote relatively early in the primary distorted "Reality."
If you're going to exclude states controlled by Republicans from having a say in the DNC chair, that excludes the majority of them. It's also ironic considering you all insisted Clinton was derelict for failing to focus on white male voters in GOP controlled states. The arguments shift so rapidly according to convenience that it becomes impossible to see any concern other than Bernie. In fact, it's obvious that Nothing matters but Bernie.
Ellison happens to be a solid progressive, but if he were a pro-life, Islamophobe, and opponent of the Iran peace deal, the crowd who makes decisions entirely based on who endorsed Bernie in the primary would still support him, as we have seen with one congressional candidate after another.
I think it unfortunate that some party members are rejecting Ellison because he is Sanders choice. I would hope he could make the argument that he is not beholden to Sanders and would not carry out the divisive attacks on Democrats that Sanders makes his hallmark. I've never known Ellison to be divisive, but that his chief proponent regularly directs his ire at the party makes Ellison's task more difficult.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)It better stop now.
I grew up in fucking Sunnyside in Houston where my dad was born and he and my mom moved back to after he retired from the military so he could try to change things. I left home in '67 when I was barely 18 to move to CA to join the BPP. After the "event" (I wasn't there) I was sent to college overseas, became involved in leftist social causes, and ended up working with the Maryknolls in Guatemala until I just couldn't stand watching the SOA-trained "defenders" of global capitalism murder families without paying a price for it. Now that may offend you all to heck, but it sure as hell doesn't make me white. ("And that you so contemptuously dismiss the TN Democratic Party with its large percentage of African Americans is all too reminiscent of the attitude toward black voters--demeaned as the "confederacy" -- during the primary." <<< try this somewhere else, you missed here)
I came back here, graduated from law school and spent over three decades representing almost entirely people of color from death row inmates to victims of police brutality. I've campaigned in the South for every Democratic nominee FOLLOWING Bill Clinton, including Hillary. I'm sorry if the fact that I supported the candidate who came nearest to my political views during the primary offends you so much that you think you can spew a bunch a garbage at me about "sudden concern for AA voters."
Oh, btw, Jaime hasn't announced (well, not that I've heard). I met him during the general. He a good person and has done as good job as possible in SC. If he wants it, I might go with him, but (and I am sorry if reality offends you) I'd like to hear how he plans to translate strong showings (particularly in our community) in South Carolina but no electoral votes into strong showings with electoral votes all around the country.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)In the other thread I objected to your projection of a world of shit onto me. You insisted I controlled the party and went into a long rant about Bill Clinton and the 1990s, without as much as asking me where I stood on any of those issues. You have no idea who I voted for in previous primaries (hint: none of them were Clintons), and you didn't care to ask. Then in the following post you accused me of attacking Sanders and his supporters when I said nothing of the kind nor thought it. At that point i quit reading.
I don't care who you or anyone else supported in the primary. That contest has been settled for months. What I think is unfortunate is that the DNC election has reignited those divisions. On that I do fault Sanders, not for nominating Ellison, whom I like very much (he is my congressman after all), but for Sanders continued divisive comments following the election. My suspicion is that we might not have seen the party people mentioned in the piece above stake out the positions they did absent Sanders' post-election recriminations.
Because of your recent posts to me, I did assume that your support of Ellison related to his endorsement by Sanders. Am I wrong about that?
Harrison has been going to state party committees and making his case for his election as DNC Chair. I read in a newspaper article that he was in recently in Texas at the same event Ellison attended. That certainly looks like a formal candidacy to me. He also has Jim Clyburn's endorsement, which used to carry a great deal of weight in the party (eg. Obama in 2008).
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)How am I supposed to take the suggestion that I, as a black man, only support Keith Ellision, who has been one of the few politicians to consistently stand up for black people who don't fit white folks' view of "good" black people, e.g., Michael Brown, BLM protestors blocking interstates, angry protestors in Ferguson, the NBPP at the polling station in Philly in 2008, etc. because he endorsed Sanders?
On the other hand, how am I supposed to take this most recent comment?
The answer is very well. It was articulate and I thought really honest. It might push some anti-Bernie lines that just aren't true, but I am more than willing to let that stuff lie because it just doesn't matter now when we have to get some direction together
We are not the villains we have been painting each other.
Thanks
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)And a billionaire GOP governor. It's Democratic Party is so impotent that Tea Party nutcase Mark Clayton won the DEMOCRATIC US Senate primary in 2012 with nothing but crossover votes.
Not surprisingly, the state party leaders who put Mr. Owen in a position where he even has a vote for DNC chair are unrivaled in ineptitude EXCEPT by a national party leadership that has lost both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court (barring an act of unprecedented political courage), and enough state governments that Republicans are on the cusp of being able to call a constitutional convention.
Could it be that a change is in order?
gulliver
(13,180 posts)I have yet to be too impressed with Ellison. I want someone who is funny and tough. Also, Granholm was governor of Michigan, outranking a mere Congressman by a mile.
oasis
(49,382 posts)Citizens United is here to stay. The Democratic Party can't put itself at a disadvantage in future elections.
Cha
(297,196 posts)#TeamPerez he has the qualifications, experience, intelligence, leadership & bilingual. He represents the people with a proven track record.
https://twitter.com/algiordano
Good points!
oasis
(49,382 posts)Thanks for the info.
Cha
(297,196 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)The more I read about his background and the work that he has down in both the Justice Department and the Labor Department, the more I'm inspired by him and his ability to lead the DNC in opposition to Trump.
Cha
(297,196 posts)Tina Herod ?@tina_herod · 5h5 hours ago
@AlGiordano #TeamPerez All the way. Great values and is a team builder
https://twitter.com/hashtag/TeamPerez?src=hash
Cha
(297,196 posts)#TeamPerez he has the qualifications, experience, intelligence, leadership & bilingual. He represents the people with a proven track record.
https://twitter.com/algiordano
Tom Watson Verified account
?@tomwatson
"the most important U.S. labor secretary since Frances Perkins" - great Tom Perez profile http://prospect.org/article/subtle-force-tom-perez
https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/809239536924524544
Gracias, Gothmog!
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)And During the primary attended a number of DFL events where he spoke. He didn't as much as mention his support for Bernie. He instead focused on voter turnout.
During the GE, he promoted Clinton at a number of events for volunteers.
I suppose it's possible he said some divisive things, but I never heard them.
That said, I don't have a position on DNC chair. I like both Perez and Ellison. If Ellison becomes chair, it means I lose him as my congressman.
brer cat
(24,562 posts)RedWedge
(618 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Hillary lost because she ran a poor campaign and was a weak candidate in the Rust Belt.
Comey and Putin played a role, but Sanders sure as hell didn't.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)RAFisher
(466 posts)Sadly she lost. I think some people still can't accept that Clinton had shortcoming. Instead they blame it on Sanders.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)My issue is the baggage, it's too bad
oasis
(49,382 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)This article from Perez has one of the main reasons why I am supporting Perez. I am an election law junkie and I have volunteered a great deal in voter protection efforts. During the Bush administration, the Civil Rights Section and the Voting Rights division of the Civil Rights section of the DOJ was destroyed by the bushies. Partisan hacks were placed in non partisan slots illegally including an idiot named Christian Adams who spearheaded the New Black Panther silliness.
AG Holder and Tom Perez rebuilt the Civil Rights section of the DOJ and the voting rights division. They did a great job and Perez was the lead of the Civil Rights division when he was promoted to Sec. of Labor. This is from Perez's article on why he is running https://mic.com/articles/162459/tom-perez-dnc-chair#.K1AO41GLd
Years later, I led the department's civil rights division as we pushed for progress across the country. We went toe to toe with Republican leaders in states like Texas who want to turn back the clock on voting rights; we stood up to rogue sheriffs like Joe Arpaio who want to immigrant-bait and immigrant-bash; we cracked down on police misconduct and held police departments accountable to their responsibility to uphold the Constitution while protecting communities; we worked aggressively to enforce laws protecting women's access to reproductive health services; and we fought for marriage equality in every state.
GOP voter suppression will be a major issue for the DNC and Perez is the best person to deal with this issue
Unfortunately, most of the Latino Politicians in the Democratic Party are a bit milquetoast and rather bland. The few that are interesting aren't exactly from the Clinton side of the party.
I really can't see how Tom Perez can energize the party and prepare us for the fight that is ahead. He's not a very interesting guy. He doesn't give great speeches. He's not super charismatic.
I just don't see how he can grow the party.
Keith impresses. He's a great speech-giver. Very emotional and reaches the key intonations one needs when speaking. He can definitely energize people.
After the failures of DWS and Kaine to produce victories; properly energize or rally the base around Democratic legislation; and grow the party, we need someone who can.
I'm fine if that's someone from the Clinton side of the party. But they would have to be interesting. Not Tom Perez. Maybe Cory Booker would be a better bet? Or Obama himself.
Cha
(297,196 posts)Judith Fardig
?@FardigJudith
.@LaborSec Tom Perez would be a breath of fresh air as #DNCChair. Delighted to be able to tell him in person. #TeamPerez
https://twitter.com/FardigJudith/status/809508398156816384/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)But we need someone loud and vocal.
Someone who will not hesitate to point out Republican bullshit.
Running a fair primary will also help.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)These allegations may hurt Ellison http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/311270-old-finance-woes-haunt-ellisons-dnc-bid
Ellison's critics in the DNC and some supporters of Labor secretary Tom Perez, the other top candidate, are pointing to the Minnesota Democrats past tax troubles, campaign finance violations and minor legal issues that once led to his drivers license being suspended as evidence that hes ill-equipped to lead the DNC.
Some of those instances date back to the 1990s. All of the issues have been rectified and were previously used in attacks against Ellison during his first run for House in 2006.
Why elect a DNC chair who has baggage?