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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn a rare rebuttal, CIA is pushing back
From the WSJ story
(snip)
Intelligence officials pushed back Sunday for the first time against Mr. Trumps criticism, a rare rebuttal against an American elected official.
Its concerning that intelligence on Russian actions related to the U.S. election is being dismissed out of hand as false or politically partisan, a U.S. intelligence official said in a written statement.
"The inclination to ignore such intelligence and impugn the integrity of U.S. intelligence officials is contrary to all that is sacred to national-security professionals who work day and night to protect this country.
U.S. intelligence agencies have rarely been at odds with the commander-in-chief, or an incoming president, over their assessment of a key American adversary. While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they werent the subject of such a public back and forth.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-blames-democrats-for-reports-of-russia-hacking-1481467907
cilla4progress
(24,802 posts)and he hasn't even taken office.
What a shitstorm.
Deep breathing.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)Mr. Evil
(2,865 posts)Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)DK504
(3,847 posts)Its 9:10 am here in NOLA...Perfect time to start.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He just may decide to force us all to follow in his footsteps, Dear Leader that he is.
We'll all be thinning our hair and styling it in absurd, cotton-candy colored comb-overs, and doing way too much coke or meth or whatever the hell they (sniff) have him on.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)IronLionZion
(45,666 posts)and doesn't even allow it in house. Melania has to go out to get a drink. Damn! I don't trust a president who can't/won't enjoy a good American beer or whiskey. It's un-American.
Hitler at least drank non-alcoholic German beer.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It was invented in pre-war Germany and spread like wildfire. They passed it around to the troops; it fueled the Blitzkrieg. It took years for the Brits to figure it out after finding it on a dead Nazi pilot.
Freeman0311
(25 posts)Between the FBI, CIA and this whole election bs we're getting set up but again.
As a progressive I don't trust the CIA or anything that comes out of thier politicized mouths...after the FBI setting us up like they did I'm running out of agency's that are trustworthy.
Now with Trump coming into office on a bed of lies (dividing the country so well) it is kinda of scary to think he will be guy directing the above agencies to do God knows what.
I'm sick of getting toyed with.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)FBI on the other hand has shown its partisan politics and that they have been compromised.
Freeman0311
(25 posts)The CIA is a political animal under each administration with a history of making up news, facts whatever they need to further thier nefarious agenda..how soon we forget about WMD's, torture, the drone killings of Americans and innocent civilians abroad.
They cannot be trusted regardless of which side they try and promote today because of the above.
I'll listen, but they'll have to go a long why for me to trust them..would have been nice of them to release this information when Hillary could have won versus after the fact.
That inaction alone speaks quite loudly I think.
tomp
(9,512 posts)my sentiments exactly.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)But you should be able to judge each action on their own merits. Don't trust them. That is your prerogative. But we KNEW of Russians involvement prior to November. Trump and his entourage were all paid and supported by Russia. Nothing about the election makes sense. Doesn't take much to deduce that shit ain't right.
So while the CIA is trying to point out some obvious shit, the FBI releases a nothing burger about clinton's email. So no. They are not the same.
Freeman0311
(25 posts)I must humbly disagree as both agencies didn't do what they were supposed to do to "Protect the Republic" when it mattered.
BOTH agencies only did what was politically expedient for them...the Republic's interest were not even considered by virtue of thier actions.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Ewwww....I got trumped on. We're done here. Bye bye.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mashablegif/status/780584131658936320/video/1
Freeman0311
(25 posts)When your inference is lacking.....resort to insults?
Not very progressive of you.
Let's work togther solving problems and getting the unity message out instead of flaming differences of opinions between people with the same goal.
Peace
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)In fact, it was the CIA intelligence reports that Ted Kennedy read that caused him to vote against the IWR. BushCo claimed WMD, the CIA does not. Matter of fact, most of your complaints were not CIA, but BushCo's dealings.
Freeman0311
(25 posts)To your point yes..but it goes a little further then that.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/michael-morell-bush-cheney-iraq-war
The CIA didn't stop the use of or misrepresentation of thier report to the point of letting an illegal war take shape.
Point of fact: once again..now..like then, they only come clean after the fact.
All I'm saying (in IMO not trying to say your wrong I'm right) we shouldn't kill the messenger, but we definitely need to remind ourselves of the messengers credibility and capacity to help spin false narratives.
We need to remember how the messenger has a proven capacity to come clean only after damage has been done...and rewarding that doesn't help prevent the next they could have rigged but zagged crisis.
We're progressives, not the tinfoil Bubba group..we verify, then trust before blindly parroting things because it fits OUR suspicions.
ShakeWell
(28 posts)...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Many people on this board have varied level of concerns about the over reach of our government sponsored world police (CIA, NSA, FBI, DHS). However, the fbi and cia have shown exemplary service to our nation over the years with many whom have given the ultimate sacrifice.
Have these departments caused more harm than good and how the organizations should be run is a discussion this country needs.
Yet, right now, I'll take any help we can get against this crapfest of an election which leads to Cheetolini.
Freeman0311
(25 posts)Cheetolini lmfao that's the best..I'm warning you right now I'm going to use it.
Well played sir or maam
wordpix
(18,652 posts)I give up if they vote this asswipe in
zonkers
(5,865 posts)the economic cost of this crisis.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,860 posts)pbmus
(12,422 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)NBachers
(17,191 posts)ecstatic
(32,798 posts)clusterfucks if I plan to make it through this with my sanity. What's the point of being aware if there isn't anything I can do to stop it?
I read that as trying to medicate daily.... I think I may have to do just that because meditation won't work for this clusterf.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)PJMcK
(22,074 posts)WomanWhoRoars
(175 posts)Please let this be the end of Trump
Jean-Jacques Roussea
(475 posts)LisaM
(27,863 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)It is what I am doing....
Call/email the White House
Call Attorneys General
Contact Reps...
Write letters to editors.
Contact broadcast media.
Join groups fighting the coup.
Contribute $$ if you can.
Post on social media.
Join protests, marches, strikes, boycotts.
any other type of civil disobedience. .
PROTEST any way possible...
Anything else you might think of...
THE SOUTH KOREANS JUST DID IT!!!!!!!!!!
BRAVO 대한민국 !!!
mnhtnbb
(31,418 posts)that he would finally flame out before he could hit and damage us all.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)The CIA is very good at pushing back against foreign nationals. Indeed, their forte is their ability to push back against foreign nationals.
If they really want to push back, they will find out what kind of blackmail Putin is holding over Trump's head---probably a sexual indiscretion caught on tape or video---and threaten to release it if Trump/Pence do not step down.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Profit. He is currently normalizing the idea that he an use the office to profit too. Next he'll be telling us the deals that enrich him are win-win for the country and his supporters won't feel like they have any choice but to believe him.
classof56
(5,376 posts)Not original with me, but does make some sort of sick sense as I contemplate the notion.
I am truly afraid of what he is bringing down upon us, and if the CIA can save us from this fate, I'll be grateful.
Getting to where words can't really express my fears. Glad I have DU to turn to.
Peace.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Northwest passage. Eastern Europe and Syria also given to Russia. Tarrifs to China and maybe a partnership with Russia to produce the goods instead. Africa? Screwing around with India and Pakistan? I don't think he'd leave much untouched unless he is reigned in quickly.
CrispyQ
(36,567 posts)I keep thinking, certainly someone with some authority will do something. We're running out of time.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)to step up and do something really major.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)Grand Oligarchs' Party = GOP, part of worldwide international oligarchs' party
Liberty Belle
(9,540 posts)(unless it's with a minor). My best would be if he's being blackmailed, it's financial crimes --maybe bribery of officials
spooky3
(34,528 posts)mopinko
(70,388 posts)they could be even more covert and sneaky and lean on him to turn electors, if they hurry.
i think the electors must be shown the evidence to the maximum extent possible. if we are able to govern ourselves at all, that will be enough.
this being the real world, get the right people to ask the right people to do the right thing in just the right way. if you get my drift. dont tell me they dont know who the weak links are. like, um, mich, pa, wis...
start w all the little podunk towns this snake oil show went through. i dont think the were looking for votes, i think they were looking for patsies and crooks to help them steal it. at 5 a day, in just the right counties, which, btw, paul manafort was pointing out right before the election, only needed 80k votes. votes which evaporate quickly in the light of day.
yeah, i wanna see THEIR emails.
and i want electors pictures all over the teevee, too. anonymous no more.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And, with this Congress, he's essentially immune to any consequence. You can't blackmail someone that literally cannot feel shame.
The best an American patriot can hope for is that they can find some connection between Russia and his closest associates (Jared, Ivanka, the Breitbart guy whose name I forget).
spooky3
(34,528 posts)Trump was very open about not only indiscretions but possible criminal assault, and enough people were unconcerned that he was elected anyway.
Unless there would be something involving a child I can't imagine what might be used to manipulate Trump at this point.
Much more likely to me (if Putin has anything to blackmail Trump with) seems to be financial entanglements and serious criminal behavior involving Russian agents.
treestar
(82,383 posts)we need to learn what Russian interests are. Would they do that? How would it benefit them? THere's an argument the Russians want a malleable, blackmail-able Trump in the office so they can conquer back all the old Soviet Republics without pushback from the US.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)13-year-old girl awhile back. (The plaintiff in the civil case, the erstwhile 13-year-old allegedly raped by Trump, reportedly settled out of court and is under a gag - npi - order now.)
Pedophiles supposedly never change their stripes and so I'm guessing if Trump did it once, he did it several times, one or more of which rapes may be on tape.
I feel very badly for all of Trump's various former victims but especially so for those who were under age and so completely at the mercy of a mericiless and remorseless sadistic psychopath.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)roamer65
(36,748 posts)Go get 'em!
TNNurse
(6,933 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)it's the "stupids" that voted for this who are gonna wield it's blows.
And their bigotry has been reinforced by MSSN - main stream sewage news.
spanone
(135,950 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)but the Pentagon. I remember the old line from basic training - Light 'em if ya got 'em - referring to a cigarette break. With Trump it'll be "Launch 'em if ya got 'em!"
lapfog_1
(29,243 posts)have already announced that they want to do away with the Dept of Energy.
That's because they have no clue what the DOE actually does. They think it has to do with renewables or something (DOE does have the NREL, but that is very minor).
harun
(11,348 posts)Chaos in other areas just provides more cheap labor, low inflation and profit opportunities.
Takket
(21,712 posts)Hello?????????? America??? Are you seeing this?? People should be filling the streets in protest!!!!!!!!!!!
onetexan
(13,081 posts)so the orange idiot and his minions who colluded with the Russians need to be charged and tried.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)mountain grammy
(26,676 posts)has been calling me every four days, but she thinks she's only calling once a week. She's distraught and calls me to talk her down and to laugh at stupid fake news, while we want to cry.
I'm so glad she calls, my husband is tired of listening to me.
montana_hazeleyes
(3,424 posts)to think of 90 year olds going through this! I'm so sorry. Hug your auntie for me. And you too.
mountain grammy
(26,676 posts)I just had my 69th birthday and marching on Washington on 1/21/17 for the second time in my life. My aunt says she wishes she could go with me. and I wish she could too.
Ligyron
(7,645 posts)It's just going to be sad to watch America die before I do.
But, the kids...
mountain grammy
(26,676 posts)OldRedneck
(1,397 posts)The US intell community told the Bush junta there were no WMD. However, senior members of the Bush crowd believed otherwise -- Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney. They were seduced by Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi ex-patriate living in luxury on the Riveria and feeding lies and bullshit to Cheney. DIA and CIA both told the White House to drop Chalabi like a bad habit. However, policy people (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) love "defectors" and ex-pats. The intell people don't trust them.
Cheney cherry-picked information from the CIA. Colin Powell was forced to make his bullshit presentation before the UN. Later, Powell would describe that presentation as the low point in his career.
The intell people were right. The policy shitheads had made up their minds and did not want to be confused with facts.
History repeats itself.
ReverendHeretic
(45 posts)Whose sole job was to manufacture the result.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)message out that there were no WMD and the Bush admin was going into Iraq anyway. Again we can't seem to shake this country up to understand what's at stake here. We've simply been had. We should be out in the street demanding recounts, demanding thorough investigations and hearings. I fear we're going to be in great danger as of Jan.20. What say you?
mercuryblues
(14,562 posts)The Bush administration cherry picked the intelligence to support the war.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/leadup-iraq-war-timeline
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)mercuryblues
(14,562 posts)I believe him on that. Cheney is the one who originally said he said that. He has admitted larger blunders, but denies that.
Tenet scrub mentions of WMD's out of 2 of Bush's speeches. Then came the SOTU address. Even then the CIA did not come out and publically say differently. They are with the trump/Russia connection.
The white house cherry picked the information to suit their needs. Good intelligence was ignored by the WH. Much of the intelligence from Chalabi AKA curveball came through the Pentagon and not the CIA, who had labeled him as unreliable. When Joe Wilson countered this information his wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA agent. That sent a very clear message to the CIA to get on board or lose more agents and networks. Tenet got on the war train. It might have been the caboose but he was on it, none the less.
After reading draft of Powell's speech, CIA agent emails his superior with concerns about "the validity of the information based on 'CURVE BALL.'" Noting he's the only US agent to have ever met Curveball (who was hung over at the time), the agent asks: "We sure didn't give much credence to this report when it came out. Why now?" Deputy head of CIA's Iraqi Task Force responds: "Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curveball said or didn't say the Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curveball knows what he's talking about." [Date the public knew: 7/9/04]
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/leadup-iraq-war-timeline
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)proessinal vetting by the CIA and taking it straight to the White 's Iraq Working Group.
mercuryblues
(14,562 posts)Then Cheney and Bush blamed the bad information on the CIA. Even then the CIA did not come out and say at the time "oh no we di'int." They knew much of the intelligence came from unreliable sources that they had nothing to do with. For them to come out and say Yes, Russia did this and own it so publically means they are sure. It also means they aren't telling us everything.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I knew that the intel community had it right about the WMD; I just couldn't remember all the details (Chalabi for example). The Iraq war was what we got as a result of intel being ignored or manipulated by Cheney et al.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)rocket scientist, called "the dumbest fucking guy on the planet."
blue neen
(12,335 posts)It's very frightening.
Nitram
(22,971 posts)...they respect Trump. A president-elect that doesn't take advice from the professionals in the intelligence community that serve him its playing with fire.
FraDon
(519 posts)not to fuck with the Agency.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,034 posts)flamingdem
(39,340 posts)Trump is toast!
Go CIA!! hahahaha never thought I'd say or think that
spooky3
(34,528 posts)Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they werent the subject of such a public back and forth." She said the intelligence community was not wrong; their work was misrepresented to Congress by the Bush administration.
I suppose if you took a Nixonian approach to the Wall Street Journal's wording, technically the article does not say that the intelligence officials' work "proved wrong" but that is the implication, by drawing a parallel between that situation and the present one.
SunSeeker
(51,811 posts)Yes, the Bush administration's assessment was wrong, not the CIA's. The CIA's intelligence did not confirm WMDs.
The CIA never said there were WMDs in Iraq.
On Tuesday night, former CIA Deputy Director and Bushs intelligence briefer Michael Morell appeared on MSNBCs Hardball, where he, under an amount of good cable news duress, admitted that the administration intentionally misrepresented intelligence.
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence_was_a_lie/
Cha
(298,074 posts)No.
The CIA never said there were WMDs in Iraq.
The thing is, the Iraq War was not the result of an intelligence goof rather, the countrys top office systematically misled the public about Iraqs nonexistent WMD program, as well as Saddam Husseins link to Al Qaeda.
On Tuesday night, former CIA Deputy Director and Bushs intelligence briefer Michael Morell appeared on MSNBCs Hardball, where he, under an amount of good cable news duress, admitted that the administration intentionally misrepresented intelligence.
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence
turnip head needs to call out bush2 on this.
iluvtennis
(19,912 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,511 posts)They say Presidents have limits on what they are permitted to do
by the national security establishment
This point of friction will not go away easily
alfredo
(60,082 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)It's going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooong four years.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)The only question is how badly this will end. For Don the Con, that is...
Duppers
(28,134 posts)And the FBI has the gall to disagree with the CIA. Wow.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and that he already knows all they know and more.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)That Hitler was crazy enough to attack Russia and the Uk at the same time, he had those agents shot. Hisotry does nto repeat, but damn it rhymes.
WheelWalker
(8,958 posts)Cha
(298,074 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)malthaussen
(17,241 posts)... but they are in the right on this one. Simply put, what kind of CEO disparages his own company?
-- Mal
stevepal
(109 posts)I'm not sure I agree with this statement in the Wall Street Journal article:
"While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they werent the subject of such a public back and forth."
It seems I remember that Cheney had a little something to do with which analysts were listened to and which weren't. In fact, wasn't the CIA at odds IN GENERAL to Cheney's bullet points? Maybe my memory is deceiving me. When I read so many conflicting opinions about the same subject, I begin to distrust my memory of what happened yesterday, much less a decade ago.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)and then blew it up with Colin Powell at UN, getting NYT to publish Cheney's info, etc.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)I believe that cherry picked intel from several sources and mixed it up with info from Ahmed Chalabi, which was then fed to Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, etc.
dmr
(28,364 posts)he wasn't getting the info he wanted.
I remember reading at the time that it was almost unheard of for so many VP visits. He hounded them for 'evidence'.
Also remember how he planted info with Judy Miller, then go on the Sunday talk shows and comment about what was being reported in the New York Times.
Arghhh
why isn't he dead yet?
treestar
(82,383 posts)when we find we are rooting for the CIA.
Big_K
(237 posts)Note: I am NOT advocating any harm in this post. It's a joke, y'all.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)J. Edgar Hoover himself virulently opposed the creation of the CIA. Why? Because he jealously guarded his status as America's Red-Baiter-In-Chief. And he was of the Joe McCarthy view that the biggest threat to the U.S. came from within the country - including from within the U.S. government. Contrast this to the CIA, which from the beginning was all about undermining the Soviets and their allies - and foreign governments who dared to oppose the U.S. in general...in other words, the CIA's jurisdiction was explicitly international (though they of course violated that rule for decades, as exposed by the post-Watergate Congressional investigations in the 1970s...).
Many have argued that the mutual suspicion and distrust and petty rivalries between the CIA and the FBI directly led to the failure to prevent 9/11. Looks like they still hate each other's guts. Fasten your seat-belts, folks, because things are about to get very, very unpredictable...
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)In this fight, I don't know who the fuck I'm supposed to root for. Can they both lose? Is that an option? I want that option.
These people used a vaccination program in Pakistan to search for Bin Laden. The blowback from that is KILLING people. Children. Dying of Polio. We'll never know the full death toll.
So yeah, fun. Hope they destroy each other. May there be no winner.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Of Assauge and wikileaks information was delivered and was not verified. I do no t trust the Russians nor wikileaks to deliver th e truth. This needs to be investigated to the fullest, too much Russian connections by candidates, probably allowed themselves to bev Putin's puppets.
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)CIA did not like how Trump tried to ridicule their findings. The current employees are basically under threat of Trump's administration. Let's hope they'll fight for their survival by burrying trump.