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Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:20 AM

I loved Fidel

He was a great neighbor and he stood up to the global bully
Rest my brother - we'll judge the education level, the healthcare achievements and your role in destroying apartheid in Africa. Thanks for the doctors, nurses, scholarships and your genuine desire for hemispheric independence. You were loved.

I am watching BBC and local TV for objective coverage.

131 replies, 7836 views

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Arrow 131 replies Author Time Post
Reply I loved Fidel (Original post)
malaise Nov 2016 OP
Riftaxe Nov 2016 #1
malaise Nov 2016 #2
Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #11
malaise Nov 2016 #12
dsc Nov 2016 #102
Laffy Kat Nov 2016 #109
Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #34
malaise Nov 2016 #38
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #104
malaise Nov 2016 #110
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #112
Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #3
malaise Nov 2016 #4
Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #6
Dem2 Nov 2016 #95
secondwind Nov 2016 #8
ronnie624 Nov 2016 #71
malaise Nov 2016 #98
JI7 Nov 2016 #64
malaise Nov 2016 #68
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #105
malaise Nov 2016 #111
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #113
LineLineReply 1
50 Shades Of Blue Nov 2016 #117
Post removed Nov 2016 #5
secondwind Nov 2016 #7
Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #18
2naSalit Nov 2016 #69
flamingdem Nov 2016 #89
pangaia Nov 2016 #107
burrowowl Nov 2016 #125
hack89 Nov 2016 #9
secondwind Nov 2016 #10
mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #24
NCTraveler Nov 2016 #33
mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #53
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #106
Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #27
tecelote Nov 2016 #13
malaise Nov 2016 #16
secondwind Nov 2016 #14
Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #28
malaise Nov 2016 #85
Sunsky Nov 2016 #15
malaise Nov 2016 #20
whathehell Nov 2016 #77
denbot Nov 2016 #130
Bad Dog Nov 2016 #17
malaise Nov 2016 #21
MyNameGoesHere Nov 2016 #19
malaise Nov 2016 #22
Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #29
whathehell Nov 2016 #82
Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2016 #23
mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #25
HerrKarlMarx Nov 2016 #26
Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #30
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2016 #51
kentuck Nov 2016 #31
burrowowl Nov 2016 #126
Equinox Moon Nov 2016 #32
Elmergantry Nov 2016 #35
malaise Nov 2016 #37
Equinox Moon Nov 2016 #41
malaise Nov 2016 #44
HAB911 Nov 2016 #36
malaise Nov 2016 #39
HAB911 Nov 2016 #40
oberliner Nov 2016 #42
HAB911 Nov 2016 #43
malaise Nov 2016 #46
oberliner Nov 2016 #47
malaise Nov 2016 #49
oberliner Nov 2016 #50
OneBlueDotBama Nov 2016 #65
malaise Nov 2016 #66
DFW Nov 2016 #45
ileus Nov 2016 #48
Zen Democrat Nov 2016 #55
Adrahil Nov 2016 #52
stonecutter357 Nov 2016 #54
Siwsan Nov 2016 #56
malaise Nov 2016 #59
Siwsan Nov 2016 #60
malaise Nov 2016 #63
Statistical Nov 2016 #57
cabot Nov 2016 #58
malaise Nov 2016 #62
cwydro Nov 2016 #61
malaise Nov 2016 #116
brooklynite Nov 2016 #67
whathehell Nov 2016 #84
brooklynite Nov 2016 #108
whathehell Nov 2016 #118
brooklynite Nov 2016 #123
name not needed Nov 2016 #70
tenderfoot Nov 2016 #72
roamer65 Nov 2016 #73
nini Nov 2016 #74
sarisataka Nov 2016 #75
heaven05 Nov 2016 #76
Dreamer Tatum Nov 2016 #78
Uponthegears Nov 2016 #79
Arazi Nov 2016 #80
flamingdem Nov 2016 #90
cilla4progress Nov 2016 #81
malaise Nov 2016 #92
countryjake Nov 2016 #96
malaise Nov 2016 #97
countryjake Nov 2016 #99
malaise Nov 2016 #101
Adrahil Nov 2016 #83
rusty fender Nov 2016 #86
malaise Nov 2016 #87
JI7 Nov 2016 #100
flamingdem Nov 2016 #88
malaise Nov 2016 #91
countryjake Nov 2016 #93
malaise Nov 2016 #94
guillaumeb Nov 2016 #103
malaise Nov 2016 #114
LittleBlue Nov 2016 #115
madinmaryland Nov 2016 #119
malaise Nov 2016 #120
madinmaryland Nov 2016 #121
malaise Nov 2016 #122
EX500rider Nov 2016 #124
malaise Nov 2016 #128
SMC22307 Nov 2016 #127
malaise Nov 2016 #129
melman Nov 2016 #131

Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:03 AM

1. Those who care about Human Rights despised him

I imagine in your mind you think you have a clue about the atrocities...in the end your ignorance changes not a thing, mourn if you want, just do not expect people to look you in the eye if you brag about it.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:19 AM

2. I'm trying not to laugh

Examine US governments' atrocities at home and across the planet then get back to me.

I loved Fidel - that simple.

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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:52 AM

11. So did the non-racist, non-oligarchal Cubans.

As someone who goes frequently to Cuba, has lived and worked there, has relatives there has told us, he used to tool around Cuba in his jeep with the top down, and people greeted him everywhere he went, young, and old.

Clearly there are some right-wingers who have bought every shred of propaganda ever dreamed up by rabid people determined to mold public perception about what happened in Cuba after the people's revolution.

People might have learned differently if they had simply dared to go to Cuba through a third country, like Mexico, etc. It surely wasn't Cuba keeping them out, was it?

Thank you, malaise.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:56 AM

12. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:03 PM

102. as long as they weren't gay

then not so much.

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Response to dsc (Reply #102)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:13 PM

109. This. nt

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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:00 AM

34. "I loved Fidel - that simple." Love is irrational. You have placed yourself outside of reason.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:17 AM

38. You're wrong

It's perfectly rational - you may not agree with me and that is your right.

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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:48 PM

104. But that is different, Malaise.

US atrocities are motivated by the very best of intentions.
Well, that is how history tells it.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #104)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:13 PM

110. Read

interests not intentions

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Response to malaise (Reply #110)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:17 PM

112. And remember that all the world is considered a US area of vital interest. eom

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:22 AM

3. favouring one evil over another is fucked up

 

I love how people force everything into binary thought.

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Response to Grey Lemercier (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:30 AM

4. Cuba has the best educated and healthiest population in our hemisphere

Cuba is a friend to Jamaica.
Cuba embarrassed the world over ebola.
You won't change my mind on that.
Thank you Fidel

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:42 AM

6. ludicrous

 

5 myths about Cuba

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/5-myths-about-cuba/2016/03/25/44f0b3e2-f21e-11e5-89c3-a647fcce95e0_story.html?client=ms-android-samsung


They oppressed blacks, gays for decades as well. BTW, I am half Bajan, so am aware of inherent West Indian oppression of LGBTQ, and Jamaica is the most violently homophobic country in the western hemisphere. Truly horrific. So in that sense, Cuba and Yard have common cause.

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Response to Grey Lemercier (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:39 PM

95. Thank you

I appreciate the level headed logic that you bring to DU.

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:51 AM

8. BFD, they can't do anything with that education. They can hardly EAT. They cannot own their own

businesses, except for just a little bit of MATTRESS REPAIRING, etc., but God forbid you also want to sell mattresses... nope, you aren't allowed to. You can only be a tiny cog in a big machine, heaven forbid you actually become SUCCESSFUL.

I visited a Temple there, a man followed us there, and he sat outside the door of the office where we were visiting...we were followed everywhere, even to the airport

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Response to secondwind (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:07 PM

71. "Owning a business" has nothing to do with freedom.

Economic activity is very strictly limited by the laws of physics. There is no freedom in this regard, if the goal is to provide goods and services to everyone.

'Freedom' refers to political, intellectual and artistic pursuits, not a primitive, base desire to scarf up more than one needs.

People have been programmed to believe such incredible nonsense, including perpetual motion.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #71)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:58 PM

98. Well said

Capitalist propaganda is good

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:36 AM

64. israel has a good education system also

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Response to JI7 (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:48 AM

68. True n/t

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Response to JI7 (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:48 PM

105. As long as the student is..................?

Well, you know.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #105)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:15 PM

111. Not a...

wink wink

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Response to malaise (Reply #111)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:18 PM

113. True, not a .........eom

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Response to Grey Lemercier (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:00 PM

117. 1

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Response to malaise (Original post)


Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:47 AM

7. His people would disagree with you, malaise. Big time.. He separated families, ripped children from

their parents' arms and shipped them off to the U.S.

One of those children is a friend of mine.. I doubt she sees him in the same light. She lived with three different families until the day came when her parents were "allowed" to leave Cuba. Her mother's ring was taken from her finger before she could get on a plane.

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Response to secondwind (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:10 AM

18. Are you unware it was the CIA who created that rumor which got the middle & upper class parents,

terrified that their children would be put in camps, or sent to the Soviet Union, etc., etc., and raced to throw them on airplanes to the US, and the entire colossal stunt was called "Operation Peter Pan?"

By the way, the children "left behind" in Cuba were NOT put in camps or sent to "Soviet Russia." Surprise!

Spend some time finding out about the subject first, then talk about the event from an informed foundation.

Excerpt from:
The Bay of Pigs and the CIA
By Juan Carlos Rodríguez

Page 55 | Legal Custody of Children

Operation Peter Pan began to take shape in Washington in mid-1960. (It was called that because Peter Pan had taken the three darling children away to Never-Never Land.) The name was sadly ironic: for many of those children who were sent out of Cuba, the United States would be a land from which they would never, never return home. The operation formed part of the arsenal used to psychologically soften up the Cuban people. With it, the Propaganda Section in Quarters Eye decided to unleash a propaganda campaign to make ordinary Cubans believe that, under a communist government, children - like the land, industries, stores and housing - would become the property of the state. If that happened, parents would lose legal custody of their children.

The CIA experts were confident that, if they managed to sow that doubt in some of the people, the fear would gather momentum and could lead to the exodus of thousands of children, split up families and thus undermine the families' support of the government. Undoubtedly, it would be a most effective destabilizing measure.

The first phase of the operation consisted of having the radio station carry a "news" bulletin that would alarm the people and be spread by word of mouth. Therefore, one October night in 1960, Radio Swan made its first reference to this subject in its 8:00 news broadcast:
"Cuban mothers, don't let them take your children away! The Revolutionary Government will take them away from you when they turn five and will keep them until they are 18. By that time, they will be materialist monsters."


During the following months, over and over again, the station would rebroadcast that false "news item" about children being taken away from their parents. In December 1960, the CIA experts felt that the idea had taken root on the island and decided to go on to the next phase, which would split Cuban families and finally cause some of them to oppose the government. That would guarantee solid support for the invaders. Under apparently legal cover, using the services of the Catholic Church, the children's exodus began. Operation Peter Pan was carried out under a religious cloak as "humanitarian assistance" provided by the Catholic Services Bureau in Florida. Its main protagonist, who allowed himself to be used as a figurehead, was Monsignor Bryan O. Walsh.

More:
http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/pedro.htm


[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
December 16, 2011
The CIA, Cuba and Operation Peter Pan

by Nelson P. Valdes - Saul Landau

On November 19, 2011 NPR broadcast “Children Of Cuba Remember: Their Flight To America.” Reporter Greg Allen claimed the 1960-62 journey from Cuba to the United States of 14,000 plus Cuban children “was made possible because of a deal a priest in the Miami diocese (Father Bryan Walsh) … worked out with the US State Department. The agreement allowed him to sign visa waivers for children 16 or under.” Allen then interviewed several right-of-center Cuban Americans to offer “objective” perspective on the facts surrounding Operation Peter Pan.

Curiously, Allen omitted the CIA from his report, although ample evidence shows the Agency in the early 1960s conspired with the Church to spirit kids out of Cuba.

Once inside the nurturing borders of the greatest country in the world “Pedro Pan kids have done well,” Allen concluded, without explaining what “well” means. Now adult Pedro Pan kids remain “firmly opposed to any normalization of relations with the Castro regime, the regime that was responsible for breaking up their families and forcing them from their homeland.”

NPR staff might have discovered a more complex and sinister story – had they looked. The CIA refuses to release Peter Pan documents, but abundant testimony shows the Agency forging documents and spreading lies, with Father Walsh and the regional Catholic hierarchy. Their goal: separate elite children from parents (a Cuban brain drain) and generate political instability.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/16/the-cia-cuba-and-operation-peter-pan/


ETC.






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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:50 AM

69. ...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:00 PM

89. Excellent information

I did not know the extent of that, wow.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:56 PM

107. Brava!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:35 PM

125. Right on!

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:51 AM

9. Only kings and dictators rule for 60 years

I never saw him wearing a crown.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:51 AM

10. Here's some objectivity: he is worth just short of A BILLION. while his country starved...

Give me a break!

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Response to secondwind (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:20 AM

24. Mitch McConnell is worth millions and some people in the mountains of

Last edited Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Kentucky are starving. These are people who sent him to Congress and he could care less about them as long as he can be vengeful against those who get in his way.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:56 AM

33. And you love McConnell for it?

 

Lots of justification going on from all sides in order to paint some form of absolute picture of him.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #33)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:59 AM

53. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. My point is that

he amasses a fortune while his constituents starve.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:49 PM

106. But they are "free" to starve. eom

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Response to secondwind (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:30 AM

27. Someone already tried to plant that "wisdom" from Forbes years ago, and it wasn't true then, either.

Right wingers are going to continue to suck up the propaganda, and everyone else will go to the trouble of finding out the truth for him/herself, if he/she has a functioning brain, and moral sense.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:58 AM

13. I don't know much about Castro...

but it seems to me that many here are hypocrites considering our own countries role in the Americas.

What I do know is that I have had acquaintances who defended him. I respect their opinions.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:08 AM

16. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Only propaganda must be spread
Very good coverage on local radio and TV and BBC. They're playing a Manley interview on Fidel right now.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:00 AM

14. My dear Malaise, while healthcare is available to all, it is not that simple.. In Cuba,

athletes, actors, and foreigners, COME FIRST.

A year of so ago, some Cuban athletes found themselves in the Dominican Republic, and they CRIED when they saw the abundance of everything at a local mall.

THEY CRIED.

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Response to secondwind (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:31 AM

28. Say, do you have a link to a truthful source about that tragic sob-fest breakdown at a mall?

Have never heard that one, and I've heard some real crappola.

Thanks for your efforts.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #28)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:38 PM

85. ROFL

I tell you - and we talk about brainwashed ReTHUGs.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:07 AM

15. I agree

As a Caribbean American I have a different view of Fidel. Some of my family members and friends have received their medical degrees in Cuba. We've always had good a relationship with the Cubans. I don't love or hate Fidel. He played his part in history and there will be a lot to critique and to admire.
Let's not forget the atrocities committed in the name of democracy. Let's not forget that we live in a country where some people have more rights than others (regardless of legality); where some are treated less than human and are being unjustly murdered by those who are supposed to protect us, with no repercussions. Let's work on getting us better before we go on trying to instill whatever this is unto others.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:14 AM

20. Good post

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:53 PM

77. Sounds good..

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:39 AM

130. OK this

He was less of a monster then many of his distractor's.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:10 AM

17. Castro was a lot better than what he replaced.

James Woods has a very telling line in Salvador, basically America doesn't care about human rights abuses as long as the perpetrators aren't communist. Which is why they aided Pinochet's coup in Chili and said nothing about the 'disappearances' that followed. It's also why we heard nothing about Saddam Hussein's brutality while he was at war with Iran. The human rights abuses in Honduras are shocking but because they swell the coffers of US companies like Chiquita they're barely mentioned. Even when US companies overthrew the democratically elected government the silence was deafening.

Churchill was pretty dictatorial during WW2, when you're fighting fascist imperialists there's very little time for such niceties. We only had to deal with fascist aggression for six years, Castro has had to contend with it ever since the revolution.

Castro was far from perfect but he was a damn sight better than America's fascist puppets throughout the region.

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Response to Bad Dog (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:15 AM

21. The Guardian had a recent report on Churchill's coup in then

British Guiana (Guyana).

Good post

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:13 AM

19. It is simple.

Those who love whorehouses, casinos, and hotels where they were waited on hand and foot by brown people hate Castro. Everyone else had an open mind. But then our government began an over 50 year propaganda to train ignorant youth to hate something no one even gives a shit about.

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Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:15 AM

22. Yes indeed

Truth will out

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Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:40 AM

29. The US Navy used to use Cuba as a Rest and Relaxation port. Really whooped it up for a while!

Here's a website which has been around a long time, containing literature published in the 1950's to inform US Americans planning to go to Cuba before the Revolution, suggesting places to go, things to see, etc.

It shows what people did think of Cuba under Batista, just as you posted:

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/%21entertain.html

Thank you, by the way.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:10 PM

82. Thanks for this..

It's a real eye-opener...It seems I've heard Battista's Cuba referred to as a "floating whorehouse". This gives credence to the misery and degradation many if not most Cubans had to endure.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:20 AM

23. He was an authoritarian dictator with little respect for human rights

He was not the Hitler or Stalin of the Caribbean that some people painted him to be, but he was not a particularly nice guy. A lot of people suffered and even died under his reign and I can't say I'm particularly sad to see him go, even though his legacy was not quite as dark as some claimed and our own involvement was not blameless either.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:23 AM

25. Sounds like what Donald Drumpf and the blameless media have

created for us.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:26 AM

26. His greatest crime was overthrowing Batista

 

Batista was a brutal dictator who murdered tens of thousands of his people and imprisoned and tortured many more. Yet this was perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the US government for two reasons. First, his brutality was carried out not in the name of communism but anti-communism. Second, he invited US investments, and by the end of his reign the majority of Cuban resources were owned by American companies.

Castro visited the US in 1959 in the hopes of establishing a friendly relationship with the US, but Eisenhower would have nothing to do with it. His great crime? Overthrowing Batista. The worst offense in the eyes of American foreign policy is interfering with American business interests abroad. Castro has been vilified ever since, and it is what then drove him to seek a friendship with the Soviet Union instead.

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Response to HerrKarlMarx (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:42 AM

30. 2 wrongs do not make a right

 

Both Batista and Castro were brutal, murderous dictators. Sorry, you cannot unspin facts.

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Response to HerrKarlMarx (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:45 AM

51. A wiser president would have at least tried to co opt him.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:43 AM

31. Our CIA supplied weapons to Castro...

He visited New York as an ally of the US.

But he refused to be a puppet of the US after Batista was over-thrown. He was isolated by the US Government.

Batista was a brutal dictator, much worse than Castro. He and a few land owners ruled Cuba until Castro took power.

Most of the landowners and families fled to south Florida, around Miami. Their ancestors live there today.

America has been exposed to too much propaganda to judge Fidel fairly, in my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:41 PM

126. Also enabled Posada and his buddy

to bomb a Cuban airliner with 73 people aboard.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:49 AM

32. Couldn't sleep, so listened to NPR, VERY early

They had on several people talking about Fidel. It was candid and impromptu. It was the first time I had heard about Fidel from non-propaganda views. One aspect of the dialog that stood out for me was what Bernie had highlighted in his campaign regarding universal health care. This poor country showed the world that universal health care could be implemented and sustained.

In stark contrast of course is America, wealthiest nation, is getting further and further from universal health care. The repubs are bent on privatizing Medicare. How odd a contrast between these two countries.

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Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #32)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:15 AM

35. Yeah healthcare, education, social programs etc etc

 

Are so good in Cuba that people in the US are taking to rafts to try to get in.

Tyrant. Murderer. Good riddance.

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Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #32)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:16 AM

37. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Only anti-Fidel propaganda is wanted
I loved him.

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Response to malaise (Reply #37)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:35 AM

41. It was an odd comment from "Elmergantry" to my comment

I would say to "Elmergantry" it is okay to appreciate and recognize impressive aspects of people and government rule in this case. One could do the same with the US. Don't get me started about Pres. O's drone wars.

Thanks for the "opposition" thread Malaise.

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Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #41)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:59 AM

44. Precisely

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:16 AM

36. His second GREATEST CRIME

was allowing freaks like the Cruz family get out alive. Marco tried to fool us that the freak Rubios escaped because of Castro but that was a lie. Now they are here with their rightwing shit.

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #36)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:20 AM

39. ROFL

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Response to malaise (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:24 AM

40. These almost-rightwingers are pissed

because he didn't want his island to be the Caribbean Las Vegas complete with the mafia. fuckem

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:48 AM

42. Freedom of expression and assembly?

 

Who needs it, right?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:58 AM

43. They (cuban runners) have ruined our country

A letter I wrote to Rubio when he and Tehran Tom Cotton became traitors to our country:

Although I signed one of the many on-line responses to your involvement in Tom Cotton's letter to Iran, the more time has passed, the more I feel that was not nearly enough.

Living in Tampa since 1974 has provided a totally immersive experience in wonderful Cuban culture and people. I've worked with and lived beside many wonderful Americans of Cuban descent over the years. The Cuban culture has thrived in Tampa for a hundred years.

But this Tampa culture is not the neo-Cuban culture from which you come, and parenthetically that of another very similar to you, Ted Cruz. The two of you have in a few short years made me come to see the neo-immigrant Cubans of South Florida as an extremely distasteful lot.

I know neither of your families ran from Castro, even though you attempted to infer or claim so, having left Cuba prior to the revolution. Regardless, you and Sen. Cruz and all the neo-immigrant Cubans of South Florida have so skewed MY country's politics to the right, with simple and singlemindedness, it can hardly be recognized.

This letter to Iran is just the final straw, right behind your position of anti-science climate change denial.

You may feel this is your country, I no longer do. My fervent hope is President Obama opening up relations with Cuba, might in the near future afford you, and Sen. Cruz, the opportunity to return to your homeland and do whatever it is you want with it. Being a left-leaning Democrat, statements like this are anathema to me, but this is what YOU have brought me to. There is no expectation of changing your opinion or course, but it's important you know these feelings are out here, if you don't already.

I'm sorry for both of us, because you disappoint me deeply.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:21 AM

46. Not the Palestinians

in fact they don't even need their land

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Response to malaise (Reply #46)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:24 AM

47. Castro's treatment of the Cuban people was similar to the Israeli treatment of Palestinians

 

If that is the point you are making, I agree with you.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:37 AM

49. Huh?

Look discuss Chile, Guatamala, Nicaragua, Argentina and their US backed military juntas and dictators.
Fidel was a baby to those monsters.

What Fidel did for healthcare and education have no equal in this hemisphere.

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Response to malaise (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:43 AM

50. You seemed to be making a comparison to the Palestinians

 

What was that comment in reference to?

In terms of healthcare and education, it is true that dictators with absolute power can often achieve the things they want to achieve.

That doesn't mean that freedom of expression and assembly aren't critical values to fight for.

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Response to malaise (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:43 AM

65. United Fruit Company

Dole, Chiquita Brands International.

I wonder if many know where the term "Banana Republic" references.

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Response to OneBlueDotBama (Reply #65)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:45 AM

66. Hehehehehhe

Yah think??

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:14 AM

45. When I was there, the locals' opinions were divided

The government people thought he was wonderful. They could do what they wanted, could travel abroad (my invitation was arranged by a Cuban government official I met in London), ate in the island's best restaurants. In between official activities, they recommended, much to my surprise, that I take a stroll "on my own" through the old town of Havana, and take in the sights.

On my own, right. I was followed, of course. They didn't even try to be subtle. One of my DGI "escorts" even complimented me on my Spanish. I was approached by one kid, maybe 16 or 17, and he poured out his hate for the government, He said a family member was a diabetic and got care packages including insulin sent by relatives in Miami, except that the packages were opened by the government, and anything of use was removed. He asked me if I would buy him a pocket calculator in the hard currency shop. I checked to make sure I wouldn't be doing anything illegal, and when it turned out to be OK, I went to the hard currency shop and got him an $8 pocket calculator. You'd think I had just bought him a first class ticket to Miami and a 5,000 square foot villa to live in when he got there. I guess he was the first one on his block, or wherever it was he lived.

One thing that has been commented on heavily here, and I did NOT notice, was the racial divide. Maybe the reports are true, maybe not, I just was too well insulated find out. The kid mentioned above was black, and my DGI escorts were white or mixed. My government contacts and their chauffeurs were all of European origin except their division boss, who was black. So I have no comment one way or the other on the local race issue.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:28 AM

48. He hated America, that's all it should take for us to love him.

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Response to ileus (Reply #48)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:00 AM

55. Who hated first? He ran United Fruit and the mafia out of Cuba. United Fruit was Dulles's baby.

The mafia also came to be Dulles's baby. The CIA hated Castro, and Castro hated the CIA. Castro outlived his enemies in the CIA, but now he's gone, and they are all dead. Such is life.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:46 AM

52. I hope he rots on hell, frankly...

 

The OP very nicely ignore the thousands upon thousnds of people "Fidel" totud and imprisoned in the name of his "revolution." Fuck Fidel. I hope his death means a new age for people... a DEMOCRATIC Socialist future.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:00 AM

54. what cenobites do you think he will Choose to be?

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:00 AM

56. I have to admit, Malaise, the news of his death actually makes me kind of sad

Maybe because I always saw him as a fierce revolutionary, and coming from a country that was founded by fierce revolutionaries, I just don't see that as necessarily being a bad thing.

He was always presented at the big "Bogey Man", just a short stretch of water from Florida, but that just never range true, to me. I actually felt great joy when President Obama moved to normalize the relationship between the US and Cuba. It is a place I've always thought would be a wonderful place to visit, and hopefully I will.

So, RIP, Fidel.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #56)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:15 AM

59. Nice post

By the way Canadian TV CBC has great coverage as well

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Response to malaise (Reply #59)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:29 AM

60. The CBC and BBC have become my new 'go to' news sources

I'm glad I can get them, both.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #60)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:35 AM

63. Same here

Thankfully

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:01 AM

57. His thousands of victims are comforted by your love of a brutal fascist.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:15 AM

58. Love/Hate - both are simplistic

The man did some great things - advancing education for his citizens, top-notch health care, providing doctors and nurses to countries around the world. He also did some horrible things - he persecuted a lot of artists such as Reinaldo Arenas, who was one among many.

I've been to Cuba. Being in Havana is like seeing an old whore who used to be beautiful but has been worn down by time and neglect. It's sad because it is a gorgeous city.

I don't think it is wise to celebrate his death - like I said, he did some great things. But let's not act like he was a saint simply because he hated the US.

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Response to cabot (Reply #58)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:34 AM

62. Diego Maradona on Fidel

http://www.goal.com/en/news/585/argentina/2016/11/26/29908422/fidel-castro-the-man-who-saved-diego-maradonas-life?ICID=HP_HN_HP_RI_1_3
<snip>
Maradona met Castro and was amazed by his tales, thereafter returning several times to the Caribbean island. He would take football shirts to the president as gifts.

It was not until after Maradona retired, however, that the pair’s relationship reached its strongest point. The Argentine great was in a dreadful state due to his problems with drugs and needed hospitalisation to rehabilitate. Castro saw the opportunity for the Cuban health service – which had more qualified doctors than the whole of Africa – to step in and made ‘La Pedrera’ clinic available to for his friend's use.

This proved to be the beginning of Maradona’s recovery, and those close to the player at that era recognise the fact that Castro’s intervention essentially saved his life.

Maradona has paid tribute to his great friend from Croatia, where he is current watching the Davis Cup final, stating to TyC Sports: “He was like a father to me. When the tennis is over, I’ll go to Cuba to say goodbye to my friend. He opened the doors to Cuba to me when Argentina was closing them on me.”

World football, therefore, must thank Castro, a devout baseball fan, for saving one of the greatest players of all time. Diego will no doubt enjoy a cigar in his honour.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:33 AM

61. K and r.

It took courage for you to post this.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:46 AM

67. I grew up in a dictatorship. Good riddance to him.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #67)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:22 PM

84. Which dictatorship was that?

Just curious..

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Response to whathehell (Reply #84)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:09 PM

108. Philippines in the 1970s

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #108)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:19 PM

118. Oh yes.

Marcos.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #118)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:11 PM

123. Curfew, press censorship, travel bans, suspended civil rights...

...too bay Marcos didn't just offer everyone fee health care.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:06 PM

70. My family fled Mao's China. Dead communists are always cause for celebration.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:12 PM

72. I hated that he treated people the same way we do.

eom

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:43 PM

73. For better or worse, he was a larger than life historical figure.

As such, I will mix a "Fidel Castro" tonite and toast to him.

A "Fidel Castro" is Canada Dry, Havana Club rum and a slice of lime on the rocks.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:09 PM

74. I wish I had your rose colored glasses

He was a bit more complicated than the being the savior you paint him out to be. He was definitely a mixed bag - good and bad.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:25 PM

75. Others have stood up to the global bully

Where does Castro fall if we compare him with Hussein, Khrushchev, Ahmadinejad, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Joung-Un and family?

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:34 PM

76. 1000

 

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:53 PM

78. Were any of those people free to leave?



Spoiler alert: no, they weren't. Castro was a piece of shit and your opinion is laughable.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:57 PM

79. K&R

 

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:57 PM

80. PS: Castro won



Great OP. Not sure about "love" but like any leader, Fidel Castro cant be reduced to a simplistic black or white hat

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Response to Arazi (Reply #80)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:01 PM

90. I agree. The US finally let up

Thank you Obama for risking political capital for the Cuban people

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:58 PM

81. We are continually

lied to.

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Response to malaise (Reply #92)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:46 PM

96. Here's the photo from that article for you...


Outside her home in Havana, Rafaela Vargas mourns the death of Fidel Castro.
Photograph: Desmond Boylan/AP


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/26/havana-mourning-cubans-fidelista-fidel-castro

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Response to countryjake (Reply #96)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:47 PM

97. Speaks volumes in the face of ugly

propaganda

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Response to malaise (Reply #97)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 04:41 PM

99. You've phrased that perfectly!

I will now quietly drift back off into online obscurity again. There is positive movement afoot all across the US but it sure ain't happenin' on the Internet.

Peace to you, malaise! Wish I knew you in real life.

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Response to countryjake (Reply #99)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:01 PM

101. LOL

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:11 PM

83. Ahem....

 

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:46 PM

86. During the Cuban missile crisis

Castro urged Khrushchev to nuke the US in a first strike. No American should she'd a tear for him

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #86)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:57 PM

87. Urged? The US nuked

Japan.

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Response to malaise (Reply #87)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 04:52 PM

100. pearl harbor WWII

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:58 PM

88. Thank you Malaise for risking that opinion on DU today!

Fidel did much good in the world and he ended two centuries of US domination. American citizens don't want to look at the historical reasons for his rise since the finger is pointed right at us. The US was willing to use and abuse Cuba but the Cubans have a uniquely strong identity and will. Fidel embodied that quality.

I've been there dozens of times and have seen both sides of the story. I'd say support is 50/50 on the island, not bad considering the hardships.

Interestingly the funeral is the 4th of December the day of Santa Barbara and Chango in Santeria. This will mean a lot to the Cuban people symbolically. Fidel was there for the Afrocubans in many ways.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #88)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:05 PM

91. It was easy - I too am a neighbor

but not an American neighbor. It is wonderful listening to people in our hemisphere today -Fidel was loved in this hemisphere.

Let me add that the date for the funeral is really significant.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:36 PM

93. It's a pleasure to find your post here, malaise!

Tho I did expect to hear the news of Fidel's death soon since his health has been failing, it's still a sad loss for the majority of the people of this world and I am mourning that today.

The despicable propaganda spewing from my nation's news sources today tells me only that the icy Cold War is still very much alive and well in the stony circles of Capitalist Imperialism. To those of us who experienced it back when it all began, I'd say it's the same as it ever was and that's a real shame.

Thankfully, living way up here as I do, I can also view Canadian reflections, like you are.

Love you & miss you, old friend!

Peace, Fidel...

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Response to countryjake (Reply #93)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:38 PM

94. Love you back

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:46 PM

103. Recommended. But he will also be judged for his position on human rights. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #103)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:26 PM

114. True - here's Corbyn's tribute

Castro was ‘champion of social justice’ despite flaws, says Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-left-uk-politics-fidel-castro
<snip>
“Fidel Castro’s death marks the passing of a huge figure of modern history, national independence and 20th-century socialism,” said the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who claimed that “for all his flaws” Castro would be remembered as an “internationalist and a champion of social justice”.

------------------
A very good report here

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:32 PM

115. Castro is burning in hell for all the people he exiled, imprisoned and killed

 

You can't claim to love the people and then oppress them.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:24 PM

119. I have to respectfully disagree. Castro was a dictator which goes against everything

America stands for. While he may have been a "benevolent dictator" as you imply, he was none the less a dictator. One who would imprison anyone who disagreed with him. When have there been any meaningful elections in Cuba? "crickets"

What you are saying almost reminds me of tRump supporters. Believe what you want, but I am not buying it.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #119)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:32 PM

120. What a joke

Everything America stands for...like who Pinochet? Spare me.

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Response to malaise (Reply #120)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:46 PM

121. Yeah...

at least we have the opportunity to speak out against things like that. Not in Cuba. How nice that he that he handed over leadership of HIS country to his brother. Imagine what would happen here if GW Bush had handed over leadership of this country to JEB? in 2007 without an election.

Oh wait, they don't have elections in Cuba.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #121)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:48 PM

122. JEB did hand over Florida to his brother n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #122)

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:41 PM

124. Actually no, we have these things called elections here in Fla

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #124)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 04:57 AM

128. Then cleaarly you didn't follow the 2000 election n/t

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 03:45 AM

127. I'm gonna rec this...

for you so freely expressing your opinion.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #127)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:18 AM

129. Poor lil Marco - Justin Trudeau has him all upset

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/justin-trudeau-ridiculed-over-praise-of-remarkable-fidel-castro
<snip>

Justin Trudeau, the Canadian prime minister, has been mocked and criticised over his praise of the late Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

Following the death of Castro, Trudeau, whose father had a close relationship with the revolutionary, released a statement mourning the loss of a “remarkable leader”.
Guerrilla leader, dictator – and an unrepentant revolutionary
Read more

Castro, who died on Friday aged 90, won support for bringing schools and hospitals to the poor but also created legions of enemies for his ruthless suppression of dissent.

Trudeau’s comments were markedly more positive than most western leaders, who either condemned Castro’s human rights record or tip-toed around the subject.

Instead, Trudeau warmly recalled his late father’s friendship with Castro and his own meeting with Castro’s three sons and brother – Raul, Cuba’s current president – during a visit to the island nation earlier this month.

“While a controversial figure, both Mr Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for ‘el Comandante’,” Trudeau said in the statement.

He called Castro “larger than life” and “a legendary revolutionary and orator”.

---------------------------------
Truth is Fidel was a remarkable leader - warts and all

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #127)

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:59 AM

131. Freely expressing opinion

but conveniently ignoring unpleasant realities like this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8307443

But that is standard procedure for the OP, especially when it concerns that particular topic.

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