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malaise

(268,885 posts)
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:20 AM Nov 2016

I loved Fidel

He was a great neighbor and he stood up to the global bully
Rest my brother - we'll judge the education level, the healthcare achievements and your role in destroying apartheid in Africa. Thanks for the doctors, nurses, scholarships and your genuine desire for hemispheric independence. You were loved.

I am watching BBC and local TV for objective coverage.

131 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I loved Fidel (Original Post) malaise Nov 2016 OP
Those who care about Human Rights despised him Riftaxe Nov 2016 #1
I'm trying not to laugh malaise Nov 2016 #2
So did the non-racist, non-oligarchal Cubans. Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #11
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Nov 2016 #12
as long as they weren't gay dsc Nov 2016 #102
This. nt Laffy Kat Nov 2016 #109
"I loved Fidel - that simple." Love is irrational. You have placed yourself outside of reason. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #34
You're wrong malaise Nov 2016 #38
But that is different, Malaise. guillaumeb Nov 2016 #104
Read malaise Nov 2016 #110
And remember that all the world is considered a US area of vital interest. eom guillaumeb Nov 2016 #112
favouring one evil over another is fucked up Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #3
Cuba has the best educated and healthiest population in our hemisphere malaise Nov 2016 #4
ludicrous Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #6
Thank you Dem2 Nov 2016 #95
BFD, they can't do anything with that education. They can hardly EAT. They cannot own their own secondwind Nov 2016 #8
"Owning a business" has nothing to do with freedom. ronnie624 Nov 2016 #71
Well said malaise Nov 2016 #98
israel has a good education system also JI7 Nov 2016 #64
True n/t malaise Nov 2016 #68
As long as the student is..................? guillaumeb Nov 2016 #105
Not a... malaise Nov 2016 #111
True, not a .........eom guillaumeb Nov 2016 #113
1 50 Shades Of Blue Nov 2016 #117
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #5
His people would disagree with you, malaise. Big time.. He separated families, ripped children from secondwind Nov 2016 #7
Are you unware it was the CIA who created that rumor which got the middle & upper class parents, Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #18
... 2naSalit Nov 2016 #69
Excellent information flamingdem Nov 2016 #89
Brava! pangaia Nov 2016 #107
Right on! burrowowl Nov 2016 #125
Only kings and dictators rule for 60 years hack89 Nov 2016 #9
Here's some objectivity: he is worth just short of A BILLION. while his country starved... secondwind Nov 2016 #10
Mitch McConnell is worth millions and some people in the mountains of mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #24
And you love McConnell for it? NCTraveler Nov 2016 #33
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. My point is that mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #53
But they are "free" to starve. eom guillaumeb Nov 2016 #106
Someone already tried to plant that "wisdom" from Forbes years ago, and it wasn't true then, either. Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #27
I don't know much about Castro... tecelote Nov 2016 #13
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Nov 2016 #16
My dear Malaise, while healthcare is available to all, it is not that simple.. In Cuba, secondwind Nov 2016 #14
Say, do you have a link to a truthful source about that tragic sob-fest breakdown at a mall? Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #28
ROFL malaise Nov 2016 #85
I agree Sunsky Nov 2016 #15
Good post malaise Nov 2016 #20
Sounds good.. whathehell Nov 2016 #77
OK this denbot Nov 2016 #130
Castro was a lot better than what he replaced. Bad Dog Nov 2016 #17
The Guardian had a recent report on Churchill's coup in then malaise Nov 2016 #21
It is simple. MyNameGoesHere Nov 2016 #19
Yes indeed malaise Nov 2016 #22
The US Navy used to use Cuba as a Rest and Relaxation port. Really whooped it up for a while! Judi Lynn Nov 2016 #29
Thanks for this.. whathehell Nov 2016 #82
He was an authoritarian dictator with little respect for human rights Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2016 #23
Sounds like what Donald Drumpf and the blameless media have mfcorey1 Nov 2016 #25
His greatest crime was overthrowing Batista HerrKarlMarx Nov 2016 #26
2 wrongs do not make a right Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #30
A wiser president would have at least tried to co opt him. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2016 #51
Our CIA supplied weapons to Castro... kentuck Nov 2016 #31
Also enabled Posada and his buddy burrowowl Nov 2016 #126
Couldn't sleep, so listened to NPR, VERY early Equinox Moon Nov 2016 #32
Yeah healthcare, education, social programs etc etc Elmergantry Nov 2016 #35
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh malaise Nov 2016 #37
It was an odd comment from "Elmergantry" to my comment Equinox Moon Nov 2016 #41
Precisely malaise Nov 2016 #44
His second GREATEST CRIME HAB911 Nov 2016 #36
ROFL malaise Nov 2016 #39
These almost-rightwingers are pissed HAB911 Nov 2016 #40
Freedom of expression and assembly? oberliner Nov 2016 #42
They (cuban runners) have ruined our country HAB911 Nov 2016 #43
Not the Palestinians malaise Nov 2016 #46
Castro's treatment of the Cuban people was similar to the Israeli treatment of Palestinians oberliner Nov 2016 #47
Huh? malaise Nov 2016 #49
You seemed to be making a comparison to the Palestinians oberliner Nov 2016 #50
United Fruit Company OneBlueDotBama Nov 2016 #65
Hehehehehhe malaise Nov 2016 #66
When I was there, the locals' opinions were divided DFW Nov 2016 #45
He hated America, that's all it should take for us to love him. ileus Nov 2016 #48
Who hated first? He ran United Fruit and the mafia out of Cuba. United Fruit was Dulles's baby. Zen Democrat Nov 2016 #55
I hope he rots on hell, frankly... Adrahil Nov 2016 #52
what cenobites do you think he will Choose to be? stonecutter357 Nov 2016 #54
I have to admit, Malaise, the news of his death actually makes me kind of sad Siwsan Nov 2016 #56
Nice post malaise Nov 2016 #59
The CBC and BBC have become my new 'go to' news sources Siwsan Nov 2016 #60
Same here malaise Nov 2016 #63
His thousands of victims are comforted by your love of a brutal fascist. Statistical Nov 2016 #57
Love/Hate - both are simplistic cabot Nov 2016 #58
Diego Maradona on Fidel malaise Nov 2016 #62
K and r. cwydro Nov 2016 #61
Folks in Cuba today malaise Nov 2016 #116
I grew up in a dictatorship. Good riddance to him. brooklynite Nov 2016 #67
Which dictatorship was that? whathehell Nov 2016 #84
Philippines in the 1970s brooklynite Nov 2016 #108
Oh yes. whathehell Nov 2016 #118
Curfew, press censorship, travel bans, suspended civil rights... brooklynite Nov 2016 #123
My family fled Mao's China. Dead communists are always cause for celebration. name not needed Nov 2016 #70
I hated that he treated people the same way we do. tenderfoot Nov 2016 #72
For better or worse, he was a larger than life historical figure. roamer65 Nov 2016 #73
I wish I had your rose colored glasses nini Nov 2016 #74
Others have stood up to the global bully sarisataka Nov 2016 #75
1000 heaven05 Nov 2016 #76
Were any of those people free to leave? Dreamer Tatum Nov 2016 #78
K&R Uponthegears Nov 2016 #79
PS: Castro won Arazi Nov 2016 #80
I agree. The US finally let up flamingdem Nov 2016 #90
We are continually cilla4progress Nov 2016 #81
How the Cuban people feel malaise Nov 2016 #92
Here's the photo from that article for you... countryjake Nov 2016 #96
Speaks volumes in the face of ugly malaise Nov 2016 #97
You've phrased that perfectly! countryjake Nov 2016 #99
LOL malaise Nov 2016 #101
Ahem.... Adrahil Nov 2016 #83
During the Cuban missile crisis rusty fender Nov 2016 #86
Urged? The US nuked malaise Nov 2016 #87
pearl harbor WWII JI7 Nov 2016 #100
Thank you Malaise for risking that opinion on DU today! flamingdem Nov 2016 #88
It was easy - I too am a neighbor malaise Nov 2016 #91
It's a pleasure to find your post here, malaise! countryjake Nov 2016 #93
Love you back malaise Nov 2016 #94
Recommended. But he will also be judged for his position on human rights. eom guillaumeb Nov 2016 #103
True - here's Corbyn's tribute malaise Nov 2016 #114
Castro is burning in hell for all the people he exiled, imprisoned and killed LittleBlue Nov 2016 #115
I have to respectfully disagree. Castro was a dictator which goes against everything madinmaryland Nov 2016 #119
What a joke malaise Nov 2016 #120
Yeah... madinmaryland Nov 2016 #121
JEB did hand over Florida to his brother n/t malaise Nov 2016 #122
Actually no, we have these things called elections here in Fla EX500rider Nov 2016 #124
Then cleaarly you didn't follow the 2000 election n/t malaise Nov 2016 #128
I'm gonna rec this... SMC22307 Nov 2016 #127
Poor lil Marco - Justin Trudeau has him all upset malaise Nov 2016 #129
Freely expressing opinion melman Nov 2016 #131

Riftaxe

(2,693 posts)
1. Those who care about Human Rights despised him
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:03 AM
Nov 2016

I imagine in your mind you think you have a clue about the atrocities...in the end your ignorance changes not a thing, mourn if you want, just do not expect people to look you in the eye if you brag about it.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
2. I'm trying not to laugh
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:19 AM
Nov 2016

Examine US governments' atrocities at home and across the planet then get back to me.

I loved Fidel - that simple.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
11. So did the non-racist, non-oligarchal Cubans.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:52 AM
Nov 2016

As someone who goes frequently to Cuba, has lived and worked there, has relatives there has told us, he used to tool around Cuba in his jeep with the top down, and people greeted him everywhere he went, young, and old.

Clearly there are some right-wingers who have bought every shred of propaganda ever dreamed up by rabid people determined to mold public perception about what happened in Cuba after the people's revolution.

People might have learned differently if they had simply dared to go to Cuba through a third country, like Mexico, etc. It surely wasn't Cuba keeping them out, was it?

Thank you, malaise.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
104. But that is different, Malaise.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 05:48 PM
Nov 2016

US atrocities are motivated by the very best of intentions.
Well, that is how history tells it.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
4. Cuba has the best educated and healthiest population in our hemisphere
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:30 AM
Nov 2016

Cuba is a friend to Jamaica.
Cuba embarrassed the world over ebola.
You won't change my mind on that.
Thank you Fidel

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
6. ludicrous
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:42 AM
Nov 2016

5 myths about Cuba

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/5-myths-about-cuba/2016/03/25/44f0b3e2-f21e-11e5-89c3-a647fcce95e0_story.html?client=ms-android-samsung


They oppressed blacks, gays for decades as well. BTW, I am half Bajan, so am aware of inherent West Indian oppression of LGBTQ, and Jamaica is the most violently homophobic country in the western hemisphere. Truly horrific. So in that sense, Cuba and Yard have common cause.

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
8. BFD, they can't do anything with that education. They can hardly EAT. They cannot own their own
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:51 AM
Nov 2016

businesses, except for just a little bit of MATTRESS REPAIRING, etc., but God forbid you also want to sell mattresses... nope, you aren't allowed to. You can only be a tiny cog in a big machine, heaven forbid you actually become SUCCESSFUL.

I visited a Temple there, a man followed us there, and he sat outside the door of the office where we were visiting...we were followed everywhere, even to the airport

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
71. "Owning a business" has nothing to do with freedom.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:07 PM
Nov 2016

Economic activity is very strictly limited by the laws of physics. There is no freedom in this regard, if the goal is to provide goods and services to everyone.

'Freedom' refers to political, intellectual and artistic pursuits, not a primitive, base desire to scarf up more than one needs.

People have been programmed to believe such incredible nonsense, including perpetual motion.

Response to malaise (Original post)

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
7. His people would disagree with you, malaise. Big time.. He separated families, ripped children from
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:47 AM
Nov 2016

their parents' arms and shipped them off to the U.S.

One of those children is a friend of mine.. I doubt she sees him in the same light. She lived with three different families until the day came when her parents were "allowed" to leave Cuba. Her mother's ring was taken from her finger before she could get on a plane.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
18. Are you unware it was the CIA who created that rumor which got the middle & upper class parents,
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:10 AM
Nov 2016

terrified that their children would be put in camps, or sent to the Soviet Union, etc., etc., and raced to throw them on airplanes to the US, and the entire colossal stunt was called "Operation Peter Pan?"

By the way, the children "left behind" in Cuba were NOT put in camps or sent to "Soviet Russia." Surprise!

Spend some time finding out about the subject first, then talk about the event from an informed foundation.

Excerpt from:
The Bay of Pigs and the CIA
By Juan Carlos Rodríguez

Page 55 | Legal Custody of Children

Operation Peter Pan began to take shape in Washington in mid-1960. (It was called that because Peter Pan had taken the three darling children away to Never-Never Land.) The name was sadly ironic: for many of those children who were sent out of Cuba, the United States would be a land from which they would never, never return home. The operation formed part of the arsenal used to psychologically soften up the Cuban people. With it, the Propaganda Section in Quarters Eye decided to unleash a propaganda campaign to make ordinary Cubans believe that, under a communist government, children - like the land, industries, stores and housing - would become the property of the state. If that happened, parents would lose legal custody of their children.

The CIA experts were confident that, if they managed to sow that doubt in some of the people, the fear would gather momentum and could lead to the exodus of thousands of children, split up families and thus undermine the families' support of the government. Undoubtedly, it would be a most effective destabilizing measure.

The first phase of the operation consisted of having the radio station carry a "news" bulletin that would alarm the people and be spread by word of mouth. Therefore, one October night in 1960, Radio Swan made its first reference to this subject in its 8:00 news broadcast:
"Cuban mothers, don't let them take your children away! The Revolutionary Government will take them away from you when they turn five and will keep them until they are 18. By that time, they will be materialist monsters."


During the following months, over and over again, the station would rebroadcast that false "news item" about children being taken away from their parents. In December 1960, the CIA experts felt that the idea had taken root on the island and decided to go on to the next phase, which would split Cuban families and finally cause some of them to oppose the government. That would guarantee solid support for the invaders. Under apparently legal cover, using the services of the Catholic Church, the children's exodus began. Operation Peter Pan was carried out under a religious cloak as "humanitarian assistance" provided by the Catholic Services Bureau in Florida. Its main protagonist, who allowed himself to be used as a figurehead, was Monsignor Bryan O. Walsh.

More:
http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/pedro.htm


[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
December 16, 2011
The CIA, Cuba and Operation Peter Pan

by Nelson P. Valdes - Saul Landau

On November 19, 2011 NPR broadcast “Children Of Cuba Remember: Their Flight To America.” Reporter Greg Allen claimed the 1960-62 journey from Cuba to the United States of 14,000 plus Cuban children “was made possible because of a deal a priest in the Miami diocese (Father Bryan Walsh) … worked out with the US State Department. The agreement allowed him to sign visa waivers for children 16 or under.” Allen then interviewed several right-of-center Cuban Americans to offer “objective” perspective on the facts surrounding Operation Peter Pan.

Curiously, Allen omitted the CIA from his report, although ample evidence shows the Agency in the early 1960s conspired with the Church to spirit kids out of Cuba.

Once inside the nurturing borders of the greatest country in the world “Pedro Pan kids have done well,” Allen concluded, without explaining what “well” means. Now adult Pedro Pan kids remain “firmly opposed to any normalization of relations with the Castro regime, the regime that was responsible for breaking up their families and forcing them from their homeland.”

NPR staff might have discovered a more complex and sinister story – had they looked. The CIA refuses to release Peter Pan documents, but abundant testimony shows the Agency forging documents and spreading lies, with Father Walsh and the regional Catholic hierarchy. Their goal: separate elite children from parents (a Cuban brain drain) and generate political instability.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/16/the-cia-cuba-and-operation-peter-pan/


ETC.






secondwind

(16,903 posts)
10. Here's some objectivity: he is worth just short of A BILLION. while his country starved...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:51 AM
Nov 2016

Give me a break!

mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
24. Mitch McConnell is worth millions and some people in the mountains of
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:20 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Kentucky are starving. These are people who sent him to Congress and he could care less about them as long as he can be vengeful against those who get in his way.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
33. And you love McConnell for it?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:56 AM
Nov 2016

Lots of justification going on from all sides in order to paint some form of absolute picture of him.

mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
53. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. My point is that
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:59 AM
Nov 2016

he amasses a fortune while his constituents starve.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
27. Someone already tried to plant that "wisdom" from Forbes years ago, and it wasn't true then, either.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:30 AM
Nov 2016

Right wingers are going to continue to suck up the propaganda, and everyone else will go to the trouble of finding out the truth for him/herself, if he/she has a functioning brain, and moral sense.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
13. I don't know much about Castro...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:58 AM
Nov 2016

but it seems to me that many here are hypocrites considering our own countries role in the Americas.

What I do know is that I have had acquaintances who defended him. I respect their opinions.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
16. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:08 AM
Nov 2016

Only propaganda must be spread
Very good coverage on local radio and TV and BBC. They're playing a Manley interview on Fidel right now.

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
14. My dear Malaise, while healthcare is available to all, it is not that simple.. In Cuba,
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:00 AM
Nov 2016

athletes, actors, and foreigners, COME FIRST.

A year of so ago, some Cuban athletes found themselves in the Dominican Republic, and they CRIED when they saw the abundance of everything at a local mall.

THEY CRIED.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
28. Say, do you have a link to a truthful source about that tragic sob-fest breakdown at a mall?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:31 AM
Nov 2016

Have never heard that one, and I've heard some real crappola.

Thanks for your efforts.

Sunsky

(1,737 posts)
15. I agree
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:07 AM
Nov 2016

As a Caribbean American I have a different view of Fidel. Some of my family members and friends have received their medical degrees in Cuba. We've always had good a relationship with the Cubans. I don't love or hate Fidel. He played his part in history and there will be a lot to critique and to admire.
Let's not forget the atrocities committed in the name of democracy. Let's not forget that we live in a country where some people have more rights than others (regardless of legality); where some are treated less than human and are being unjustly murdered by those who are supposed to protect us, with no repercussions. Let's work on getting us better before we go on trying to instill whatever this is unto others.

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)
17. Castro was a lot better than what he replaced.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:10 AM
Nov 2016

James Woods has a very telling line in Salvador, basically America doesn't care about human rights abuses as long as the perpetrators aren't communist. Which is why they aided Pinochet's coup in Chili and said nothing about the 'disappearances' that followed. It's also why we heard nothing about Saddam Hussein's brutality while he was at war with Iran. The human rights abuses in Honduras are shocking but because they swell the coffers of US companies like Chiquita they're barely mentioned. Even when US companies overthrew the democratically elected government the silence was deafening.

Churchill was pretty dictatorial during WW2, when you're fighting fascist imperialists there's very little time for such niceties. We only had to deal with fascist aggression for six years, Castro has had to contend with it ever since the revolution.

Castro was far from perfect but he was a damn sight better than America's fascist puppets throughout the region.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
21. The Guardian had a recent report on Churchill's coup in then
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:15 AM
Nov 2016

British Guiana (Guyana).

Good post

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
19. It is simple.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:13 AM
Nov 2016

Those who love whorehouses, casinos, and hotels where they were waited on hand and foot by brown people hate Castro. Everyone else had an open mind. But then our government began an over 50 year propaganda to train ignorant youth to hate something no one even gives a shit about.

Judi Lynn

(160,515 posts)
29. The US Navy used to use Cuba as a Rest and Relaxation port. Really whooped it up for a while!
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:40 AM
Nov 2016

Here's a website which has been around a long time, containing literature published in the 1950's to inform US Americans planning to go to Cuba before the Revolution, suggesting places to go, things to see, etc.

It shows what people did think of Cuba under Batista, just as you posted:

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/%21entertain.html

Thank you, by the way.

whathehell

(29,064 posts)
82. Thanks for this..
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:10 PM
Nov 2016

It's a real eye-opener...It seems I've heard Battista's Cuba referred to as a "floating whorehouse". This gives credence to the misery and degradation many if not most Cubans had to endure.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,166 posts)
23. He was an authoritarian dictator with little respect for human rights
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:20 AM
Nov 2016

He was not the Hitler or Stalin of the Caribbean that some people painted him to be, but he was not a particularly nice guy. A lot of people suffered and even died under his reign and I can't say I'm particularly sad to see him go, even though his legacy was not quite as dark as some claimed and our own involvement was not blameless either.

 

HerrKarlMarx

(37 posts)
26. His greatest crime was overthrowing Batista
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:26 AM
Nov 2016

Batista was a brutal dictator who murdered tens of thousands of his people and imprisoned and tortured many more. Yet this was perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the US government for two reasons. First, his brutality was carried out not in the name of communism but anti-communism. Second, he invited US investments, and by the end of his reign the majority of Cuban resources were owned by American companies.

Castro visited the US in 1959 in the hopes of establishing a friendly relationship with the US, but Eisenhower would have nothing to do with it. His great crime? Overthrowing Batista. The worst offense in the eyes of American foreign policy is interfering with American business interests abroad. Castro has been vilified ever since, and it is what then drove him to seek a friendship with the Soviet Union instead.

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
30. 2 wrongs do not make a right
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:42 AM
Nov 2016

Both Batista and Castro were brutal, murderous dictators. Sorry, you cannot unspin facts.

kentuck

(111,076 posts)
31. Our CIA supplied weapons to Castro...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:43 AM
Nov 2016

He visited New York as an ally of the US.

But he refused to be a puppet of the US after Batista was over-thrown. He was isolated by the US Government.

Batista was a brutal dictator, much worse than Castro. He and a few land owners ruled Cuba until Castro took power.

Most of the landowners and families fled to south Florida, around Miami. Their ancestors live there today.

America has been exposed to too much propaganda to judge Fidel fairly, in my opinion.

Equinox Moon

(6,344 posts)
32. Couldn't sleep, so listened to NPR, VERY early
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 08:49 AM
Nov 2016

They had on several people talking about Fidel. It was candid and impromptu. It was the first time I had heard about Fidel from non-propaganda views. One aspect of the dialog that stood out for me was what Bernie had highlighted in his campaign regarding universal health care. This poor country showed the world that universal health care could be implemented and sustained.

In stark contrast of course is America, wealthiest nation, is getting further and further from universal health care. The repubs are bent on privatizing Medicare. How odd a contrast between these two countries.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
35. Yeah healthcare, education, social programs etc etc
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:15 AM
Nov 2016

Are so good in Cuba that people in the US are taking to rafts to try to get in.

Tyrant. Murderer. Good riddance.

Equinox Moon

(6,344 posts)
41. It was an odd comment from "Elmergantry" to my comment
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:35 AM
Nov 2016

I would say to "Elmergantry" it is okay to appreciate and recognize impressive aspects of people and government rule in this case. One could do the same with the US. Don't get me started about Pres. O's drone wars.

Thanks for the "opposition" thread Malaise.

HAB911

(8,876 posts)
36. His second GREATEST CRIME
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:16 AM
Nov 2016

was allowing freaks like the Cruz family get out alive. Marco tried to fool us that the freak Rubios escaped because of Castro but that was a lie. Now they are here with their rightwing shit.

HAB911

(8,876 posts)
40. These almost-rightwingers are pissed
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:24 AM
Nov 2016

because he didn't want his island to be the Caribbean Las Vegas complete with the mafia. fuckem

HAB911

(8,876 posts)
43. They (cuban runners) have ruined our country
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:58 AM
Nov 2016

A letter I wrote to Rubio when he and Tehran Tom Cotton became traitors to our country:

Although I signed one of the many on-line responses to your involvement in Tom Cotton's letter to Iran, the more time has passed, the more I feel that was not nearly enough.

Living in Tampa since 1974 has provided a totally immersive experience in wonderful Cuban culture and people. I've worked with and lived beside many wonderful Americans of Cuban descent over the years. The Cuban culture has thrived in Tampa for a hundred years.

But this Tampa culture is not the neo-Cuban culture from which you come, and parenthetically that of another very similar to you, Ted Cruz. The two of you have in a few short years made me come to see the neo-immigrant Cubans of South Florida as an extremely distasteful lot.

I know neither of your families ran from Castro, even though you attempted to infer or claim so, having left Cuba prior to the revolution. Regardless, you and Sen. Cruz and all the neo-immigrant Cubans of South Florida have so skewed MY country's politics to the right, with simple and singlemindedness, it can hardly be recognized.

This letter to Iran is just the final straw, right behind your position of anti-science climate change denial.

You may feel this is your country, I no longer do. My fervent hope is President Obama opening up relations with Cuba, might in the near future afford you, and Sen. Cruz, the opportunity to return to your homeland and do whatever it is you want with it. Being a left-leaning Democrat, statements like this are anathema to me, but this is what YOU have brought me to. There is no expectation of changing your opinion or course, but it's important you know these feelings are out here, if you don't already.

I'm sorry for both of us, because you disappoint me deeply.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
47. Castro's treatment of the Cuban people was similar to the Israeli treatment of Palestinians
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:24 AM
Nov 2016

If that is the point you are making, I agree with you.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
49. Huh?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:37 AM
Nov 2016

Look discuss Chile, Guatamala, Nicaragua, Argentina and their US backed military juntas and dictators.
Fidel was a baby to those monsters.

What Fidel did for healthcare and education have no equal in this hemisphere.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
50. You seemed to be making a comparison to the Palestinians
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:43 AM
Nov 2016

What was that comment in reference to?

In terms of healthcare and education, it is true that dictators with absolute power can often achieve the things they want to achieve.

That doesn't mean that freedom of expression and assembly aren't critical values to fight for.

OneBlueDotBama

(1,384 posts)
65. United Fruit Company
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:43 AM
Nov 2016

Dole, Chiquita Brands International.

I wonder if many know where the term "Banana Republic" references.

DFW

(54,330 posts)
45. When I was there, the locals' opinions were divided
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:14 AM
Nov 2016

The government people thought he was wonderful. They could do what they wanted, could travel abroad (my invitation was arranged by a Cuban government official I met in London), ate in the island's best restaurants. In between official activities, they recommended, much to my surprise, that I take a stroll "on my own" through the old town of Havana, and take in the sights.

On my own, right. I was followed, of course. They didn't even try to be subtle. One of my DGI "escorts" even complimented me on my Spanish. I was approached by one kid, maybe 16 or 17, and he poured out his hate for the government, He said a family member was a diabetic and got care packages including insulin sent by relatives in Miami, except that the packages were opened by the government, and anything of use was removed. He asked me if I would buy him a pocket calculator in the hard currency shop. I checked to make sure I wouldn't be doing anything illegal, and when it turned out to be OK, I went to the hard currency shop and got him an $8 pocket calculator. You'd think I had just bought him a first class ticket to Miami and a 5,000 square foot villa to live in when he got there. I guess he was the first one on his block, or wherever it was he lived.

One thing that has been commented on heavily here, and I did NOT notice, was the racial divide. Maybe the reports are true, maybe not, I just was too well insulated find out. The kid mentioned above was black, and my DGI escorts were white or mixed. My government contacts and their chauffeurs were all of European origin except their division boss, who was black. So I have no comment one way or the other on the local race issue.

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
55. Who hated first? He ran United Fruit and the mafia out of Cuba. United Fruit was Dulles's baby.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:00 AM
Nov 2016

The mafia also came to be Dulles's baby. The CIA hated Castro, and Castro hated the CIA. Castro outlived his enemies in the CIA, but now he's gone, and they are all dead. Such is life.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
52. I hope he rots on hell, frankly...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:46 AM
Nov 2016

The OP very nicely ignore the thousands upon thousnds of people "Fidel" totud and imprisoned in the name of his "revolution." Fuck Fidel. I hope his death means a new age for people... a DEMOCRATIC Socialist future.

Siwsan

(26,257 posts)
56. I have to admit, Malaise, the news of his death actually makes me kind of sad
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:00 AM
Nov 2016

Maybe because I always saw him as a fierce revolutionary, and coming from a country that was founded by fierce revolutionaries, I just don't see that as necessarily being a bad thing.

He was always presented at the big "Bogey Man", just a short stretch of water from Florida, but that just never range true, to me. I actually felt great joy when President Obama moved to normalize the relationship between the US and Cuba. It is a place I've always thought would be a wonderful place to visit, and hopefully I will.

So, RIP, Fidel.

cabot

(724 posts)
58. Love/Hate - both are simplistic
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:15 AM
Nov 2016

The man did some great things - advancing education for his citizens, top-notch health care, providing doctors and nurses to countries around the world. He also did some horrible things - he persecuted a lot of artists such as Reinaldo Arenas, who was one among many.

I've been to Cuba. Being in Havana is like seeing an old whore who used to be beautiful but has been worn down by time and neglect. It's sad because it is a gorgeous city.

I don't think it is wise to celebrate his death - like I said, he did some great things. But let's not act like he was a saint simply because he hated the US.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
62. Diego Maradona on Fidel
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:34 AM
Nov 2016
http://www.goal.com/en/news/585/argentina/2016/11/26/29908422/fidel-castro-the-man-who-saved-diego-maradonas-life?ICID=HP_HN_HP_RI_1_3
<snip>
Maradona met Castro and was amazed by his tales, thereafter returning several times to the Caribbean island. He would take football shirts to the president as gifts.

It was not until after Maradona retired, however, that the pair’s relationship reached its strongest point. The Argentine great was in a dreadful state due to his problems with drugs and needed hospitalisation to rehabilitate. Castro saw the opportunity for the Cuban health service – which had more qualified doctors than the whole of Africa – to step in and made ‘La Pedrera’ clinic available to for his friend's use.

This proved to be the beginning of Maradona’s recovery, and those close to the player at that era recognise the fact that Castro’s intervention essentially saved his life.

Maradona has paid tribute to his great friend from Croatia, where he is current watching the Davis Cup final, stating to TyC Sports: “He was like a father to me. When the tennis is over, I’ll go to Cuba to say goodbye to my friend. He opened the doors to Cuba to me when Argentina was closing them on me.”

World football, therefore, must thank Castro, a devout baseball fan, for saving one of the greatest players of all time. Diego will no doubt enjoy a cigar in his honour.

brooklynite

(94,489 posts)
123. Curfew, press censorship, travel bans, suspended civil rights...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 09:11 PM
Nov 2016

...too bay Marcos didn't just offer everyone fee health care.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
73. For better or worse, he was a larger than life historical figure.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:43 PM
Nov 2016

As such, I will mix a "Fidel Castro" tonite and toast to him.

A "Fidel Castro" is Canada Dry, Havana Club rum and a slice of lime on the rocks.

nini

(16,672 posts)
74. I wish I had your rose colored glasses
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:09 PM
Nov 2016

He was a bit more complicated than the being the savior you paint him out to be. He was definitely a mixed bag - good and bad.

sarisataka

(18,570 posts)
75. Others have stood up to the global bully
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:25 PM
Nov 2016

Where does Castro fall if we compare him with Hussein, Khrushchev, Ahmadinejad, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Joung-Un and family?

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
78. Were any of those people free to leave?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:53 PM
Nov 2016


Spoiler alert: no, they weren't. Castro was a piece of shit and your opinion is laughable.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
80. PS: Castro won
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:57 PM
Nov 2016


Great OP. Not sure about "love" but like any leader, Fidel Castro cant be reduced to a simplistic black or white hat

flamingdem

(39,312 posts)
90. I agree. The US finally let up
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:01 PM
Nov 2016

Thank you Obama for risking political capital for the Cuban people

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
99. You've phrased that perfectly!
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 04:41 PM
Nov 2016

I will now quietly drift back off into online obscurity again. There is positive movement afoot all across the US but it sure ain't happenin' on the Internet.

Peace to you, malaise! Wish I knew you in real life.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
86. During the Cuban missile crisis
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:46 PM
Nov 2016

Castro urged Khrushchev to nuke the US in a first strike. No American should she'd a tear for him

flamingdem

(39,312 posts)
88. Thank you Malaise for risking that opinion on DU today!
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:58 PM
Nov 2016

Fidel did much good in the world and he ended two centuries of US domination. American citizens don't want to look at the historical reasons for his rise since the finger is pointed right at us. The US was willing to use and abuse Cuba but the Cubans have a uniquely strong identity and will. Fidel embodied that quality.

I've been there dozens of times and have seen both sides of the story. I'd say support is 50/50 on the island, not bad considering the hardships.

Interestingly the funeral is the 4th of December the day of Santa Barbara and Chango in Santeria. This will mean a lot to the Cuban people symbolically. Fidel was there for the Afrocubans in many ways.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
91. It was easy - I too am a neighbor
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:05 PM
Nov 2016

but not an American neighbor. It is wonderful listening to people in our hemisphere today -Fidel was loved in this hemisphere.

Let me add that the date for the funeral is really significant.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
93. It's a pleasure to find your post here, malaise!
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:36 PM
Nov 2016

Tho I did expect to hear the news of Fidel's death soon since his health has been failing, it's still a sad loss for the majority of the people of this world and I am mourning that today.

The despicable propaganda spewing from my nation's news sources today tells me only that the icy Cold War is still very much alive and well in the stony circles of Capitalist Imperialism. To those of us who experienced it back when it all began, I'd say it's the same as it ever was and that's a real shame.

Thankfully, living way up here as I do, I can also view Canadian reflections, like you are.

Love you & miss you, old friend!

Peace, Fidel...

malaise

(268,885 posts)
114. True - here's Corbyn's tribute
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:26 PM
Nov 2016

Castro was ‘champion of social justice’ despite flaws, says Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-left-uk-politics-fidel-castro
<snip>
“Fidel Castro’s death marks the passing of a huge figure of modern history, national independence and 20th-century socialism,” said the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who claimed that “for all his flaws” Castro would be remembered as an “internationalist and a champion of social justice”.

------------------
A very good report here

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
115. Castro is burning in hell for all the people he exiled, imprisoned and killed
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:32 PM
Nov 2016

You can't claim to love the people and then oppress them.

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
119. I have to respectfully disagree. Castro was a dictator which goes against everything
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:24 PM
Nov 2016

America stands for. While he may have been a "benevolent dictator" as you imply, he was none the less a dictator. One who would imprison anyone who disagreed with him. When have there been any meaningful elections in Cuba? "crickets"

What you are saying almost reminds me of tRump supporters. Believe what you want, but I am not buying it.

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
121. Yeah...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 07:46 PM
Nov 2016

at least we have the opportunity to speak out against things like that. Not in Cuba. How nice that he that he handed over leadership of HIS country to his brother. Imagine what would happen here if GW Bush had handed over leadership of this country to JEB? in 2007 without an election.

Oh wait, they don't have elections in Cuba.

malaise

(268,885 posts)
129. Poor lil Marco - Justin Trudeau has him all upset
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:18 AM
Nov 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/justin-trudeau-ridiculed-over-praise-of-remarkable-fidel-castro
<snip>

Justin Trudeau, the Canadian prime minister, has been mocked and criticised over his praise of the late Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

Following the death of Castro, Trudeau, whose father had a close relationship with the revolutionary, released a statement mourning the loss of a “remarkable leader”.
Guerrilla leader, dictator – and an unrepentant revolutionary
Read more

Castro, who died on Friday aged 90, won support for bringing schools and hospitals to the poor but also created legions of enemies for his ruthless suppression of dissent.

Trudeau’s comments were markedly more positive than most western leaders, who either condemned Castro’s human rights record or tip-toed around the subject.

Instead, Trudeau warmly recalled his late father’s friendship with Castro and his own meeting with Castro’s three sons and brother – Raul, Cuba’s current president – during a visit to the island nation earlier this month.

“While a controversial figure, both Mr Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for ‘el Comandante’,” Trudeau said in the statement.

He called Castro “larger than life” and “a legendary revolutionary and orator”.

---------------------------------
Truth is Fidel was a remarkable leader - warts and all
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
131. Freely expressing opinion
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 05:59 AM
Nov 2016

but conveniently ignoring unpleasant realities like this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8307443

But that is standard procedure for the OP, especially when it concerns that particular topic.

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