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malaise

(267,823 posts)
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:29 PM Aug 2016

All this shit about an athlete taking a position and not standing for an anthem

from people who don't give a flying fuck about veterans.

He has the right to do what he's doing. Respect kiddo!! I know you live that racism - and even your white parents could never protect you because it is exactly what you say - institutional racism.

Bravo Colin Kaepernick! Tear down the farce!

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All this shit about an athlete taking a position and not standing for an anthem (Original Post) malaise Aug 2016 OP
I happen to have great respect for veterans.... chillfactor Aug 2016 #1
We can disagree on this one malaise Aug 2016 #2
When did sitting down during the national anthem = shitting on America? Glassunion Aug 2016 #4
Do you really think disrespecting the national anthem and flag is going to in any way doc03 Aug 2016 #11
So, instead should a person of color be expected to or forced for the sake of perceved offence Glassunion Aug 2016 #23
+1,000 malaise Aug 2016 #25
always will be heroes in my book heaven05 Aug 2016 #43
How else does he draw attention to it? awoke_in_2003 Aug 2016 #56
Meanwhile, we have a few hundred elected officials.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2016 #5
And they're making the most noise malaise Aug 2016 #9
Well, Semper Fi, bro, but I disagree... Wounded Bear Aug 2016 #8
After finding out last year that the DOD paid millions of dollars Laurian Aug 2016 #14
I Disagree. I Am A Vietnam Vet And I Support Him. TheMastersNemesis Aug 2016 #17
how is not standing shitting on the country ? supporting trump is shitting on the country JI7 Aug 2016 #18
exactly!!! niyad Aug 2016 #52
"I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country." - Colin Kaepernick KeepItReal Aug 2016 #24
In that case, cut out the bogus patriotism. JackRiddler Aug 2016 #36
Koepenick reorg Aug 2016 #50
Subconsciously, yes. JackRiddler Aug 2016 #65
Hear, hear! smirkymonkey Aug 2016 #58
I believe this is exactly the right that soldiers have fought and died for. GreenEyedLefty Aug 2016 #38
Feel the same MarkEzra Aug 2016 #46
Part of being in a free country (what your generations of Marines fought for) FSogol Aug 2016 #47
I honestly don't get the uproar over this. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2016 #3
I'm a veteran and I found it incredibly disrespectful. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #6
Well, this veteran took an oath five times sarge43 Aug 2016 #39
I'm aware of that. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #53
I think Kaepernick has the right to choose True Dough Aug 2016 #7
Very well stated. NaturalHigh Aug 2016 #64
We still have freedom of expression here Warpy Aug 2016 #10
If we lack the option to stand or sit, our country's ideals are empty rhetoric lindysalsagal Aug 2016 #16
At least he's not praying to win games like some people. yortsed snacilbuper Aug 2016 #12
Oh their gawd was all over the malaise Aug 2016 #15
Sorry - don't understand........... MyOwnPeace Aug 2016 #22
Too much is right, can blame Tim Tebow who is now Jim Beard Aug 2016 #57
first world problems.... mike_c Aug 2016 #13
I don't give a fuck about overpaid athletes. cwydro Aug 2016 #19
^^^ THIS ^^^ nt jonno99 Aug 2016 #28
Why is not standing for the anthem disrespectful to veterans? Brickbat Aug 2016 #20
"Quarterback says country is a disaster: Ban him.... babylonsister Aug 2016 #21
There it is. Iggo Aug 2016 #63
Bingo! nt JanMichael Aug 2016 #66
He's done with football anyway. So he had nothing to lose. yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #26
From people shouting "Make America Great Again" vi5 Aug 2016 #27
Well said malaise Aug 2016 #29
This is the sort of bullshit that is grist for the rw AM radio crowd. The_Casual_Observer Aug 2016 #30
i careless whether he sits or stands but,,, Cryptoad Aug 2016 #31
you can be proud of your country Skittles Aug 2016 #32
I was under the impression he was protesting by the way he was playing on the field Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #33
It Is His Right colsohlibgal Aug 2016 #34
Kaep is HONORING the TRUE meaning of what the U.S. flag represents. vkkv Aug 2016 #35
I am FAR more offended by those who think they are the arbiters of what is or is not "pariotism." GoCubsGo Aug 2016 #37
if trump is elected, be this guy spike jones Aug 2016 #40
Thanks. Malaise vlakitti Aug 2016 #41
this person who happens to be an athlete heaven05 Aug 2016 #42
Turning their backs to the flag HockeyMom Aug 2016 #44
It was the right thing to do malaise Aug 2016 #45
Do Jehovah's Witnesses stand for the flag etc. Other groups? shadowmayor Aug 2016 #48
Great post malaise Aug 2016 #49
I worked with a JW woman in public school HockeyMom Aug 2016 #61
I do it every time I say it. One nation, indivisible, and justice for all. It's a 1.5 second pause. JanMichael Aug 2016 #67
Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences. AngryAmish Aug 2016 #51
Freedom = conformity and obedience! moondust Aug 2016 #54
K&R Jeffersons Ghost Aug 2016 #55
LOL malaise Aug 2016 #59
Simplest Possible Solution ProfessorGAC Aug 2016 #60
People fought and killed and died so he would have that right. Iggo Aug 2016 #62

chillfactor

(7,566 posts)
1. I happen to have great respect for veterans....
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:34 PM
Aug 2016

I come from a family of generations of Marines. I usually agree with what you post but this time I have to disagree. Kaepernick is showing nothing but disrespect for a country who has given him many opportunities to enhance his talent...and instead he shits on his country.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
4. When did sitting down during the national anthem = shitting on America?
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:39 PM
Aug 2016

Speaking of shitting on things... How many unarmed black people have be killed by agents of the state just this year alone? Or do they not matter?

doc03

(35,148 posts)
11. Do you really think disrespecting the national anthem and flag is going to in any way
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:50 PM
Aug 2016

prevent unarmed black people from being shot by bad cops? If anything it will inflame more hate. Probably 98% of Americans haven't a clue what the national anthem says. All most people know is it is followed by lets play ball or start your engines.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
23. So, instead should a person of color be expected to or forced for the sake of perceved offence
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:24 PM
Aug 2016

to stand up for the national anthem?

Forced respect is an oxymoron.

Should a person of color be expected to stand for a national anthem for a country that currently oppresses people of color? Standing or sitting during the anthem does not make one any more or less an American. Because sometimes it is our duty as Americans to say something that people don't necessarily want to hear or do something that people don't necessarily want to see. This is how change starts.

How much disrespect has been heaved on minority groups in this nation? Have we achieved absolute equality for gender, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc.? Depending on what glasses one is born with to view the world, views differ greatly. Yours may be a rose colored pair, where America is all good and great, and deserves unfettered respect, while others have a view that's less savory. They live in a nation where their country does not respect them, and in fact works quite diligently to oppress them. But, they should somehow find respect for something that does not respect them back? I don't think so.

Kaepernick has a stage, he has a voice, and he used it. Hopefully as change for the better. Sure he offended some. Good, now they are paying attention. The more folks who have a voice and a stage speak out, the more people will listen.

There are times and places for overt political statements. Usually they are most effective when they are done when it isn't the time or place.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
56. How else does he draw attention to it?
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:50 AM
Aug 2016

He has a platform (for now*), he used it, and people are talking.


I say for now because SF was planning on cutting him prior to this. They couldnt do it earlier because he was injured.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
5. Meanwhile, we have a few hundred elected officials....
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:40 PM
Aug 2016

.....who pay lip service by saying the pledge every morning before sitting down to cut some more veteran's benefits.

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
8. Well, Semper Fi, bro, but I disagree...
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:43 PM
Aug 2016

much ado about nothing in my opinion. Hey, I'm a Seattle Seahwawk fan, so I'm required to hate the punk because of the uniform he plays in, but freedom of speech includes speech and actions that I'd rather not support.

I stand for the Anthem, and at 63, I'm just glad I can stand up. Many vets my age can't. As for a football player, well I'll say the same thing we said during Vietnam, we're serving to preserve his right to free speech.

Laurian

(2,593 posts)
14. After finding out last year that the DOD paid millions of dollars
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:54 PM
Aug 2016

to pro sports organizations for "military tributes", I find the whole thing hypocritical. If the NFL is so patriotic, why didn't they refuse such payment. The money would have been better used toward veteran care. The NFL is an entertainment business and their "patriotism" is part of the show.

 

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
17. I Disagree. I Am A Vietnam Vet And I Support Him.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:02 PM
Aug 2016

He has a point. Plus the national anthem was written by a hateful racist and slave holder. One verse was left out that should have disqualified that anthem. Besides he is speaking for others who have been denied opportunities that he has had.

One thing is sure if Trumpshit wins I probably won't stand up in the future and I may not pledge.

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
24. "I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country." - Colin Kaepernick
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:41 PM
Aug 2016

It ain't about your military family or mine.

Read his entire message.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
36. In that case, cut out the bogus patriotism.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:29 PM
Aug 2016

The people are the country. A constitutional state is the country. Flags and songs are just that: flags and songs.

The flag is a piece of cloth. Worshipping the flag is not a sign of good citizenship. It mostly says you are ready to follow blindly any fool who waves a piece of cloth. It is unpatriotic to follow blindly!

The great scandal of our schools is that children know some crazy socialist preacher's "Pledge of Allegiance" to a piece of cloth, but they don't know the actual Constitution of their own country. This is one reason why so much shit is accepted that should not be.

The anthem is a war song that continues (in further stanzas) with a glorification of how runaway slaves were massacred.

Worshipping flags and singing anthems are religious rituals that do not befit the self-actualized citizens of a democratic, constitutional, secular republic.

As for your veteran relatives, they certainly sacrificed and no doubt believed it was for the defense of the country or some other high ideal, But unless they fought in the Second World War, that is just not so. Since 1945, the wars have almost always been for empire. U.S. soldiers had no business killing people (or being killed in return) in Vietnam, or Iraq, or Lebanon. Your veterans don't have any beef with people who protest these mass murders, or who sit through a song. Their beef should with a government that turned into a global empire.

They certainly didn't do anything to defend Colin Kaepernick or his rights. That is preposterous. His rights are natural, guaranteed under a rule of law, and in reality defended by people who fight for their rights when under attack right here at home, not by Marines in Syria or wherever.

Sorry that you don't like these realities.

Kaepernick is the patriot!

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
65. Subconsciously, yes.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 06:18 PM
Aug 2016

Just not used to the spelling of the (real) man's name, so it kept coming out that way.

 

MarkEzra

(27 posts)
46. Feel the same
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 08:33 PM
Aug 2016

Not just Vets but John, Martin, Medgar, and Bobby, too. This is a country which seeks a more perfect union. I always stand for that.

FSogol

(45,360 posts)
47. Part of being in a free country (what your generations of Marines fought for)
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 08:36 PM
Aug 2016

is not forcing people to all fall in line. Kaepernick made his choice and whether you or I agree, it is his choice.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,750 posts)
3. I honestly don't get the uproar over this.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:38 PM
Aug 2016

Being forced to stand for the anthem is, I don't know, enforced patriotism? Maybe a form of fascism?

It's obligating a person to worship in the secular church of patriotism, and we are supposed to have separation of church and state. Of course, lots of schools make their football players pray, and high school students usually are too browbeaten and bullied to be able to stand up to enforced religion.

But as adults, we really REALLY ought to be able to opt out.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
6. I'm a veteran and I found it incredibly disrespectful.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:41 PM
Aug 2016

And I would think so whether the guy was white or black.

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
39. Well, this veteran took an oath five times
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:45 PM
Aug 2016

to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. That Constitution guarantees the right to peacefully protest.

True Dough

(17,096 posts)
7. I think Kaepernick has the right to choose
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:42 PM
Aug 2016

Just like the people who support and condemn him have a right to their say. That's the beauty of free speech and expression.

Whether you agree or disagree with Kaepernick, he has received an avalanche of media attention. It's hard not to bump into this story on TV or through social media.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
10. We still have freedom of expression here
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:47 PM
Aug 2016

and he was exercising his.

Like it or not, it's his right to do so.

Just like it's the right of people who find symbols extremely important to object to it.

Eventually it will all blow over and we can get back to fighting over something that might actually affect our lives.

lindysalsagal

(20,444 posts)
16. If we lack the option to stand or sit, our country's ideals are empty rhetoric
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:55 PM
Aug 2016

Our freedoms are strengthtened every time someone excercises them.

We're either about freedom, or we aren't. End of discussion.

yortsed snacilbuper

(7,939 posts)
12. At least he's not praying to win games like some people.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:52 PM
Aug 2016


There's getting to be too much religion in football these days, I'm throwing all my steeler stuff away and tuning out.
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
19. I don't give a fuck about overpaid athletes.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:09 PM
Aug 2016

Their opinions mean nothing.

How does he feel about all the murders in Chicago?

babylonsister

(170,963 posts)
21. "Quarterback says country is a disaster: Ban him....
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:13 PM
Aug 2016

Real estate developer says country is a disaster: Nominate him for President.”
- Bob Schooley on Twitter.
 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
27. From people shouting "Make America Great Again"
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:47 PM
Aug 2016

Well if it's not great, why the fuck should you care if he stands or not?

 

The_Casual_Observer

(27,742 posts)
30. This is the sort of bullshit that is grist for the rw AM radio crowd.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:50 PM
Aug 2016

There isn't an god damn law that says you have to stand up. It's all crazy.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
34. It Is His Right
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:14 PM
Aug 2016

Everyone is not treated equally in this country.

The right wingers who rip him for this, saying it is unpatriotic don't understand patriotism.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
35. Kaep is HONORING the TRUE meaning of what the U.S. flag represents.
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:24 PM
Aug 2016

Freedom to say and do what you without harming others -while paranoid, racist, hate-mongers sling crap at you.

yeah, what else is new?

Nothing new under the sun..

GoCubsGo

(32,061 posts)
37. I am FAR more offended by those who think they are the arbiters of what is or is not "pariotism."
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:32 PM
Aug 2016

Last time I looked, this was still more or less a free country, and not a fascist, dictatorial state where people are forced to stand at attention for nationalistic songs, or pledge allegiance to a flag and its country's leaders. This isn't North Korea, but there are sure enough people who want to turn it into another one.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
42. this person who happens to be an athlete
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 08:23 PM
Aug 2016

and social awareness has my respect, money andd false patriotism has not made him a hypocrite. I'm like someone posted below. If trumpenfuhrer wins, I WILL NEVER stand again for the national anthem that represents a certain segment of our population and is representative of a country that shits on many other citizens without hope of ever seeing racism die in this country.. Fuck the hypocrites that are whining. This has always been a safe haven for their hypocrisy and bullshit. Fox news prime example. YOUGODUDE!!!!!!!

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
44. Turning their backs to the flag
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 08:29 PM
Aug 2016

My daughter played on a Women's College Hockey team at the beginning of the Iraq War. At one game the Canadian players on both teams turned their backs to the American Flag when the Anthem was being played. Then the American players did the same. People in the stands started sitting down. It all just kind of spread and really showed just how so many players and spectators felt about the Iraq War. It wasn't about America, but what America, and a certain President, was DOING.

It made national news, and it spread to other college sporting events at the time. You must have heard of it.


shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
48. Do Jehovah's Witnesses stand for the flag etc. Other groups?
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 08:42 PM
Aug 2016

I fail to see how one man expressing himself is such a tragedy? Instead, how about some dialogue without the invectives and calls to patriotism? I'm a retired veteran, spent time in Uncle Donald's sand box and personally, I am sick of the god and country crap that surrounds our sporting events. I do stand at the playing of the anthem, but I don't get filled with pride. I mostly remember the BS I saw and smelled in Iraq and the guys who didn't come home or came home feeling far from OK.

When teaturds fly their flags upside down, I don't hear the outcry from the patriotic crowd. Nobody seems to blast the KKK when they display old glory. I think a lot of this comes from being taught to pledge allegiance to the flag at an early age, and all too often. Orwell knew how this worked and so do the powers that be. We're taught to strive for conformity and genuflect to authority. Going against the grain is tricky business - especially when it involves the flag.

If the American people truly knew what a complete crime the invasion of Iraq was, we'd be out in the streets burning flags until lil' george and dick and rummy and their minions were arrested and put on trial!!!!

USA USA



 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
61. I worked with a JW woman in public school
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 12:13 PM
Aug 2016

When the kids stood for the Pledge and faced the flag, she went to the back of the room to do paperwork. She told me something to the effect that her religion considered it worshiping a false god. Another time a Wiccan student said basically the same thing.

If these people want to scream about Muslims not being patriotic and blasting that religion, will they make the same accusations against Jehovah Witnesses and Wiccans also? We've heard about Atheists refusing to say "under God" in the Pledge many, many times in the past.

There is an agenda in this country against all people of a particular religion, and it is being fueled for political gains.

JanMichael

(24,847 posts)
67. I do it every time I say it. One nation, indivisible, and justice for all. It's a 1.5 second pause.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 06:28 PM
Aug 2016

Atheist.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
54. Freedom = conformity and obedience!
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 01:23 AM
Aug 2016

Implied the yahoos who were, of course, not talking about their own freedom to do whatever they want to anybody and anything.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
60. Simplest Possible Solution
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 12:12 PM
Aug 2016

Quit playing the national anthem before sporting events. Has nothing to do with the reason anybody is there, or watching on TV.

Iggo

(47,489 posts)
62. People fought and killed and died so he would have that right.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 12:16 PM
Aug 2016

Again I say: People love freedom 'til someone expresses some.

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