A cog in the machine

[HerrKarlMarx]

Let me start off by saying I recognize Marx had fewer answers than he did have criticisms. It's always easier to complain about what you don't like than to articulate how you would things better.

Nevertheless, I have always found him a fascinating figure for ideas like the ones expounded in this video

In other words, he argues that every person takes a certain amount of pride in their work, that they would be more productive if they saw more of themselves in that final product. Yet capitalism seeks to downplay their role and continue to make the bourgeois the heroes of the day.

How often have we heard, 'Get a job you f**king slob' as the answer to someone's economic hardships? Capitalist are very good at turning productivity into a sort of character test. If you're a worker who contributes the least economically, then no matter how hard you work, you're a liability at best. But if you're a capitalist who invests a great deal of money, then how matter how little you work, you're a wonderful and infallible contributer to society.

Therein lies the genius of Marx. He is not so much praising the (partially unknown) virtues of socialism and communism, as he is pointing out that our present economy, that wonderful free market capitalism that so many people keep praising, essentially devaluates our humanity.

Capitalism does nothing but treat human workers as cold and replaceable parts in our economic machine.

[Hekate]

1. You joined to tell us this?

[HerrKarlMarx]

2. I beg your pardon?

Many progressives still think that being exploited by capitalists is a virtue. Many progressives still think that praising Marx is the authoritarian equivalent of wanting to chase people around with the KGB, Stasi, etc. I was simply sharing my point of view.

[elleng]

3. Thanks.

Thinking is valued around here, by some anyway.

[msanthrope]

8. If you are troubled by the lack of "thinking" here, why do you stay?

Surely, if you have found a more erudite site, please let us know.

[Hekate]

6. Your profile says you're in Leipzig. Have you lived in the US much? Do you know our 2-party system?

Are you aware that because we do not have a parliamentary system, we are stuck with two major parties?

DU welcomes people from all over the planet, but DU is dedicated to getting Democrats elected to public office in the US. We have a proud liberal/progressive heritage within the Democratic Party history, even though it waxes and wanes with the times. We welcome vigorous debate -- and in the primary elections just past, a vigorous debate was had between Hillary Clinton, a lifelong Democrat willing to compromise to get things done, and Bernie Sanders, a lifelong Socialist/Independent who is progressive but unwilling to compromise.

Bernie Sanders ran as a Democrat and ended up having a good effect on the Democratic Party platform. But Hillary Clinton won the primary election and is now our candidate. That's how it works. One person gets to go forward to the general election. Now we will decide if Hillary or Donald Trump will be the next president.

There will be no coalitions with the Greens or Libertarians in Congress, because we do not have a parliament. There are two major parties and a bare scattering of Independents. Office holders on the Libertarian spectrum generally call themselves Republicans. Those on the Green or Socialist spectrum usually call themselves Democrats and caucus (vote) with the Democrats in Congress.

No one imagines "that being exploited by capitalists is a virtue" -- that is a straw man. Capitalism is a given, and was recognized in colonial times and from the earliest days of our nation. But it is subject to regulation and to change.

We have not perfected our nation, nor are we likely to, but the tradition of social justice is as enduring as ever. We complain, but this is our home we are complaining about.

Most posters at DU are aware of Karl Marx and his philosophy. If people want to discuss it with you, enjoy yourself. I would simply encourage you to read the Terms of Service that you signed upon joining, and refrain from linking us to such sites as Russian Times even if you find something there you really want to share.

Remember, what we are trying to do at DU at this very moment is get Democratic Party candidates elected and change the course of history.

[HerrKarlMarx]

12. Great post

In the interest of honesty, I'm originally from the US, but I've lived in many places, including Leipzig. Now I'm back in the States, so I've edited my profile again... now without any specifics, because I also don't care to divulge too much personal information.

My post wasn't as much an attack on Democrats in particular as in trying to challenge commonly-held beliefs in general. You say that most at DU are aware of Karl Marx and his philosophy, and yet I keep running into progressives - both in the US and Europe - who will defend capitalism as though it were the One True Faith.

That is why I mentioned that some progressives imagine "being exploited by capitalists is a virtue." I won't ever defend the terrifying weaknesses of the Communists, and I won't pretend to have all the perfect answers. I love the idea of a society where we all work together not for personal gain but for the "common good," and yet I also understand this kind of society is currently beyond the state of humainity.

Nevertheless, capitalism is deeply flawed, and therefore it troubles me greatly that we have people from all political backgrounds arguing capitalism somehow directly translates character and effort into profit, and that offering criticism against this system somehow turns you into a heartless authoritarianism who cares mostly about exerting power over as many people as possible.

[pinboy3niner]

13. As flawed as it is, capitalism works

More utopian systems have been tried and have failed. Progressives have sought to improve our capitalist system through stronger and more comprehensive regulation. We're still working for that.

What alternative approach would you advocate?

[wcast]

4. I will watch your video when I get home. On mobile.

I do agree with your 4th paragraph. We are conditioned to blame others for their difficulties while thinking we personally deserve everything we get.

How many times have we heard the argument that we shouldn't pay $15 an hour for flipping hamburgers or pensions should be done away with. We devalue workers, while expecting more, while the rich get richer.

[HerrKarlMarx]

5. Thank you

I'll admit, I'm not the most eloquent person. Sometimes I have a million thoughts running through my head, and then I find it difficult to condense them to a few sentences.

Anyway, as I've said, I won't pretend that Herr Marx has all the answers. I don't know the answers myself. On the other hand, he does offer a very stunningly powerful rebuke to those who keep arguing that capitalism, particularly of the laissez-faire kind, is the answer to economic freedom and empowerment.

[wcast]

9. I hear what you are saying.

Unfortunately capitalism, imho, is the main religion in America. Somehow, just as with our voting, we have a large swath of people who get shafted by capitalism but will fight to the death to keep it just the way it is.

Here is an interesting article about reforming capitalism in the U.S.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/column-capitalism-shareholders-time-for-reform/

[msanthrope]

7. Hannah Bell did these threads so much better. nt

[Hekate]

10. He may be new to this shtick

[Egnever]

11. His argument falls apart right here

he argues that every person takes a certain amount of pride in their work

Complete nonsense. Many do it just for the paycheck and could not give a rats about the job they do. I will agree that many corporations ensure they get no more than an adequate at best job by doing the least they possibly can for their workers.

That said assigning people jobs will in no way cure that.

Look to companies that value their employees like say Costco or Google to see capitalism done right.