5 of America's fastest growing jobs pay less than $25,000

[brentspeak]

Link to this thread the next time someone posts the jumpy-smiley thing celebrating the latest fraudulent U-3 figures.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/18/news/economy/fastest-growing-jobs/?iid=EL

5 of America's fastest growing jobs pay less than $25,000
by Tami Luhby @Luhby
April 18, 2016: 4:57 AM ET

It's certainly easier to find work these days than in the depths of the Great Recession. But, a good job is still hard to find.

Among the 10 jobs projected to grow the fastest in coming years, half pay less than $25,000 a year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And three-quarters pay less than the typical annual wage of $35,540.

[JayhawkSD]

1. Fifty years ago we were speaking of the "service economy."

My father commented "Hell, we can't all make a living selling each other hamburgers."

No, we have to add in massages, trips to the bathroom, and clothing, but apparently, yes, we can all make a living selling crap to each other.

I'll pay you $100 to mow my lawn, you pay me $100 to mow your lawn, and we'll both get rich.

[Adrahil]

2. Well....

Wealth is injected into an economy by creating value. Service jobs can add value, but traditionally, value is added by introducing products into the economy. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. And by interesting, I mean scary.

[lpbk2713]

3. Just to get by now ...

Some of us sell hamburgers in the morning job, chicken
in the afternoon job, and tacos in the evening job.

[Wounded Bear]

4. Wrong....

they sell egg mcmuffins in the morning.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

40. Well, to be accurate ...

they now sell in the afternoons and evenings as well.

[whatthehey]

5. Well surely that means the median income is dropping like a rock!

...wait, no it doesn't and no it isn't. Luckily there are more than 5 kinds of jobs eh?

[brentspeak]

6. Did you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Wages Have Been Stagnant For 40 Years But It’s Not The Fault Of American Workers

Charting wage stagnation

The American Middle Class Hasn’t Gotten A Raise In 15 Years

[whatthehey]

7. I expect people to take data more seriously than opinion pieces

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

[brentspeak]

8. You mean this kind of data?

The U.S. middle class had $17,867 less income in 2007 because of the growth of inequality since 1979

.538


Workers produced much more, but typical workers’ pay lagged far behind

.538

Wages of young college grads have been falling since 2000

http://www.epi.org/publication/class-of-2014/

And I didn't even cite the charts displaying inflation and the growing household debt trend impacting much of Americans' bank accounts.

Sorry if your personal investments take a hit because of economic reality. Feel-good propaganda can take the stock market only so far.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. That's only a bad thing

when the president is a republican.

[1939]

19. The 1950s

were when we depression babies were coming of age. There weren't very many of us and immigration was really restricted and tough. There was a severe labor shortage. The problem were the boomers and few (effective) controls on immigration flooding the labor market with bodies. A labor shortage (pushing the rental costs of labor up) became a labor surplus (holding down the rental costs of labor). Supply and demand.

[merrily]

28. please tell me you forgot the sarcasm emote. Either that, or I strongly suggest

you vote the 1950s workers straight the hell out of office. Damn workers, causing 2016 problems over sixty years later by not refunding their 1950s salaries to their 1950s bosses. They should never have been in control of both legislation and their employers and they certainly should not have stayed in control all these years. Vote the so and sos out! And make them free their employers, too!



IMO, generational warfare is not insightful or productive.

[JayhawkSD]

25. Let's get it straight about productivity and higher wages.

The chart clearly dispels the myth that higher productivity leads to higher wages. It proves, in fact, that labor unionism uses higher productivity as a tool, a trade off, to produce higher wages. The split in those two lines coincides precisely with the decline of labor unions.

[inanna]

17. Thanks for links.

Life today fucking sucks.

Glad to know I not imagining this...

[Angel Martin]

46. I think you wanted this graph

Median for full time individuals - the problem with that is you lay off a bunch of lower paid full time people or convert them to part time and the median goes up !

Households don't go anywhere, but their income is now lower after 8 years of "recovery", than during the recession

[AwakeAtLast]

10. None of those require a college education either

They want us poor and uneducated, that is clear.

[JayhawkSD]

11. Don't get me started on this college kick

It used to be that working as a millwright, or a pipefitter, or a welder, or an electrician was a respectable and well paying job. A person could work at that job and, as a single wage earner, buy a house and a car and provide the amenities for a family. And he could hold his head high and be proud of his profession.

I worked for years as an industrial maintenance electrician and made more money than any of my three college educated siblings.

How did that happen? Thank the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

Don't talk to me about being uneducated. I am proud of my career. I was good at what I did, I enjoyed the work and the people I worked with, and I was respected by my brothers and sisters for my military service and for the work that I did after I left the service.

This society needs tradespeople willing to work hard, and it needs an ethic that respects and rewards them.

[madville]

12. There are still trades jobs

They are hard work though. I went to welding school 20 years ago and then joined the military where I got trained in electronics (primarily radio and RADAR).

The last 16 years I've been on 24-hour call, traveled all over (tax free per diem , etc. I'm on a project in a foreign country right now making around $2000 a week salary plus per diem through March then I'll go back to my regular stateside job that's about $30 an hour but not too demanding at 40 hours a week and no on-call.

There are many decent paying jobs in the electronics field I'm in right now, takes training, licenses, certifications and building a resume of experience. I've helped a couple of younger people get into it, there is opportunity but it takes time and effort.

[TheFrenchRazor]

15. true, but there aren't nearly enough of those type of jobs; that's the whole problem.

sure, there are still some good jobs to be found, but there are far more job-seekers than there are jobs that could provide a decent living in this country. we need an economy that works for the majority, not just for a few.

[madville]

27. It's surprisingly tough to find employable and qualified people

It compounds the problem when a large portion of job seekers are ineligible for the available opportunity. We sometimes have a hard time finding and retaining good people. Most business owners and managers I know have similar experiences across different industries. It is amazing how many people are either unemployable or can't last more than a year without getting fired.

Some examples:
- Many trades require driving a company vehicle. Many people that apply either have had a DUI in the last 5 years or don't have a drivers license for whatever reason.
- State and Federal Contracts/Bonding - Many can't pass a background check/investigation for a laundry list of reasons.
- Drug testing - Half the people we have fired are for this reason. Usually tied to or triggered by suspected theft of company property when it involves stimulants or barbiturates.
- Some just cannot handle working without close supervision, basically they need a babysitter and cannot function independently.
- Some are simply lazy or have no attention span or can't be disconnected from social media/video game for an 8 hour shift.

When we find a dedicated, responsible, experienced employee that has a clean criminal and driving record, we do everything within reason (and sometimes beyond) to keep and take care of them. There are problems with that group too though, they can easily get a job anywhere and quickly so they are harder to retain especially when they get a "the grass is greener over there" idea (which I'm guilty of myself).

[Recursion]

44. The IBEW will take you as an apprentice, tomorrow, if you show up

Skilled trades are absolutely desperate to fill positions.

[davidn3600]

38. There is still a lot of nepotism in the trades, and entry level is not really entry level anymore

It's difficult to get your foot in the door in many places. "Entry level" even requires experience now and it pays garbage.

Now...it's fine when you are a young kid living with your parents. When you are 18-20 you can take a cheap job for 5 years and learn. But if you get even a little older when you got rent payments and medical bills and food prices keep going up it's hard to take a an entry level $20k a year job to learn. It becomes financially impossible.

And career change is especially bad for workers aged above 40. Your career disappears when you are 45 and you still have to work another 20 years to get to retirement. Where do you go? Who's going to hire you?

[inanna]

18. Excellent post, thank you!

Would rec a thousand times if I could...

[uponit7771]

20. K all what you wrote still doesn't take away from the fact that this is no longe 1962...

... and walking out of high school with a diploma and a living wage job is no longer available.

[JayhawkSD]

23. So, what? You want to start at the top?

I started in the Navy as an E-1 at about $0.84 per hour. When I left the Navy as a fully qualified electrician I had to serve as an apprentice before the union made me a journeyman. I didn't start my career making more than my siblings who went to college, I had to earn that higher pay.

That is not entirely about the government, either. It's about thinking differently.

Post #12 says that there are still trades jobs and adds, "They are hard work though." Of course they are hard work. You don't need to tell me that. I worked for more than twenty years in one of those jobs. I didn't mind hard work. In fact, I pretty much expected for my job to be hard work. I thrived on hard work. I welcomed the challenge of hard work.

Today we want to be the college kid who invents some silly computer gadget and sells it for millions so that we never have to work again. Or we buy lottery tickets because we're going to win the big one and live without having to work for the rest of our lives. And so a society dies. Not from what its government did or didn't do, but from the sloth generated by its own wealth.

[madville]

33. Depends on your definition of a living wage

it's still pretty cheap in most places to be single, have roommates, a used car and live pretty decent while starting out in an entry-level job or going to school. I lived pretty well and cheap between the ages of 18-21, we had no internet, tv service, cell phones, computers, etc though, drove used trucks, lived with 1 or 2 roommates in mediocre neighborhoods or out in rural areas. It was the best, most simple time of my life before I had tons more responsibility and make 10x as much now, I would go back to that time and standard of living in a heartbeat.

I also remember making $800 a month when I went in the military at 21. I guess it skews my perception of what a living wage in this current era should be, what many people now view as necessities didn't exist back then or were expensive perks.

[rjsquirrel]

31. Used to be

minorities couldn't vote too.

Used to be legal segregation.

Used to be women couldn't rise in professional careers.

Used to be men did a lot less child care labor, because their wives did it for "free."

Used to be a lot of things. Some of the bad things were not unrelated to your image of the middle class working man.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

34. Understood.

The fifties were a great era for some people. Not everyone shares that nostalgia. I turn off PBS when they run those "remember those great old songs from back then?" shows. You know what? The music was great, but not much else.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

32. Let's not be too hasty....

Last edited Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:24 PM - Edit history (3)

Google IBEW community colleges to see about the IBEW/NECA NJATC apprenticeship programs at community colleges.

I said a few months back that I thought utility line worker* was a good career choice:

"... skip college and learn a trade like plumbing that probably won't be shipped overseas."

The problem is that anyone can do that. You can go to the library and check out a book on how to do your own plumbing. The barriers to entry barely register a pulse.

My vote is to become an electric utility line worker. This is definitely not a do-it-yourself maintenance procedure. You train and train and train to move up in the ranks. Safety is taken extremely seriously. The barriers to entry are high, and the pay reflects this.

Occupational Outlook Handbook: Line Installers and Repairers

Working conditions can be rough - you go out when no one else does. Who, though, is not happy to see that you are there?

The BLS published their outlook on that career in the Fall 2013 issue of the Occupational and Outlook Quarterly:

Powering the nation: Smart grid careers

Please scroll down to page 5 of that article, or page 30 of that issue of the OOQ.

Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations: Employment/Median Annual Wage

Electrical and electronics repairers, powerhouse, substation, and relay: 16,520/$69,120
Electrical power-line in{s}tallers and repairers: 57,540/$65,690
Telecommunications equipment installers and repairers, except line installers: 130/$70,370

* "line worker" is the OSHA term for what the BLS calls a "line installer."

ETA, Wednesday, July 27:

Hat tip, the July 31, 2014, DOL Newsletter

Toledo Electrical Joint Apprenticeship and Training Committee (JATC)

The Toledo Electrical Joint Apprenticeship and Training Committee (JATC) is committed to not only providing an educated, well-trained workforce through a cooperative labor-management education program, but also to helping workers develop the complex skills, knowledge and abilities needed to retain highly paid, prestigious jobs in the electrical construction industry. The Toledo Electrical JATC pledges to educate workers through diversified on-the-job training supervised by qualified journeypersons and related technical classroom instruction.

In apprenticeship you literally EARN WHILE YOU LEARN. As you advance through your training, you receive predetermined pay increases. As you develop more complex job skills and improve your knowledge, you are rewarded for your hard work. You also LEARN BY DOING. Your on-the-job training is supervised by a qualified journey-level craftsman.

The Toledo Electrical JATC is a bonafide, registered apprenticeship program with the Department of Labor, Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training.

Following, are the recommended steps (although not required) in the process of completing the apprenticeship of your choice:

Residential Apprenticeship Program - Students spend four (4) years in this particular program, learning to install power, communication, and security systems according to local codes and standards. Upon completion, they become Residential Wiremen and are invited to apply to the Inside/Commercial Electrical Wiring Apprenticeship Program.

Inside/Commercial Electrical Wiring Apprenticeship Five Year Program - Inside electrical construction work involves lay out, assembly, installation, and connection of all electrical apparatus, equipment, fixtures, and wiring used in electrical systems. During this five-year program students attend related trade classes and receive credit from Northwest State Community College . Apprentices complete 8,000 hours of on-the-job training with signatory electrical contractors and, upon completion, receive a journeyman certificate.

Voice-Data-Video (telecommunications) Apprenticeship Program - This three-year apprenticeship program focuses on the telecommunications and data transmission fields and includes trade-related classes for students working toward the Journeyman Installer Technician career path. Apprentices complete 4,500 hours of on-the-job training with signatory electrical contractors and, upon completion, receive a journeyman certificate.

Each of the above apprenticeship programs provide a clear-cut path for career development and occupational training, limited only by one's interest and aptitude. Quality training programs such as these provide workers with the skills, knowledge, and abilities necessary to maintain performance superiority leading to a high standard of living.

The recruitment, selection, employment, and training of apprentices shall be without discrimination because of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, or age. The sponsor will take affirmative action to provide equal opportunity in apprenticeship and will operate the apprenticeship program as required under Title 29 of the Code of Federal Regulations, part 30, and the equal employment opportunity regulations of the state of Ohio.

PHONE: [phone] ~ FAX: [phone]

[AwakeAtLast]

36. None of those jobs are trade jobs either

My husband was an electrician before being deployed to Iraq and now works in IT. He does not have a college education but did have to train beyond high school. A lot of high schools no longer have classes in trades. They don't want to spend the money on faculty.

I never once called skilled tradespeople or service members uneducated in my post.

The fact that low skill/non-degree jobs are what are increasing in demand should tell us all something.

[The2ndWheel]

39. I would say they don't really care one way or another

More and more people aren't needed.

[Photographer]

13. K&R

[TheFrenchRazor]

14. nothing to see here folks, move along... nt

[Cresent City Kid]

21. The purpose of capitalism is to create capital for capitalists

Job creation is a side effect. In the early 20th century the business model was to produce millions of things for the cost of a penny, sold to millions of people for a nickel, employing thousands was necessary to achieve this. Now machines do most of the work in the factories that remain.

There are a lot of holdovers from the Victorian age, the structure of the education system, morality, income inequality, etc. Mass employment was doomed, only needing technological efficiency to replace it.

[JayhawkSD]

24. Side effect?

Henry Ford paid higher wages so that his employees could afford to buy his cars.

[Cresent City Kid]

30. He did

Did he start the company to sell cars or hire auto workers? My point was that our economic system isn't being manipulated to benefit the few, it was designed that way from the beginning.

[KatyaR]

22. I was shocked to find that

cooks, food prep, and care aides are all considered STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) careers. They were on a list of the most needed STEM jobs in the next several years, right up there with engineers, doctors, and researchers. Sigh.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

29. By whom? NT

[edhopper]

26. A $15 minimum wage

is absolutely necessary.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

35. And now, from those jumpy-smiley folks at the BLS,

here's the source for the CNN article:

Fastest growing occupations

It lists 30 occupations. That means, that if "5 of America's fastest growing jobs pay less than $25,000," then 25 of the 30 occupations listed in the table of fastest growing occupations pay more than (or equal to) $25,000. The highest-paying of those 30 occupations is optometrist, at $103,900. The median wage for all 30 occupations is $36,200.

So, an alternative title for the CNN article is:

[font color=red]"25 of America's 30 fastest growing occupations pay at least $25,000, and in some cases, much more."[/font]

Jeepers!

I can hardly wait until the first Friday in August, when the BLS releases more swell employment data.

I think I'll watch a video until then:

[gd770226]

41. Another way to say is : 1/2 of the jobs created in the hottest job categories pay < $18 hr.

Since the median of these jobs is 36K, that is roughly $18 hr. And since most people here consider 15 an hour what the bare minimum should be, these jobs don't really seem like anything to be so happy about.

Sure the economy is creating jobs, but a high percentage of them SUCK. This economy really has sucked since 9/11/2001.

[Calista241]

37. This is why Trump appeals to a lot of people.

We scoff at his comments and his speech at the RNC at our own peril.

We, Obama, and Hillary can all get up there and laugh and tell each other things are going great, but a very large percentage of our population does not agree.

[vintx]

42. Yep!

Sadly the money-chasing repub lite types insist on doing as little as possible to upset their grateful donors.

The risk of a trump presidency is apparently acceptable - to them.

We know Trump has no qualms about screwing workers over, but he says whatever he wants regardless of how close to reality it actually is, and a lot of people don't like to read or think too much and are easily led.

[Recursion]

43. Umm.. that's roughly the median individual income, so, yeah

And, incidentally, the median income is currently the highest it's ever been in inflation adjusted terms.

But, yeah: half of the fastest growing jobs pay less than the median income.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

45. 5 of America's fastest growing jobs pay more than $89,000 per year

Optometrists
$103,900

Nurse practitioners
$98,190

Physician assistants
$98,180

Nurse midwives
$92,510

Personal financial advisors
$89,160