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Wow! Just Fucking Wow! (Original Post) trumad Jul 2016 OP
Detail from photographer on what is happening, from your link: MADem Jul 2016 #1
"protect and serve" Amimnoch Jul 2016 #2
Petitioning occurs at government offices. Peaceably assembling includes peaceably dispersing. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #3
I don't recall sangfroid Jul 2016 #17
Civil disobedience Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #37
Love your comments on this guy. trumad Jul 2016 #21
He's a true hero and an inspiration to us all. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #36
So is she. trumad Jul 2016 #38
Yes. A very American inspiration. She stepped up and stood up. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #39
Absolutely! Thank you! gopiscrap Jul 2016 #43
Great post n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #35
Thanks for your kind words. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #40
Getting arrested Craig234 Jul 2016 #4
Because rational argument has worked so well? eom. Amimnoch Jul 2016 #5
I'm saying it should. Craig234 Jul 2016 #33
Sometimes it takes an arrest to get peoples attention: Lochloosa Jul 2016 #16
yup gopiscrap Jul 2016 #44
Here’s the story of Ieshia Evans, the 28-year-old mother from that iconic photo IronLionZion Jul 2016 #6
a nurse SheriffBob Jul 2016 #11
This photo, itself, is an image that is effective because its a "good image" for white people. glowing Jul 2016 #7
Anything that works. GaYellowDawg Jul 2016 #10
She has a regal bearing Ellen Forradalom Jul 2016 #51
the policemen look like cyborgs barbtries Jul 2016 #8
Looks like THEY, not her, dressed for a riot. . . DinahMoeHum Jul 2016 #9
Two great photos in on OP, thanks! marble falls Jul 2016 #12
Awesome Ohioblue22 Jul 2016 #15
yep nt barbtries Jul 2016 #32
Wow. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2016 #49
Does her being a thin and attractive woman have anything to do with the popularity of this photo? oberliner Jul 2016 #13
More that she looks peaceful IronLionZion Jul 2016 #19
+1 In_The_Wind Jul 2016 #29
Exactly. Even the wind seems to be cooperating to create this stunning image. Midnight Writer Jul 2016 #53
Uh no trumad Jul 2016 #22
So if this photo was of an overweight male, the image would have been just as powerful and popular? oberliner Jul 2016 #24
How the fuck do you know? trumad Jul 2016 #25
If the overweight male stood with as much poise & dignity as her, then yes, just as powerful. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #41
Yes, it very well could Amimnoch Jul 2016 #46
Look at these fk-ing cowards Ohioblue22 Jul 2016 #14
After Dallas, what do you expect? Evergreen Emerald Jul 2016 #18
Yea maybe she's hiding a bazooka under her sun dress Ohioblue22 Jul 2016 #30
I think they were dressed like that before she was there Evergreen Emerald Jul 2016 #55
Iconic photo that will win awards. TexasMommaWithAHat Jul 2016 #20
Reminds me of Tiananmen Square Zambero Jul 2016 #23
The two couldn't be more different. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #26
The outcomes were different Zambero Jul 2016 #28
Her strength has literally rocked them back. MirrorAshes Jul 2016 #27
This picture is a Rorschach (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jul 2016 #31
True, ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #34
Fantastic photo bigwillq Jul 2016 #42
The equanimity she is displaying is what makes the photo striking. Moostache Jul 2016 #45
K&R, bookmarked. raven mad Jul 2016 #47
goosebumps, chills and tearing eyes BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2016 #48
No words ailsagirl Jul 2016 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jul 2016 #52
I have heard her called a new Statue of Liberty colorado_ufo Jul 2016 #54

MADem

(135,425 posts)
1. Detail from photographer on what is happening, from your link:
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 06:59 AM
Jul 2016
Bachman told The Atlantic police in riot gear were moving protesters off the Airline Highway to the side of the road when he saw the woman calmly plant her feet and refuse to leave. He said, for the most part, the demonstrations in the city have been peaceful and the woman’s actions reflected that:

It happened quickly, but I could tell that she wasn’t going to move, and it seemed like she was making her stand. To me it seemed like: You’re going to have to come and get me. And I just thought it seemed like this was a good place to get in position and make an image, just because she was there in her dress and you have two police officers in full riot gear.

It wasn’t very violent. She didn’t say anything. She didn’t resist, and the police didn’t drag her off.

The woman was released from police custody late Sunday evening, according to New York Daily News reporter Shaun King.



It's a very compelling photo. The contrast between the woman's light weight summer dress and that extra-heavy protective gear the police have on (no doubt on edge after the police shootings in Dallas) is quite stark.
 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
2. "protect and serve"
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 07:22 AM
Jul 2016

Remind me which of these this is accomplishing?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,075 posts)
3. Petitioning occurs at government offices. Peaceably assembling includes peaceably dispersing.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 07:34 AM
Jul 2016

Her protest was very effective and peaceable. Her disobedience was civil.

The protesters who blocked the interstate and threw rocks and bottles at police were NOT peaceably assembling and did not peaceably disperse and did not peaceably accept arrest. Their disobedience was the opposite of civil.

The people's right to use public highways for the purpose the people intended for them (transportation) has priority when there are numerous other venues for people to peaceably assemble.

No right is absolute. There are Congressional laws prohibiting shouting "Fire" in crowded theaters (or enabling local jurisdictions to make and prosecute such laws). There are Congressional laws prohibiting the publication of national secrets.

 

sangfroid

(212 posts)
17. I don't recall
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 09:02 AM
Jul 2016

Any SCOTUS decision limiting petitioning to government offices. In fact, it is generally argued they can take place anywhere. The action itself is the petitioning, not any faux handing over of a document with a lot of signatures.

The purpose of such demonstrations is to inconvenience the public, to draw their attention to what the demonstrators believe is a wrong. As a veteran road sitter myself (both Iraq Wars), I can tell you that nonviolent civil disobedience is not just a question of nicely dressed people standing in tidy groups in front of the courthouse waiting for the cops to arrive, where upon they all calmly and quietly climb into the paddy wagon. It also includes going limp, shouting slogans while in custody, refusing to cooperate with the booking system, extending solidarity to fellow prisoners, going on a hunger strike or pray-in while inside. These actions may not be "civil" according to your rather constricted definition, but they are certainly nonviolent disobedience.

And as for throwing bottles and rocks, did you know Martin Luther King Jr. Was a communist? Or that BLM is a black nationalist Marxist group? Or the POTUS is not an American? Yes, a cop told me...

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,075 posts)
37. Civil disobedience
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 04:32 PM
Jul 2016
Any SCOTUS decision limiting petitioning to government offices. In fact, it is generally argued they can take place anywhere. The action itself is the petitioning, not any faux handing over of a document with a lot of signatures.


Technically, yes, "petitioning" is drawing the attention of the government to a cause or an issue, regardless of where it takes place.

But, in practice, the government holds office hours and makes available multiple ways to "petition" the government without creating a disturbance or a disruption.

That said, it does not mean that people can't make disturbances or disruptions. They can. But when they do, they must take responsibility and be prepared to suffer ordinary penalties. Additionally, they should not expect to but might risk suffering bad treatment at the hands of the authorities including excessive punishment, harsh handling, injury and death. Nobody should have to suffer such risks, but life is uncertain and the authorities employee an excessive number of bullies, racists, thugs and fascists. (Note: even one is too many.)

The purpose of such demonstrations is to inconvenience the public, to draw their attention to what the demonstrators believe is a wrong.


Correct.

As a veteran road sitter myself (both Iraq Wars), I can tell you that nonviolent civil disobedience is not just a question of nicely dressed people standing in tidy groups in front of the courthouse waiting for the cops to arrive, where upon they all calmly and quietly climb into the paddy wagon.


True.

It also includes going limp, shouting slogans while in custody, refusing to cooperate with the booking system, extending solidarity to fellow prisoners, going on a hunger strike or pray-in while inside.


Those are all valid protest actions. Going limp is an excellent tactic because it is non-resisting but increases the delay and inconvenience. Solidarity is always desirable. Shouting slogans is part of solidarity and effectively promotes the cause. Hunger strikes are very risky and not so effective so I do not recommend them. The only effect of praying is to provide comfort to those who believe in prayer.

These actions may not be "civil" according to your rather constricted definition, but they are certainly nonviolent disobedience.


Yup. With the emphasis on non-violent. Very civil according to my definition which matches with the generally accepted definition of civil disobedience.

And as for throwing bottles and rocks, did you know Martin Luther King Jr. Was a communist? Or that BLM is a black nationalist Marxist group? Or the POTUS is not an American? Yes, a cop told me...


As to that, it is a bunch of gobbledy-gook that has no relationship to the rest of your otherwise excellent post.
 

Craig234

(335 posts)
4. Getting arrested
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 07:38 AM
Jul 2016

I do think we need to value other forms or protest more than getting arrested.

We're supposed to use rational argument for issues.

Someone standing where they're told not to and getting arrested for it getting the lion's share of the media coverage over the actual merits of the issue seems like a mistake.

It doesn't take anything away from the people who act on principle and make that sacrifice while it is so recognized as an action.

But it seems like a misguided price to demand for publicity.

 

Craig234

(335 posts)
33. I'm saying it should.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 12:43 PM
Jul 2016

There's nothing that makes getting arrested a more valuable bit of information than someone stating their position.

It just has a cost to them, and to society - it has a false air of nobility.

What I mean by false air isn't meant to take away from the protester and their principles.

What I mean is that it's more meaningful as a sort of 'protest when rational communication fails'. The Chinese guy who stood in front of the tank, they had few options either - they tried and got killed in Tiananmen Square.

But it's a sort of pointless ritual when it's drive by media and citizens who just react to it and not to the issues.

It's sort of like they hold up a hoop and say "we don't care what you have to say, but jump through this hoop and get arrested for ignoring the police enforcing the law, and we'll report that."

It seems to have become a sort of inflated ritual for us. "Sure you were against injustice, but did you get arrested for it?"

It's destructive in my opinion to buy into it when there isn't a specific reason for it other than to get media attention for the issue - it devalues the people who have the same position but don't want change, asking people to pointlessly get arrested.

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
7. This photo, itself, is an image that is effective because its a "good image" for white people.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 07:58 AM
Jul 2016

If this young lady didn't have a "Malia Obama" look to her, a lighter color, and a thinner frame, along with a dress looking like she came from a church social, I don't think people would be as "wowed" by the young lady. The contrast is dramatic with the police and her peaceful and proud presence, but I wonder if the photographer would have stopped to shoot this photo if this young lady didn't appear as she did?

GaYellowDawg

(4,452 posts)
10. Anything that works.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 08:17 AM
Jul 2016

People are always more "wowed" by aesthetics. Do you think that the appeal or effectiveness of the photo is limited to white people? And why complain if an image is appealing to white people? Wouldn't you think that's a good thing, as white people are the ones who need the most to become more aware?

And on a total side note, not meant to distract from the point: I can't speak for all white people, but I find a lot of colors, from very pale to very dark, very appealing if someone's skin is healthy. Being cis and hetero, I find a wide variety of female shapes and colors appealing. Beauty comes in an amazing number of packages. I just wish a wide variety of shapes and colors found me appealing!

Ellen Forradalom

(16,160 posts)
51. She has a regal bearing
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 01:09 AM
Jul 2016

Firmly in command of herself, thus the situation.

The composition of the photo also heightens the contrast between her, stable and balanced on her feet, and the cops, reeling and staggering.

That is a function not simply of her physique, but how she inhabits it.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. So if this photo was of an overweight male, the image would have been just as powerful and popular?
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 09:45 AM
Jul 2016

With everything else about the image being the same?

Somehow, I don't think so.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,075 posts)
41. If the overweight male stood with as much poise & dignity as her, then yes, just as powerful.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 04:42 PM
Jul 2016

See the guy with the tanks. Not overweight, but male and in very dull clothing.

Evergreen Emerald

(13,071 posts)
55. I think they were dressed like that before she was there
Wed Jul 13, 2016, 09:44 AM
Jul 2016

Do you expect them to change clothes when she walked up? Remember that in Dallas, they were not wearing the riot gear. They were vulnerable to attack. We need to get rid of the citizenry use of military weaponry.

Zambero

(8,981 posts)
23. Reminds me of Tiananmen Square
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jul 2016

Peaceful freedom of expression confronted by colossal overkill. This one needs to go viral.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
26. The two couldn't be more different.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 09:50 AM
Jul 2016

She will soon be on talk shows; most believe the tank guy was executed. After the Chinese government slaughtered thousands of its own citizens.

Zambero

(8,981 posts)
28. The outcomes were different
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jul 2016

However, the reactions to the two footages might be more similar than you realize. I can't speak for others, but it It certainly was for me. Repression takes on many forms. It does not have to be lethal in order to be overkill. Implied violence toward those who dare "Step over the line" is still intimidation. Hopefully it does not escalate further, on the basis of so-called "outside agitators" who are no less entitled to exercise their Constitutional and civil rights.

MirrorAshes

(1,262 posts)
27. Her strength has literally rocked them back.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 09:54 AM
Jul 2016

There she is, standing tall and unafraid, while they falter under the weight of their militarized fear. Beautiful.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
34. True,
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 03:57 PM
Jul 2016

but most to all things are as well. We see and understand things from our own experiences and belief systems.

Moostache

(9,897 posts)
45. The equanimity she is displaying is what makes the photo striking.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 06:08 PM
Jul 2016

Perfect calm, perfect posture, steadfast expression. The juxtaposition of the calm citizen and a police force and charging officers dressed for mortal combat speaks volumes of where justice lies in this issue. It is often said that long term trends bend towards justice - civil rights, voting rights, women's suffrage, gay marriage, etc.

In this image, pretty woman or not (which is largely subjective and in the eye of the beholder), thin or not (which some find as a hallmark of 'beauty' and others not so much), what captures my attention is that juxtaposition that I see. This is bound to become an icon image, and I hope it garners as much attention as possible.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
47. K&R, bookmarked.
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 07:02 PM
Jul 2016

Her strength and incandescence are an inspiration to everyone. Beauty and compassion of soul and heart vs. militarized combat cops. Absolutely an inspiration, trumad, thanks so much for this. Yes, this old white hippie remembers that the bad old days are still here.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
48. goosebumps, chills and tearing eyes
Mon Jul 11, 2016, 08:17 PM
Jul 2016

As I look at that photograph.

edit to add:

It calls to every archetypal image humans have revered for many thousands of years.

Response to trumad (Original post)

colorado_ufo

(5,744 posts)
54. I have heard her called a new Statue of Liberty
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:45 AM
Jul 2016

and that was my first impression. Amazing, iconic. A new Lady for our times, clutching her cell phone - a symbol of free speech and communication - in one hand, the other gracefully open and accepting.

The power of God and good flows through her. She stood up not just for Black people, but for America, for all people, and for me. And I thank her.

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