General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGetting more conservative as you get older?
I swore it wouldn't happen to me, but here I am, not even "that old" (late 30s), and I'm more conservative than I used to be. Not "conservative" by any stretch, on basically all issues I'm way to the left of most Americans, but not as far left as a I used to be. In my first election, 2000, I was a borderline Naderite.
What are the causes? Some of them I think are good, and some are bad.
Conservatives like to think that it is "wisdom", because they like to think that conservatives are more wise. Which is bullshit. Denying global warming isn't "wise", it's stupid. I do think that in my own particular case, wisdom moved me away from some ideological extremes. For example, 2000 me probably would have wanted Obama just to let all the banks fail, ignoring the major depression that would have ensued. But this works both ways. I have friends that were hard-core libertarians (that was a big thing among young people back then), who have considerably mellowed those views.
Some is risk-aversity. This can be both good and bad. Courage is good, and caution is also good. I think it's just a human thing that young people are more prone to taking bigger risks. Not always, but in general. And I think as a society we need both youthful courage and passion, as well as some of the cautiousness and even cynicism that comes with age.
I also thing some of it is becoming part of "the establishment." When you're 20-ish, you're just starting out your adult life. You can think of just the way the you want the world to be, you don't have to worry about transitioning or adapting, because you haven't started yet. Now, I have a niche in the current system, and I like my niche. Yes, I'm happy to pay more in taxes, I think there should be a stronger safety net, I basically support all liberal policies, but the "tear it all down" rhetoric, which 15 years ago would have appealed to me, I'm not there anymore. This is probably part of why I supported Hillary over Bernie, even though on most issues I'm closer to Bernie.
How have other DUers' political views changed over time?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)I became more liberal as I got older. I can express no opinion here on candidates without risking sanction, which has made me even more radical.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)everything that conservatives believe is incorrect. There is virtually nothing that supports their world view.
30 YEARS OF CONSERVATIVE NONSENSE, AN EXPLAINER
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/politics/2014/11/conservative-nonsense-political-history
Rhiannon12866
(202,970 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)nest
(23 posts)In my 20s but now I view him as extreme
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)Its not bullshit that another poster views him as extreme.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)As in, the poster was expressing THEIR opinion of Sanders.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)and when asked about the Presidential race or politics I usually respond with "I really like Bernie Sanders, but he is just a little bit too far to the Right for me". The conversation and questions usually end about then with some interesting looks on the faces of those who have asked the questions.
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)When my Republican acquaintances bring up politics, I tell them that I'm so far to the Left I can see the Right! It shuts them up pretty quickly.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)that considers Bernie mostly just another Democrat with pretensions to whatever, so that helped narrow down the orientation without bothering to scan for catch phrases and jargon. it's easy to forget here that there is a whole world farther to the left.
appleannie1
(5,042 posts)I will be 73 in a few days and I am twice as liberal now than I was in my 30's. But I think it all has to be kept in balance. It is the extremes that are hurting this country. Extreme religion, extreme greed, extreme "My way or the the highway". In order for all people to get along together, you have to give and take. Pick your fights with care, not just demand all. Politics is sort of like a marriage that way. But when something is really important, give it your all and then some.
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)TheKentuckian
(24,934 posts)them from my ideological house.
Reality and experience has taught that neoliberal policy is just full of shit conservatism with a more flowery and high minded sounding rationale for the same toxic scams and lies.
merrily
(45,251 posts)TheKentuckian
(24,934 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Certainly not Bernie or most of his supporters.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)A more concrete example is Single Payer. That would be a form of "tearing it all down". Nobody would get to keep their private insurance, including people like me who have insurance that I like, and doctors that I like. Yes, the insurance system now is a mess, but I've managed to navigate it.
Single Payer gets passed, suddenly it's a whole new system, with new problems (yes, there are going to be a lot of problems), and everyone has to start all over navigating it. I'd much rather see a public option, leaving the current system in place for people who like it, but giving everyone a chance to be covered by a single payer system if they want. Even make the public option a default opt-out thing, so that if you don't have private insurance, then you automatically get covered by Medicare. That's fine. But at this age, as opposed to at 20, I'm less happy about the prospect of a full overhaul of the healthcare system.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)I would just prefer it be an option rather than the only choice. I even think it should be the default. Instead of a "public option" there should be "private options", so you can opt-out of the medicare for all and use private insurance. I've never been on medicare, so I can't say personally whether I would like it more or less than the insurance I have now.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)and choose private insurance instead if they want? I think that would be a lot easier to sell, since you wouldn't be forcing everyone, even people who like their current coverage, into a new system.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Maybe Pete Peterson, but I bet he has it, too.
People do get supplementary insurance.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)our private insurance, and extending medicare to everyone else? And by the way, there are a lot of people who don't want to switch their private coverage to medicare.
merrily
(45,251 posts)to be eligible for Medicare. Quite the opposite, in fact.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I'm happy with it. Why do I have to change? I'm pretty sure my GP doesn't take medicare (I've never actually asked, because it doesn't matter to me, but I would be very surprised). If we went single-payer, I don't know if he would decide to accept medicare or go cash-only, and if it's the latter, that would suck.
Right now, everything I need is covered. I'm a happy customer, I don't want to change. Why do I have to change?
merrily
(45,251 posts)assumption that your GP doesn't take it, but you don't know he doesn't? Hmmm.
If we went single payer, what would be his option if he didn't accept it? Retirement?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Why isn't it enough for everyone who wants medicare to have medicare? Why do people who don't want medicare also have to be forced into medicare?
merrily
(45,251 posts)that would not exist at all if we went single payer.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And it's your assumption that the problem wouldn't exist if we went all single payer. I don't believe that for a second. I know of doctors even now that don't take any insurance at all, and the number of such doctors will only go up if it's all-single-payer because if single payer is going to be affordable, then doctor reimbursements are going to be lower.
Now how about you answer my question. I'm starting to get the feeling you can't. Why do you need me to be part of medicare when I don't want to be? Why can't it be medicare for all who want it, not medicare for all?
merrily
(45,251 posts)take it or close his practice.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)There are plenty of doctors who don't, so if you want, just pretend I'm one of the people who goes to one of those doctors. Also, I have very good insurance all around, I have confidence that whatever I need will be covered, better than with medicare.
And if my doctor decided to close his practice, that would be a big problem for me. More likely, he would not accept any insurance and I would have to pay for every visit. That would also be a problem for me. And if he prescribes something that is covered by my current insurance but not medicare, that would also be a problem. Lots of problems.
Why are you so reluctant to answer my question? Why can't I just keep my insurance, when I'm happy with it? Why does everyone have to have the single payer? Why can't it be an option?
adigal
(7,581 posts)There would be no other way to get paid, so you're setting up a straw man.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)direct payment, that would also be a problem for me.
Now will someone answer the question of why everyone has to be part of medicare, instead of letting people choose? Is it really that hard?
adigal
(7,581 posts)I have excellent insurance, also, but that doesnt mean they can't refuse payment on a procedure. I would rather trust the govt than I soda ce making those decisions. But hey, you like your I sirs ce, so maybe you could keep it by paying for it yourself or a voucher program.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If you'd prefer to be on a government program, that's fine, and I fully support a public option. I just don't see why it needs to be mandatory. Obamacare with a public option seems like the best solution.
mythology
(9,527 posts)In other countries supplemental insurance exists. If we went straight to a medicare for all program without adjusting the provider payments up (particularly to GPs) we would have a major problem. Due to the way we have funded med school based on student loan debt, devalued GPs, had more expensive advanced tests become the norm (I've had probably a dozen Mri scans) and many other reasons, our system is built to survive on just medicare. Realistically, any plan to change our system to a single payer would be a massive shock to the system. There is a reason very few countries have single payer.
I suspect switching directly to single payer would reinforce a worse two track system for health care. Those who are able to afford a secondary insurance or a concierge medical practice and those who can't.
A more measured approach would be to expand the ACA to make it better resemble the system in place in the Netherlands.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Of all people rather than more exclusive privatized systems.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Even with a gold plated plan you'll drown in a sea of paperwork and pay a seemingly endless stream of small co-pays until you reach your annual limits. You'll also have treatments denied based on cost alone without regard to whether alternative approaches are more burdensome on your body and your time.
If you're unlucky, you'll see that your similarly ill relatives who don't have the $$ for more than basic plans make bad choices because they can't pay for the good ones. You'll get better, they don't.
Single payer (or a similar government controlled health care financing approach) would reduce the paper chase, reduce the complexity of payments, and create a standard level of benefits access to all. So long as individuals are still allowed to buy care outside of the Federal plan, it's a win for all.
Response to DanTex (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)I almost completely agree with you, rjsquirrel. Our country is obviously not unified and all of our opponents are not dumb or nefarious. Like you, I have friends and colleagues who are intelligent, contributing members of society who love our country but they have different ideas for our future. (Many of them are distressed by the stupidity of far too many Republicans.) That's how democracy is supposed to work: different points of view coming together to collaboratively solve our problems.
But the rise and glorification of the ignorant by the GOP is self-destructive for our nation. I'll vote a straight Democratic ticket on November 8th.
Response to PJMcK (Reply #17)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I was more likely to march and protest in my early years. These days I gravitate towards things that make sense to me- things that work. I wouldn't say I'm more conservative just more practical
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but, have a better understanding of how the world works ... which allows me to differentiate how the world works from how I wish the world works.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"If {insert unlikely event (series of unlikely events) here} ... constitutes something real.
It's really sad.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)My first vote was for Nixon. Now, I'm one of those who will settle for Bernie, but prefer someone a bit more to the left.
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)I'm in my late 50's and as I've aged, I've thought about your question, DanTex.
Although I've been a Democrat my whole life, I'm far more liberal than I was in my 20's. I think part of that is my reaction to the outrageous lurch to the right by the neoconservatives in the Bush II administration. Part of it is that being a parent has made me more concerned for the future. Part of it is the rise of the Stupid in the Republican party and the idiocy of the Tea Party. (Quick aside: When the Republican primaries began, the 17 candidates were billed as a "deep bench" by the GOP. Really? Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, et al. are all light weights; not one of them (including Governor Christie, Governor Kasich and Governor Gilmore) had the gravitas or, frankly, the real patriotism to be president.)
But the biggest part of my move further leftward is that with age and experience, I'm wiser. Wisdom has taught me that Democrats are better for our country. The economy does better under Democratic presidents. Social programs are strengthened under Democratic policies. Foreign relations are generally better under Democratic administrations. Democrats listen to facts and reason and science, they don't govern "from their gut."
Our country and our world face serious problems. We need the best and the brightest not an idiot like Donald Trump.
emmadoggy
(2,142 posts)Late 40's. Much more liberal now than when I was younger, and for many of the same reasons. I saw the destructive nature of so many of the Republican policies. During the Clinton years, I watched all the crazy, witch-hunt antics. I KNEW before GW ever took office that he would be a disaster, and watched as my fears were far over-shadowed by the reality.
I also credit DU with making me much more informed, much more awake, and yes, much more liberal. I've learned a TON since coming here. The more I've learned and more informed I've become, the more liberal I get. The farther off the deep end the R's go, the farther I want to go in the opposite direction!
1939
(1,683 posts)I become less "utopian" and more "pragmatic".
Some things can be made to work if you are trying to figure out what will work and not just trying to satisfy all of your wants with no compromise.
longship
(40,416 posts)But more likely to be pragmatic, realistic about political reality.
If one wants the Democratic Party to steer left, one has to change it from the bottom-up. Start with the precincts. Get ones delegates at that level, and one has control of the district delegations. Once the districts are in ones hands, the state delegation becomes in reach. Once one has the state delegations, the national party is yours.
That is what the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition did in the late 70's and the 80's with the Republican Party, very effectively I might add.
If one wants to make change, that is how it is done, not by nominating a top of ticket POTUS candidate with the whole, entire party machinery aligned against that candidate.
The deal is:
1. It takes time to accomplish a political revolution.
2. It takes a lot of hard work and organization, mostly at the bottom of the hierarchy. The Moral Majority and Christian Coalition did it by flagrantly violating IRS rules against advocating politics from their pulpits.
We have work to do, and we don't have pulpits. But we do have a very noisy Internet.
If you want to take the party back, run for precinct delegate and get like minded people to join you. Repeat that across the nation.
Maeve
(42,223 posts)Because our life experiences tend to change the way we see the world. I know I am more liberal than I was as a youth--more concerned with fairness and other people--and both my mother and her sister are increasingly liberal in their 80's.We come from the Methodist social service culture, and the RW has pulled away from that, which might be a part of the change.
As for the "tear it all down", that seems to be more from the radicals left AND right; people without the patience to fix things and would rather try 'new'.
spanone
(135,627 posts)dmosh42
(2,217 posts)'idealism' of my twenties, to my leftist position I now have. As you said, wisdom and experience, maybe, helped me realize how the powers to be are always manipulating ideas to sway the dummies. Actually, when I think about it, many leftist ideas of today were somewhat mainstream in the 50s and 60s. You could attend most public universities without any long term debt. I paid about $5 per week for my medical in the 60s, but blue collar wages were about $200 by 1970. But, technology has made today the best time for me.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)katmondoo
(6,454 posts)I have changed with the times!
Aristus
(66,075 posts)As recently as 2000, when I voted for Al Gore, I was still in favor of the death penalty, and supported the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a necessary 'war-winner'.
Not anymore. As far left as I am, I move further that way every year...
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)world wide wally
(21,718 posts)basically remained the same and the country has moved significantly to the right
merrily
(45,251 posts)They've lived it.
Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)Skittles
(152,964 posts)fuck that
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The modern conservative has, in half a century, morphed from "reasonable Eisenhower" to downright mean, stupid, paranoid and neo-fascist. That's an anachronistic way to be in 2016. Politicizing human rights means you aren't evolved yet, sorry. And if you think "President Trump" or "President Palin" are good ideas . . . . no apologies, you're a fucking idiot who needs to get smarter.
Capitalism needs to be heavily regulated and needs to have a far better social safety net than we're graced with. Human rights aren't wedge issues. Paychecks aren't charity. Women's bodies aren't about you, men. We're not "punishing the wealthy"; sell that bullshit to the kids and idiots. We could close off all loopholes, close their offshore shelters, make them pay a 50% TMTR and they still wouldn't even be SNIFFING "punishment". COME on.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Margaret Thatcher represented the demise of the old 'one nation' side of the Conservative Party - her toxic mix of neo-lib economics and rhetoric, coupled with hyper nationalism shifted UK politics and upped the political stakes.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)I know the broad strokes, that she was a union busting, free trading cold warrior, safety net cutting, hateful person, but I don't know anything about her personality or rhetoric. However, I've been reading up on Cameron in the wake of Brexit and dear God that man is an asshole. I'll never forget when he laughed at a Scottish MP over the question of Scottish oil revues being used in Scotland. Whether or not you agree with Brexit or not, at least that asshole is out of Downing Street.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)To produce food sources needed to be paid a livable salary, those who prepared the food, those who transported the products, who cleaned after and those who owned the facility also needed a livable salary then I knew there was nit any free lunches.
merrily
(45,251 posts)k8conant
(3,030 posts)Conservative in the sense that I'm looking forward to retirement, and see that higher inflation will blow me out of the water. Let's say fiscally conservative. Of course, I still feel that Government should spend on things that will lift people out of poverty rather than enrich the few and spend huge amounts on elective wars.
Captain Stern
(2,195 posts)But what everyone else defines as 'conservative' does.
For instance, not that long ago many a 'liberal' opposed same-sex marriage. Today, if that person still opposed same-sex marriage they would be considered a conservative, as far as that one issue went.
merrily
(45,251 posts)You're not saying it in those words, or from that POV, but you are saying it.
Captain Stern
(2,195 posts)As recently as the mid-nineties less than a third of people approved of same-sex marriage. Unless 70% of the country then considered themselves to be conservative, there had to be people that considered themselves to be liberal that opposed same-sex marriage. If one of those people still opposed same-sex marriage today, they would probably consider themselves to be conservative......so, that person would have become more conservative with age, without changing their opinion at all.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Captain Stern
(2,195 posts)But the point I was making (that you responded to) was about people that didn't change their minds.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)I think people get more moderate as they age. Youth tends toward the black and white.Adults realize they live in a world where people who vehemently disagree with them also live.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)does come from a certain immaturity that will either go away in later years depending on the person.
But I have no doubt it comes from a kind of un-admitted ignorance. When people don't want to admit they lack a full understanding of the nuances of holding and exercising power in governing society and the differences between democrats and republican, they tend to just trash the whole thing and everybody involved as corrupt or elitist.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)If you start as conservative you get more conservative. If you start as liberal you tend to get more liberal. Your views tend to be reinforced through life experiences thus moving a person more right or left.
So the whole meme that people change to conservative is just pure projection, people move out on the spectrum or remain near the same point.
JEB
(4,748 posts)the last 64 years as I have figured out how things work.
Glorfindel
(9,706 posts)thinking that they took the risks, so probably they deserved the rewards. Nowadays I say, "Bring out the guillotines!"
Stellar
(5,644 posts)just as liberal as ever and, I'm 72 this year.
Warpy
(110,900 posts)rather than the way you think it should be. Oh, you've still got enough left of the starry eyed idealism you had at 20 that if the opportunity presents itself, you'll definitely work for positive change. However, you know that most of the time, you'll just have to take what you can get and make the best of it.
It's not that you're suddenly appreciative of conservatism or any of its screwball ideas, you just know for the time being, you're going to have to try to live in spite of them.
I'm ancient and my ideals get more radical every single year. Should the opportunity present itself, I'd gleefully turn conservative America upside down and inside out and laugh at their discomfort, they've certainly been amused by mine. However, I know that the opportunity is not likely to present itself so I'm going to take what I can actually get.
dembotoz
(16,734 posts)by todays standards nixon would be too liberal to be a republican.
so i was left of nixon back then
but if i remained consistent with my stands i would be considered much further left now.
so i do not know if i have changed. To me a being status quo from the 60s would require my support for bernie.
hrc always has and always will be to my right....not intended as an anti hrc thing just an observation relevant to the post topic
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)much more willing to compromise.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Who believes in free education - not charter schools:; who believes in equal rightx for woman - not rapists getting a slap on the wrist; who trule believes people should vote - not corporations; who believes this planet is a living thing and should NOT be frackedd or fucked, we need her!
And many other things all about people and not profit!
Bluzmann57
(12,336 posts)I believe that I am more liberal on some issues and on crime and punishment in particular, I have taken a harder line.
For instance, I once just didn't understand the "gay lifestyle", but various events helped me understand and become accepting of gay people as just regular human beings. And as far as crime and punishment, all child molesters should be locked away forever. No exceptions. I have more views on all sorts of things, but since this is a response to someone else'e postr, I won't get into them now. But I think I've gotten somewhat more liberal throughout the years. Incidentally, in case anyone cares, I'm 58 yrs. of age. And still haven't grown up.
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)The closer I get to social security the more important that issue is to me obviously. I have a pension thankfully, not a big one, but if I am careful and the creeks don't rise I will have a roof over my head and food on the table.
When I was in my early 20's we were still in Vietnam, there was Kent State, all of the marches against the war. I was very involved in those things at that age. I am still anti-war but support the troops who serve, and those who are retired military.
I was a member of the "don't trust anyone over 30" crowd. Obviously that has changed . I am very progressive on woman's issues, civil rights, gay rights (civil rights), helping the poor and children issues. I think I am more pragmatic than I used to be, maybe that is the best word rather than conservative. I doubt any of my friends would describe me as conservative.
I have had some former students point out that I am a little more centrist than they are which is true I think. Bernie has really driven a wedge between those of us who support Hillary and those who support him. I resent being called "establishment" more than younger people since we constantly went after the establishment when we were fighting to get our friends and family out of Vietnam. I also resent being told I support Wall Street, that has not changed, I am realistic enough to know politicians need lots of money to be successful, but I do hate Wall Street after what happened to my pension in 2008.
An issue I rarely worried about as a young person was foreign relations and diplomacy. It is so important to me now because the world is so small these days. That was the tipping point with regard to supporting Secretary Clinton. She has the experience and temperament necessary to handle all of the issues we face abroad.
I am rambling on a bit, I don't know if this answers your question, but it has made me do some thinking, thank you for that.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)And I'm 67.
kimbutgar
(20,871 posts)Now at 60 I am more liberal then ever on social issues but conservative about my finances.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)so much as more pragmatic.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)I think it's less that your ideology changing and more your preferred means to implementing said ideology that has changed.
If anything, I've become *more* of a dirty godless Commie every year (though i'm still pretty young) but I also realize more and more how stupid it is to self-marginalize in the name of feeling good about how pure you are.
Red sectarianism hasn't liberated a single worker.
chillfactor
(7,566 posts)I am much more in the progressive realm than I was in my younger days.
GoldenSF
(27 posts)As an ethnic minority, I've seen how far ideals about how we've become a color-blind society are from reality. When I was younger, I really wanted to believe there were equal opportunities for people of color. While things have certainly improved, an opportunities are generally better than they have ever been in the history of this country, we still have a long ways to go. People are surprised when I tell people I've been stopped by police more than once just for walking down the street (I'm not African-American and so I can't even begin to understand what it must be like for them to deal with this on a daily basis). I'm clearly not a physical threat (5'10" but pretty thin with a long-distance runner's physique), but I'm not white either.
There is also subtle discrimination, where despite being articulate and having delivered numerous successful multidisciplinary projects for my employer (and having graduated from two of the top universities in the country), I feel I've hit a glass ceiling at my workplace and in applying for other jobs.
I'm fortunate that income is not a day-to-day issue as I earn more than enough to pay the bills (but am unable to buy a home). I live in a city where there is a widening gap between the well off and those who are struggling to make ends meet. There is massive displacement here and it's hard for me to imagine what it's like when all of one's disposable income is going to pay rent.
Rather than making me more conservative (which is fueled by a net-zero/winners & losers/hoarding mentality), these life experiences have made me more liberal/progressive. Much to my surprise, I've drifted left!
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)No, it wasn't because we are both "old folks" or that I am now more conservation as a Senior.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)In the not so distant future, me will disappear.
We have a better chance.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I grew up in a mostly conservative family. I considered myself conservative until I graduated from college. Right about then, I figured out that I was on the wrong team. I've become gradually more "left" as I aged (now 50). I think I've settled into my groove, at least for now.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I used to be totally confident that mid-left social-democratic capitalism with high taxes and high social spending was the best economic system.
I now realise that I have no quantitative idea what "high" means in this context, and that there are many different things that one could tax and I have little idea about their relative merits (I do think I have some idea about the merits of different forms of spending, although not much).
If I had to bet, I'd still go with the above as most likely to be the best option, but I'm no longer as confident that either far-left or right-wing economics might not be better as I used to be.
libodem
(19,288 posts)I'm progressive and proud. I may live in lala land but they like me here.
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)But I went from "tear it all down they're all the same and fuck the patriarchy" to an active feminist who cares about actual outcomes. My oldest daughter thinks I've mellowed, and I keep trying to explain what the election of George W. Bush did to me. I knew who he was you see. I thought "no fucking way he'll get nominated" but he was. I changed because my political horizons became broader.
My politics are feminist politics--that hasn't changed. What changed is I would rather work within the system we have than loftily refuse to vote and break shit at protests. I developed an understanding of the political process, and knew one key to change is, indeed correcting gender imbalances another is Correcting racial injustices. Doing things like this in a system that has codified such injustices in its very fabric--because working within the system, CAN produce changes.
The heartbreaking part is that it's far too little and far too late for far too many people.
That doesn't mean I will quit fighting, or go back to "tear it all down"--I see that as counter-productive and harmful.
But fuck the patriarchy.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)Raised by Republican parents and graduated high school in 1969 when the Vietnam War was going strong.
I have become increasingly liberal as I have aged.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)I'm 52 and even further left now.
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)Much of of that has to do with running out of fucks to give.
I'm in my mid-50s and live in a very red part of FL. SO and I feel like we're the only liberals on the planet, at times, but the proximity to all the Tea Party lunacy has only heightened our liberal values.
Svafa
(594 posts)I was pretty liberal then, too. But I am finding myself embracing even more left-wing ideas, such as a universal basic income, these days. Society is progressing, and I am glad to progress along with it.
adigal
(7,581 posts)But physically, of course, I don't do some things I used to do.
The establishment Dems have had their chances and blown it, which is why I supported Bernie. 25% of American kids live in poverty and what Democrat talks about this???? Crickets. That's right. None of them. The Dems have let us all down.
I am growing more liberal in my positions, but also more and more distrustful about the powers that be. A heavy dose of cynicism has tinged my worldview, but I am no less liberal for it. I suppose that is because I still at least have hope that things can change. I hope that, as I get even older, I at least don't lose that.
edhopper
(33,164 posts)I am conservative about a time when America moved forward on Equal and Civil Rights, when the Environment was a major concern, when going to War should be the last option, when the War on Drugs was a questionable policy.
I am conservative about progressive taxes, when policies were made to promote the middle class and not the wealthy, when workers had Unions to represent them against powerful Corporations, when building a strong infrastructure was a national priority.
I am a true conservative.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)My 'wisdom' takes me further left.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)I started out my life in a right wing paradise. And as a young man, I held strongly to the conservative beliefs that I grew up with. As I got older and went out into the world, I realized that those beliefs didn't account for all the real suffering I saw in the larger world around me.
And so I became more progressive. I don't care about storing up riches in this world. This isn't the first life we've lived and it won't be the last. All I can do is try to make the lives of my fellow humans easier while I can.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I have less tolerance for this neo-liberal stuff our party has been feeding us. As we slid further and further into minority party status, I kept hoping somebody would wake up, but it's too cozy and comfortable for too many people, so that's the way it is. I am definitely not any closer to conservative thinking than I was 40 years ago, but my party has drifted so far right I question their claims to be liberal, let alone progressive.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)...now, I want to kill them and eat them.
Just kidding.... I think....
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Both parties have moved rightward over the last thirty years, leaving me on the "far" left. We have a corporate friendly national platform that is against a carbon tax, against single payer health care, voted down a $15 minimum wage and supports the TPP, fracking and the continued Israeli occupation of Palestine. But yeah, Trump and/or the Republicans would be even worse so yay, Hillary!
stage left
(2,934 posts)and I'm more liberal than ever. Of course, I Did still call myself a liberal when it was a "bad word". But I feel like I'm now not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. Maybe that's the result of working to help elect my chosen candidate for the first time ever. I don't know. Maybe I should be more cynical. God knows, when you think about it, there's plenty to be cynical about. However, being hopeful keeps me happy and keeps me going.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)or rather in response to it. I was somewhat more moderate before that time.
I am now more radically left than I have ever been in my life, and don't expect that to change.
frogmarch
(12,144 posts)am more Liberal now than I ever was, and that's saying something!
Tree-Hugger
(3,364 posts)I am in my late 30's.
I was raised in a Democrat household, but I was way way more centrist when I registered to vote at 18. I am now a hardcore flaming left wing liberal.
Interestingly, the more religious I became the more I moved left. My spirituality has a large hand in my politics and has really brought out the liberal in me.
I like what a previous poster said and I echo it....I was radicalized by the W administration.
ananda
(28,780 posts)I have always always liberal socially, but I was a bit hawkish
in my youth.
But getting educated on how the world works helped
me realize that war and aggression is only a tool
of the elites and profiteers, and so many are harmed
in their selfish interests.
Red Mountain
(1,704 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Response to DanTex (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to DanTex (Original post)
tenderfoot This message was self-deleted by its author.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I didn't even get out in the streets to protest until the Iraq War demonstrations and Occupy and other related movements.
Though when Kerry was throwing his ribbons I wished I could join him. In my own Vietnam PTSD it was impossible to do anything that would bring it all back.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)When I was 18, I was a moderate Republican. At twice that age, I'm a far-left progressive that thinks the Democratic party's biggest problem most days is its unwillingness to pull out the knives and carve off its centrist flank.
Experience has taught me nothing is going to change as long as we're willing to lie down on principles and break bread with those that don't share our values and those whose "Democrat"-ness is a default position resulting from avoidance of the extremists of the other party rather than holding Democratic ideals at heart themselves.
I'm a proud progressive extremist and I doubt I'll be less progressive or less extreme in 18 more years.
demmiblue
(36,743 posts)Even among those who proclaim themselves to be the left of the left.
Me, not so much. I feel like my views haven't changed that much (any changes have been leftward), though the labels have.
The goalposts have changed considerably. The party over principle voters have adapted accordingly.
rug
(82,333 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Checkmate!
rug
(82,333 posts)Off with their heads!
58 years old and I'm more of a bleeding heart liberal than ever, mostly because we have no money worries and I feel it's my responsibility to help others.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)while counting victories in small steps instead of a grand humbling of my opponents. And often, victory is in just standing my ground and not moving at all.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,694 posts)It's not really something I think about. But I've been a Democrat since I first became aware of Adlai Stevenson in 1956 when I was a mere six years old.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)as I age, just willing to speak out more about it
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)its humbling and rather sad....
TexasBushwhacker
(20,043 posts)I am 59 and I'm far more political than when I was younger. I bought into the third way BS in the 90s and considered myself "socially liberal/fiscally conservative." Though I didn't initially support Bill Clinton, I thought his welfare reform made sense. I didn't really understand NAFTA but I trusted that he was doing what was best for the US. I didn't realize it was good for businesses and bad for workers.
I was raised in a white collar, middle class family. I thought poor people just needed to go to school and get better jobs. Of course, I went to college in the late 70s when it was still affordable.
But the theft of the 2000 election, the illegal invasion of Iraq and the catastrophic consequences of NAFTA and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco changed everything for me. I still consider myself fiscally conservative in a way. I think our DOD budget is twice what it needs to be and corporate welfare has to end. While I naively thought that a low capital gains tax rate would encourage savings and investment, I learned you can't save if your can't pay the rent and "investing" in the stock market is just a way for the wealthy to hoard money.
So now I'm your basic bleeding heart liberal. I remember a time when Republicans and Democrats worked together. Now I find it impossible to work with the current Republican Party. You can't reason with unreasonable people.
CBHagman
(16,968 posts)It was easier to make pronouncements and see things in black-and-white terms when I was in my teens and 20s, though that does not mean I had any particular confidence. I find that last, confidence, does come with age, as does a tendency to take things less personally.
I also accept ambivalence and ambiguity, and in general grow more objective as I grow older.
By the way, I do not think that seeing things in black-and-white terms, in absolutes, is the province of one political mindset over another. From what I can tell, there are plenty of people who define themselves as progressives but don't seem particularly open to discussion of shades of meaning, strategies, etc.
As for the term conservative, I don't see that in narrow terms either, though in the States these days the word has been hijacked to mean whatever talk radio or a political party wants it to mean.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)early 40's here. I was raised by conservative parents and I lived in a very conservative area and never heard any rational discussion of the 'other side' until I was in my early 20's. Nearly overnight I went from conservative to middle of the road. I kept drifting to the left and when I got my business degree is when I really went far left. I'm wayyyy over there now.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)been there, done that and maybe felt as you did in my 30's. Fast forward another 20 or 30 years and life becomes very different.
Most people are just one major illness away from having their lives ripped apart.
Should we even mention those who never had a chance because of family and circumstances into which they were born. They never had a chance, we have met too many people at Hope Lodge in those circumstances along this very long cancer road.
Glad you like your niche, we did as well, but illness and age put us in our proper place.
What are your annual out of pocket expenses, do you know what they are, I'm not speaking of deductibles, they are just a drop in the bucket. Honestly if you asked me when I was 40 I would not have had a clue. Would you be able to sustain your living standards without your normal salary and on top of that be able to pay the annual out pocket expenses year after year plus additional travel costs for treatment?
First year our annual out of pocket deductible was $11,500 in 2010, fortunately it dropped to $8,500 in subsequent years, but we have met the annual out of pocket maximum every year since, coupled with an 80% drop in salary. We are fortunate to have family and friends that have been able to help.
We are very lucky though, as our ever increasing insurance premiums still covers most providers, many insurance plans do not cover state of the art hospitals, so check your plan, many people think they are covered, increasingly their insurance is only covered for their state or a few states away.
We met someone at Hope Lodge in NYC year from Florida in 2015 when my husband had his second allogeneic transplant, but their insurance had to wait to and skip a few states forward, so they had to wait, three states at a time, until their insurance was accepted at Columbia and Cornell. She spent almost two years in NYC and is doing well, we saw her two weeks ago for a check up and she is doing very well
But there is a reason that two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy for medical reasons HAD a good job and HAD good insurance.
In essence you never know what life might have in store for you, did we envision one bone marrow transplant, let alone two and all the associated costs and risks that many could not even endure.
We are very lucky as we had some retirement saving to fall back upon and some family that were able to help, but there are many who do not have that safety net.
There are many people we have met on this long journey at Hope Lodge who have not survived, maybe because luck was not on their side, they did not have the best treatment or support.
Sorry this is probably not the response you envisioned, but times change so quickly, as the old saying goes, try and place yourself in another person's shoes.
You ever know what life has in store for you, hopefully it is the best!
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)and I would say I have had no change in my political views. I have always consider myself liberal, but practical. I understand the need to make reasonable compromises in order to get things done and that small incremental changes are better than giant overhauls to the system. You are more likely to break something or throw away something that was actually good if you make a large change in haste.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Our Democratic establishment constantly maneuvers to erode things like Social Security and to chip away at a host of other things, like privacy rights and labor rights. The only pushback they get to maintain these things is from liberals.
Still, glad to see you admit to drifting rightward.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)For many reasons:
#1) My household income has increased 15x over the last 15 years. I don't really want to pay more taxes more than the next person.
#2) My debt has ballooned to over 2M with education, housing, and business investments. I need a stable political climate to avoid deflation that would killer
#3) Single payor would destroy my wife's business. We've invested over 350k into her medical practice and I don't really want to see it destroyed
#4) I ran a small business and am vehemently against the $15 minimum wage. It WILL harm many small businesses that are struggling to survive.
#5) I have in-laws that are great guys who work at Goldman Sachs. I defend their right to make money.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)as I get older.
I have kids and I want them to inherit a world fit to live in.