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Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:48 PM

I think I have woken up in bizarro world...

Trump opposes TPP, dems support it. What the hell is going on?

36 replies, 2391 views

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Reply I think I have woken up in bizarro world... (Original post)
onecaliberal Jun 2016 OP
giftedgirl77 Jun 2016 #1
Warpy Jun 2016 #3
giftedgirl77 Jun 2016 #4
Iggo Jun 2016 #5
giftedgirl77 Jun 2016 #23
FreakinDJ Jun 2016 #2
onecaliberal Jun 2016 #6
Hortensis Jun 2016 #22
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #28
840high Jun 2016 #12
Baitball Blogger Jun 2016 #25
randome Jun 2016 #34
Baitball Blogger Jun 2016 #36
KMOD Jun 2016 #7
pkdu Jun 2016 #33
bhikkhu Jun 2016 #8
onecaliberal Jun 2016 #10
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #29
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #9
Lokijohn Jun 2016 #11
840high Jun 2016 #13
Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #14
KMOD Jun 2016 #16
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #30
CaptainSensible Jun 2016 #15
Recursion Jun 2016 #17
onecaliberal Jun 2016 #20
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #31
Recursion Jun 2016 #18
modem77 Jun 2016 #19
earthshine Jun 2016 #21
MH1 Jun 2016 #24
arcane1 Jun 2016 #26
Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #27
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #32
peace13 Jun 2016 #35

Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:50 PM

1. Trump doesn't know shit from sirloin.

 

He's just trying to leech off any flighty supporters he can. Especially now that his poll numbers are tanking.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:56 PM

3. Obviously, judging from the supposed quality of his steaks

His lizard brain realizes that angry white guys (quite rightly) hate all these "free trade" deals that have ended up screwing them out of jobs that supported a whole family, so he's decided to be against this one. I'm also sure he'd sign it when someone dangled the prospect of more wealth concentration in front of him.

Conservative Democrats think they got where they are because they're "business friendly," and in some districts, they might be correct, and multinational corporations want this thing so bad they can taste it. Most Democrats oppose it.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:59 PM

4. Yeah, that's it. Once again it's all about the poor persecuted white guy.

 

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:06 PM

5. For republicans looking for votes, that's exactly what it is.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:38 PM

23. Guess it's a good thing they are a slowly fading minority voting block then, huh?

 

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:56 PM

2. It is Bizarro World

 

39 years of voting straight party ticket and I have a horrible sinking feeling when I see Shit like this

TPP is the worst possible scenario for America

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:06 PM

6. It's game over for the planet and 99%.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:13 PM

22. Oncaliberal, Trump is leading what is a populist movement,

and likely by now someone has explained that to him.

When things aren't going well for those prone to populist acting out, they react by immediately blaming others. Lots of others, actually, but the main targets of resentment always end up being "elites" (easy enough since as a group "they" always deserve blame for some things anyway). The hostility is mostly undifferentiated and undirected except always "upwards" toward government/elites, with a typically tiny handful of names they all memorize and group-attack.

Note that both our left-wing and right-wing populists attack mostly the same things, including the TPP.

The "Democrats" you speak of are people who don't see every single issue and person in an either-or "evil black victimizes me and must be destroyed" or "good white is the only one who can save me" way. There are reasons for the TPP that have nothing to do with Democrats' eagerness to cheat ourselves out of everything, but populists right and left reject all facts that might interfere with their hostility.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:04 PM

28. +1.

 


The "Democrats" you speak of are people who don't see every single issue and person in an either-or "evil black victimizes me and must be destroyed" or "good white is the only one who can save me" way. There are reasons for the TPP that have nothing to do with Democrats' eagerness to cheat ourselves out of everything, but populists right and left reject all facts that might interfere with their hostility.


including the labor union support that the TPP has garnered. But, shhh ...

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:17 AM

12. Agreed.

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:45 PM

25. America will be no longer exist as we know it.

There has been a push for a global trade union for sometime. And it has been working its way from within.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:39 PM

34. Funny, that's what Trump says, too.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:47 PM

36. We don't have a vision for the same America-yesterday, today or tomorrow.

I think the mistake that is too often made is believing that conflicts are just bipolar--or, two opposite ideas fighting against each other. Libertarians have used this to their advantage for sometime, swinging from one party to the other to advance a third cause.

Libertarians are not the only ones who use this kind of covert political wedging.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:07 PM

7. Trump is an isonationalist

 

it's hardly surprising.

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Response to KMOD (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:32 PM

33. I think you just coined a new term....I like it! n/t

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:08 PM

8. I think trump's position is isolationist

while the democratic leadership favors well-regulated trade, and policies that benefit the global economy.

I'm against it not because its a trade agreement, which I'm generally in favor of, but because. Regulation is the job of government, and making a profit is the job of private enterprise, and there is a certain amount of mixing of the two principals in the agreement. I'd make a stronger point, but to be honest I went a re-read the summary of the agreement and don't find any really clear problems ( https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2015/october/summary-trans-pacific-partnership ).

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:11 PM

10. The clear problems I find are that foreign governments can bring litigation

If we don't do things in this country they want, even if it t harms our people, our health and safety, etc... Not to mention the millions of good paying jobs that went overseas and decimated entire towns and millions of lives.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:09 PM

29. I kind of agree with this ...

 

Regulation is the job of government, and making a profit is the job of private enterprise, and there is a certain amount of mixing of the two principals in the agreement.


Except, in this case, as is often the case in multi-national matters, leaving it to "governments" to regulate would require all the partner nations to change their laws to accommodate the regulation; whereas, the tribunals only require the partner nations to agree on common rules.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:11 PM

9. I have also seen posts praising corporations and the elites as things the 99% can't live without.

It all seems so muddled.

At least I get to console myself with the knowledge that chocolate rations have been increased from 6 ounces to four.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 11:20 PM

11. Double plus good!

Yeah, these are scary times.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:20 AM

13. It's late - had to read that twice.

 

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:30 AM

14. It is hilarious. I listened to Trump speak today, and at least notionally

he repeated, nearly word for word, some of the most deeply help beliefs of many liberals.

American jobs. No TPP. Higher wages. Lower trade deficits.

And in so voicing those beliefs, many of those same liberals no longer hold them.

Which means they never believed in those things in the first place.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:23 AM

16. Or perhaps you are confused as to where you fit

 

on the political scale.

If you seriously can't see the difference between Trump and Democrats, you are missing the big picture.

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Response to KMOD (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:11 PM

30. And if ANYONE believes a word coming out trump's mouth ... well ...

 

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:12 AM

15. Who's down with the TPP?

My understanding, to date, was that Hillary initially supported TPP while it was iterating revisions. She then read a final rough draft, which she found considerably disappointing, urging her to rescind support until the authors can make the necessary changes,

That's all I know.

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Response to CaptainSensible (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:30 AM

17. A majority of Democratic voters nationally

While a majority of Republican voters nationally oppose it. Meanwhile, a majority of Democratic politicians oppose it, and a majority of Republican politicians support it. It's an odd situation.

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Response to CaptainSensible (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 10:09 AM

20. Go outside your bubble and read.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:13 PM

31. CaptainSensible is not the one in the bubble, as he/she has accurately recounted what has occurred.

 

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:32 AM

18. Trump, and the paleo-Left, are wrong about trade

That's the short version of what's going on.

The long version is that this election cycle is a good cycle for selling middle-aged white people on the false promise that the economy they knew in the 1960s and 1970s (which they mostly misremember) can come back. It can't, no more than the agrarian economy their grandparents pined for can.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 08:06 AM

19. How long before we have to train our replacements that are willing to work for min. wage?

You can bet that will be part of the deal. Let more people in to help suppress wages. Union busting. It's what the corporations want.

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Response to modem77 (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 11:59 AM

21. I think you are confusing TPP with H-1B visas.

 

But no matter. Last I heard, Hillary supports increasing the number of eligible visas for foriegn workers.

We race to the bottom, and no matter how low the bottom goes, those on top will still be on top.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:42 PM

24. So Trump made a speech saying he opposes TPP. So what?

When does a statement from Trump on an issue one week, have anything to do with his policy position on the same issue the next week?

I'd think if we'd learned one thing about Trump, it would be that whatever he says, expect the reverse to come out sooner or later.

In the end, the only policy position we can be sure of from Trump, is that Trump will support whatever he believes is good for Trump. At that moment.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:47 PM

26. This is the inevitable result of "Saying anything to get elected" and "Triangulation"

 

What we need most are politicians who believe in a position and actually own it.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 12:56 PM

27. Trump is wooing Sanders supporters.

Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Everything he says should be taken with a ton of salt. He is a man who treated workers like crap for his entire career.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:19 PM

32. +1 ...

 

Trump says:

American jobs. No TPP. Higher wages. Lower trade deficits.


American Jobs: While off-shoring his entire product line.
Higher Wages: While campaigning on (last week) the minimum Wage being too high
Lower trade deficits: While promising actions that will explode trade deficits

And many here are eating his line of bullshit up like a too good glazed ham ... all because it approximates populism.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:44 PM

35. Aaa....not all Dems.

 

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