General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe gorilla enclosure threads are entertaining...
... But it's actually quite simple. If you open your premises for a fee, you have a duty to keep the premises reasonably safe for the people you invite thereon. If you are inviting children, then you have a legal duty to make the premises reasonably safe for said children. It's not an absolute duty to never let anyone get hurt - but a duty to take any and all steps that a reasonable premises owner would take to protect the invitees.
Parents of children ALSO have a duty to act reasonably in protecting their kids. They are not responsible for being perfect - just reasonable in the eyes of the jury. It's entirely possible - indeed likely - that BOTH could be found to be at fault to varying degrees.
So it all comes down to who acted reasonably under the circumstances. We can obviously debate that - that's part of the fun of an Internet board. But people need to keep in mind that there are no hard and fast rules that decide the issue either way. Everyone is entitled to see it from their perspective.
metroins
(2,550 posts)You've obviously been living here for a while, and understand there's middle areas in topics.
Maybe we should leave the door open for people to join us.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....FROM snot nosed hyperactive brats and the uncaring drooling public gawking at them.
avebury
(10,953 posts)The zoo had a spotless record for 38 years which shows that the overwhelming majority of patrons know how to behave. Kudos to the years of parents who knew how to teach their children to behave in public. It is sad that what will make them beef up their enclosures (in order to be able to safeguard the animals) is the fact that there are adults who either don't go to the zoo with ample adult back-up to watch over the kids or show poor judgement when they fail to adhere to warnings that one of their little darlings is about to take off and create total disaster.
Too many parent today allow their kids to rule the household. It is not that unusual to see kids doing whatever they want to in public with no concern about consequences. One of my biggest beefs are those parents who, when they are on vacation, think that they are also on vacation from parenting their children. I have seen kids run laps in a plane thousands of miles in the air on a transatlantic flight (what could possibly go wrong ). I was on another transatlantic flight where mom went to sleep and left dad to deal with the 3 kids, 2 were great, 1 would not shut up (how about teaching inside vs outside voices?). One elderly gent finally got up, turned to the dad and said "It is 2 o'clock in the morning, can't you please make her shut up?" I wanted to applaud the guy. Night flights can be hell if you can't get any rest. I have seen kids running around a clothing store making me fearful that they would run over an elderly patron (I grabbed them and told 1 child to see in chair A and the other child sit in chair B and to not move until Mom was ready to leave). I have had to lecture kids that you don't hit animals (Why on earth should a child think that is acceptable behavior? The kids a few blocks over got that from their Mom ) . In the digital age, people are far too often focussed on their phone (calls, texts, searching the web) and lose sight of what is going on around them.
I have seen familes that are fabulous and great to be around (and the kids are a credit to the parents). Others, I want to shove off a cliff.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)And when they are asked to be polite to others, they lash out HOW DAAAARE YOU!!!!
Especially with their equally bad kids.
They aren't concerned about the world around them, EVEN THE STUFF THEY GO TO INTERACT WITH!
The world is getting dumber and more self centered and it's doing it in quantum leaps every day.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)usual at zoos.
Whiskeytide's right, of course .Both the zoo and the parent have separate responsibilities to meet. That claims adjusters may settle smaller claims like a card game -- we feel our insured was 20% at fault (even though their party wasn't really at fault at all), and then settling after a few rounds for paying 35% -- does not mean that responsibility is something that is shared and can be divided up. The laws regarding personal liability are actually extremely old and based on good sense, that reasonable person standard and reasonable standard of care mentioned.
You know, it'd be nice of more people realized that few care about animals as much as most of those who've made caring for them and promoting their welfare by stimulating public interest their life's work.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)It went from being "loved and cherished" to a big problem, expendable and a lawsuit that needed to be dispatched in seconds. All because it was confused and frightened by the commotion this bizarre little interloper to it's domain caused.
It pains me to see the "Oh, well it's just a gorilla" attitude by many. It didn't ask for any of it.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)Those who admit to losing track of a child at least once and liars.
phylny
(8,393 posts)at the Brookfield Zoo when she was little. We were and are in no way negligent parents, and were appalled and ashamed at ourselves. Fortunately, the first time, a very nice family waited with her for us to find her. The second time, we each took a staircase on either side of the sea lion exhibit and found her downstairs.
Dorian Gray
(13,517 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)But in the case of zookeepers, who have a public duty to keep wild animals, the threshold is reduced to negligence (but it doesn't arise out of premises liability).
mnhtnbb
(31,412 posts)Distracted or inattentive parents;
Hyper excited kid capable of things parents couldn't imagine;
Design not foolproof for determined child.
My not quite 3 year old got away from me at the Omaha Zoo many years ago--20 some--and we were there as a family.
My husband was with the oldest and I had the youngest in the stroller. Took him out of the stroller, turned to put
the stroller against the building of the new Lied Jungle, turned around and he was gone. It happens that fast even
with the most attentive parent.
On the other hand, I took both kids to the zoo many times when they were older. I can't tell you how many times I suggested
to a parent to hold a kid's hand, or take the kid down from holding it atop a railing or barrier to get a better view in to an exhibit. There are a lot of dumb parents out there.