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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMuslim woman becomes media darling, turns out she hates Jews.
Yup, and tried to cover that up.
Anti-Semitic statements of 'joy and peace' selfie star
The photo of a young Muslim woman called Zakia Belkhiri subtly undermining an anti-Islam demonstration by using the protesters as a backdrop for a selfie was one of the most striking images of the past week. But it's a story with a not so pleasant postscript.
The iconic picture above has been widely shared on social media over the last few days and reported on by BBC Trending and a host of other news outlets around the world. Many who saw it were charmed by Ms Belkhiri's stunt which seemed to use humour to defuse a potentially awkward confrontation outside a Muslim lifestyle exhibition in Belgium. Photos of the event showed that even some of the placard-carrying demonstrators from the far right Vlaams Belang group seemed to find it funny.
"This wasn't a protest at all, this was just to share joy and peace," Ms Belkhiri told Trending in an email at the time explaining her actions. The 22-year-old added that she wanted "to show that things can be different. And that we can live together, not next to each other but with each other".
However, since then a series of deeply disturbing anti-Semitic statements made by Ms Belkhiri on social media have come to light.
In one tweet dating from November 2012, she wrote: "Hitler didn't kill all the Jews, he left some. So we know why he was killing them."
And in another Facebook post from March 2014, she used an expletive to describe Jews before adding: "I hate them so much."
After these and other statements emerged, Ms Belkhiri deleted all her social media accounts.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36353650
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samsingh
(17,604 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The media never learns.
Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)It is time for Jews, Christians and Muslims to realize that they all worship an aspect of the GOD OF ABRAHAM, and get over their petty issues; and it is time for political forces to stop using religion as the "Opiate of the Masses" or the LSD equivalent.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The demarkation between the religious and political is the stuff of fiction. Politics didn't just stroll up one day and ruin religion. Religion is by definition political.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)She only "apologized" because she got caught being a disgusting bigot. And that so called apology was so freeking weak I'm surprised people here keep bringing it up like it matters.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
Not something easily reconciled with a diverse, cosmopolitan society.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, two of the three most trusted collections of hadiths - tales of Muhammad's life written by his associates. They are considered authoritative.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)
Angel Martin
(942 posts)samsingh
(17,604 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)antisemitic statement and actions by any muslims before now ?
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Surely you must believe him, a foremost expert on the subject.
Sure it's an ultra-conservative dogmatic orthodoxy substantially unchanged since the Dark Ages, but they're not Christian ultraconservatives so they must be peaceful. Bush said so!
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)He says so too. Multiple times.
cali
(114,904 posts)The bible has plenty of ugly in it too.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Damn,
I was trying to get another group to go out with me on Sunday and smite fuckers who are working on that holy of holy days! Bible tells me so 
cali
(114,904 posts)one doctrine and diminish the importance of another. That is the history of religion.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)'Turn the other cheek'(NT) leads to less mayhem than 'Kill the infidels wherever you find them'(Quran)
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Is the index to the oral law (the Talmud) and generally read out of context, especially by adherents.
Yes, there is some harsh, bronze age, stuff in there.
But most are:
(1) only applicable to Jewish people,* living in a Davidic kingdom, with an intact Temple (which has not been the case for ~2000 years) and
(2) the ultimate penalty after a series of lesser penalties (like talking with someone and telling them to not be a putz).
Not a sage, but happy to clarify any given passage.
* Most of the harsher parts of the Torah does not apply to non-Jewish people, at all, and then most of the stuff complained about applies only to Levites and Cohenim, who are, yes, highly restricted.
7962
(11,841 posts)Or conversion? Like so many of the Muslim leaders do?
Much of the Quran is instructing the "infidels" to be killed.
In the bible, its not the norm. Remember, "vengeance is MINE, sayeth the Lord"
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Religion... Peace...
v
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)peace between enemies rather it is peace with oneself (lack of anxiety), a state reached by accepting that everything is the will of a deity. This inner state is also accomplished by everyone accepting the Koran as the direct communication from a deity so that everyone will be march to the same drum. The reason the Koran has such ugly statements about Jews is that Jews believe that the monotheistic god of Abraham has a special relationship to them and aren't willingly to cast those beliefs aside and embrace a religion that for all intents and purposes glommed on to theirs.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)And I don't get her Hitler comment
melman
(7,681 posts)is Hitler left some Jews alive so we could see why they deserved to die. Because when we see what Jews are like, we'll understand Hitler's motivation.
cali
(114,904 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)these anti-Semites far, far, away, and FAST.
cali
(114,904 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)"Palestinian rights," or some of her other tweets...
Or Helen Thomas effectively telling the Jews to get gassed again (by telling them to "get out of 'Palestine'" and go "back to Poland," etc., countries which gassed them).
cali
(114,904 posts)samsingh
(17,604 posts)where an Israeli professor was talking about race issues. A young muslim women stood up (she was wearing a hijab and identified herself as such) to talk about how muslims were getting a bad rap. The professor asked her how she felt about jews. She smiled and said there should be fewer of them.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)voted with the GOP on refugees...
7962
(11,841 posts)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)This young woman made these statements years ago, and has issued a heartfelt apology. Yet of course, lets drag her through the mud!! Can't let a good deed go unpunished!
cali
(114,904 posts)philosslayer
(3,076 posts)And she's 22 years old. Lets see how YOU would do at that age when facing a planet-full of criticism. Lets cut her some slack.
cali
(114,904 posts)I have never said anything remotely in that vein. Not when I was twelve or 19.
And her apology was pathetic.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Some of us weren't. So are you prepared to cast the first stone?
cali
(114,904 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)samsingh
(17,604 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)The excuses for antisemitism on this thread are sick.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I am deeply concerned about the rise and acceptance of antisemitism in the left.
It will destroy what unity we have.
The booing of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel during the last DNC convention was a low point in my life as a lifetime Democrat. (And yes, I was there. I was shocked.)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I see what the left has managed to make the leader of Labour in GB and I'm disgusted. On this issue, the far left is WAY out of the mainstream of Democrats and Americans in general.
branford
(4,462 posts)and praising Hitler for killing Jews and other horrendous and bigoted comments, with some statements made as a legal adult.
Condoning genocide and praising one of the worst tyrants of the modern era is one hell of a far cry from drinking or smoking underage or some disorderly conduct, the type of behavior typical of some youth.
So, yes, as a Jew who lost much of my family in the Holocaust, and also managed not to say or do anything outlandishly and inexcusably bigoted as a teen (or any other time), I will indeed cast the first of many stones against this antisemite, particularly when her "apology" appeared to be little more than insincere tripe in a desperate attempt to salvage her celebrity.
I'm additionally quite curious what the heck you did or said during your teenage years that you could possibly sympathize or identify with this horrible woman?
GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)I have made an ass of myself more times than I can count. I am grateful to everyone who has shown me the error of my ways and always I apologize and try to make things right. It sucks to be imperfect but so it goes.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)When in my late teens/early 20s. But I can guarentee I never encouraged or made light of the Jewish genocide. Your defense of this bigot is very telling.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)I don't think I've ever felt that way.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The poster I was responding to.
He and I are both active on another thread where he defends a 15 year olds child's decision, even right, to have sex with 25 boys at one time in a high school bathroom. Uses the whole her body her choice thing.
He loves taking liberal, even progressive positions to an absurd place.
Makes one say hmmm.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)ironically, it seems that the first ones the radical muslims will destroy are the liberals and progressives.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)In past posts this member has stated that Europe will need to change it's liberal values to accommodate their new, not so liberal residents.
But I suspect he/she will be along shortly to clarify the situation.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)I don't have the exact quote, since you clearly have more intimate knowledge of my posting history than I do, but I believe I stated that as more Muslims move into Europe, the cultures will eventually merge to create a new culture. This really is not disputable. A significant majority of Muslims wish to retain their cultural and religious identities, and tolerant European attitudes (and laws) will accommodate them. Therefore, after a time, the culture will modify given a larger Muslim presence.
As Christianity in Europe continues to die out, and Islam gains a greater foothold, Muslim values will continue to play a larger and larger role in the public sphere.
If you disagree, please tell me what your scenario for the future is. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but rather using facts and trends to bolster my argument.
samsingh
(17,604 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)For making my point. I do not think that tolerant Europeans will accept the general intolerance of their new residents.
You can call their beliefs 'Muslim values' all you want. So far they look like moving the values of the Middle East to Europe. Those Muslim values are leading to an exodus of Jews from France.
I guess we should be ok with the values of the voters of Mississippi since they reflect the 'values' of those voters. Too bad for the poor Blacks and LBGT. Ironically, one of the same groups the new residents of Europe seem to detest.
And why am I not surprised you are defending a 15 year old child's decision to have sex with 25 boys in a high school bathroom.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Look at the trends. Birth rates of native Europeans aren't sufficient to maintain the population at current levels. Birth rates among Muslim immigrants are considerably higher. Migrants continue to move into Europe. As population increases, political power increases. Islam as a political force will continue to expand. Do you deny this will happen? Demographics say otherwise.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)If you think tolerant Europeans will sit back and let their contenient be overtaken by a culture straight from the eighth century, you are wrong.
The pushback has already begun. It will only increase. Especially if Britain leaves the EU.
I fear for what Europe can become, but they have proven that they are more than capable of defending their culture. A culture that most of us here envy.
You seem to take perverse pleasure at its demise. But I would expect no less from someone defending a 15-year-old Child being fucked by 25 boys in a high school bathroom.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)That are arising throughout Europe. How lovely. Because the left wing SUPPORTS migrants moving into Eurooe, and in fact wants it to continue. Which side do you support?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Support refugees moving to Europe. And moving back when wars are over. Even Germany and Sweden are starting to reject economic migrants.
The idea is an Islamic Europe is quickly dying. The idea of a liberal Europe is getting stronger. You may or may not like it, i cannot tell, but LGBT rights will be assured.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Really? Haven't seen that anywhere. Got a link?
romanic
(2,841 posts)I remember you constantly saying Europe should change thier laws to be more "tolerant" and "inclusive" towards the so-called culture of these migrants.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Never happened. Good luck finding such a post because it doesn't exist and never existed.
Throd
(7,208 posts)That is when I first took notice of your schtick.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Last edited Tue May 24, 2016, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)
But I will save you some time, it doesn't exist. I never advocated for changing any laws. My point was, as Muslims become more integrated into Europe the culture will modify naturally.
melman
(7,681 posts)you'll just say it doesn't say what it says. Why would anyone play your game?
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Okay, I'll help. You insist that Europeans won't change their laws. Fair enough. Given current demographics, I agree. What about in 50 or 75 or 100 years if Muslims become a majority in Europe? Which, given the trends is possible, and some would say even inevitable. And what if Muslims constitute a voting majority? In that case, there is a very good chance, further down the line, that laws will change.
romanic
(2,841 posts)No matter how much you want it to be.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Why not ? How do you know? Muslim birth rates in Europe are magnitudes higher than among native Europeans. Simple math says that over time there is a considerable chance they become a majority.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Helping people escape from exclusionary apocalyptic religions like Islam and Christianity, so they don't set the world back.
romanic
(2,841 posts)philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Nice retort. I'll remember to try it next time I'm losing an argument.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Response to philosslayer (Reply #86)
Post removed
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Not that it bothers them. As you point out, he/she likes to mention they "just have a different culture" and "true liberals" should give bigotry a pass.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)And please tell me what part of my projection you disagree with.
7962
(11,841 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Who praised a genocidal maniac who was prepared to bring on a nuclear Armageddon in the cause of fighting Communism and most of us are willing to accept that she has changed.
Could it be that "Bill Maher Liberals" reject any explanation that doesn't fit their world view?
Hekate
(91,003 posts)By the time she was old enough to vote, she was working for an anti-war, poetry-writing, "Man for All Seasons," Democratic Senator who was running for President. Probably nobody you ever heard of -- but I worked for him too, on the other side of the country.
So you just go on hating on that young kid since it makes you happy.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)entirely.
THIS young woman, who grew up with the Israeli miltary killing her neighbors , is every bit as.capable of having her eyes opened to the message of peace and religious tolerance as was the young Ms. Rodham and, btw, as susceptible to the corrupting influence of parents and others.
This notwithstanding, the anti-Islam hate mongers who appear to be as numerous on DU as in an ACT for America rally at a fundamentalist church, are willing to ignore those similarities in order to denigrate her message that religion should not separate us.
Once again, the cult of perceived victimhood surrounding the most privileged woman in the world has stood in the way of a discussion of real issues.
branford
(4,462 posts)The multiple atrocious comments (only deleted after they were brought to light) were also only made a few years ago, and nothing demonstrably changed in this woman's life or education during that time to explain a radical shift in perspective concerning Jews. This is not some "youthful indiscretion."
Complaining about Breitbart is simple attacking the messenger because the message is just so terrible and blows the narrative to smithereens. She did in fact make the comments, they are entirely inexcusable and inexplicable to any true progressive, and her social media celebrity from her selfie at the far right march in no way excuses her antisemitism.
When you effectively praise Hitler for killing Jews, you drag yourself through the mud. No help was needed to decimate her reputation.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)I don't remember that same policy for Christians hating black people and gays?
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Her apology to her "The reason Hitler left a few Jews alive was to show up why he killed them" was she "meant Zionists."
Keep in mind, Hitler was pre-modern Israel and he killed folks like my family who were, in the case of my uncle, a dentist minding his own business, who was about as political as the teeth he filled.
The fact is that much of modern Islam is in infected with anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-Jew, anti-Christian, anti-modern, anti-secular, radical beliefs.
If Texas was a separate country, I would not be keen on importing redneck Christian bigots from Texas into normal secular states. I don't see why Muslims should get a pass in this regard, either.
Vogon_Glory
(9,137 posts)The right-wingers dragged Senator Byrd through the mud for decades because of his membership in the Klan. Poor persecuted Ms. Belkhiri is being hassled for things she said only a few short years ago. 
Let Ms Belkhiri show clear signs that she is living down her earlier remarks--not now, but a few years down the road--and maybe THEN I'll show some sympathy.
7962
(11,841 posts)I suppose you feel the same way about anyone on the right who may have associated with some bad groups years ago? Or maybe wrote some bad things?
If nobodies past should be brought out, then we're gonna have a tough time running ads against Trump. HIS past is a goldmine.
melman
(7,681 posts)it was a Dutch website called GeenStij.
7962
(11,841 posts)But I guess he'll say they're the Dutch equivalent!
dilby
(2,273 posts)Was going to dig up two, two things she said on the internet about Jews. I have a feeling the people who were holding the Anti Islam rally probably also had negative comments about Jews, it would not be uncommon.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)samsingh
(17,604 posts)too bad she didn't react with sorrow and despair. I know I cried when I first understood what the holocaust really meant.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)6 million were Jews. That anyone is defending this piece of crap is thoroughly depressing.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)it's not like she was like 'oh those silly Jews not driving on Saturdays'. It was some really fucked up shit, for lack of a better term.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I have heard Jews say really fucked up shit about Muslims and my Jewish father still calls blacks openly the N word. She apologized for two things she said when she was younger, I said shit similar to her when I was a teenager, lucky for me there was no internet to bring that shit back to haunt me.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)She said this stuff two years ago. That is not a lifetime ago. At all.
And there is a reason your father isn't being held up as a symbol of 'peace and love'
dilby
(2,273 posts)I support her and accept her apology.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I don't allow anti-semitism to stand. Ever. No excuses. Especially the vile nastiness she was spreading.
dilby
(2,273 posts)However if someone apologises for their previous behavior you can't continuously hold it over their head, their is no progress with that. If she truly was a Jew hater I have a feeling her Facebook would be covered in Anti Semitic comments not just two that were years old. Go look at the Facebook comments of some of the white power guys and there you will see real Anti Semitism.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)In one tweet dating from November 2012, she wrote: "Hitler didn't kill all the Jews, he left some. So we know why he was killing them."
And in another Facebook post from March 2014, she used an expletive to describe Jews before adding: "I hate them so much."
Again, this wasn't 20 years ago, 10 years ago or hell even 5 years ago.
dilby
(2,273 posts)It's not even an Original thought. I support her in her works and I would have no problem being around her.
cali
(114,904 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Give me a break.
You have some seriously fucked up ideas on what constitutes humor. The woman is a Jew hater and only gave a half assed apology so she could still snow suckers into thinking she changed. She's a repulsive bigot.
cali
(114,904 posts)
Behind the Aegis
(54,046 posts)Not even a day after you posted that article. I forgot part of the equation, which is also exemplified here, which is when Jews are attacked, besides having best friends (or being one), one must demonstrate what a bigot a single Jew is, therefore allowing it to be applicable to all Jews by proxy.
That's funny. Really funny. There's another words some actual Jews use, and it doesn't start with 'n.'
branford
(4,462 posts)genocide-condoning, rabidly antisemitic comments?
If so, would you kindly show me where I can find this in the official Democratic Platform?
Are we allowed a few free bigoted comments against groups like blacks, Latinos and homosexuals, or are Jews a special exception?
dilby
(2,273 posts)Anyways if you want to rake her over the coals for two comments made several years ago by all means don't let me hold you back.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)I wonder if you felt that way about Trent Lott ?
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Are you sure EVERYONE is ENTITLED to it?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)This is stupid.
Fuck's sake...
Democat
(11,617 posts)If she was a right wing Christian, it would be insensible. If she's another kind of right winger, it's okay.
cali
(114,904 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)Furthermore it's not like she was making those comments on a regular basis I mean they could only find 2 and they were made years ago.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to actually post them publicly, you can be sure she's said MUCH worse privately - as I'm sure she STILL does in private because she's a repulsive bigot.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Why is it we only call some people out on some hate?
Archae
(46,372 posts)You mean our insistence that Christianity is not the official religion of the US, something people like Kim Davis and David Barton say?
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)But the same hate spewed by others I have seen here over the years towards christians.
And hey - you know what? You are correct. Kim Davis, et al? Crazy scum in my book.
Then there are some I know who help the homeless, visit people in prison, pass out food, etc.
Now if I started a thread on this board bashing jews for their OT religion and gays/etc people would jump on my ass as being anti-semitic. If I did the same with christians? Yeah. It wouldn't be alerted on, hidden, etc but would probably find people like you who would bring up legit problems/issues for discussion.
Why does one religion get a pass and not others if the base principles being espoused by people are the same?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)substantiate that? Any links?
I ask because as soon as anyone is critical of any mainstream Christian belief or practice, there's a whole contingent on DU that cries "bigotry" as if just simply not believing in their religion is an affront to it. So forgive me for being skeptical.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)I have been here since 2004.
I could probably dig up some old links (haven't posted a lot in last few years) as simple examples but they wouldn't show, in context, the frequency of it over time.
2005 as one example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x34935
You may not find all you are looking for there, but remember I was on here most every day for hours.
And, heck, I can pretty much agree about some things said about Christians in the US (and elsewhere) on a broad scale. But look back over posts (even my own, I am far from perfect) and you will see people giving slack to some groups (jews/muslims) and then turning around and lumping christians together.
It is a problem of consistency (and, again, I have had my own views that haven't always lined up over time).
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)people are pointing out in this thread. Nothing even remotely comparable, hell 99% of it is criticisms of actions of various people who committed atrocities in the name of God, etc. Doesn't even rise to the level of bigotry.
Also a note, I've been on DU since about 2003, was TSed during the great LGBT purge, could get my old username back, but see no need for it.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If she hated Jews I would expect to see her making a comment like those every other day or so. Similar to how red necks make comments about Muslims every chance they get.
cali
(114,904 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)I highly doubt you have never heard that one before.
cali
(114,904 posts)Your defense of bigotry is shameful.
branford
(4,462 posts)Do you believe this episode is only about some minor off-color humor? WTF?
Her apology was also horrendous. Apparently, only Jewish Zionists should be dead. 
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)not many. This woman is vile. Anybody defending her the same.
shira
(30,109 posts)Great apology there.
We really, REALLY also need to be more tolerant of people who hate almost all Blacks or Muslims, save for the few who are "good" and know their place.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)on DU is revolting. Do they even realize the ONLY reason she apologized is because she got heat for her miserable views? Otherwise she'd still be wishing Jews were headed to the gas chambers.
melman
(7,681 posts)because it certainly doesn't, but how do you know that's what she was doing?
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I've been Jewish my whole life and never heard a non-offensive end to a Hitler joke. Enlighten us, let's all have a good laugh.
dilby
(2,273 posts)The difference between you and I is I can forgive a Muslim.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)....and apparently the woman in question.
dilby
(2,273 posts)Thus in my opinion she is just repeating what she heard and not coming up with new and creative ways to hate Jews.
melman
(7,681 posts)as long as she didn't make up the joke.
dilby
(2,273 posts)You are more focused on what she said over her apology or what she is saying today.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Again, and I know I am arguing with a bring wall, her comments were made less than 2 years ago. Get a grip.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Come on, this should be easy.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Well known among whom? I'm Jewish and I never heard it before. What kind of truly fucked up people do you hang out with?
Democat
(11,617 posts)Apparently some members of those groups are here.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)this kind of conversation on a liberal board. Defending a disgusting bigot who gave a lame assed non-apology apology. This is depressing.
REP
(21,691 posts)Is there some formula you're privy to?
Response to Archae (Original post)
Post removed
cali
(114,904 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)But that's exceptions.
Islam teaches antisemitism by default (Quran+hadiths).
cali
(114,904 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Also homophobic, misogynistic, supremacist over the infidels, etc, etc..
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But to most Muslims I guess he is not really a Muslim. He drinks, loves BBQ pork and calls the prohibitions against such bullshit.
The others(only 2 so I am really no authority) are rapid anti-Semites. One even got fired for verbally stating his views and moved back to Lebanon.
Response to Archae (Original post)
tenderfoot This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Democat
(11,617 posts)Look who's defending her.
7962
(11,841 posts)
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)and when gay marriage became legal the admin of the group, a male who I assume was muslim possibly Palestinian, went on a virulent anti gay rant, posted a picture of a cartoon character puking the rainbow colors and was all around vicious. He got pissed when a bunch of us got into it with him and called him a bigot. Needless to say I immediately quit the group. Oh well.
Archae
(46,372 posts)In Gaza it's still ILLEGAL to be gay. At all.
But..."Palestinians can do no wrong," donchu know.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)agnostic102
(198 posts)but gay Palestinians find a life of freedom and without fear of execution if they make it to israel. Its not always the case as israel is scared about letting Palestinians in. But the gay ones do get helped sometimes due to the fact they could be killed at any moment.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)The Third Way tent is big enough to encompass Pam Geller talking points but too small to encompass socialism?
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Modern Democrats stand against bigotry and anti-semitism, period. That's why from the time I was a kid, I knew this party was for me. Maybe if you have an issue with that, you should get out of the tent.
Violet_Crumble
(35,984 posts)A DUer who posted on another forum the same thing as the Muslim girl did in her second anti-semitic comment did and gave a very insincere apology was absolved of all blame by some at DU (apparently according to some of the excuses I read, it's okay for some to say they hate Jews because they're angry, or people need to read that comment in context). That DUer got big hugs from a bunch of DUers and people who pointed out their anti-semitism had their posts hidden. Try and work that one out.
Then there's the bunch who appear to think it's more important who it is who's making a bigoted comment than the bigotry itself. Some have made bigoted comments about Muslims and try to argue that they're not bigoted just the same way as anti-semites will try to argue that they're not bigots. With this thread the girl's comments were disgusting and bigoted, but there are some here who are far more interested in the fact that she's not only a Muslim, but a Muslim who did something positive a week or so ago. Someone who isn't a Muslim who said something similar didn't get any reaction from some of them.
And when it comes to anti-Muslim bigotry, there's not much difference in what's posted here and at Discussionist by conservatives. A whole lot of judging an entire group of people by the actions of some, a pathetic fear of immigrants and refugees, all mixed in with large dollops of wilful ignorance.
So I guess based on what I've seen at DU, modern Democrats stand against bigotry when it suits them and depending on who's making the bigoted comments. Kind of sad....
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)do indeed stand against those who would deny Israel the right to carry out legitimate governmental activities within their internationally-recognized borders and such activities outside those borders as are justified as self-defense under international law.
As for your "get out of the tent" comment, those are strong words coming from some one who has apparently, from their own description, only recently discovered that this party is for them.
Think about it.
cali
(114,904 posts)And call me a third way dem. I double dog dare ya.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)This entire string is filled with the EXACT SAME "white-splaining" (or should I say "West-splaining?"
that dominates the discussions of the devotees of right-wing Islamophobes like Pamela Geller. Unwilling, and in fact unable, to accept the fact that the Quran calls for no more violence, and extols no more historical violent events, than the scriptures of any other Western religion, many of the DUers on this string have embarked on the Geller-esque parsing of writing either not considered scriptural by followers of Islam, OR (yes, it gets worse) actually considered heretical by many Muslims, in order to come up with a handful of lines that they then march out as "proof" of the "evil" of Islam. Those who have done so, have only themselves to blame for the comparison.
If, you are not among them and are merely among those who have come to bash the carrier of a message of peace and religious tolerance (for that was indeed the message that drew attention to her in the first place) because of what she said three years ago (which, btw, would not place you among the Geller-philes described in my first paragraph and therefore deserving of an apology for the broad brush of my comment), allow me to suggest that there is still more room for discussion than you appear to believe. As others have pointed out, were we all held forever to what we said as 19 year-olds, none of us would be well-served.
A youthful Hillary Clinton embraced a man who was, at least at that point in his life, a confirmed racist and a man who unashamedly admitted that he was willing to kill millions in a nuclear war if that were what was necessary to stop the spread of Communism. (The fact that, unlike Hitler, Goldwater never rose to a position of power great enough to carry out the evil then in his soul, does not change the character of the person she praised.) When we set aside the politics of reminding people that Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl," (admittedly a legitimate tactic when used to draw attention to her current middle-right policies) most of us would not suggest that her early fascination with the dark side was indicative of her current nature. This young woman is no different.
If you are attacking her because her apology left those specific Israelis who are committing gross human rights violations in the Occupied Territories on a daily basis in a category of people who need to be killed, your point is valid. Violence is never the answer under any circumstance. On the other hand, on that question, there is blood on both sides AND it should not provide ANYONE with an excuse to reject the message of peace and religious tolerance that made her the target of those who are intractable in their hatred of Islam and who are unwilling to accept even the possibility that we all stand together.
cali
(114,904 posts)Yes, there are Islamaphobes in this thread. As you can see I confront them in this thread. One form of bigotry doesn't excuse another. And there are those like you in this thread who are explaining anti-Semitism to Jews.
If you don't grasp why her comments about Hitler leaving some Jews alive as an example of why they need to be exterminated, you are obtuse to an extraordinary point.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)I think we agree totally on that point.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)But hey, you do you.
7962
(11,841 posts)Anyone who thinks the Quran and the New Testament call for the same things in the same contexts hasnt read either of them
But feel free to welcome them into your home.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)with the bad . . . The New Testament is only half of the Christian spiritual text. You don't get to split off the less violent parts of Christian doctrine any more than Muslims get to split off the peaceful parts of the Qur'an. Taken as a whole, though, the Bible stays head to head with the Qur'an when it comes to sanctioning violence.
Keep on hating though.
7962
(11,841 posts)I'll stick with the side that doesnt chop off heads on a daily basis
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)but we get it . . . no on chopping off heads, yes on cruise missiles into weddings full of women and children.
romanic
(2,841 posts)are making excuses for this girl's anti-semitism. Seems the hierarchy of oppression strikes again. :I
Behind the Aegis
(54,046 posts)Like the cleaning of a house....it never ends!
I will say I am a bit more surprised there aren't more, maybe they are busy elsewhere.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Right wingers are bad only when they are Christian right wingers according to many here.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I consider opinions different than mind oppressive as well.
I also imply accusations rather than point to any one particular... that often happens when we lack the courage of our convictions. But, like me, I'm sure you'll rationalize a wholly separate fiction to better justify cowering behind implication.
sibelian
(7,804 posts):/
Brother Joe Observes
(61 posts)I respect people who criticize Israeli policies (though I disagree with most of them), but too many Jew-haters cloak themselves in false garments of "legitimacy."
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Operation Pillar of Defense (Hebrew: עַמּוּד עָנָן, ʿAmúd ʿAnán, literally: "Pillar of Cloud"
According to a UNHCR report, 174 Palestinians were killed and hundreds were wounded. Many families were displaced. One airstrike killed ten members of the al-Dalu family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pillar_of_Defense
Clearly the deaths of 174 Palestinians is no way near as bad as something a 19 year old girl wrote online in response to the killings.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Hitler killed a lot more than 174 people.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)This is something said by someone very young reacting to the slaughter of over 170 Palestinians by the IDF, it's understandable that she said things in the heat of the moment. Her words, which according to your source she has now deleted, didn't kill anyone. The IDF went on to kill even more during operation Cast Lead.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I'm supposed to be impressed she took the posts down AFTER TAKING HEAT FOR THEM? And that "apology" where she didn't mean ALL Jews should go the ovens, just the 90% of us that are Zionists. Being defending on a liberal board. Repulsive.
cali
(114,904 posts)devolving into hate against an entire minority. And by eight I knew better.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Being in America and enjoying the luxuries of Western living. What is really grotesque is the persecution of the Palestinian people including non judicial killing, indiscriminate locking up of children and military excursions. At eight I knew that killing was far more serious than saying bad things. Sticks and stones.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...but words can get you killed.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Clearly the owls are not what they seem.
cali
(114,904 posts)No one is saying it's as bad as as killing 174 children. That is apples and oranges. Justifying her comments is pitiful, and had she offered a real apology, that would certainly mitigate her comments.
But she did not.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)She didn't attack anyone, she said some stuff she later took down. So it's not like justifying attacks on Muslims. Nobody on this thread has said anything about the actions of the IDF, let alone saying the killing was bad.
I put her comments into context, which nobody else was even attempting to do. I didn't justify them, I mitigated them. Most of the responses on this thread have been out and out condemnation because it's far easily to see things in black and white than to look at the bigger picture, especially when white Americans are condemning someone with brown skin.
The actions of the IDF during various military excursions and the ongoing horror of the occupation have done far more to encourage anti Semitism than anything a young girl said during the heat of the moment. You won't be able to tackle anti Semitism without giving Palestinians justice. Btw, the Palestinians are a Semitic people too, just not the right type of Semitic for American sensibilities.
cali
(114,904 posts)This isn't rocket science
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)I was talking about the IDF and what they were doing in November 2012. I had to google David Duke. And I can't see what he, (an American,) had to do with anti Muslim demonstrations in Belgium.
Not everything is about America you know.
Btw, Zakia Belkhiri has since issued an apology for her comments.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/selfie-girl-at-anti-muslim-protest-apologises-for-anti-semitic-r/
cali
(114,904 posts)Your post is absurd. My response to you in no way indicates that i believe everything revolves around America. And that you directed that to me is laughable. My response to you was applicable. Yours to me was a non-sequitur.
You were the one who brought up David Duke in response to a thread about the anti Semitic tweets of a Muslim woman who took a selfie in Belgium at a far right anti Islam rally. What has David Duke got to do with any of this other than being a famous American racist?
7962
(11,841 posts)She apologized because she got CAUGHT. Otherwise she would have gone back and renounced or removed her statements BEFORE she got caught. She isnt sorry she said it, she's sorry she got caught.
Just like what we regularly say around here about the politicians who do the exact same thing after getting caught doing something
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)I mean it's only Palestinian lives after all.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The actions of the IDF during various military excursions and the ongoing horror of the occupation have done far more to encourage anti Semitism than anything a young girl said during the heat of the moment. You won't be able to tackle anti Semitism without giving Palestinians justice. Btw, the Palestinians are a Semitic people too, just not the right type of Semitic for American sensibilities.
is the biggest bunch of apologist bullshit I've seen in quite some time. First off, stop trying to redefine what anti semitism is - the dictionary spells it out quite clearly and it has NOTHING to do with American sensibilities. You're using the actions of the government of Israel to claim that hatred for Jews (which is what anti semitism is) is perfectly understandable but I'm betting if people were using 9/11 to claim that anti-Muslim sentiment was perfectly understandable, you would be howling.
Back to this woman who deserves whatever heat she's getting now - it's not like she had some epiphany and realized she was a hateful woman, she took heat for those posts and then she took them down and gave a half assed, pathetic apology that is rightly being scorned. She's getting exactly what she deserves.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Stop trying to figure out what religion someone is before deciding if being a right wingers is bad or good.
Liberals should be fighting against right wing extremists, not making them into heroes.
Bonx
(2,079 posts)
Fix The Stupid
(951 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)then the bombed righty's revolting bigotry is a special kind of bigotry that's.... ya know.... sort of understandable and... um... ya know, caused by American aggression. I think. Somehow.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)But so is the Islam-bashing in this thread as well.
branford
(4,462 posts)as a "good" and "progressive" Western Muslim, including much of the Muslim community.
When confronted with the obvious fact that some of her ideas rendered her similar or worse to the very right-wingers she was mocking in her original selfie, some in this same largely "liberal" audience doubled-down and defended or excused her rather than admit that ingrained antisemitism is a big problem in much of the Muslim community worldwide, particularly in Europe, and often expressed far more violently than some disgusting tweets.
The comments by many also demonstrate the double standards applied to racism and hatred of Jews. Many of the purported liberals here and elsewhere have never been so forgiving of allegedly anti-Muslim (or black, latino, gay, etc.) remarks or conduct, excused them as "humor" or youthful indiscretions, or had the temerity to tell Jews when and if they should be offended or forgiving, particularly when all other minority groups set the standards for their own offense.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)encountered the opposite.
Anyway, I don't think it's correct to blame a religion for some people's murky attitudes. It's much more complex than that, especially in a country like Belgium where everyone seems to hate each other. It's not an excuse, though - she could choose not to be an anti-Semite, but she didn't. She deserves the same kind of appreciation as the other people in that selfie.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Are you aware that the sacred texts of Islam (Quran + hadiths) are explicitly antisemitic?
(among other things including homophobia, misogyny, religious supremacism, etc, etc)
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Very often, criticism of Islam is just a fig leaf for racism. It's not about the religion itself, but rather the attitudes of people that are the real problem. A prejudiced Muslim or Christian will still be prejudiced without the religion. Blaming religion is a convenient way to pretend that the prejudice is impossible to get rid of, When it's actually nothing special with it and can be changed.
You are incorrectly applying attitudes to people who may not have them, and if they do, it's for different reasons than those you believe.
Not trying to be snarky, I'm just stating my own beliefs on the issue...
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)I am sure you share the view that any large group (say 1k+) taken randomly will show the same Gaussian dispersion around the mean for any given item: being nice, clever, whatever.
However, the mean can be changed by the prevalent socio-political discourse in society. You wouldn't find half the population of Iraeland or Cambodia in favor of the death penalty for adultery or blasphemy, while it is the average in the global Muslim world (with vast differences by country). That ludicrous 'mean' position can only be attributed, not to people, but to the ideology itself.
It is thus clearly not a case of racism but one of ideology: there is a problem with Islam.
(and one with the Roman Catholic Church about condoms and gays in Africa)
Violet_Crumble
(35,984 posts)And just to be clear, the girl's posts were repulsive and anti-semitic. It's just that sweeping negative generalisations of ANY group of people is bigotry and it seems to me that some who rightly decry it when aimed at one group are quite happy to fling those generalisations around when it comes to other groups.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Muslims, like most believers of most religions, don't know much about them, and most believers are just folks: some good, bad, ugly, nice, whatever.
But religious ideologies can be ugly: the Hindu Sita, the Maya human sacrifices, the catholic homophobia, the islamic sexism and supremacism come to mind.
Violet_Crumble
(35,984 posts)If Yr going to reply to a question I asked someone else, it'd help if you tried answering the question.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Muslims are not Islam.
Muslims = people, good, bad, anything
Islam = bigoted ideology.
Violet_Crumble
(35,984 posts)Because I don't, which is why I asked the other person if they could spot any anti-Muslim posts in this thread. Not anti-Islam, but anti-Muslim. Me, I'm an atheist and know all major religions are rooted in nasty bigoted and sexist texts and ideologies. It's when people lump most or all members of any of those religions, most of which have many different sects and denominations, in one basket and paint them as all being the same and thinking exactly the same that it becomes bigotry.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)If the quotes had been from an America. about black people, expressing a desire to kill them all, would we see the same excuses made?
I don't think so
G_j
(40,372 posts)and that all those people wanted to so badly to believe in her, or in the prospect of peace.
It's just sad.
Response to Archae (Original post)
lancer78 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Behind the Aegis
(54,046 posts)That's some fucked up "logic." Her bigoted remarks weren't about Israelis, they were about Jews. As a matter of fact, one of her comments, the one evoking Hitler, didn't have shit to do with Israel because it didn't exist. Making anti-Semitic remarks isn't the mark of someone who isn't a "big fan of Jews," it is the mark of an anti-Semite.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)Anti-Semite? Do you think she was born that way? Anyone with half a brain knows the reasons behind her anti-semitism.
I didn't say it mitigates her hatred for jews, but in my eyes, un-colored by bias, I can easily see where she is coming from.
Behind the Aegis
(54,046 posts)Do you think she was born that way? No. And your remarkably stupid question indicates a wild swing. Nobody is "born" a bigot; that is a learned behavior.
Anyone with half a brain knows the reasons behind her anti-semitism. Yes, she is a Jew hater who is incapable of distinguishing the acts of one group for another and uses the actions of a few to condemn an entire people.
"but in my eyes, un-colored by bias,"
"I can easily see where she is coming from." Really now?
So Trump's comments about Muslims are hateful, but "it is easy to understand where he is coming from" because he was in NYC during the 9-11 attacks, and therefore "anyone with half a brain knows the reasons behind his Islamophobia? Hmmm, sounds like a pathetic attempt to excuse, even justify, bigotry against an entire group for the actions of a few, much like the subject of the OP.
It is always interesting to watch people "defend" this type of behavior, then take it a step further and actual blame the victims of the bigotry for the bigotry against them.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)Behind the Aegis
(54,046 posts)It is irrelevant whether Jews condemn Israel and its actions or not. We are not responsible for anti-Semitism directed against us.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)but neither is Islam. If you saw a lot less support for terrorists among Muslims, you would see a lot less bigotry against Muslims.
More DISGUSTING defense for this horrid woman's Jew hatred. Yes - we know exactly what's behind her anti-semitism - she's a fucking bigot.
Democat
(11,617 posts)What would your reaction be?
And I hate the terrorists for it. And I think all terrorists should be swept off the face of the planet.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Using your own logic.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)She should have just gone after Israeli's. That is why I deleted my post. It was early in the morning and not thought out.
Hopefully one day more Jews will condemn the actions of Israel regarding the settlements and hopefully that will ease some of the bigotry against the entire Jewish community.
