This information needs to get to people in US. DO NOT TALK TO POLICE WITHOUT ATTORNEY!

[Maraya1969]

Today's Dr. Phil is about "The making of a murderer"

The biggest ashtonishment I had while watching the first 3 episodes, because I haven't finished the series and I might not because it just makes me furious is this:


Steven Avery spent 18 years in prison for a crime he did not committ and then when they picked him up for the murder of the woman (forget name) he spoke to the police WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY!

And then his nephew did the same thing!


This is the message I want to get out to poor people in this country. Always ask for an attrorney. You have the right to stay silent!

Just think of what might have happened if both of them refused to talk until they were given an attorney.

[jonno99]

1. K&R

[Paladin]

2. Wait until you see the antics of the 16 year-old's "attorney."

The red-headed guy who's a dead ringer for the crooked car dealer in the "Fargo" movie. Makes me want to puke, just thinking about it.

[403Forbidden]

3. The vast majority of people will speak to police w/o an attorney...

...because they've been taught from a VERY EARLY age that "cops are our friends".

And even if people are hesitant to talk to police, most will still talk simply because they thing the police "is the law".

[closeupready]

6. On jury duty once in federal criminal court, another juror actually said,

"well, okay, the prosecutor doesn't really have anything, but surely, he's guilty of SOMETHING? I mean, the police wouldn't have arrested him if he hadn't done something wrong."

And that, DESPITE the fact that the judge lectured us (over an excruciatingly long and boring period of time prior to deliberations) that an arrest is not, in any way, shape, or form, evidence of guilt.

Some people, I think, just don't want face the reality that there are all kinds of errors that happen in our criminal justice system.

[DefenseLawyer]

4. You can't worry about "looking suspicious" by refusing to answer questions

Remember, the fact that you invoke your 5th Amendment privileges can't be used as evidence in your case, so it really doesn't matter how it "looks" to the police. A lot of people get tripped up on that concept. People have a natural tendency to want to appear cooperative and to demonstrate that they have "nothing to hide" even when they know better.

[Jnclr89]

16. Yep.. but years have changed me

If asked, I would have talked w/o a lawyer , if I were innocent. That seems to be a major problem now. I would always ask for a lawyer now.

[DefenseLawyer]

19. Part of the problem

Is a misunderstanding of what the police officer is usually doing. In most cases he isn't just getting "your side of the story" or just gathering facts. In most cases he already "knows" what happened and he's talking to you to get you to confirm what he thinks he already knows. Far too often investigations start with the police deciding what happened, and then looking for things that will confirm it. So if he thinks you are guilty (and he probably does or he wouldn't be talking to you) and you confess, he's happy; if you don't you are obviously lying. So nothing good comes out of that conversation.

[Kelvin Mace]

5. This lecture is a bit long

but it absolutely makes crystal clear why you NEVER speak to the police, no matter how innocent you factually are, without an attorney.

[Maraya1969]

18. When he tested everyone told that story of the "gang type murder" I was sure I caught

(The question and answer about the information in the beginning is at 18:20. if you want to do it yourself don't read further until you do)


what was going to be the place where he was going to try and trip everyone up. The newspaper or whatever he was reading from said "three people dead" and he also said "gang style" or something like that but also, "murder suicide"

So I in my brilliant mind think that the problem is that they are looking for a suspect when the suspect is already dead in the murder suicide.

Then when he asked how many people were shot I think THREE!!!!!!!!


Therefor I am one of the people who should never ever speak to the police under any circumstances!~~

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. It is a sad commentary that the fact of innocence is not sufficient to

dissuade the prosecution from seeking an unjust conviction that punishes the innocent and leaves the guilty at large.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. It is far worse,

Check out the Herrera v. Collins decision from 1993 where the Supreme Court said,in essence, that factual innocence was not a bar to execution.

[Beaverhausen]

7. Avery poured gasoline on a cat and threw it into a fire

I don't give a shit about him.

[DefenseLawyer]

8. So as long as it's someone you don't like

you have no problem with the person being wrongly convicted of a crime? That seems about right.

[Jim Beard]

11. I doubt the cat does either.

[Maraya1969]

13. There are 2 different stories about that too. And yea it doesn't mean he murdered that woman

[Beaverhausen]

17. He plead guilty to it

[Maraya1969]

20. Guilty to what? Pouring gasoline and then lighting him or trying to toss the cat over a fire?

I heard 2 stories.

[Beaverhausen]

23. Pouring gasoline and oil on the cat

And throwing it into the fire. Deliberately, not "negging around" with it, whatever that means.

Check his wiki page for confirmation. He's a sick person.

[Maraya1969]

24. OK I checked and you are right. That still does not mean that it is OK

to plant evidence or to not give a person a fair trial.

I have the same feelings about people that abuse animals.

But some people have the same feelings about people just because their skin is a different color or they are from the wrong side of the tracks or the wrong religion.

If we do not demand that everyone be given a fair trial then what the Hell are we? Our constitutional rights are supposed to be for everyone, even though we know that far too often that is not the case. But to believe that some deserve these rights more than others or some do not deserve them for any reason is part of the problem we are facing here already.

[vanlassie]

9. Avery is clearly not the brightest. And the nephew is mentally challenged.

I can't possibly imagine them being capable of eradicating every MOLOCULE of evidence from the house and the garage. Not credible.

[Jim Beard]

10. The cops say they are your friend and want to help you. BS !!!

[littlewolf]

12. K&R

[LannyDeVaney]

14. And hope you aren't shot ... don't forget that part

NFM

[Maraya1969]

15. Sorry but you'll have to catch me up on the newest vernacular. NFM ??

[Facility Inspector]

26. If you refuse to talk

they more than likely will kick your ass.

Once you're in the station, the likelihood of getting shot is practically nonexistent.

But if you clam up, just be ready to sit in the hoosegow for a minute.

[avebury]

21. If you want to read a real eye opener, read "Chasing Justice: My

Story of Freeing Myself After Two Decades on Death Row for a Crime I didn't Commit" by Kerry Max Cook. His story leaves this story in the dust when it comes to what the system can do to an innocent person. I think that the Prosecutor in Cook's case should have been flat out sent to prison for what he did. I really recommend this book for people who want to see how the justice system in this country is broken.

In addition, I don't know if the law is still the same, but at the time of Cook's several trials, under Texa Law a person could not be a juror on a death penalty case unless he/she was in 100% in favor of the death penalty. The jury system was rigged from the start to be made up of people predisposed to vote for the death penalty without actually considering if the prosecution's version of the events even makes sense.

[Maraya1969]

22. It made sense when you said "Texas" I have read so many horror stories

about that place and their "justice system"

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Odin2005]

25. THE POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND.

They are the enforcers of the Capitalist State, nothing more, nothing less. The original organized police force, London's, was set up to repress industrial workers and the urban poor from protesting and to root out radical organization.