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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJames Dobson Struggles To Explain Why Gay People Shouldn’t Be Stoned To Death
Televangelist Andrew Wommack invited James Dobson onto his The Gospel Truth program last week, where he asked the Focus on the Family founder how he responds to people who say if youre going to oppose homosexuality on what the Bible says, it also says that youre supposed to stone them to death.
Do you believe in stoning them to death? Do you want to kill all homosexuals? Wommack asked Dobson.
I dont, Dobson responded, and thats a tough question, because that comes out of the Mosaic law but I dont believe You have to take the entire Bible and as far as I know theres no place else in the Bible that tells us to kill those who dont believe what we believe.
This is not true, as Wommack pointed out before giving his own justification for why Christians can condemn gay people without killing them. You know the Old Testament did say to kill a homosexual, to kill an adulteress, to kill a witch, Womack said. You had to kill them. And if your children were rebellious and didnt respond the first time you corrected them, you had to bring them to the elders and let them kill them. And the way I respond to that is that in the Old Covenant people couldnt be born again. They couldnt have their nature changed the way that we can.
Wommack said that there is no more need to kill people over homosexuality and adultery because we now have a cure for it, through faith in Jesus. He continued that sins such as homosexuality are like cancer, for which no cure can be found in the Old Testament. The only real cure, he explained, is to deliver people through salvation through Jesus.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/james-dobson-struggles-explain-why-gay-people-shouldn-t-be-stoned-death#sthash.Cv6KPRx1.dpuf
shraby
(21,946 posts)niyad
(112,435 posts)jmowreader
(50,453 posts)csziggy
(34,120 posts)To seal you away from contamination!
niyad
(112,435 posts)should be killed, that witches should be killed, that "obstreperous" children should be killed, because xianity is a religion of peace.
going to go throw up now.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Somewhere back there I was given the explanation that Christ "fullfilled" all the old testament "covenants" and brought a "new law". As such, all that killing and stuff was no longer applicable, much less circumcision and kosher. I think christians get out from under usery that way too.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Christians, being largely Gentiles, are not subject to the Covenant of Mt. Sinai, but rather the Laws of Noah.
Ergo, almost none of the "old" testament applies to them, except to illuminate and explain the Laws of Noah. This is rather expressly stated in the Christian Gospels and in Paul's writings.
As an aside, the "old" testament is really only a fraction of the Covenant of Mt. Sinai, most of which is contained and explained in the Talmud, which also makes clear that a lot of the absurd conclusions people make when reading the Torah (e.g., stoning for adultery) are incorrect.
Reading the Tanakah (aka Bible, sans Christian additions) alone, without the Talmud, would be like reading the index to the US Code and trying to make decisions without the text of the laws themselves.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)atreides1
(16,046 posts)Jesus endorses Mosaic Law in Matthew 5:18 where he says: "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished".
Which could mean that all of the laws listed in the Old Testament, not just those having to do with same sex relationships, technically still apply!
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I don't pretend to be a Christian scholar, but what the Nazarine said should be read in that context.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)accomplished to disestablish the law. This is why they get to eat lobster.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)but I'm not a minister or biblical expert
Xithras
(16,191 posts)To those not blinded by religious hate, John 8: 7 is an obvious rejection of the brutal punishments and discrimination outlined in Mosaic law. The Pharisees very specifically brought the adulterous woman before Jesus to test him and see if he would uphold the punishment specified in the Old Testament (death). He didn't. He not only set a precedent by preventing sinners from standing in judgement of other sinners, but he himself refused to judge or condemn her for her actions...even though they were a blatant violation of Mosaic law.
I have a few relatives who no longer speak to me because of that passage. I told them that Christs meaning was clear and obvious to anyone who reads it, and that to OPPOSE Christ's teachings means that you...by DEFINITION...cannot be a Christian.
I like to ask my Christian friends a simple question whenever this topic comes up: "If you are standing AGAINST the teachings of Christ, who are you standing FOR?" They usually get pissed off at me at that point.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I'm presuming they are all some variation of protestant. Explain to them that they aren't following the "teachings" of Christ, especially if their source is some variation of the King James Bible. It isn't all that clear that ANY of Jesus' teachings survived, unadulterated. Mostly what people are "following" these days are the teachings of the Apostles influnence over Paul. So basically your friends are all "following" the "teachings" of the early papacy.
And really, attempts to identify the personality of Jesus by scholars typically describe some what of a hot headed liberal by any modern definition. He'd a probably fit right in with the Occupy movement. Extreme care and concern for the poor and "under classes". A fair amount of "hatred" for the money changers and the posturing "faithful". And a tendency to scare and piss off the ruling authorities at the time by speaking a touch too much truth to power.
Sounds like a liberal to me.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Let's start with Hoseah 13:16 and work from there.
hedda_foil
(16,368 posts)How does that work? I mean, when the preacher dunks you, he says "presto changeo, nature exchanges"? Or something on that order?
edhopper
(33,208 posts)a bit too Meta.