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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:35 PM Dec 2015

James Dobson Struggles To Explain Why Gay People Shouldn’t Be Stoned To Death

Televangelist Andrew Wommack invited James Dobson onto his “The Gospel Truth” program last week, where he asked the Focus on the Family founder how he responds to people who say “if you’re going to oppose homosexuality on what the Bible says, it also says that you’re supposed to stone them to death.”

“Do you believe in stoning them to death? Do you want to kill all homosexuals?” Wommack asked Dobson.

“I don’t,” Dobson responded, “and that’s a tough question, because that comes out of the Mosaic law but I don’t believe — You have to take the entire Bible and as far as I know there’s no place else in the Bible that tells us to kill those who don’t believe what we believe.”

This is not true, as Wommack pointed out before giving his own justification for why Christians can condemn gay people without killing them. “You know the Old Testament did say to kill a homosexual, to kill an adulteress, to kill a witch,” Womack said. “You had to kill them. And if your children were rebellious and didn’t respond the first time you corrected them, you had to bring them to the elders and let them kill them. And the way I respond to that is that in the Old Covenant people couldn’t be born again. They couldn’t have their nature changed the way that we can.”

Wommack said that there is no more need to kill people over homosexuality and adultery because “we now have a cure for it, through faith in Jesus.” He continued that sins such as homosexuality are like cancer, for which no cure can be found in the Old Testament. The only real “cure,” he explained, is to “deliver” people “through salvation through Jesus.”

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/james-dobson-struggles-explain-why-gay-people-shouldn-t-be-stoned-death#sthash.Cv6KPRx1.dpuf

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James Dobson Struggles To Explain Why Gay People Shouldn’t Be Stoned To Death (Original Post) n2doc Dec 2015 OP
Where's my hip waders? This is too deep for barn boots. shraby Dec 2015 #1
would let you borrow my wellies, but I need them for wading through this muck. niyad Dec 2015 #3
. mmonk Dec 2015 #4
This is too deep for hip waders. Try a deep-diving suit. jmowreader Dec 2015 #10
A hazmat suit or maybe astronaut gear would be recommended csziggy Dec 2015 #13
and people tell me that I am wrong when I say that some xians say women who commit adultery niyad Dec 2015 #2
That's the way I was taught zipplewrath Dec 2015 #5
The answer is actually very simple MosheFeingold Dec 2015 #12
Organized religion...what a crock. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2015 #6
Mr. Wommack is wrong atreides1 Dec 2015 #7
See my post above MosheFeingold Dec 2015 #14
According to the Christians it was the birth, death and ressurection of Jesus that had to be Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #17
I would have went with John 8:7 sarisataka Dec 2015 #8
Same. One of the most important passages in the New Testament IMHO. Xithras Dec 2015 #11
Well, if ya really wanna piss 'em off zipplewrath Dec 2015 #19
Christians could avoid this kind of confusion, if they really wanted to. phantom power Dec 2015 #9
"there’s no place else in the Bible that tells us to kill those who don’t believe what we believe" arcane1 Dec 2015 #15
" Covenant people couldn’t be born again. They couldn’t have their nature changed the way that we ca hedda_foil Dec 2015 #16
Dizzying... Deuce Dec 2015 #18
Isn't using the Bible to comment on the Bible edhopper Dec 2015 #20

niyad

(112,435 posts)
2. and people tell me that I am wrong when I say that some xians say women who commit adultery
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:39 PM
Dec 2015

should be killed, that witches should be killed, that "obstreperous" children should be killed, because xianity is a religion of peace.

going to go throw up now.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
5. That's the way I was taught
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:44 PM
Dec 2015

Somewhere back there I was given the explanation that Christ "fullfilled" all the old testament "covenants" and brought a "new law". As such, all that killing and stuff was no longer applicable, much less circumcision and kosher. I think christians get out from under usery that way too.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
12. The answer is actually very simple
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:21 PM
Dec 2015

Christians, being largely Gentiles, are not subject to the Covenant of Mt. Sinai, but rather the Laws of Noah.

Ergo, almost none of the "old" testament applies to them, except to illuminate and explain the Laws of Noah. This is rather expressly stated in the Christian Gospels and in Paul's writings.

As an aside, the "old" testament is really only a fraction of the Covenant of Mt. Sinai, most of which is contained and explained in the Talmud, which also makes clear that a lot of the absurd conclusions people make when reading the Torah (e.g., stoning for adultery) are incorrect.

Reading the Tanakah (aka Bible, sans Christian additions) alone, without the Talmud, would be like reading the index to the US Code and trying to make decisions without the text of the laws themselves.

atreides1

(16,046 posts)
7. Mr. Wommack is wrong
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:49 PM
Dec 2015

Jesus endorses Mosaic Law in Matthew 5:18 where he says: "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished".

Which could mean that all of the laws listed in the Old Testament, not just those having to do with same sex relationships, technically still apply!

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
14. See my post above
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:23 PM
Dec 2015

I don't pretend to be a Christian scholar, but what the Nazarine said should be read in that context.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
17. According to the Christians it was the birth, death and ressurection of Jesus that had to be
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:31 PM
Dec 2015

accomplished to disestablish the law. This is why they get to eat lobster.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
11. Same. One of the most important passages in the New Testament IMHO.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:20 PM
Dec 2015

To those not blinded by religious hate, John 8: 7 is an obvious rejection of the brutal punishments and discrimination outlined in Mosaic law. The Pharisees very specifically brought the adulterous woman before Jesus to test him and see if he would uphold the punishment specified in the Old Testament (death). He didn't. He not only set a precedent by preventing sinners from standing in judgement of other sinners, but he himself refused to judge or condemn her for her actions...even though they were a blatant violation of Mosaic law.

I have a few relatives who no longer speak to me because of that passage. I told them that Christs meaning was clear and obvious to anyone who reads it, and that to OPPOSE Christ's teachings means that you...by DEFINITION...cannot be a Christian.

I like to ask my Christian friends a simple question whenever this topic comes up: "If you are standing AGAINST the teachings of Christ, who are you standing FOR?" They usually get pissed off at me at that point.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
19. Well, if ya really wanna piss 'em off
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 04:42 PM
Dec 2015

I'm presuming they are all some variation of protestant. Explain to them that they aren't following the "teachings" of Christ, especially if their source is some variation of the King James Bible. It isn't all that clear that ANY of Jesus' teachings survived, unadulterated. Mostly what people are "following" these days are the teachings of the Apostles influnence over Paul. So basically your friends are all "following" the "teachings" of the early papacy.

And really, attempts to identify the personality of Jesus by scholars typically describe some what of a hot headed liberal by any modern definition. He'd a probably fit right in with the Occupy movement. Extreme care and concern for the poor and "under classes". A fair amount of "hatred" for the money changers and the posturing "faithful". And a tendency to scare and piss off the ruling authorities at the time by speaking a touch too much truth to power.

Sounds like a liberal to me.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
15. "there’s no place else in the Bible that tells us to kill those who don’t believe what we believe"
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:06 PM
Dec 2015

Let's start with Hoseah 13:16 and work from there.

hedda_foil

(16,368 posts)
16. " Covenant people couldn’t be born again. They couldn’t have their nature changed the way that we ca
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:19 PM
Dec 2015

How does that work? I mean, when the preacher dunks you, he says "presto changeo, nature exchanges"? Or something on that order?

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