How Long Does It Take To Decompose?

[babylonsister]

Just a reminder...





From here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Post-Rally-to-Restore-Sanity-ChatDiscussion-Page/100377760029231

[Broderick]

1. Wow on Diapers

That's crazy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. While on a tour in Puebla we saw a Pañalería

The business is to make cloth diapers, that you can wash at home. I was surprised to see that given how popular disposable diapers are.

In the old days these places also washed them, for a price.

[Broderick]

6. I used to have a customer whose wife in Virginia Beach

Ran a cloth diaper business. When we moved one location to Norfolk and closed the upper Virginia Beach location, the customer drifted away. I remember dropping him off at home while we worked on his car, and the entire garage was completely full of diapers. She didn't make them, but marketed them on their website.

I was not aware of the decomposing cycle time. Floored me. I think a good green company to start up might be the wash and supply of cloth diapers again. It may be the perfect time to build that. I don't know of any other company around me that does it. As I said, she just supplied the cloth diapers from home, but no services beyond that.


hmmm.

[Cleita]

22. Let's see in 1952, my mother and I helped a new mother whose husband was overseas in the Korean War.

She was staying with us so as not to be alone when the baby came. Back then you flushed the cloth diaper in the toilet first, while you hung on to it, and then you washed it along with the diapers you accumulated through the day in the washer and hung them on the line. My job, when I came home from school, was to take the dry diapers off the line and fold them. The next day the same thing happened all over again supposedly until the kid was out of diapers, but the new mother didn't need our help for that long.

In the 1960's my married friends who had babies hired a diaper service. They put the dirty diapers, after the toilet flush, in a pail to deliver to the service when clean and dry diapers were delivered. This was much easier.

In 1970 a young neighbor of mine who just had a baby talked about how great Pampers were. Compared to the previous ways of dealing with dirty diapers, they certainly were a big help to the mother, especially now that most of them seemed to have to keep and work a job.

Is it time to go back to the drawing board?

[blue neen]

28. I can remember helping my mother with little sister's diapers.

The part you described about rinsing them out in the toilet first was especially gross!

When you think about the resources that were used for the cloth diapers process, you wonder which is more damaging ecologically--cloth or disposable. The cloth ones were laundered everyday, using water, soap, electricity. Meanwhile, the Pampers are around for 550 years, so that's unacceptable, too!

It would be great if some smart person out there could invent disposable diapers that performed well, but were better for the environment!

[CottonBear]

45. I use cloth diapers for my child and I only wash them once per week.

I use Gerber cloth diapers, pins and plastic pants. I have two types of large flat fold diapers (two different types of weaves) and two types of multilayer pre-folded (3-layer and 6-layer) diapers. I probably have 6 or 7 dozen diapers.

When my baby was an infant, I used just one large diaper folded. Of course, the changes were frequent! As he grew I layered pre-folded diapers into the larger flat diapers. Now that he just uses diapers for overnight and nap time and he's much larger, I use two flat folds as an outer diaper wrap with two 6-layer diapers inside. Learning how to layer, fold and pin is sort of like diaper origami!

I have a large 5 gallon bucket with a lid that snaps on securely for use as a diaper pail. The bucket doubles as a handy seat next to the tub during bath time. I rinse out poopy diapers in the toilet and then rinse them in the tub. Pee pee diapers just get rinsed in the tub. Then I squeeze them out and place them in the diaper pail. The diaper pail has water (about 1/4 full to start) with about 1/2 cup of Borax added. I add hot water as needed to keep the diapers wet. The Borax is a deodorizer and laundry detergent booster. When the pail is full, I empty it into the tub to drain. Then I put them back in the pail and carry them to the washer.

Washing involves an initial hot water wash cycle with a cup of Borax but no detergent. This is to thoroughly rinse the diapers. Then I hot water wash the diapers with free and clear detergent and a cup of Borax. The final stage is another wash cycle (this one can be cold) with a cup of white vinegar added. (Never use bleach. It will destroy the diapers.) Then off to the dryer. Voila! Clean, fresh diapers!

I use the real, original Desitin (40% zinc oxide and fish oil) as a diaper cream. I spread a thick layer all over the front and back of the diaper area. Be sure to spread some around where the leg bands of the plastic pants will be.

I wash the diaper pants after each use. I use warm water and baby wash, paying particular attention to the elastic leg bands which can harbor germs and bacteria. Every once in a while, I soak the pants in warm water with a tiny amount of bleach to disinfect them. This is especially important when there has been a poopy blowout. I hang them to dry on suction hooks in the shower and on laundry hooks on the shower rod.

This is a tried and true system. I have saved a HUGE amount of money over 3 1/2 years. When diapers are no longer needed, then I'll have a large supply of cotton cleaning cloths! A few of my original flat folds have frayed and torn and now I use them for cleaning.

I have used disposable diapers from time to time when we were traveling, in the car for very long trips or when babysitters did not know how to fold and pin cloth diapers.

I had to get my diaper supplies from a Babies R Us in another city because there is not a store where I live. The supplies can be ordered online. Unfortunately, most stores (Walmart, Kmart, Target, Toys R Us etc.) don't carry basic cloth diaper supplies any longer.

[SheilaT]

60. I had my oldest when the big switch

from cloth to disposables was underway. It made me crazy that people acted as if dealing with cloth diapers was so incredibly difficult. It's not. I used cloth with both mine, and even had the audacity to carry cloth with me when travelling.

There's also been a huge slowdown in toilet training kids in the past fifteen or so years, and I'm convinced it's because the disposable diaper system doesn't allow a kid to feel wet. So why bother to learn to use a toilet, to actually monitor that part of yourself, when you can just wear a diaper all day.

[CottonBear]

73. I agree with you about the toilet training slowdown.

Disposables are so absorbent that the child never feels wet. I let my child run around without underwear or pants when potty training. I also just let him wear pull on shorts with no underwear. I have an upstairs potty chair and a downstairs potty chair. Overnight potty training is our final challenge. I feel that he"ll achieve that in the next 6-12 months.

I've taken cloth diapers with me when traveling too. I have a little plastic bin with a lid and a handle for a portable diaper pail. I don't soak the diapers in water like I do at home.

I also use very soft and smooth textured poly-cotton baby washcloths (purchased at Publix) as baby wipes. They get washed with the diapers. I have a little plastic hospital tray that(from the hospital stay when he was born) that I put the diaper pins and wash cloths in while changing diapers.

I do realize that most daycare centers require disposable diapers. So, cloth is not a choice for many families even though it's cheaper.

Were disposables expensive when first on the market? My sibling was a baby when I was six. I remember the cloth diaper routine from then. My mom did not use disposables even though they were newly available. She even traveled and lived overseas with me as a tiny baby and she used cloth diapers!

[SheilaT]

78. In relative terms, I think they were about the same as they are now, although I

haven't taken a look at the price of a box of disposables in about twenty years. I do recall quite clearly when all of a sudden, in a very short time (no more than two or three weeks) all of the makers of disposables put significantly fewer diapers in a box while leaving the price the same. At that point I was occasionally using the disposables, but not after that.

There's also the propaganda out there that because of the financial and environmental aspects of washing the cloth ones, that the disposables are ultimately cheaper. Not true. Plus, the huge environmental factor for disposables is not only how many centuries they take to decompose, but that they make up a significant percentage of the garbage any more.

And yes, for those with a child in daycare, the kid will wear disposables then, but there's no reason not to do cloth at home.

I realize that this is in the end a very personal choice, but people ought to be very clear about what they are choosing, what the real costs and consequences are.

[CTyankee]

63. Back in the day I put the Desitin on the baby, not the diaper! Never heard of that!

I did put Borax in the diaper pail after I rinsed the diaper out (if poopy). Every wash was done in hot water.

that was back in the 60's. My kids didn't do that for their babies. They used disposable.

[CottonBear]

74. I put (lots) of Desitin on my baby not on the diaper.

Sorry if I was confusing. Real Desitin is the gold standard for cloth diapering.

A hot water rinse and wash, Borax, mild (free and clear or Dreft) detergent and a white vinegar rinse to remove detergent residue is the key to clean cloth diapers.

[jwirr]

23. Some of the more environmentally prone people in our area use clothe diapers. That is one

area I wish science could find a better way. There are so many people like my adult daughter who have had to wear diapers for all of their life. And when they are elderly.

With my daughter I washed clothe diapers for the first 26 years of her life. She now wears disposable. We tried finding another solution but the only one we found Medicaid/Medicare would not pay for. They were very willing to pay for disposible ones though.

[Sirveri]

44. let them roam free naked in the backyard like nature intended!

-Homer Simpson

Probably not the best plan, but really, at this point, I'm thinking about it.

[jwirr]

50. That might work for babies but not for adults. They would get arrested and put in some institution

that would still use disposable diapers.

One thing that could be done besides clothe diapers is that children can be potty trained much sooner than they are now. When we had to wash those diapers we had them trained at about 1 year. A lot of work but cheaper and better for the environment.

[CottonBear]

76. I found a link for baby/toddler diaper covers with disposable, biodegradable inserts.

http://www.gdiapers.com/environmentally-friendly-diapers/gdiapering

These biodegradable diaper inserts can be flushed, thrown away or composted (non poopy). The diaper cover is moisture wicking cotton with closure tabs.

Perhaps the company could create the same product for adults who need diapers.

Maybe you could contact the company regarding manufacturing the product in adult sizes.

[jwirr]

77. Thank you.

[RC]

30. What did people thousands of years ago do before diapers?

Before washing machines, before cloth? Just rocks, wood and animal hides.

[OnionPower1]

2. it's ok

just tell us where you hid the body. we're all friends here.

[babylonsister]

4. Haha!

[freshwest]

16. Yeah, my first thought, too. But damn, but those plastic bags are evil stuff!

Then I wondered where plutonium was on the list, but naturally it wouldn't be. Too disturbing.

I'll amend my ways on some of the list, although I've organized my life to eliminate most of the stuff on the list.

It's not like we're living in a tropical jungle and wrapping the food up in banana leaves, or something like that.

Thanks for the list, will be sharing this.

[laundry_queen]

52. Aren't they?

One thing I've also found frustrating is that my 'recycled pop bottle' re-usable bags cannot survive one go-through in the washer. I need something I can wash, as I don't exactly want to get e.coli or salmonella from an unwashed bag.

So...I'm going to try my hand at making plarn bags.

Plarn? What is that you ask?

http://diyfashion.about.com/od/diyfashion101/tp/Plarn.htm

Then you can make reusable bags that last 1000 years Assuming they can make it through a wash cycle...

[freshwest]

53. I lucked out because 22 years ago I bought some beautiful canvas bags from PCC or

Puget Consumer's Co-op. They've held up all these years and all those washes. Some are maroon, the others were dark green, but kind of fading now. Big, heavy duty guys.

I never bought the newer ones available in the stores, I figured they wouldn't be washable. Good luck making the plarn bags, those will take some skill to make.

BTW, love your signature. Even though he's passed on now, the world needs more people willing to say such things.

[SheilaT]

61. You can also crochet various bags to

tote things in. Cotton yarn is especially good for this purpose.

[tridim]

5. We should build houses out of disposable diapers.

They'd last forever.

[onehandle]

7. Cigarette butts are the #1 most polluted item in the world.

Drains and sewer systems everywhere are choked and blocked by them.

[Odin2005]

54. More reason for public smoking bans.

[scarletwoman]

8. I don't know. I hadn't planned on starting just yet.

[babylonsister]

13. Hello, scarletwoman!

Long time! Nice to see you.

[scarletwoman]

68. Hello back, babylonsister!

My apologies for not getting back to this thread sooner. And I should probably also apologize for posting a joke reply to your OP - I just couldn't resist, with a straight line like that.

Anyway, I hope I'm making up for it, at least little, by kicking your thread.

And seriously, on the subject of trash - it's disturbed me for years, how much we humans generate. I used cloth diapers for my kids, back when they were babies (decades ago). For the rest, I recycle as much as I can and end up with only one or two small bags of trash for my one day a month garbage pick up. It won't save the world, of course...

[babylonsister]

71. No apologies necessary;

from years on DU, my skin is bullet-proof! We are very much into recycling here, too, composting, etc. Bugs the heck out of me that so many people are either ignorant or just don't care.

[Union Scribe]

31. !

[Odin2005]

55. DUzy!!!

[calimary]

66. Double DUzy!!!

That was a good one, scarletwoman!

[scarletwoman]

70. Well, thank you kindly. :D

Nice to see you!

[TahitiNut]

59. Hell, I haven't finished composing yet so it'll be awhile.

[scarletwoman]

69. TahitiNut!!!!!!

You just keep on composing, ya hear?

[TahitiNut]

72. Anything for you, m'luv!

[unblock]

9. in cheney's case, 71 years and counting....

[NV Whino]

10. Obviously these people didn't check my sock drawer

I swear the disintegrate within three weeks.

[Kablooie]

11. I'll have to start using more paper towels and banana peels.

[harmonicon]

18. I think you'll find that, while less absorbent, the banana peels will provide more comedic moments.

[Kablooie]

25. You are right but the more comedic moments, the fewer friends I will have.

[mopinko]

12. people mostly don't know that you can put paper products in your compost.

it is actually a very good compost ingredient. my children, for instance....

[harmonicon]

14. I expected something much more morbid from the thread title. (nt)

[craigmatic]

38. Me too.

[etherealtruth]

51. I saw it this morning and did not click on it ...

... for exactly that reason!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. My dear babylonsister!

I thought you meant people!

[REP]

17. I think mopinko might have too...

[mmonk]

19. It's taken me around 15 years.

[BillyJack]

20. I just put all my trash out on Tuesday morning and it's all gone before noon!

Why should I care about this "decompose list"?

[Odin2005]

56. And that pretty much sums up the problem.

People think food magically shows up in the supermarket and think garbage disappears when the garbage truck takes it away.

I grew up in a rural area, so I know where my food comes from. I've run into city folks who think chocolate milk comes from brown cows!

[pasto76]

21. 2 weeks ago, I was sifting through part of a landfill for the National Guard

on an evidence search re: an alleged murder. Those of us who have been in iraq, especially during the early years, have smelled much worse.

seriously, 85-90% of the material we looked through was recyclable. garbage is one thing, but the enormous volumes of plastic tarps or sheets, the glass, wood, cardboard. It was a little crazy. Recycling should be mandatory everywhere.

fyi, the area of the landfill we targeted was 306,000 cubic yards. That was 2-2.5 days worth of material they receive. 2,300 truckloads of trash a day. That was only for two metro counties.

Re-use, reduce, re-purpose, recycle!

[babylonsister]

24. Re-purpose; hadn't heard that, but love it! Yes, we're a wasteful nation

w/o a clue how we're making problems worse.

Not everyone, but for the most part.

[jwirr]

27. Back when landfills were just dumps I remember going with my father to find bicycle parts to fix

the neighborhood bikes. There was so many good things in those dumps - jewelry, books, toys, nic-nacs, tools, canning jars, etc. We considered them treasure hunts.

[Art_from_Ark]

37. In this part of Japan, we sort just about everything

Food and drink cans are put out for recycling twice a month, as are PETE bottles, glass bottles, old newspapers/magazines,cardboard boxes, and old clothes. Stuff that can't be burned or recycled is also put out twice a month. Burnable garbage is collected twice a week, and is incinerated in a facility that generates electricity. Stuff that is too big to put out by the collection site is collected by appointment, and there are trucks that come to the neighborhood to collect junked electronic equipment, some of which contains metals that can be recovered at a new facility that has been set up in an old mine.

[Lucinda]

46. Sounds really efficient!

I wish I had those options where I live!

[Odin2005]

57. But recycling is COMMUNISM!!!

I have a God-given right to be wasteful!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. one day we may be digging up the landfills for resources?

[joshcryer]

32. A key point in KSR's Mars Trilogy books.

And probably true.

Shame we're building neighborhoods on old landfills.

[Historic NY]

29. No wonder that damn orange is still there....

none of my local critters were interested in it either.

[James48]

33. How about a body? How long does that take?

Just curious.

[justiceischeap]

35. 50-365 days

down to bone. According to this article anyway.

[DearHeart]

36. You should read a book called "Stiff"

This book is pretty gross, but extremely interesting!

[link:http://www.amazon.com/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0393324826/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338003985&sr=1-1|

[KansDem]

75. There are a few "body farms" in the US researching that question

Facilities in the United States

[edit]University of Tennessee at Knoxville

The original "Body Farm" is the University of Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility located a few miles downtown from Alcoa Highway in Knoxville, Tennessee, behind the University of Tennessee Medical Center. It was first started in late 1981 by anthropologist Dr. William M. Bass as a facility for study of the decomposition of human remains. Dr. Bass became head of the university's anthropology department in 1971, and as official state forensic anthropologist for Tennessee he was frequently consulted in police cases involving decomposed human remains. Since no facilities existed that specifically studied decomposition, in 1981 he opened the department's first body farm.[1]

It consists of a 2.5-acre (10,000 m2) wooded plot, surrounded by a razor wire fence. At any one time there will be a number of bodies placed in different settings throughout the facility and left to decompose. The bodies are exposed in a number of ways in order to provide insights into decomposition under varying conditions. Detailed observations and records of the decomposition process are kept, including the sequence and speed of decomposition and the effects of insect activity.

Over 100 bodies are donated to the facility every year. Some individuals pre-register before their death, and others are donated by their families or by a medical examiner. 60% of donations are made by family members of individuals who were not pre-registered with the facility. Over 1300 people have chosen to pre-register themselves.[2] Perhaps the most famous person to donate his body for study was the anthropologist Grover Krantz, as described by his colleague David Hunt at the Smithsonian.[3]

The University of Tennessee Body Farm is also used in the training of law enforcement officers in scene-of-crime skills and techniques.[4]

The facility was humorously referred to in the 2009 movie The Blind Side, when Michael Oher's tutor Miss Sue successfully scared him away from choosing to go to the University of Tennessee by telling him that the school has an "excellent science department" which stores dead bodies in a lab "right under the football field." The location is actually near the school's Medical Center.

--more--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm

[goclark]

34. Thanks for the information

In California we have been using cloth bags for a while now.

It's working pretty well.

[eppur_se_muova]

39. **ASSUMING** they are in a place where some air can get to them ...

if they are buried in deep landfills, increase all these numbers. I've seen 50 year old newspapers dug up that were still readable, because they had been smothered with so much other stuff that no air could reach them.

As for stuff in the cold, dark depths of the ocean ... well ...

Alvin was so intact that lunches left on board were soggy but edible. This incident led to a more comprehensive understanding that near-freezing temperatures and the lack of decaying bacteria or fungi at increased depths prevented biological decay. Researchers found a cheese sandwich which exhibited no visible signs of decomposition, and was in fact eaten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSV_Alvin#Sinking

Wonder how long that monofilament line and "ghost nets" will be killing turtles ... fish ... porpoises ... seals ... seagulls ...

[Mimosa]

40. I knew this at age 13 (in the 60s) and decided no babies

I was aware of the stress on the planet when I was a kid. I thoughtfully chose to not bear children.

Now nobody cares about me when I get old and helpless. I sacrificed my having even 1 kid to love me. For the good of humanity. But there is no payback for the likes of me.

Many have done the same. No kids.

[magical thyme]

42. same here

Not only no payback, but we are kind of the scourge of society. The way I'm treated, I'm not sure I'll survive long enough to collect the social security I've earned...

[intaglio]

41. I did hear that sheet music is a problem

They opened Beethoven's tomb recently and he was still tearing up his compositions

[magical thyme]

43. I have to question some of this data

First, no apple core is going to last 2 months at my place. In my compost heap it will disappear faster than that. If it's on top of the heap, it will get eaten by somebody long before that. Possibly my plump scavenger dog who is always sure he is starving, but if not him somebody.

Second, except in the dead of winter, every couple weeks when I'm walking my dogs I take along a bag and pick up discarded cans. In the spring, after a couple months buried under the snow, the cans are already rusting away. So I find it hard to believe they last 200 years.

Third, my $%*&($! neighbor apparently was curious about where I buried my elderly horse this past February. I found a cigarette butt dropped on the path to my manure pile/compost heap 2 weeks later, where he apparently was trying to get a better view. That butt has long since disappeared.

Fortunately, recycling is mandatory in my neck of the woods, because I do believe that plastic lasts for freaking ever.

Reduce. Re-use. Recycle. In that order.

[slackmaster]

47. I know of a man who has been doing it with alacrity for more than 185 years

[Hubert Flottz]

48. "Diapers 500 years, " so you know what that means...

Dave Vitter's crap, will be polluting the planet for a loooong time.

[GoneOffShore]

49. Thank you.

Now up on my Facebook page.

[Scurrilous]

58. K & R

[Swede Atlanta]

62. We are killing our planet.......

I'm glad I'm old enough that the worst of this will happen after I'm dust but good grief. When I walk my dogs in the neighborhood I take a large bag with me (same one for multiple walks) and routinely fill it with styrofoam and plastic cups from fast food restaurants, glass and plastic bottles and all other manner of recyclable debris.

I drop it into the recycle bins where I live and feel a little less disheartened. But the next day when I go for the same walk on the same route I pick up another full bag of trash that others just leave.

If only I knew who these people were. They should be tried for high crimes and misdemeanors against Mother Earth and their fellow citizens and forced to clean trash from highways, waterways, etc. for 10 years. Afterwards they must account for every purchase they make and ensure that the debris from those purchases is recycled or appropriately disposed of. If not a severe shock is administered until they comply. Just kidding but you get the idea.

[HarveyDarkey]

64. Oh good

I thought I might need to help you dispose of a body.

[enki23]

65. While I'm in general ideological agreement... there's another angle here.

How long it takes something carbonaceous to decompose and its contribution to the greenhouse effect are almost exactly opposite conditions. While the idea of big pits full of slowly-decomposing disposable diapers isn't my favorite by any stretch, in terms of greenhouse contributions, it would be a carbon sink. An inconsequential carbon sink, probably, but a carbon sink all the same.

[jp11]

67. You can compost lots of your own trash rather than mix it with crap that will sit for years.

http://www.plantea.com/compost.htm